3rd Grow - Time For The Light Show

[B A R]

I know what you mean Kraize, I too rarely get sick but when I do I'm no good for anything. My teenaged daughter calls me the Big Baby because when I am she becomes the adult; making me soups, taking care of my every whimper, etc., ect. and this has been going on since she was about 10.
I hope you have enough strength to enjoy the wedding.

Now back to your issue; How long has that room been enduring these cold temps? If it's been a week or longer you might not have to do anything with the plants but raise the temps and extreme cold temps will kill seedlings & baby clones insto-presto.
Did the discoloration start before or after the temp drop?

 

[Kriaze]

Hey BAR, I know what you mean regarding the babying lol. The temps would have only been that way for one or two days but the LSD has been discoloured pretty much since she started growing, she always seemed a sickly plant. The other plants have had this odd off colour lower leaf or two but nothing too serious, they're just deteriorating over time. The middle of the leaves (I forget the name but I'll say 'veins' for now) are also darker than the rest of the leaf surface. I'll get the plants out of the tent tomorrow for pictures. In the meantime have a great day, I think a few whisky's may be in order to burn out this ailment All the best

 

[db003]

I hope you and your plants get better bro it sucks that some of them died

 

[Weaselcracker]

Have a great weekend Kriaze and I personally vote for late night ramblings, anytime. Thankfully cannabis plants are just plants and have short life spans so we get many chances to play doctor. It gives me a glimpse of how difficult it must be to be a real doctor. With only a few dozen variables, and maybe a half dozen main ones for us to control/screw up, you'd think it would be fairly easy to manage growing a plant. But instead it often seems overwhelmingly confusing. At least to me it does . Like BAR said, it's a process of elimination, starting with the usual suspects, PH and nutrients.

 

[Spitz]

Have a great weekend Kriaze and I personally vote for late night ramblings, anytime. Thankfully cannabis plants are just plants and have short life spans so we get many chances to play doctor. It gives me a glimpse of how difficult it must be to be a real doctor. With only a few dozen variables, and maybe a half dozen main ones for us to control/screw up, you'd think it would be fairly easy to manage growing a plant. But instead it often seems overwhelmingly confusing. At least to me it does . Like BAR said, it's a process of elimination, starting with the usual suspects, PH and nutrients.

Real Doctor? Lol... First thing that came to mind with this group is:

1) Give the patient water until they pee 20% of their body weight out
2) Follow that with half a dose of steroids
3) they should be ready for full steroids in a week or so
4) shave off all their hair too!
5) Check, that.. Only shave the hair that is blocking a tan

 

[Kriaze]

Hey everyone, what a great night that was Today I took the LSD and Par Nebula out of their tents to get some shots in sunlight. I didn't have my tripod close to hand and was still a bit wobbly from last night but I managed to get some shots that are reasonable enough for the purpose. Here they are

The LSD:

The Paradise Nebula:

Hopefully these will show the plants off to better effect for evaluation. In the meantime I'm searching through the premixed organic soils that are available online along with some fishmix and maybe some worm castings. I intend on potting one plant into this and seeing how they grow with minimal feeding in that medium. Has anyone any advice on whether Canna Bio-Terra, Plagron Allmix or the BioBizz soil would be best? I'm thinking if these soils are a no fuss way of growing they'll do for me until my own compost is mixed and tested on a run. I hope everyone is having a wonderful weekend, all the best

 

[Robert Celt]

Afternoon mate, glad you enjoyed your evening

I don't see any twisting of new growth but from the coloring, I am still leaning toward a Mg def/lockout or potassium def. Maybe some of the others here that use bottled feeds might have a better idea, definitely likely to have more experience than I LOL

 

[B A R]

I still suggest this.

After studying your last post and pics hard and long I think your having a Phosphorous deficiency but not a classic one. Rather than not having enough Phosphorous I think it's getting locked out.
Have your temps been extremely low during lights out (low 50's F)? This can cause Phosphorous lockout.

Are you adjusting your PH levels after adding nutes to your feed? Nutes can lower your PH levels; adjust after you've added nutes. Let's forget about run-off PH for a moment; That will change depending on the toxicity of the soil each time you feed. I know a lot of folks are going to frown upon what I'm about to say but this is what I've witnessed with my own two eyes in my own grows; Run-off PH is pretty much irrelevant unless it's extremely high or extremely low. The main thing is getting your feed in the neighborhood of 6.3 - 6.6 PH for soil. When the nutrients in your soil are balanced correctly the run-off won't be much different. Again, this isn't science, just what I've noticed in my own grows.

