300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration
- Thread starter Keith Lake
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Propa Gator
New Member
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
Nobody(few, anyway) does this, we are suckers for toothy hype. Oh, well
Every demonstration and statistical study must be weighed on one's own scale. Even when the author holds a PhD, you read first the protocol then the findings. And digest them with a grain of salt. Don't even believe the face-value of your own experience, without considering covert causes.
Nobody(few, anyway) does this, we are suckers for toothy hype. Oh, well
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
i here u. i felt the same way, i like to be a solo rider. it just wasn't for me at this point and time.
You may notice that I am no longer on staff at 420mag.
I'd like to explain this change so that I don't have to answer a bunch of PM's, lol.
In order to review report on any and all products that are of my personal choosing, I need to be independent.
that's it, nothing more dramatic than that
There's no hard feelings on my part whatsoever.
now, back to our regularly scheduled programming
i here u. i felt the same way, i like to be a solo rider. it just wasn't for me at this point and time.
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
follow the money trail,
and be honest when you meet Mr. Placebo
Every demonstration and statistical study must be weighed on one's own scale. Even when the author holds a PhD, you read first the protocol then the findings. And digest them with a grain of salt. Don't even believe the face-value of your own experience, without considering covert causes.
Nobody(few, anyway) does this, we are suckers for toothy hype. Oh, well
follow the money trail,
and be honest when you meet Mr. Placebo
MJ Crescendo
New Member
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
I'm cool with you being independent. You can now choose all your products! Good times ahead
I'm cool with you being independent. You can now choose all your products! Good times ahead
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
I don't disagree, I could have added "relatively" to impartial which might have been a touch more accurate but I do feel Setting Sun has done a good job of providing some very good information on LED grow lights.
Every demonstration and statistical study must be weighed on one's own scale. Even when the author holds a PhD, you read first the protocol then the findings. And digest them with a grain of salt. Don't even believe the face-value of your own experience, without considering covert causes.
Nobody(few, anyway) does this, we are suckers for toothy hype. Oh, well
I don't disagree, I could have added "relatively" to impartial which might have been a touch more accurate but I do feel Setting Sun has done a good job of providing some very good information on LED grow lights.
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
no severance, but the freedom to test and compare any gear I desire, which I'm looking forward to doing
maybe in the not-too-distant-future, we'll have a cannabis cable channel or three, with segments on growing, cooking, products, etc.
if it was done right, I'm sure the ratings would be good
no severance, but the freedom to test and compare any gear I desire, which I'm looking forward to doing
maybe in the not-too-distant-future, we'll have a cannabis cable channel or three, with segments on growing, cooking, products, etc.
if it was done right, I'm sure the ratings would be good
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
thank you phil!
and thanks for the rep!
I'll keep doing my best to show what these lights can do.
thank you phil!
and thanks for the rep!
I'll keep doing my best to show what these lights can do.
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
It's better this way.
I'm cool with you being independent. You can now choose all your products! Good times ahead
It's better this way.
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
My handle is Setting Sun, Soniq is the moderator who organized and posted the statistical data on that grow, but
for your kind words.
The Quantum Bad Boy, like most T5's, has integrated ballasts, so it will actually require as much or more cooling than the Spectra 360 LED I'm using on this grow.
If you're handy, you can remove the ballasts and make them remote, but doing that is beyond what most growers are willing or able to do.
The Bad Boy is a decent light, but you're still dealing with 400w of heat, and since it's 4' long, there's a lot of personal grow spaces it won't fit in.
I'd rather pay more up front for an LED light and not have to hassle replacing tubes, because by the time the LED light wears out, LED technology will have progressed enough to have me looking for a new one anyway.
But, there are several good lighting options these days, so you can make more than one "right" choice.
I've grown and flowered with T5's, and you can do *very* well with them, but I don't think they produce the same density and frost that these GLH LED lights produce.
Yes, you can change the spectrum with the Bad Boy, but if I have an LED light that can veg and flower like this GLH light, I don't need to change anything, and I certainly don't miss the hassle of changing/storing/disposing tubes.
