300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[Maccar]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

thanks Doc!

yours aren't looking too shabby either

man, that blackberry, I think I got high just lookin' at it, lol



As far as nutes, these are 3-gallon buckets, and I mixed 3 Tbsp of Dynamite purple into the coco/perlite when I transplanted the clones into the buckets.

Then I top-dressed each bucket a few days ago with 2 Tbsp of OC+ to fix an N deficiency, which I suspect may have had more to do with all the flushing I had to do earlier in the grow. In any case, the combination of DM purple and OC+ is working great.

Total of 3 Tbsp DM purple incorporated into the mix, and 2Tbsp of OC+ top-dressed in early bloom to fix an N def.

Incorporating both of them into the mix at the get-go would no doubt work even better.

No other supplements at all except for the 5ml of cal-mag per gallon that I'm adding to either rainwater or RO. I was using PH down after adding the cal-mag to get my PH down to 5.8-6.2, but today I checked the PH of my nute bucket after adding the cal-mag and letting it sit there for a bit, and after about 15min, the PH was down to 6.0 without any PH down.

My RO and rainwater are 7.0 and 7.1 respectively, and the 5ml of cal-mag drops both of them to 6.0. I calibrated my PH meter tonight, so it should have been accurate, but I'm going to let the nute bucket sit there for a few minutes again and recheck it next time I water the girls.

I used rainwater tonight, and with the 5ml of cal-mag, PH and ppm going were 6.0 and 240, and I measured runoff at 6.0 and 820.

I watered with about 30% runoff instead of the bigger flush I was planning because I don't want to leach out too much of the CRF nutes.

Haven't picked up the hygrozyme yet, so I think that's it.

Very simple nute regimen that's working really well so far.

Simple...... Reading that post gave me the dejavu of the times i was sitting glassy eyed in science class at school... lol

Again a stellar job here SS, i cant wait to see the end result. Thats becoming a familiar pattern for me with your journals..

 

[topcat1951]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

thanks Doc!

yours aren't looking too shabby either

man, that blackberry, I think I got high just lookin' at it, lol



As far as nutes, these are 3-gallon buckets, and I mixed 3 Tbsp of Dynamite purple into the coco/perlite when I transplanted the clones into the buckets.

Then I top-dressed each bucket a few days ago with 2 Tbsp of OC+ to fix an N deficiency, which I suspect may have had more to do with all the flushing I had to do earlier in the grow. In any case, the combination of DM purple and OC+ is working great.

Total of 3 Tbsp DM purple incorporated into the mix, and 2Tbsp of OC+ top-dressed in early bloom to fix an N def.

Incorporating both of them into the mix at the get-go would no doubt work even better.

No other supplements at all except for the 5ml of cal-mag per gallon that I'm adding to either rainwater or RO. I was using PH down after adding the cal-mag to get my PH down to 5.8-6.2, but today I checked the PH of my nute bucket after adding the cal-mag and letting it sit there for a bit, and after about 15min, the PH was down to 6.0 without any PH down.

My RO and rainwater are 7.0 and 7.1 respectively, and the 5ml of cal-mag drops both of them to 6.0. I calibrated my PH meter tonight, so it should have been accurate, but I'm going to let the nute bucket sit there for a few minutes again and recheck it next time I water the girls.

I used rainwater tonight, and with the 5ml of cal-mag, PH and ppm going were 6.0 and 240, and I measured runoff at 6.0 and 820.

I watered with about 30% runoff instead of the bigger flush I was planning because I don't want to leach out too much of the CRF nutes.

Haven't picked up the hygrozyme yet, so I think that's it.

Very simple nute regimen that's working really well so far.

Hey SS. Your ladies are awesome! I have a question... what prompted you to try coco as a medium? Had you heard of some advantages to it, or just out of curiosity? I'm still in the planning stages heare, but am looking at a good potting soil/perlite mix, or peat moss/perlite. Do you of any outright disadvantages of either of these mediums? Thanks again for all the info.

T.C.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

34 DAYS FLOWERING

The LED light is hanging a couple of inches lower than the HID light, but since the LED canopy averages a couple of inches shorter, both lights are now about 16" off the canopy.