So let's start with the LSD since she's the worst and I noticed it's slightly starting on Bulk 1. Give her a slow but heavy flush of about 3x the pot's mass with 6.5 PH adjusted H2O to de-toxify the soil (I look at a flush as a restart button).

Let her completely dry out to the point of slightly wilting. This can take up to a week and 1/2 depending on how bad a lockout is.

Then hit her with a light feeding of one of the Phosphorous supplements listed below.

Copy & Paste from the "Cannabis Problem Solver Thread":

Phosphorus (P) Mobile Element and Macro Element

Benefit: Phosphorus does a lot of things for the plant. One of the most important parts of Phosphorus is: It aids in root growth and influences the vigour of the plant and is
one of the most important elements in flowering as well helps to germinate seedlings.
Phosphorus is an essential plant nutrient, and since it is needed in large amounts, it is classified as a macronutrient. Phosphorus is a MAJOR important nutrient in the plants reproductive stages. Without this element the plants will have a lot of problems blooming without proper levels of Phosphorus.

When your plants are deficient in phosphorus, this can overall reduce the size of your plants. Not enough causes slow growth and causes the plant to become weak, to little amount of Phosphorus causes slow growths in leaves that may or may not drop off. The edges all around the leaves or half of the leaves can be brownish and work its way inwards a bit causing the part of the leaves to curl up in the air a bit. Fan leaves will show dark greenish/purplish and yellowish tones along with a dullish blue colour to them. Sometimes the stems can be red, along with red petioles that can happen when having a Phosphorus deficiency. This isn't a sure sure sign of you having one though, but can be a sign. Some strains just show the red petioles and stems from its genes.
So pretty much the overall dark green colour with a purple, red, or blue tint to the fan leaves is a good sign of a Phosphorus deficiency. Having Cold weather (below 50F/10C) can make phosphorous absorption very troublesome for plants.
Many people get a Phosphorus deficiency confused with a fungus problem because the ends of the leaves look like a fungus problem, But the damage occurs at the end of the leaves. side of the leaves and has a glass like feeling to it as if it had a pH problem. Parts affected by a phosphorus deficiency are: Older Leaves, Whole plant, Petioles.

Too much Phosphorus levels affect plant growth by suppressing the uptake of: Iron, potassium and Zinc, potentially causing deficiency symptoms of these nutrients to occur def in plants. A Zinc deficiency is most common under excessive phosphorus conditions,
As well as causing other nutrients to have absorption troubles like zinc and copper. Phosphorus fluctuates when concentrated and combined with calcium

Problems with Phosphorus being locked out by pH troubles
Cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil.

Soil

Phosphorus gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 4.0-5.5
Phosphorus is absorbed best in soil at a pH level of 6.0-7.5 (wouldn't recommend having a pH of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Phosphorus gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at pH levels of 6.0-8.5.
Phosphorus is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at pH levels of 4.0- 5.8. (Wouldn't recommend having a pH over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus Deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Phosphorus deficiency
Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Any chemical or organic fertilizers that have Phosphorus in them will fix a Phosphorus deficiency. If you have a phosphorus deficiency you should use any N-P-K ratio that is over 5.Again Peters all purpose 20-20-20 is a good mix. Miracle grow Tomato plant food, Miracle grow All purpose plant food (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) Other forms of phosphorus supplements are: Bone meal, which is gradual absorption, I suggest making it into a tea for faster use, where bone/blood meal is slow acting, but when made into a tea it works quicker! Fruit eating bat guano, which is fast absorption, Worm castings, which is gradual absorption, Fish meal, which is medium absorption, Soft Rock Phosphate, which is medium absorption, Jamaican or Indonesian Guano, which is fast absorption. Crabshell, which is slow absorption. Tiger Bloom , which is fast absorption.

Here is a list of things to help fix a Phosphorus Deficiency.