Each technology has its pros and cons, and we just have to weigh everything out, which it seems you're doing before you make your choice, but again, the 400w Bad Boy is gonna crank out at least as much heat as this LED light, and will have similar ventilation requirements.
Fantastic, for sure. Confirmed what I already knew, having several LED grows under my belt, even though mine is only a UFO 90. So you can well imagine, I am hot for more watts ASAP. Being perplexed whether to get more LEDs or an HID, I sincerely thank you for your effort here! Alas, when I take into account ventilation equip, both ~ 400 watt lights are relatively expensive, at least compared to the Quantum Bad Boy.
I'm thinking their 400 watt /8 bulb (18 X 48 footprint) might be better for 3-4 plants.
Advantages
1. You can grow in a long but narrow closet!
2. Putting them in a line might be easier to work with
3. Control over the spectrums,
3. Bulb replacement.
4. A case of 8 bulbs, either 2900 or 6500, is <$100.
Looking at the grow finished here, that yield was damned good, too. Personally, I would rather spend $200 every couple years than replace another LED, at least until the price comes down to where I am comfortable throwing it away once the LEDs deteriorate.
Anyway, that's a journal I' d like to see: 400 watt Bad Boy vs either or both.
Clearly, you are the man/woman- Soniq could go either way no?- to do it.
My handle is Setting Sun, Soniq is the moderator who organized and posted the statistical data on that grow, but
for your kind words.The Quantum Bad Boy, like most T5's, has integrated ballasts, so it will actually require as much or more cooling than the Spectra 360 LED I'm using on this grow.
If you're handy, you can remove the ballasts and make them remote, but doing that is beyond what most growers are willing or able to do.
The Bad Boy is a decent light, but you're still dealing with 400w of heat, and since it's 4' long, there's a lot of personal grow spaces it won't fit in.
I'd rather pay more up front for an LED light and not have to hassle replacing tubes, because by the time the LED light wears out, LED technology will have progressed enough to have me looking for a new one anyway.
But, there are several good lighting options these days, so you can make more than one "right" choice.
I've grown and flowered with T5's, and you can do *very* well with them, but I don't think they produce the same density and frost that these GLH LED lights produce.
Yes, you can change the spectrum with the Bad Boy, but if I have an LED light that can veg and flower like this GLH light, I don't need to change anything, and I certainly don't miss the hassle of changing/storing/disposing tubes.
Each technology has its pros and cons, and we just have to weigh everything out, which it seems you're doing before you make your choice, but again, the 400w Bad Boy is gonna crank out at least as much heat as this LED light, and will have similar ventilation requirements.
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
that's a brilliant idea, bro. Seriously.
Also, your plants look brilliant too! Gorgeous!
Can you quickly go over your nutes again?
no severance, but the freedom to test and compare any gear I desire, which I'm looking forward to doing
maybe in the not-too-distant-future, we'll have a cannabis cable channel or three, with segments on growing, cooking, products, etc.
if it was done right, I'm sure the ratings would be good
that's a brilliant idea, bro. Seriously.
Also, your plants look brilliant too! Gorgeous!
Can you quickly go over your nutes again?
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
Just finished watering the ladies.
They're looking really good and starting to smell stronger now, but odor is still very manageable.
Buds are fattening up and getting frosty in both tents. The LED buds look a little bigger and heavier, but the HID plants are a bit larger overall, so when I try to estimate total buddage by eyeball, it's pretty much a wash at this point.
bel, I smelled several buds in each group and at this point, they smell pretty much the same to me. Nice fresh smell, very pleasant. Nothing at all like the VK stench of a couple of grows ago, thank goodness. I will never forget that funk.
I'll post some pics tomorrow.
thanks peeps
Just finished watering the ladies.
They're looking really good and starting to smell stronger now, but odor is still very manageable.
