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IrishBoy said:
i am curious about the taste ans smell at the end also.

from what ive been told and read you dont need to flush because theirs not extras put off only what the plant needs when it needs it.

now the P is a little low on the purple bottle but from what i read and what Doc was saying its ideal for plant with those ratios. so in theory the purple bottle should be very ideal for MJ plants in fact most plants. its as close to a 3-1-2 profile as ive seen. So if Doc and a few others are right it should outperform all the others.

i still think the red bottle is going to do better in flowering then the others but i will have to add Cal/Mag to it so that one bad thing.
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they'll all work really, really well.
The product will taste better than anything you have grown with chemical ferts,

And please don't flush! It will accomplish nothing. There won't be salt buildup or anything like that. All flushing will do is over water, because every time you water, nutes will be released.

As far as the heat goes....to a point, higher temps mean faster growth and more nutrients needed. OC has this figured out and factored in to their product, as does DM.

Of the 3 of those products, I am very interested in the OC+ vs the Purple DM. Honestly, I don't think you will be able to tell the difference, but I am very interested in seeing how it turns out.

These products are almost too good to be true.....but they are true, and they are the real deal.

As far as adding P...why? What possible reason is there for adding something the plant doesn't need in large amounts? I am aware of the mythology and outdated tradition of high PK bloom foods, but the science isn't there to back up the mythology.

3-1-2 and micro's. That's where it's at.
 
DocBud said:
As far as adding P...why? What possible reason is there for adding something the plant doesn't need in large amounts? I am aware of the mythology and outdated tradition of high PK bloom foods, but the science isn't there to back up the mythology.

3-1-2 and micro's. That's where it's at.
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Awesome info Doc! I was totally bassackwards on the flush.

On the Phosphorus, I was not aware that the idea they needed more P in flower was false. I seem to be fighting that perpetually in my hydro setups, but I thought that's cause I use PBP (basically organic) and it is slow to metabolize the P. Hydroplex is a 0-10-0 addative that seemed to both fix the P def and increase the size of the buds for me.

Now you've got me rethinking the whole thing.

:thumb::peacetwo::tokin:
 
Papa Green said:
Awesome info Doc! I was totally bassackwards on the flush.

On the Phosphorus, I was not aware that the idea they needed more P in flower was false. I seem to be fighting that perpetually in my hydro setups, but I thought that's cause I use PBP (basically organic) and it is slow to metabolize the P. Hydroplex is a 0-10-0 addative that seemed to both fix the P def and increase the size of the buds for me.

Now you've got me rethinking the whole thing.

:thumb::peacetwo::tokin:
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well this grow will answer that for us? the red bottle has higher P= 13 and the purple has the lower P=5 the OC+ has about mid of P= 9 so lets see what happens?

i am still having a hard time wrapping my mind around MJ plants not needing allot of PK in flower and using high N in flowering. its way backwards from all i have known from my growing time and every MJ book i have read.

i am not 100% sold on this mainly the high N in flowering, because i use to use ferts that were high in N in Flowering and i had allot of trouble and my stalks always folded over. but then again its different with TRF because before i was just mixing nutes and feeding so the plant was always getting more then it could feed on.

but its still twisted to me but sometimes you just need to see things for ureslf to believe it.

my money is still on the Red bottle with the lower N and higher PK because thats all my mind knows from my past growing. but who knows?

i agree with Doc that i doubt their will be much difference between the purple bottle and the OC+

i am very excited to see what happens, i just wish i could have played around with these a long time ago. but test like these is whats going to change growing, and theirs still allot of different TRF out their for others to try out so we can put all the data together and work as a team and figure things out for us and others. if these work everyone could be a expert grower! and not ruin these crops from burning them or having nute problems and lockout. we can now spend more time in the more important things like our growing environment, because thats where the true yield is at!!!! the environment is the most important thing for yield and a good harvest..
 
Papa Green said:
Awesome info Doc! I was totally bassackwards on the flush.

On the Phosphorus, I was not aware that the idea they needed more P in flower was false. I seem to be fighting that perpetually in my hydro setups, but I thought that's cause I use PBP (basically organic) and it is slow to metabolize the P. Hydroplex is a 0-10-0 addative that seemed to both fix the P def and increase the size of the buds for me.

Now you've got me rethinking the whole thing.