Canopy temps are averaging around 76-77 in the LED tent, and around 79-80 in the HID tent. No signs of heat stress, so squeaked by on the headroom and should be good to go at around these light heights for the remainder of the grow.

The small branches I trimmed a couple of days ago had some little buds on them that had dried enough to sample today.

Pure Power Plant

indeed




THE HID PLANTS

THE LED PLANTS

This isn't the smoke report, but I'm so stoked by the buzz I got off the little buds that I just have to share it.

Since the aroma from these ladies has been reminding me of sativas in my past, I've been really curious about the high.

After all the indica I've been smoking, I've been hoping for an uplifting cerebral buzz, and PPP does not disappoint.

These ladies must be the indica-leaning pheno in shape only because they're not indica-leaning at all when it comes to the high. The high is just like the Mexican sativas that I grew in the 70's and 80's, but kicked up in potency a few notches, and these were just some crappy little bottom buds.

It lasts a long time too. I took a few hits a couple of hours ago and I'm still all squinty-eyed and feelin' good .





!!!

 

[Wabbits]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Glad to hear its a good smoke

Looks like nice buds on both HID and LED.

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Great looking plants

Is it just me or is the led plant pulling ahead of the HID plants allot more now? looks like their filling in more and are allot more frosty? you can clearly see the plants are thriving on both side, i think they love your fan set up also. IDK bro the led might beat the HID? i bet it does!!

thank you so much for doing this grow, ive been waiting so long to see something like this.

whats that SS? your said CMH vs winner next grow??? lol

na but for real i can already see whee this grow is heading, ur about to be a very very happy man, those are going to be some super duper frosty buds!!! the frost of the led side looks out of this world for this time of flowering. how long does this plant take to flower?

 

[1234a5678b]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Great looking plants

Is it just me or is the led plant pulling ahead of the HID plants allot more now? looks like their filling in more and are allot more frosty? you can clearly see the plants are thriving on both side, i think they love your fan set up also. IDK bro the led might beat the HID? i bet it does!!

thank you so much for doing this grow, ive been waiting so long to see something like this.

whats that SS? your said CMH vs winner next grow??? lol

na but for real i can already see whee this grow is heading, ur about to be a very very happy man, those are going to be some super duper frosty buds!!! the frost of the led side looks out of this world for this time of flowering. how long does this plant take to flower?

Good, it wasn't my aging eyes. The LED appeared frostier to me as well. A friend of mine is running two of the Haight Solid State 1600s. They pulled the blues and replaced them with different wavelength red, and 'white daylight' LEDs when they did the upgrade from the one you used in the previous grow. The lack of crystals was glaringly apparent. I'm seeing the same differences between dual-arc and HPS as to frost production. In a few weeks, I'll know if more frost = more potency. The guys at the local grow shop said more blue = more crystals, but smaller buds. If so, the next thing to try might be flowering under a Hortilux 1000w Blue 80,000lumens, 88,000 on turbo. That's the same output ratings as the Hortilux 600w HPS I used last summer. Any thoughts?

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Glad to hear its a good smoke

Looks like nice buds on both HID and LED.

thanks Wabbits

I agree, both tents are looking good.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Is it just me or is the led plant pulling ahead of the HID plants allot more now? looks like their filling in more and are allot more frosty? you can clearly see the plants are thriving on both side, i think they love your fan set up also. IDK bro the led might beat the HID? i bet it does!!

I wouldn't say the LED plants are pulling ahead by a lot more, but the LED buds definitely look frostier at this point, and they continue to look somewhat fatter and heavier to me than the HID buds.

I'll hold a BIC lighter next to some buds on the next set of pics for perspective.

There's no runaway winner yet though. I had no idea which light would do better when I started the grow, but I never thought both groups would be this close so far into bloom.

I mean, it would be hard to keep two groups of plants this close if you were using the same light in each tent, much less two lights as different as these.

thank you so much for doing this grow, ive been waiting so long to see something like this.

I've been waiting a long time too bro. It's pretty close now, just a few more weeks.

whats that SS? your said CMH vs winner next grow??? lol

the only component of the next grow that I'm fairly certain about is Pure Power Plant

na but for real i can already see whee this grow is heading, ur about to be a very very happy man, those are going to be some super duper frosty buds!!! the frost of the led side looks out of this world for this time of flowering. how long does this plant take to flower?