Buds are fattening up and getting frosty in both tents. The LED buds look a little bigger and heavier, but the HID plants are a bit larger overall, so when I try to estimate total buddage by eyeball, it's pretty much a wash at this point.
bel, I smelled several buds in each group and at this point, they smell pretty much the same to me. Nice fresh smell, very pleasant. Nothing at all like the VK stench of a couple of grows ago, thank goodness. I will never forget that funk
.I'll post some pics tomorrow.
thanks peeps
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
thanks Doc!
yours aren't looking too shabby either
man, that blackberry, I think I got high just lookin' at it, lol
As far as nutes, these are 3-gallon buckets, and I mixed 3 Tbsp of Dynamite purple into the coco/perlite when I transplanted the clones into the buckets.
Then I top-dressed each bucket a few days ago with 2 Tbsp of OC+ to fix an N deficiency, which I suspect may have had more to do with all the flushing I had to do earlier in the grow. In any case, the combination of DM purple and OC+ is working great.
Total of 3 Tbsp DM purple incorporated into the mix, and 2Tbsp of OC+ top-dressed in early bloom to fix an N def.
Incorporating both of them into the mix at the get-go would no doubt work even better.
No other supplements at all except for the 5ml of cal-mag per gallon that I'm adding to either rainwater or RO. I was using PH down after adding the cal-mag to get my PH down to 5.8-6.2, but today I checked the PH of my nute bucket after adding the cal-mag and letting it sit there for a bit, and after about 15min, the PH was down to 6.0 without any PH down.
My RO and rainwater are 7.0 and 7.1 respectively, and the 5ml of cal-mag drops both of them to 6.0. I calibrated my PH meter tonight, so it should have been accurate, but I'm going to let the nute bucket sit there for a few minutes again and recheck it next time I water the girls.
I used rainwater tonight, and with the 5ml of cal-mag, PH and ppm going were 6.0 and 240, and I measured runoff at 6.0 and 820.
I watered with about 30% runoff instead of the bigger flush I was planning because I don't want to leach out too much of the CRF nutes.
Haven't picked up the hygrozyme yet, so I think that's it.
Very simple nute regimen that's working really well so far.
thanks Doc!
yours aren't looking too shabby either
man, that blackberry, I think I got high just lookin' at it, lol
As far as nutes, these are 3-gallon buckets, and I mixed 3 Tbsp of Dynamite purple into the coco/perlite when I transplanted the clones into the buckets.
Then I top-dressed each bucket a few days ago with 2 Tbsp of OC+ to fix an N deficiency, which I suspect may have had more to do with all the flushing I had to do earlier in the grow. In any case, the combination of DM purple and OC+ is working great.
Total of 3 Tbsp DM purple incorporated into the mix, and 2Tbsp of OC+ top-dressed in early bloom to fix an N def.
Incorporating both of them into the mix at the get-go would no doubt work even better.
No other supplements at all except for the 5ml of cal-mag per gallon that I'm adding to either rainwater or RO. I was using PH down after adding the cal-mag to get my PH down to 5.8-6.2, but today I checked the PH of my nute bucket after adding the cal-mag and letting it sit there for a bit, and after about 15min, the PH was down to 6.0 without any PH down.
My RO and rainwater are 7.0 and 7.1 respectively, and the 5ml of cal-mag drops both of them to 6.0. I calibrated my PH meter tonight, so it should have been accurate, but I'm going to let the nute bucket sit there for a few minutes again and recheck it next time I water the girls.
I used rainwater tonight, and with the 5ml of cal-mag, PH and ppm going were 6.0 and 240, and I measured runoff at 6.0 and 820.
I watered with about 30% runoff instead of the bigger flush I was planning because I don't want to leach out too much of the CRF nutes.
Haven't picked up the hygrozyme yet, so I think that's it.
Very simple nute regimen that's working really well so far.
1234a5678b
New Member
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
Glad to hear you aren't leaving.
What heat issues this time of year?
I'm running a couple of 1000w dual-arcs for a home heating system.
However I'm sure we can't count on ever having a mild summer like the last one in Northern California again in our lifetimes.
What's your opinion of liquid cooled set ups like the Fresca Sol?