:thumb::peacetwo::tokin:
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Let me first say that I don't know much about hydro....it could be that plants absorb nutrients in hydro differently---I'm just speculating---and that's why high P bloom foods are used. I dunno.

However, in soil, there are numerous studies from horticultural departments in major universities that contradict the notion that high P is "good for bloom."

Certainly a deficiency is bad for bloom....ANY kind of deficiency. But overfeeding of one element has an effect on the others.
Here's a great chart that talks about the interaction of various elements:
Concepts in Plant Nutrition
Please note, excess P creates trouble with poor uptake of zinc, iron and copper.

Excess Ca creates problems with Boron, Magnesium and phosphorus....

The bottom line is that you want to give the plant what it needs. Overfeeding could be worse than underfeeding, but both are to be avoided. That's why these CRF's are so damn cool! (It's also why professional nurseries use 'em all the time. They don't use Advanced Nutrients and other similar companies, however.
 
IrishBoy said:
i am very excited to see what happens, i just wish i could have played around with these a long time ago. but test like these is whats going to change growing, and theirs still allot of different TRF out their for others to try out so we can put all the data together and work as a team and figure things out for us and others. if these work everyone could be a expert grower! and not ruin these crops from burning them or having nute problems and lockout. we can now spend more time in the more important things like our growing environment, because thats where the true yield is at!!!! the environment is the most important thing for yield and a good harvest..
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Exactly! Environment is the most important thing.

We cannabis growers have gotten off on the wrong foot. The need for stealth has really made the environment challenging. In order to maximize yield from a poor environment, we have all been easy prey for ANY product that results in "massive flowers." As with anything, tradition sets in, and next thing you know the "truth" is what's accepted as true, whether it's true or not.

The "truth" is: healthy leaves and healthy roots lead to healthy (large) buds. Flowering is a hormonal response. While poor nutrition (over/under feeding) can result in poor yield, there is NO EVIDENCE that massive amounts of ANY nutrient is going to improve anything.

If the plant has what it needs, and is in an optimal environment, it will do what it is supposed to do....grow and flower.
 
DocBud said:
Exactly! Environment is the most important thing.

We cannabis growers have gotten off on the wrong foot. The need for stealth has really made the environment challenging. In order to maximize yield from a poor environment, we have all been easy prey for ANY product that results in "massive flowers." As with anything, tradition sets in, and next thing you know the "truth" is what's accepted as true, whether it's true or not.

The "truth" is: healthy leaves and healthy roots lead to healthy (large) buds. Flowering is a hormonal response. While poor nutrition (over/under feeding) can result in poor yield, there is NO EVIDENCE that massive amounts of ANY nutrient is going to improve anything.

If the plant has what it needs, and is in an optimal environment, it will do what it is supposed to do....grow and flower.
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its nature. i agree 100% we get wrapped up in the prerrty bottles of nutes and lose focus of whats important. Ive been trying to tell others for the longest time K.I.S.S. AND JUST FOCUS ON THE ENVIRONMENT!! I have said this because i have seen it!! i have spent allot of money on nutes in the past because it says this and that, when i have a buddy that just uses cheap nutes but has his environment dialed in and pulls some massive sexy buds all day.

Now i am not saying that TRF are the answer because i dont know that for sure but i can say i know for a fact you dont need $100 worth of nutes to feed ur plants to have good buds.. i DO know for a fact that a dialed in environment will pull massive grade A+ buds all day.. i lose focus of my environment all the time because i am busy mixing the nutes and chasing PH flexing from the nutes..

my girls were the most beautiful girls i have ever seen in person, but i got caught up in adding this and that and spending time on mixing nutes that my girls have lost all the beauty!! its really sad to see such beautiful go down hill because of high temps and a bad environment... now i dont put all the balm on myself because their all of things that were out of my hand because of the heat and me not able to run A/C.. MY YIELD WILL SUFFER FOR SURE ON THIS GROW!!! i was just pulling off some dead branches on a few of my plants ive never had to do that in my growing time, and its sad to see some branches dieing.. all because of a bad environment!! If their are some Newbie grows reading this take the advice we are giving and focus on ur environment and dont relie on spending tons of money on 50 different nutes.

