A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer

entelechy said:
Hi,

While doing my research on the web, I came across claims that for skin cancer topical application, it is recommended
to use higher percentage of CBD then THC, and the opposite for internal use. Also there was a recommendation
to apply the CBD reach and the THC reach oils separately (in time), because both compete on some common receptors.
I visited the web site of Aunt Zelda, where they claim they produce their CCO oil using organic Ethanol, but some
how they manage not to destroy the Terpenes of the plant, which I believe are temperature sensitive. Does these claims
make sense? Please comment.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in knowing where you found the information on CBD in topicals for skin cancer. My understanding was that THCa is preferred in topicals to CBD because CBD doesn't perform well as a topical application and THCa will fill many of the functions with inflammation that CBD would. For skin cancer the easiest solution is direct application of CCO with a band aid to protect it, replaced every few days with fresh.

Aunt Zelda's has been insistent from the beginning that their patients are able to use lower doses of the major cannabinoids if dosed separately, with a minimum two hours between. Considering that they've been forerunners in patient data collection and analysis I believe what they're finding. What I don't know is how significantly smaller those doses are, and if it really matters.

It's my understanding that CBD and THC do not, in fact, compete for the same receptors. CBD uses completely different receptors, but it does effect the performance of THC, and it may be in this respect that they're seeing a benefit. Again, how significant? Is it enough to be making the effort? Obviously they believe so.

There are many processes in place in the professional extractions arena that can create oils with terpenes intact. I personally couldn't speak with any authority about any of them, but someone else may chime in. Aunt Zelda's is one of the tops in their field, staffed by some of the most brilliant minds working in canna meds today. I have nothing but respect for everything they say EXCEPTING their open bias against the use of suppositories. I hold to the belief that properly produced suppositories will be effective in the treatment of disease.

Pardon my manners entelechy. I tend to walk through the door working. Lol! :welcome: to the thread. :hugs: Anything else we can help you with?
 
entelechy said:
Thanks for your prompt reply SweetSue, here is the link for the claim I mentioned:
Thc oil for topical conditions - Page 3 - MNS Forums
see post # 26 for the THC/CBD for skin cancer.
Click to expand...

Interesting postings. First thing I noticed was the date, 2011. We've learned a lot about cannabinoids and cannabinoid therapies since then, and one of the things we've learned is that CBD doesn't perform well as a topical application. The top topical producers have chosen a formula along the lines of 60% THC, 40% THCa and a touch of CBD to potentiate the THC. This formula, with high concentrations of THC, kills cancer. This information was from a topicals board I watched within recent months.

If Dr. Melamede had proven that CBD could kill skin cancer it would be all over the topicals world, but it's not. That's worth considering. If I were treating skin cancer it'd be pure CCO I'd be reaching for, instead of taking a chance on the strength and efficacy of a topical I didn't produce myself. If I produced my own topical to treat skin cancer it'd be the highest THC value I could muster.
 
Thanks for the information.
Your response SweetSue brings some questions:

1. I understand how to get THC CCO, but regarding THCa, I understand it has to come from
infusion product and then it need to be mixed with the THC CCO, Is it right?
then how to do the mixing? Any detailed information on this subject will be beyond appreciation.....
2. Would you do the THCa infusion yourself? Then how?
3. From what you say I understand you would not bother too much to add the THCa to the application.
Is it right?
3. Could you please provide a link to this topical board you mention in your post, so that I can educate
myself as well.

Regards.........
 
entelechy said:
Thanks for the information.
Your response SweetSue brings some questions:

1. I understand how to get THC CCO, but regarding THCa, I understand it has to come from
infusion product and then it need to be mixed with the THC CCO, Is it right?
then how to do the mixing? Any detailed information on this subject will be beyond appreciation.....
2. Would you do the THCa infusion yourself? Then how?
3. From what you say I understand you would not bother too much to add the THCa to the application.
Is it right?
3. Could you please provide a link to this topical board you mention in your post, so that I can educate
myself as well.

Regards.........
Click to expand...

I have to say I absolutely adore the polite way you phrase your questions. :hugs:

The topicals board was part of a cannabis conference at Green Flower Media. In order to get access to it you'd either have to become a member of their site, which is a subscribed service, or possibly purchase the conference from them, which is around $100. I have a membership that gets me access to most of what they offer.

