Sorry to keep you waiting G. Let's see what I can help you with.
Before we begin, let's be honest and up front here. No one here, myself included, is a canna med professional. We're more citizen scientist and holistic-in-training than anything else. What we share is a joint effort by the community, in a constant state of refinement. As Cajun mentioned in that post you shared, we're all learning as we go. Anyone who professes otherwise in this field should be looked at with caution. Cannabis is too new to all of us as a healing modality.
But there are some patterns emerging, and that we can work from.
Greetings from the UK.
I have been reading many of your posts with interest, as I am currently helping to care for my father-in-law, who has a neuroendocrine tumour in his lung with mets to liver and lymph nodes. This is my first post on the forum, so I am not sure if this is the right place to post up some of my queries regarding methods of delivery, bio-availability, and THC/CBD profiles but I'll give it a go. If I am in the wrong place, I'd appreciate it if you can point me in the right direction!
1.) Liposomal Encapsulation
Firstly, I have a quick question about bioavailability. Obviously we want to make sure that we are getting as many cannabinoids into the system without being quickly metabolised quickly by the liver. I have been reading up on liposomal encapsulation, and came across a method on the kitty smiles badkat cannapharm site. I have been making caps and suppositories following that guide. Here's the link
BadKat's CannaPharm - Medical Cannabis Oil
From comparing the badkats method to the guide to liposomal encapsulation posted on this thread, I see some differences between the amount of heating applied to the lecithin, CCO and carrier oil. There is also some difference in your methods between either freezing or refridgerating the mixture. Just wondered if you have any thoughts on this as to which method has the most merit?
I've looked over BadKat's posts, and I see the similarities, and the very basic differences. We don't freeze, we refrigerate. Same results, faster recovery time to get to room temp if you don't freeze. We use liquid sunflower lecithin, for additional nutritional benefits. Our biobomb formulations were developed to keep additions at a minimum, but still keep cannabinoid counts close to where we wanted them.
She recommends coconut oil, and if you're treating liver disease, or your intent is recreational, we also recommend this choice. Medium-chained fatty acids are a fast-track to the liver. If you're treating disease with coconut oil, methods of competitive inhibition become even more important.
Olive oil is our preferred choice for most medicinal purposes. Long-chained fatty acids avoid the First-Pass by being absorbed into the lymphatic system. More time gained for seeking out cells in need of signal modification. Olive oil will also hold a higher concentration of cannabinoids in suspension than coconut oil, and it's also an important nutrient, as is coconut oil.
2.) Vaping for lung cancer?
I am also interested in knowing more about whether vaping a CCO tincture would be effective for a lung cancer patient and whether any potential benefits also come with potential harms?
Vaping is recommended as part of the treatment for lung cancer. There are no dangers that I've heard of to be concerned with, excepting any lung sensitivity the patient may have, as in vaping making the patient cough uncontrollably. In such a case vaping would be contraindicated.
3.) Different types of Carrier oils
Another issue that I am interested in trying to shed some light on is which carrier oils work best. I have read that Medium chain fatty acids are good for the liver whereas longer chain fatty acids go to the lymphatic system. Is this correct in your understanding?
Already answered above.
4.) The great suppository debate
Methods of administration is another topic I'd like to feel clearer about. I have read very conflicting arguments regarding suppostories with one side arguing that it dramatically increases bio-availability and others claiming that the cannabinoids are unable to be absorbed into the blood stream in this way. Just wondered if you'd come across any convincing studies/arguments either way.
The studies that would answer this question are being held up by our federal govenment's stubborn refusal to remove cannabis from the schedule. This is one of those areas that comes steeped in controversy. What we can share here is that we've had members use suppositories as the major pathway of administration and they've successfully gotten their cancer into remission. Cajun did it twice, after having the cancer return when he neglected his own regimen. After adjusting his awareness and returning to the regimen he once again gained the upper hand.