Chemical

Advanced nutrients Bloom (0-5-4)
Vita Bloom (0-7-5)
BC Bloom (1.1-4.4-7)
GH Flora Bloom (0-5-4)
GH Maxi Bloom (5-15-14)
GH Floranova Bloom (4-8-7)
Dyna-Gro Bloom (3-12-6)
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom (2-8-4)
Awsome Blossums

Organic

Dr. Hornby's Iguana Juice Bloom (4-3-6)
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Bloom (.5-1.5-2)
Fox Farm Big Bloom (.01-.3-.7)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
Pure Blend Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Buddswell (0-7-0)
Sea Island Jamaican Bat Guano (1-10-0)
Indonesian Bat Guano (0-13-0)
Rainbow Mix Bloom (1-9-2)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
BIO BLOOM (2-6-3.5)
AGE OLD BLOOM (5-10-5)
ALASKA MORBLOOM (0-10-10)
METANATURALS ORGANIC BLOOM (1-5-5)

Any of these will cure your phosphorus deficiency. Affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will appear normal.

Now if you added to much chemical ferts and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.

Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss,
Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your pH down, so if you add these please monitor your pH when using those.

Note: Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Wood Ashes pretty much all ashes, Shellfish Compost and Crab Meal are all alkaline and can make your pH go up, so if you add any of these please monitor your pH.

 

[Kriaze]

Hey BAR, you think I should give them a flush?

 

[B A R]

Just the LSD; follow my suggestions to the letter. Remember, already damaged leafs won't be saved but if no others get all messed up we've found the dilemma. The reason I say only the LSD to start with is because she's the worst out of the bunch and there's as possibility I can be wrong but I doubt it. I've seen this before and have caught it before it got that severe.
But we always have to do the process of elimination first which is why I asked all those questions before making suggestions. A lot of different issues can look the same. I've had issues that I couldn't diagnose to save my life.

Edit: Come to think of it you can give them all a flush, it want hurt but only give the LSD the light Phosphorous feeding when she dries out; she's our guinea pig. The others you can keep feeding H2O after the dry.

 

[Kriaze]

Hey BAR thanks for going into detail, I'll do this today and see what happens. In the meantime I've changed the heating around so that there won't be too high a difference when the lights are out, I should have thought of this earlier but it completely slipped my mind. Also when I was sat in there uploading the pictures yesterday I realised that the lights were on and the fans weren't, one of the timer's isn't keeping up with the other so I've fixed it for now but I'm a bit disappointed that this particular one isn't so reliable. My mate told me the other night that I'm over tending the plants and he may well be right. Maybe I should spend less time checking the actual plants and more time checking over my equipment and setup. Thanks again fellas and all the best

 

[Mono]

That's some great info BAR!!

Kriaze, hope they pull through bud

 

[Kriaze]

Hey Mono thanks for the good wishes. I kind of feel that I've sorted the problem. After giving them a flush I was putting the pots back in the tent and felt a blast of really cold air coming through my intake. Now this just so happens to be the same side where the two problem plants are and after having read about CalMag lockout out at low root temperatures I realised that this might be a part of the problem. I've simply moved the ducting so that it blows against the tent door first rather than the pots and in addition I've added a small exhaust fan to the other tent which is facing towards the main tent. Not so close that the intake would be pulling 'exhaled' air from the other plant (soon to be plural again) but close enough so that it slightly warms the air at night. Things seem to be looking a little better over the past few days, the plants even seem to be having a bit of a stretch which is great to see as I thought they would never grow upwards.

Other things that have happened since my last update is that I ordered some Canna Terra Professional soil along with Biobizz Fishmix, Bat Guano, worm castings and my favourite Secret Golden Tree. I'll be picking up some molasses and Epsom salts soon and I've also got another Incredible Bulk seed in some wet paper towels as we speak. Once this has popped I'll place it in bog standard soil (I read that Canna Terra Pro can be a little hot for seedlings) for around 14 days and then repot into the CTP along with some of my additives such as Volcanic Dust, bonemeal, garden lime, blood fish bones etc and will stay totally organic (or as close to it as I can get using CTP) for the entirety of the grow. I like the idea of not having to piss about with my PH and TDM meters as apparently organic soil buffers itself.

Once that plant is complete I will mix whatever is left over with the compost that is currently breaking down in my tumblers and will use those. I hear that some of the things I have added, such as the Volcanic Dust can take up to a year or two to start releasing their micro nutrients but create a place for beneficial bacteria and enzymes to latch onto, plus once they start releasing they can release for up to five years or so. This means I should be able to keep the soil in use for quite awhile whilst just adding amendments either from my compost if it cooks quick enough to keep up, or from the boxes that I'm starting with.