They claim to be rated for 1000hps, but I wonder if you could run a 600w in one of those 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 tents in the summer.
I had to dim my ballast to 250 last summer several times, however the Super Sun II reflectors run hot for some reason..
Another idea I had was to run 4 2' T5 single strips in the corners to enhance the penetration of the LEDs.
Anyway, it looks like I have the winter to watch you work your magic.
I'm sure you will save me hundreds, if not thousands, in R&D.
Thanks for all of your efforts.
Glad to hear you aren't leaving.
What heat issues this time of year?
I'm running a couple of 1000w dual-arcs for a home heating system.
However I'm sure we can't count on ever having a mild summer like the last one in Northern California again in our lifetimes.
What's your opinion of liquid cooled set ups like the Fresca Sol?
They claim to be rated for 1000hps, but I wonder if you could run a 600w in one of those 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 tents in the summer.
I had to dim my ballast to 250 last summer several times, however the Super Sun II reflectors run hot for some reason..
Another idea I had was to run 4 2' T5 single strips in the corners to enhance the penetration of the LEDs.
Anyway, it looks like I have the winter to watch you work your magic.
I'm sure you will save me hundreds, if not thousands, in R&D.
Thanks for all of your efforts.
Tyrone Hamilton
New Member
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
Nice Nute summary Sun - and glad to see everything is cool.
You grow the prettiest plants man - I'm doing ok with my buds, but next time my goal is to get a little closer to the ideal you've presented us all here.
Nice Nute summary Sun - and glad to see everything is cool.
You grow the prettiest plants man - I'm doing ok with my buds, but next time my goal is to get a little closer to the ideal you've presented us all here.
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
Very Nice!
Very Nice!
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
thanks!
I made a commitment to do this grow, and I take my commitments very seriously.
there's no way I would take my ball and go home halfway through when you guys have been so supportive in following this grow and towards me.
This time of year, it's about heating for me also. On the LED grow where I compared the low-powered LED lights, I had to use a 1500w space heater in the garage to keep it warm enough. Not very efficient, lol.
On this grow, there's enough heat generated by the lights to keep my garage averaging 75 at night, when I run my lights, which is very efficient and completely bitchen. "Free" heat is the bestest kind.
With temps dropping to 65 or so during the day, it's almost perfect flowering weather, except for the RH, which is much better now at 45, but doesn't get much lower here so close to the coast. I'm not complaining, though, and the ladies don't seem to be either.
I'm on the Central Coast, where temps can occasionally get well over 100F in summer, and below freezing in winter, so while the weather is generally mild, if you grow year-round, you're occasionally facing some challenging temps at both ends of the scale. I've worked out several different venting schemes to help my plants get through the extremes.
Using the space heater again is not an option.
If my circumstances and needs required the efficiency of water-cooling, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
I adds complexity, which is always good to avoid, but sometimes you just have no other choice if your situation dictates it.
Water-cooling works very well in lots of other industries and technologies where heat needs to be managed aggressively, and it works great to cool grow lights also.
It adds some maintenance also, because you have to keep the lines and glass clean, but at least it allows you to grow in climes where it would be impossible otherwise, unless you were willing to grow with lower watts for a lower yield.
I've never run a water-cooled setup, so not a clue, but I'd imagine there's some useful info somewhere on the Net on that.
Nice to have the option of dimming the ballast when things get too hot. That's another advantage to the newer digital ballasts.
The Super Sun II (and the 4" original Super Sun) are some of the best HID reflectors on the market. They're not large reflectors, so they run a little hot, but they throw one hell of a bright pattern. If you're running them air-cooled, I'd upgrade the fans to cool them off better.
Those strips have to be really close to the plants to work well, so if your plants are like 3-6" away from the corners, they would add some coverage, but farther than that would just use more watts and not add much.
Hanging some CFL's bulbs so they're down below the canopy works really well, and all you need is some extension cords, socket adapters, and CFL bulbs of choice.