Suppositories with canna meds are both embraced and vilified by practicing physicians, and one-by-one they've been forced to admit that we may not understand the mechanisms at play, but there are a growing number of patients using suppositories successfully. They allow you to get the cannabinoid numbers up higher without the concerns of uncomfortable euphoria.
I actually like the multi-faceted approach you've chosen. I'm a big fan of diversity in administration. Come in from multiple directions.
5.) THC/CBD percentages
Finally I have a question about THC and CBD percentage and content. We have a high THC oil made from a lemon haze strain with 24%THC and we have a 1:1 THC/CBD made from a critical mass strain with about 14% CBD. From my reading I understand that a strain with over 20% THC is considered to be high yet I also keep reading that the CCO should have 80% THC to be effective. Am I getting confused here between the strength of the strain and the strength of the CCO? What I mean is, will a strain with over 20%THC make a CCO with a higher THC profile or will the percentage of the THC in the strain be the same as the percentage in the CCO? Be good to know if I have the right amount of THC otherwise I will have to source more.
When you're talking about the THC or CBD values of a plant you're speaking about the amount of cannabinoids you'd find in a gram of dried material, typically flowers. When you make a concentrated oil you're talking about the concentrated number of cannabinoids in a gram of that oil. You'll find a lot more cannabinoids per gram in CCO than you will in dried flowers.
It's all a matter of concentrations. In a gram of CCO with 80% THC you'll have 800 mg of THC. A gram of flowers with 20% THC will contain 200 mg of THC.
Those patterns I spoke of earlier, one of them is to treat lung cancer with a 4:1 THC:CBD ratio. Cajun once shared with us that lung cancer was one of those that had responded positively to suppository administration.
6.) Ultrasonic cleaners?
I have also read that an ultrasonic cleaner can be used to aid in liposomal encapsulation. Just wondered if anybody had any thoughts on whether this works, and would be able to explain the science behind using an ultrasonic cleaner.
The ultrasonic cleaner is a personal call. Cajun once told me not to be concerned with it, but then right before he dropped out of sight he insinuated it would be of value.
My personal opinion is that it's another piece of equipment that isn't as necessary as you'd like to think. Cannabinoid therapies are very basic things, and the less you can get away with adding the better. I read a study once by a citizen scientist who used an ultrasonic for the Vit C process that made it so famous, and when he had the results tested there were no liposomes created. Save your money.
I think that's it for now! I appreciate that this is a long list but anything you can do to shed some light on my questions would be really appreciated. I have kind of taken on responsibility for administering the oil for my father-in-law and I don't want to f*** this up.
Thanks for reading
G
You've come to us well-prepared. I like your chances of not f***ing this up.
Sorry to add another post to the thread before getting a response back on my first one, but I'd also like some advice on dose management if possible.
No need to worry about this. We're here to help you find answers.
From what I have read, we should be aiming to build up to a gram a day within 60 days. We are just starting our 4th week of treatment with my father-in-law and we have him up to between 0.6-0.7g a day. We are hoping to get up to the 1 gram mark this week. Below is a breakdown of his current dosing regime; just wondering if Sue or anyone else on here has the time to have a quick look and give me some feedback.
The gram-a-day protocol was developed before we had the hard data coming in from practicing clinics and dispensaries. Turns out many cancers respond positively to a much lower dose, more realistically around the 300mg mark.
Morning (after breakfast) oral ingestion of 50mg capsule of high THC oil (2:1 ratio) mixed with lecithin and coconut oil
Mid morning (after bath or shower ) suppository of 250mg high THC oil mixed with lecithin and coco butter
Afternoon oral ingestion of 200mg capsule (1:1 THC/CBD)
After dinner: oral ingestion of 200mg capsule (1:1 THC/CBD)
We also have some high CBD oil (2:1) ratio that I haven't really worked in to his programme yet (I've been told that this may be useful for tacking but don't have any hard info myself)
My father-in-law is able to handle the 50mg high THC caps pretty easy now. I think they come from a lemon haze strain which has a mix of indica and sativa; anyways, they seem to pep him up when he takes then. The 1:1 200mg really hits him hard though (dizziness, nausea, lack of balance) and when I once tried a 200mg high THC cap, he was high as a kite for a few hours.