I won't be linking to the organic journal as I feel this is something that I need to get through myself without feeling a need to keep the journal interesting enough to 'play to the crowd' if you know what I mean, I'm tired of spending money on toys and forcing myself to sound jolly when typing out a journal, when sometimes all I want to do is scream at the screen and go rip out all the lights before going buying some shit weed for an extortionate cost (which I have to do again at the end of the week anyway, kind of wish I hadn't given so much away to my mates now lol, but they're worthy of it). I don't know, I have my ups and downs at the moment which is probably to do with the PTSD that seems to be plaguing me lately. It will be written purely so that I can learn from my mistakes so it's not going to be much of an interesting read anyway. Apologies if this offends anyone, I love this community and that is the last thing I want. It's just that at the moment jolliness feels like one of those fake smiles people put on to face the world. Please don't hate on me for it.

No pictures today as I'm posting this from my phone. I hope that you are all well and I wish you all the best

 

[B A R]

Great news Kraize! See how this works, I'm here trying to help you resolve issues and I think you just resolved the dilemma I'm having with my clones and seedlings:
Most of them are looking pale and I lost one that seemed to just give up. Now that you've mentioned it my Veg Tent is closest to the window which I keep cracked from fall all the way up until spring; then it's back to the AC. This is the first year that tent was pushed that close to the window because I added a 3rd tent.

My overnight/lights out temps are now in the mid to low 60s F in the Veg Tent. I'll be closing the window before going to bed from here on out.

In my opinion the grows with adversity are more entertaining so keep up the good work.

 

[Kriaze]

Hey BAR, it seems that a little conversation goes a long way around here. You solved my problem and I solved yours, did you ever see the film 'throw momma off the train'? Just in case you ever have any problems with the mother in law and such j/k 420!

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

did you ever see the film 'throw momma off the train'? Just in case you ever have any problems with the mother in law and such j/k 420!

This made me laugh. Glad you got your issues sorted.

 

[Kriaze]

Thanks Mr Am4zin, I'm sure these plants will find other issues to resolve once they've got over them, they're a bit finnicky and want to keep the fat man on his toes. No rest for the wicked, I must have been a real bad basted in my previous life

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

Thanks Mr Am4zin, I'm sure these plants will find other issues to resolve once they've got over them, they're a bit finnicky and want to keep the fat man on his toes. No rest for the wicked, I must have been a real bad basted in my previous life

Well you a good person in this life. And they should reward you so. Show them who is boss and don't take any of there messing.

 

[Kriaze]

Maybe nowadays that I'm older mate, I was a right little bugger in my misspent (well spent I say) youth though lol. I thought it was just my children that karma sent to pay me back, now they're grown up and this next set of Devils have been sent to torment me. I'll get them back in the end though, I have the pipe

 

[Weaselcracker]

I agree that it's the grows with adversity that are the most fun (for the rest of us looking on, that is...). I seem to feel a bit of pressure on 420 to keep things positive. It's true that positivity can be a good thing. (I have heard- though I'm not sure I can verify it personally, from lack of experience). I try to tell people my growing situation is actually a mess, but they argue and I don't want to seem like a downer and argue back. Otherwise I'd be talking nonstop about the issues and problems- which are usually what I'm most fixated on anyway, lol - trying to solve the constant issues.
Aside from mold, nanners and seeds, overgrown scrog issues, nute burn, heat burn, various unidentified and unexplained deficiencies, and some bad strain choices, my plants have been trying to prove all my naysaying wrong by posing prettily for the camera every time I go to take pictures.
My journal was intended to sound desperate and frantic- because that's often how things are- and certainly how the grow has been for years. But maybe I just started the journal at the exact time when things leveled off and started working. I still wish it was more desperate sounding instead of all sunshine and nice flowers and congratulatory comments. Personally I don't get much out of grows that seem to run too easily and perfectly. I will end the journal eventually- I haven't decided when. If it gets too jolly it's probably time to quit and start something different.
The point is- no need to be jolly, for my sake anyway Kriaze. Those growing problems you have there are solve-able, and posting about the situation is using the forum as it's meant to be. It will be awesome to see these problems sorted out. I've learned more about growing from 420 in the last year than I did in many years previous. The sorting out process is where the real growing action is, IMO.

I made a DIY door flap for my passive intake vent. Of course there's still cold air blasting in when the fan kicks on and sucks the door open, but at least it's more controlled. I aim the cold air down at the floor in between the lights. You may be able to find something ready made as a vent door that will do the job, if it seems like cold air is coming through when you don't want it to.