Yep, they're looking great for 34 days. This strain takes 8-9 weeks to finish.

thanks bro

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I think it was a wise move to limit your run-off... I had an epiphany last night that I was putting too much water through the buckets and leaching away the micros.

I hear you on the "Old School" smoke from the PPP - that might be one thing our pheno's have in common. Definitely reminds me of the better commercial bud back in the day...

I've still not found the seed pack from my last grow... but I'll be sure it let you know if I find the source so people don't make the mistake of getting PPP from the same source.

As for the next grow....

CMH CMH CMH CMH CMH CMH

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I think it was a wise move to limit your run-off... I had an epiphany last night that I was putting too much water through the buckets and leaching away the micros.

The application rate chart from Scotts for OC+ lists "high leach" situations as needing a significantly higher dose of prills *and* soilless media as needing a higher dose, so hempy buckets, being high leach and generally soilless, are a double whammy. Too much runoff or flushing probably drops nutrient levels until the prills give it up and bring the levels back up again.

I can see this producing a zig-zag of ups and downs in the nute delivery to the plants instead of a nice steady supply, so unless the plants are telling me they need a flush, I'm just going to water them with 10-30% runoff. Soil levels out those spikes, but perlite has zero CEC, and coco's CEC isn't enough to deal with heavy watering/flushing, so it's an adjustment that, IMO, needs to be made when using CRF's in soilless media.

It's fun watching the buckets pee, but I'll try to restrain myself, lol.

A bigger dose of prills, and limiting runoff to not wash the nutes out seems to work better. CRF's shouldn't need flushing or lots of runoff anyway because the osmosis prevents them from over-nuting your plants, so unless we do something that messes up those dynamics, just a small amount of runoff should be enough.



That needs to be balanced with the fact that the prills work best in a moist environment, which is why I think it works a lot better to have the prills in the lower half of the bucket, especially in perlite hempies.

Hempy and CRF's should be an absolutely rockin' combo once we sort out the dynamics of how prills interact in different media, and then make the right adjustments.

I wish companies like Scotts would put a little more energy and effort into info on container gardening. I'm sure it's a miniscule segment of their business, but that could change if they were on top of things.

There's no reason we should have to search through Google to find application rates for containers.

I hear you on the "Old School" smoke from the PPP - that might be one thing our pheno's have in common. Definitely reminds me of the better commercial bud back in the day...


I've still not found the seed pack from my last grow... but I'll be sure it let you know if I find the source so people don't make the mistake of getting PPP from the same source.

The buzz I got last night was a lot stronger than good commercial from back in the day, but it had exactly the same energetic cerebral buzz that I remember fondly. All that was missing was black lights, patchouli oil, beads, and Hendrix posters.

Next time I smoke some, I think I'll put on some headphones and crank some Floyd .

As for the next grow....

CMH CMH CMH CMH CMH CMH

Only for you guys would I tolerate a buzzing ballast for 12 weeks, lol.

 

[skotty]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

hey setting sun im loving your work with the led panel and have a couple of questions if i may

i have the same led panel as you are using but would like some advice on the best distance to keep the light above the canopy in flowering stage??

my current grow has suffered on main cola swellage due to what i believe is my panel being to close at 8"-9" away from the top of the plant but my lower buds have grown so much better, however the trich production is on another level, do you have any advice on the best light distances for maximum buddage??

thanks for your time and keep up the good work

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

And have lite conversation about gluonshttps://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/9505231v1

I started having trouble with math when letters entered the equation, so gluons might as well be prions, but I'm glad I got as far as "triangular quark loops". Good name for a cat.

 

[lbezphil2005]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS, everything is looking so incredible! You can definitely see the difference, I love the look of the leaves' edges on the LED plants, man is that going to make some killer hash!! Holy crap, need any help trimming? I'm alll in!!



Great work, bro!!

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

The application rate chart from Scotts for OC+ lists "high leach" situations as needing a significantly higher dose of prills *and* soilless media as needing a higher dose, so hempy buckets, being high leach and generally soilless, are a double whammy. Too much runoff or flushing probably drops nutrient levels until the prills give it up and bring the levels back up again.