Their site is highly recommended. They have a open-access wealth of current information that's vetted and trustworthy.

1. When making CCO the oil that's left when you purge the solvent is filled with acid cannabinoids. There's no THC until you decarboxylate. So it's possible to make an oil that's not decarbed and combine it with an oil that has been decarbed. Using that oil mix you'd have to be very careful in making the infusion that would be used for the topical so as not to overheat and cause the THCa to convert.

The greatest concern is that THCa will aggressively convert to THC, unless refrigerated. You can be sure most people using the topicals aren't keeping them refrigerated, so the unstable THCa is likely becoming mostly THC. At least this is how it plays out in my mind.

2. This suggests that for the home alchemist a potent THC topical is the way to go. I'd include a touch of CBD to potentiate that THC. In combination CBD helps THC work more efficiently and also extends the therapeutic window for the THC.

Our greatest challenge with homemade topicals is not knowing for certain what's actually in there. Unless it's tested you have no way of knowing.

3. Personally, I no longer attempt to get THCa into topicals. I don't ever have that much CCO on hand or the plant material in sufficient quantity to make more. Just about everything except skin cancer responds marvelously to a high THC topical. I've personally not come up against skin cancer, but those I know of used direct application of CCO.

I do, however, have a blog post of a THCa extraction that may be of interest to you.

THCa Extract
 
SweetSue said:
I have to say I absolutely adore the polite way you phrase your questions. :hugs:

The topicals board was part of a cannabis conference at Green Flower Media. In order to get access to it you'd either have to become a member of their site, which is a subscribed service, or possibly purchase the conference from them, which is around $100. I have a membership that gets me access to most of what they offer.

Their site is highly recommended. They have a open-access wealth of current information that's vetted and trustworthy.

1. When making CCO the oil that's left when you purge the solvent is filled with acid cannabinoids. There's no THC until you decarboxylate. So it's possible to make an oil that's not decarbed and combine it with an oil that has been decarbed. Using that oil mix you'd have to be very careful in making the infusion that would be used for the topical so as not to overheat and cause the THCa to convert.

The greatest concern is that THCa will aggressively convert to THC, unless refrigerated. You can be sure most people using the topicals aren't keeping them refrigerated, so the unstable THCa is likely becoming mostly THC. At least this is how it plays out in my mind.

2. This suggests that for the home alchemist a potent THC topical is the way to go. I'd include a touch of CBD to potentiate that THC. In combination CBD helps THC work more efficiently and also extends the therapeutic window for the THC.

Our greatest challenge with homemade topicals is not knowing for certain what's actually in there. Unless it's tested you have no way of knowing.

3. Personally, I no longer attempt to get THCa into topicals. I don't ever have that much CCO on hand or the plant material in sufficient quantity to make more. Just about everything except skin cancer responds marvelously to a high THC topical. I've personally not come up against skin cancer, but those I know of used direct application of CCO.

I do, however, have a blog post of a THCa extraction that may be of interest to you.

THCa Extract
Click to expand...

Great explanation Sweet Sue!

One thing you stated didnt soak in... it bounced around against the inside of my thinkermajiggy! You said everything "but" skin cancer responds marvelously to high THC topical. I've found differently. I have two people whose skin cancers asses were kicked by indica hybrids with little CBD in them. My good friend has also had great successes with people with skin cancers, diabetic ulcers, etc. He uses Silver Kush almost exclusively and treats all with infused coconut oil.

That said, I don't doubt an oil with respectable CBD level would be even more effective.
 
Randoobula said:
Great explanation Sweet Sue!

One thing you stated didnt soak in... it bounced around against the inside of my thinkermajiggy! You said everything "but" skin cancer responds marvelously to high THC topical. I've found differently. I have two people whose skin cancers asses were kicked by indica hybrids with little CBD in them. My good friend has also had great successes with people with skin cancers, diabetic ulcers, etc. He uses Silver Kush almost exclusively and treats all with infused coconut oil.

That said, I don't doubt an oil with respectable CBD level would be even more effective.
Click to expand...

I misspoke. What I intended to communicate was that I'd personally have no hesitation in using a high THC topical on anything but skin cancer. I was on my way back to edit that but you beat me to it. Lol!