I've used a couple of 42w 2700k CFL's hanging down on each side of my tent, along with my 250w HID, and it works great.
brother grower
thanks!
I made a commitment to do this grow, and I take my commitments very seriously.
there's no way I would take my ball and go home halfway through when you guys have been so supportive in following this grow and towards me.
This time of year, it's about heating for me also. On the LED grow where I compared the low-powered LED lights, I had to use a 1500w space heater in the garage to keep it warm enough. Not very efficient, lol.
On this grow, there's enough heat generated by the lights to keep my garage averaging 75 at night, when I run my lights, which is very efficient and completely bitchen. "Free" heat is the bestest kind
.With temps dropping to 65 or so during the day, it's almost perfect flowering weather, except for the RH, which is much better now at 45, but doesn't get much lower here so close to the coast. I'm not complaining, though, and the ladies don't seem to be either
.I'm on the Central Coast, where temps can occasionally get well over 100F in summer, and below freezing in winter, so while the weather is generally mild, if you grow year-round, you're occasionally facing some challenging temps at both ends of the scale. I've worked out several different venting schemes to help my plants get through the extremes.
Using the space heater again is not an option
.If my circumstances and needs required the efficiency of water-cooling, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
I adds complexity, which is always good to avoid, but sometimes you just have no other choice if your situation dictates it.
Water-cooling works very well in lots of other industries and technologies where heat needs to be managed aggressively, and it works great to cool grow lights also.
It adds some maintenance also, because you have to keep the lines and glass clean, but at least it allows you to grow in climes where it would be impossible otherwise, unless you were willing to grow with lower watts for a lower yield.
I've never run a water-cooled setup, so not a clue, but I'd imagine there's some useful info somewhere on the Net on that.
Nice to have the option of dimming the ballast when things get too hot. That's another advantage to the newer digital ballasts.
The Super Sun II (and the 4" original Super Sun) are some of the best HID reflectors on the market. They're not large reflectors, so they run a little hot, but they throw one hell of a bright pattern. If you're running them air-cooled, I'd upgrade the fans to cool them off better.
Those strips have to be really close to the plants to work well, so if your plants are like 3-6" away from the corners, they would add some coverage, but farther than that would just use more watts and not add much.
Hanging some CFL's bulbs so they're down below the canopy works really well, and all you need is some extension cords, socket adapters, and CFL bulbs of choice.
I've used a couple of 42w 2700k CFL's hanging down on each side of my tent, along with my 250w HID, and it works great.
brother grower
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
I set up my grow room specifically to experiment with and compare different gear, so yup, everything's cool now brother
thank you OB, coming from you that is quite a nice compliment.
Nice Nute summary Sun - and glad to see everything is cool.
I set up my grow room specifically to experiment with and compare different gear, so yup, everything's cool now brother
thank you OB, coming from you that is quite a nice compliment.
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
thanks Doc!
I forgot to list one thing. When I had the mag deficiency early on, I top-dressed each bucket with 1 Tbsp of prilled dolomite lime.
I have no way of knowing whether it helped or not.
It seems like what really straightened things out deficiency-wise was the addition of the OC+.
If someone thinks it has too much N and inhibits flowering, I got a couple tents to show them, lol
thanks Doc!
I forgot to list one thing. When I had the mag deficiency early on, I top-dressed each bucket with 1 Tbsp of prilled dolomite lime.
I have no way of knowing whether it helped or not.
It seems like what really straightened things out deficiency-wise was the addition of the OC+.
If someone thinks it has too much N and inhibits flowering, I got a couple tents to show them, lol
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
I've got Dolomite in all of mine too....
And hopefully we've got that high N inhibition thing debunked. If the N isn't high enough to burn them, or give them the claw....it sure as hell isn't going to inhibit flowering.
And yes....your tents pretty much proves that.
I've got Dolomite in all of mine too....
And hopefully we've got that high N inhibition thing debunked. If the N isn't high enough to burn them, or give them the claw....it sure as hell isn't going to inhibit flowering.
And yes....your tents pretty much proves that.