A bigger dose of prills, and limiting runoff to not wash the nutes out seems to work better. CRF's shouldn't need flushing or lots of runoff anyway because the osmosis prevents them from over-nuting your plants, so unless we do something that messes up those dynamics, just a small amount of runoff should be enough.

That needs to be balanced with the fact that the prills work best in a moist environment, which is why I think it works a lot better to have the prills in the lower half of the bucket, especially in perlite hempies.

Hempy and CRF's should be an absolutely rockin' combo once we sort out the dynamics of how prills interact in different media, and then make the right adjustments.

Those are some very astute observations! I've been thinking about that, and the conclusion i came to is that for perlite hempys, the less chuncky perlite is a better bet. On my first hempy grow, I got some hydrofarm perlite where all the pieces were BB sized. I think that would work perfectly for a CRF hempy.

Your watering instructions are also spot on.

Great advice, and definitely great growing! You're now officially on Big Mike's hit list.

 

[Barry Manilow]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Beautiful SS. I've been wondering about how much run-off to induce also. I thought you'd want a bunch to create a vacuum effect to suck air down into the roots... but I'm glad to change if that's not the case. I'll keep watching. Thanks for all your work for us!

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Beautiful SS. I've been wondering about how much run-off to induce also. I thought you'd want a bunch to create a vacuum effect to suck air down into the roots... but I'm glad to change if that's not the case. I'll keep watching. Thanks for all your work for us!

You DO want that vacuum effect. That's why you want more prills, and lots down low in the bucket. But watering every 2 or 3 days once they hit the res is different that watering all the time.

CRF's in chunky perlite is something that hasn't been done before till me and SS came along. This grow technique is literally being invented real-time, right here on 420 magazine. We're learning as we go!

And, I'll also point out, the early results....like this very grow...show that this technique is like lightening in a bottle. Variations of the CRF theme is the way forward in growing.

 

[Barry Manilow]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

You DO want that vacuum effect. That's why you want more prills, and lots down low in the bucket. But watering every 2 or 3 days once they hit the res is different that watering all the time.

I'm down on watering less often now, it was my intent all along but with the deficiences I felt like I needed to water more often with less water to leach the ironite down to them.

So on an every 3-4 day watering sked do you want to induce a strong whiz or a trickle? Will the trickle still have the desired vacuum effect?

What I'm doing now is watering with a half gal pitcher over the same spot, I basically try to pour it as quickly as I can without making a mess. When I did that with bagseed yesterday she never did start a strong whiz, just a trickle. Usually that's enough to get them going for 30 seconds or so, but she's really sucking up the water.

CRF's in chunky perlite is something that hasn't been done before till me and SS came along. This grow technique is literally being invented real-time, right here on 420 magazine. We're learning as we go!

And, I'll also point out, the early results....like this very grow...show that this technique is like lightening in a bottle. Variations of the CRF theme is the way forward in growing.

The results are great so far. Once we get dosages dialed in, and supplementing as required, it will indeed be a stonerproof formula.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

it's stoner proof alright.....SS's last grow was with water and OC+....nothing else. Great buds, great yield.

We're there, but in a few more grows this method is going to beat ANY of the expensive ripp-off nutes. It already does, actually. But we want it to blow us away.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

It's good for you
That good old fashioned medicated goo
Ooo, ain't it good for you
My own
Home-grown
Recipe'll see you through




Video in '94 from a song that was released in '67?

b​

Honest, this one is our final reunion tour!.. 'sides mate, we're wasted and can't find our way home​

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Simple...... Reading that post gave me the dejavu of the times i was sitting glassy eyed in science class at school... lol

I reread it and you're right, lol. Using all those acronyms and esoteric phrases is basically just laziness, so thanks for the heads-up.

I sat here glassy-eyed when coming back to the culture after 20 years enough to know exactly what you're talking about. I like things related in simple accessible terms.

Again a stellar job here SS, i cant wait to see the end result. Thats becoming a familiar pattern for me with your journals..

thanks Maccar!

glad you're enjoying the rides, I sure am