I'm thrilled to hear you had success. Just what we hoped to have pop up. :battingeyelashes: Was this just oil, or topicals made with oils Randy? Thinking it over, I haven't yet had any real success with topicals or oils with psoriasis, but I believe this is just a formulation concern, and also may need to be treated more internally than externally.

I have an Industrial Plant growing, at long last, so I'll have the opportunity to make an oil high enough in CBD to experiment with. We might get enough of us experimenting to discover that CBD topicals are incredibly useful. Nothing would make me happier. :Love:
 
SweetSue said:
I misspoke. What I intended to communicate was that I'd personally have no hesitation in using a high THC topical on anything but skin cancer. I was on my way back to edit that but you beat me to it. Lol!

I'm thrilled to hear you had success. Just what we hoped to have pop up. :battingeyelashes: Was this just oil, or topicals made with oils Randy? Thinking it over, I haven't yet had any real success with topicals or oils with psoriasis, but I believe this is just a formulation concern, and also may need to be treated more internally than externally.

I have an Industrial Plant growing, at long last, so I'll have the opportunity to make an oil high enough in CBD to experiment with. We might get enough of us experimenting to discover that CBD topicals are incredibly useful. Nothing would make me happier. :Love:
Click to expand...

The successes I've been a part of were high THC/ low CBD indica hybrid Feco with about 30% by volume coconut oil as carrier. It was applied liberally, plain coconut oil saturated into bandaid or gauze to keep it from absorbing the FECO, and covered. More oil and fresh bandaid/gauze then applied every 3 days or so.

My friends patients applied it the same, but rather than feco in a carrier, it was decarbed bud, extracted in coconut oil. He makes large batches because he gives tubs of it away to anybody and everybody! His ratio is 4 oz decarbed bud to a 54 oz unrefined cold pressed coconut oil.

I make infused coconut as well in smaller amounts at a ratio of 1/3 oz decarbed bud to 1 cup coconut oil. Great in coffee and has been effective for skin issues as well.

I have the terpenes... just waiting on the 99% pure crystalline CBD, and I'll be bringing terpene profiles back to the plants natural profile and adding CBD to my high THC oils.

Once lost terpene profile is replaced in heat extracted FECO, I'll add small amounts of the terpenes desirable to address given symptom sets.

The CBD levels will be brought up to 1:1, 2:1, etc. CBD to THC ratios, also dependent upon what is being treated.

I'm excited! Much self-experimentation to do! I will be sending out samples with a control sample of the unformulated oils, to some experienced users to test.

I'm also planning to formulate some MCT infused CBD oils with added terpenes and small amounts of Feco to treat conditions such as fibromyalgia that seem to respond best to CBD. This will allow me to treat people with high sensitivity to THC while still benefiting from its symbiotic relationship with the cannabinoids and terps.
 
Randoobula said:
The successes I've been a part of were high THC/ low CBD indica hybrid Feco with about 30% by volume coconut oil as carrier. It was applied liberally, plain coconut oil saturated into bandaid or gauze to keep it from absorbing the FECO, and covered. More oil and fresh bandaid/gauze then applied every 3 days or so.

My friends patients applied it the same, but rather than feco in a carrier, it was decarbed bud, extracted in coconut oil. He makes large batches because he gives tubs of it away to anybody and everybody! His ratio is 4 oz decarbed bud to a 54 oz unrefined cold pressed coconut oil.

I make infused coconut as well in smaller amounts at a ratio of 1/3 oz decarbed bud to 1 cup coconut oil. Great in coffee and has been effective for skin issues as well.

I have the terpenes... just waiting on the 99% pure crystalline CBD, and I'll be bringing terpene profiles back to the plants natural profile and adding CBD to my high THC oils.

Once lost terpene profile is replaced in heat extracted FECO, I'll add small amounts of the terpenes desirable to address given symptom sets.

The CBD levels will be brought up to 1:1, 2:1, etc. CBD to THC ratios, also dependent upon what is being treated.

I'm excited! Much self-experimentation to do! I will be sending out samples with a control sample of the unformulated oils, to some experienced users to test.

I'm also planning to formulate some MCT infused CBD oils with added terpenes and small amounts of Feco to treat conditions such as fibromyalgia that seem to respond best to CBD. This will allow me to treat people with high sensitivity to THC while still benefiting from its symbiotic relationship with the cannabinoids and terps.
Click to expand...