I am just thinking about the best ways to increase the dosage up to a gram a day. For example, should I give him another strong THC dose as a suppository, or add in a few smaller 50MG caps in his routine. I am also not sure about how best to use the high CBD oil effectively.
You control euphoria by either splitting the THC dose into smaller volumes and delivering it through multiple doses throughout the day by whatever method you choose, or by balancing the THC dose with higher doses of CBD. You can also eliminate euphoria by using suppositories. In your father-in-law's case I'd recommend multiple doses - I'd be shooting for 4-5 daily doses - and suppositories. You're mixed bag approach is probably the smartest way to come at this.
You'd be wise to stick to the maximum 50 mg THC dose by mouth and get the rest of the dose in by suppository. You're already at a pretty high level. I'd feel comfortable staying at this dose until you have some test results that'll give you some idea of the efficacy of the regimen.
There's an interesting practice picking up speed to deliver the THC doses and the CBD doses at seperate times, at least two hours apart from each other. In this way there been some reduction in dose volumes with no loss in effectiveness. It's worth considering. I have no hard data on the effectiveness of this method, but I have absolute faith in Aunt Zelda's organization, the chief proponent of this dosing method.
Ultimately, I am searching for the holy grail of maximum bio-availability so my thinking is to use a combination of oral/sublingual/recta routes so I cover all bases. The cancer is a neuroendocrine tumour in his lung with mets to lymph nodes and liver; I don't have much knowledge about the relationship between different types of cancer and different CCO dosing
guidelines, so any help in this department would also be super helpful.
Thank you for taking the time to read.
Best wishes to you all
G x
Yeah.... the magic bullet. Ah, that it was that easy, eh? We've developed this wonderfully holistic approach of encouraging you to create a healthier Endocannabinoid system, creating an inner atmospher saturated with joy, and finding ways to get the greatest potential out of our harvests when we process them into medications.
Along that vein, I encourage you to check out our work on
Fresh Harvest infused Oil. It's an olive oil infusion that has the potential to rival CCO in medicinal quality. Just another pathway to the goal of re-establishing homeostasis.
Creating CCO destroys the terpenes, there's no way around that. It's one of many points where I had problems with BadKat. We don't create liposomal encapsulation, and we don't preserve terpenes with traditionally produced CCO. The FHO holds onto more terpenes and flavonoids, as well as incorporating chlorophyll into the formula. With FHO we find a deeper synergistic effect on the body. It's difficult to explain, but it's provocative enough that we've become obsessed with refining the process, finding ways to make it as easy to produce as possible.
Looking back I just caught that he has mets to the liver. That would call for the coconut oil, at least until the liver concerns are put to rest. Hmmmm..... He'd benefit from both carrier oils, but the liver feels like the one that would benefit from the suppositories. Insert deeply, and work up the dose slowly to give him time to build tolerances.
The standard method of dosing is to start sub-therapeutically, build up to 4-5 doses a day and increase the cannabinoid load in the doses until the patient feels unable to adjust comfortably. Then you drop back one step and stay there until you have good reason to either increase or decrease the dose. Consider 2 suppository doses made with coconut oil as the carrier (intended for the liver tumor cells, so inserted deeply) and the rest of the daily dose orally, either sublingual or ingested, no more than 50 mg of THC each.
As soon as the liver stabilized I'd switch to olive oil as the carrier oil.
I'd give consideration to the BioBomb formulations. Less oil used to greater effect. The ones you're producing now are very close to what we've created, so no pressure there. Cannabinoids heal. There are many ways to make that healing commence.
Whew! I hope I got all of that right.
If there are any mistakes we can sort them out.
I harbor a deep hope that this dream of his will pull him back our way, but time will tell. In the meantime, he assured himself before wandering off that the thread had a dedicated core of supporters. 
Double post." 