Wow Randy! Impressed I am. :hugs:

That was a lot of valuable information. I'll take notes in the morning. I'm sitting here falling asleep. Lol! Time to walk away from the iPad.

Goodnight :Love:
 
Hi.

SweeiSue, When you say " I'd personally have no hesitation in using a high THC topical on anything but skin cancer."
What exactly do you mean ?
Thanks for the helpful response........
 
SweetSue said:
Interesting postings. First thing I noticed was the date, 2011. We've learned a lot about cannabinoids and cannabinoid therapies since then, and one of the things we've learned is that CBD doesn't perform well as a topical application. The top topical producers have chosen a formula along the lines of 60% THC, 40% THCa and a touch of CBD to potentiate the THC. This formula, with high concentrations of THC, kills cancer. This information was from a topicals board I watched within recent months.

If Dr. Melamede had proven that CBD could kill skin cancer it would be all over the topicals world, but it's not. That's worth considering. If I were treating skin cancer it'd be pure CCO I'd be reaching for, instead of taking a chance on the strength and efficacy of a topical I didn't produce myself. If I produced my own topical to treat skin cancer it'd be the highest THC value I could muster.
Click to expand...

I know Cajun has treated Skin Melanomas with CCO straight on the growth. Kills it within a couple weeks I think. I would have to g back and check if that is the right time frame.:circle-of-love::peace:
 
Dave Groomer said:
I know Cajun has treated Skin Melanomas with CCO straight on the growth. Kills it within a couple weeks I think. I would have to g back and check if that is the right time frame.:circle-of-love::peace:
Click to expand...

I believe it took him 28 days, two days short of his original projection. I remember that delightful celebratory moment like it was yesterday. :battingeyelashes: :green_heart:
 
Hi,
Until I extract my own oil, I want to buy some extracts from Aunt Zelda's. I want to use it as topical (for skin cancer) first, which means
high concentration THC.
This is the link to Zelda:
Extracts – Aunt Zelda's
Once you are there, you can press Lab results for detailed content.
The pricing is as follows:
Berry White Extract (Lab Results)
– 3g, 5g, and 10g Syringe THC $260/444/888
.

Sour Larry Extract (Lab Results)
– 3g, 5g, and 10g Syringe THC $218/364/728
.

Gorilla Glue(B2) Extract (Lab Results)
– 3g Syringe THC $213

Please advice me which oil and quantity will best fit my needs.

Warm Regards...............
 
entelechy said:
Hi,
Until I extract my own oil, I want to buy some extracts from Aunt Zelda's. I want to use it as topical (for skin cancer) first, which means
high concentration THC.
This is the link to Zelda:
Extracts – Aunt Zelda's
Once you are there, you can press Lab results for detailed content.
The pricing is as follows:
Berry White Extract (Lab Results)
– 3g, 5g, and 10g Syringe THC $260/444/888
.

Sour Larry Extract (Lab Results)
– 3g, 5g, and 10g Syringe THC $218/364/728
.

Gorilla Glue(B2) Extract (Lab Results)
– 3g Syringe THC $213

Please advice me which oil and quantity will best fit my needs.

Warm Regards...............
Click to expand...

Looking the list and labs over, the one that caught my eye was the Berry White. It's the highest in beta-Caryophyllen, which will activate the CB2 receptors, the most prolific in the skin, and it also has a good amount of alpha-Humulene, which has anti-tumoral benefits.

The amount you'd purchase would really be determined by the level of skin compromised. Without knowing how much area would be treated that would be impossible to guess. A little CCO goes a long way, but you're looking at a month of treatment, and changing the band aid every three days you'd be doing 10 applications. If all you're looking at treating is a small patch I'd think 5 grams would get you through. I'd hate to see you get 3 grams and run short.
 
Hi.
I would appreciate some guidance regarding the application. I understand that I need to
mix the CCO with probably coconut oil, then the question is in what ratio?
I am dealing here with two open ulcers, one is 2 inch and the other one is
3 inch in diameter. That may require at least 10 grams of CCO. If I run out
of oil, I can order more.
Also, should I keep the CCO refrigerated?
Any advice is well appreciated.

Regards.......
 
entelechy said:
Hi.
I would appreciate some guidance regarding the application. I understand that I need to
mix the CCO with probably coconut oil, then the question is in what ratio?
I am dealing here with two open ulcers, one is 2 inch and the other one is
3 inch in diameter. That may require at least 10 grams of CCO. If I run out
of oil, I can order more.
Also, should I keep the CCO refrigerated?
Any advice is well appreciated.

Regards.......
Click to expand...

Yes, refrigerate for storage. You could probably get away with keeping it someplace dark and cool, but that says fridge, doesn't it? Lol!

No need to dilute it. Here's a repost of CCOilers's instructions on administration.

CCOiler said:
Welcome entelechy, CCO is the best thing to put on your ulcers and making it yourself is the best way to get it. you want to be generous when putting it on your ulcers. First off, heat up the CCO with a hair dryer so you don't tear the skin, next put on a water tight bandaid, leave it on for 3-4 days and change the bandaid while putting on more CCO. After a few bandaid changes you will think that your ulcers are getting worse but they are not, it is the CCO pulling all of the bad stuff to the surface to kill the cancer cells. Stay with it until the ulcers are completely gone and then go beyond that just to make sure the ulcers are gone.

Find a 2:1 thc:cbd strain at the dispensary and make your own oil for the topical & for the Biobomb that you should put up the back door. (suppository)

Read the first couple of pages on this thread and make your own CCO How To Make Concentrated Cannabis Oil

Sue can point you to the Biobomb making thread.

:welcome::cco::smokin2::Love:
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

What do you think about Randoobula comments in post# 2008 where he talks about mixing the CCO with
a lot of coconut oil.
My concern is that since I have that big of ulcers, I will need tons of CCO to cover it.
Please comment.

Regards..........
 
Randoobula said:
The successes I've been a part of were high THC/ low CBD indica hybrid Feco with about 30% by volume coconut oil as carrier. It was applied liberally, plain coconut oil saturated into bandaid or gauze to keep it from absorbing the FECO, and covered. More oil and fresh bandaid/gauze then applied every 3 days or so.

My friends patients applied it the same, but rather than feco in a carrier, it was decarbed bud, extracted in coconut oil. He makes large batches because he gives tubs of it away to anybody and everybody! His ratio is 4 oz decarbed bud to a 54 oz unrefined cold pressed coconut oil.

I make infused coconut as well in smaller amounts at a ratio of 1/3 oz decarbed bud to 1 cup coconut oil. Great in coffee and has been effective for skin issues as well.

I have the terpenes... just waiting on the 99% pure crystalline CBD, and I'll be bringing terpene profiles back to the plants natural profile and adding CBD to my high THC oils.

Once lost terpene profile is replaced in heat extracted FECO, I'll add small amounts of the terpenes desirable to address given symptom sets.

The CBD levels will be brought up to 1:1, 2:1, etc. CBD to THC ratios, also dependent upon what is being treated.

I'm excited! Much self-experimentation to do! I will be sending out samples with a control sample of the unformulated oils, to some experienced users to test.

I'm also planning to formulate some MCT infused CBD oils with added terpenes and small amounts of Feco to treat conditions such as fibromyalgia that seem to respond best to CBD. This will allow me to treat people with high sensitivity to THC while still benefiting from its symbiotic relationship with the cannabinoids and terps.
Click to expand...

I had to search back to last september to find the acronym FECO - pasting it here so others don't have to look it up.
FECO (full-plant extract cannabis oil)
Click to expand...
 
entelechy said:
Hi,

What do you think about Randoobula comments in post# 2008 where he talks about mixing the CCO with
a lot of coconut oil.
My concern is that since I have that big of ulcers, I will need tons of CCO to cover it.
Please comment.

Regards..........
Click to expand...

I have great faith in the healing potential of a strong infused oil. My favorite recipe uses a ratio of 100 grams of dried buds to 500 ml of carrier oil, and as Randy stated, he's seen success in a number of different ratios.

I have great faith in the ability of straight CCO to do the job. Remember you'd be changing the dressing every 3-4 days.

Regardless of which application you choose, consider incorporating oral or anal doses as well to come at the cancer systemically.
 
Thanks for the response,
If I understand things properly, for internal use, I need to add CBD to what I ordered,
which is Berry White Extract, that is mostly THC.
So if this is the case, then I need to order the Zelda's CBD extract as well
Please comment..............
 
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