I look at feeding ur girls like this: when you go out to eat at an all you can get buffet, you eat until you full, if you leave you will be good to go for the rest of the day.. but if you keep eating after ur full all u are going to do is get sick and have trouble.. same thing with feeding the plants more then what they can use, its just going to build up in their system and cause trouble..lol

Shit i am rambling on because i am too high.lol
 
Oh ya my girl that was feed with the DM is in full blown flower mode!! i am so happy!! the others are still lagging, but i do have one Maxi Plant that is flowering better then the others and its the one with the Cal def.. but its still not close to the DM plant.. i just feed all the girls with DM and OC+ so we shall see what happens?

The DM plant is making me proud she budding quick!!!:slide:
 
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IrishBoy said:
Alright guys i want to help us figure things out so i am will to put my yield and plants on the line to find witch one flowers the best? it cost some money up front, but either way i will still save in the long run from not buying GH anymore. Not too sure what i will do with the one that performs the least? maybe just call it a lost and give it to my folks for their veggie garden or something. but this should help allot of us out. i just picked up the purple bottle of the DM and i like its profile it has more cal in it them the OC+ witch is good for my led grows because i always get a Cal def.. my money is still on the red bottle of the DM with the NPK 13-13-13 but the one thing i dont like about that one is theirs no Cal in it. but the NPK seems to be a all around good one.

Ive been reading allot about this 3-2-1 profile on nutes so i got the closes i can find 15-5-9 witch is 3-2-1.8 i believe? so lets see if this theory is right.

now right off the bat i will say i am liking the DM better then the OC+ because it seems to have better nute realse is warmer and colder temps them the OC+. when its hot the OC+ will dump allot of nutes out where the DM will put out still around the ideal nutes in the warmer temps. I also like how the DM last for 9 months and the OC+ is only 6 months in ideal temps, the hotter the less the OC+ last. you also use less of the DM when feeding to ur plants.

the DM is also the winner of the Gulf Guardian Award, and makes things real nice and safe for our rivers because it wont leach out extra nutes only puts out what the plants need.

the only thing the OC+ has that the DM dosent is Zinc.

out of my 6 girls i will do 2 plants witch each fert for bloom and see what happens?

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Since you guys were talking about the TR ferts i started looking around and i found an organic one at this Avenger 4-2-3 Organic Granular Slow Release fertilizer 40 LBsite that is decent deal for the money you get 40lbs for about 60 sumthn dollars after shipping. I am (if i have the money) going to buy a bag for my winter veggie garden.
What do you guys think?

ps sorry if this post shows up twice my internet is acting funny tonite
 
bmarduk said:
Can't b 2 high. Ebery thyme I walk into a HydroStore, I am amazed at what I call the 'Wall Of Water' that is micronuted water with nute deficiencies designed in. Gotta buy all 3 [or 7] in order to get eberty'ing yer plant needs. Designed deficiencies in order to sell more water. Let's try a process called 'serial dilutions' where we do the math, homework on the nutes, and provide the water ourselves, necessary, not extravagant amounts of nutes, and superior genetics.



Robust growth, superior genetics, optimized environment, adequate nutes= big, phat budz.


43 daze from seed, nothin' fancy nutewize, just good genetics and decent care.

K.I.S.S., OCAM'S RAZOR, AND THE LAW OF PARSIMONY RULE!

b:surf:
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Thats funny "WALL OF WATER" lol.. i like that one. very true though..


falcore said:
Since you guys were talking about the TR ferts i started looking around and i found an organic one at this Avenger 4-2-3 Organic Granular Slow Release fertilizer 40 LBsite that is decent deal for the money you get 40lbs for about 60 sumthn dollars after shipping. I am (if i have the money) going to buy a bag for my winter veggie garden.
What do you guys think?

ps sorry if this post shows up twice my internet is acting funny tonite
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looks good to me for the price.. but to be honest i dont know too much about TRF i am just getting started Doc and SS are the ones to ask. all i know is i am in love with just giving my girls water and not mixing all kinds of things, life is so much better now.lol
 
I'm presently flowering a line that I recently ran with 'additives'. This run is with only light base nutes. Buds look good so far. Time release prills alone are next, I've become a believer while reading this journal. :thankyou:
Big sugary buds are about superior genetics grown in good enviroment with enough light.
 
Propa Gator said:
I'm presently flowering a line that I recently ran with 'additives'. This run is with only light base nutes. Buds look good so far. Time release prills alone are next, I've become a believer while reading this journal. :thankyou:
Big sugary buds are about superior genetics grown in good enviroment with enough light.
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the funny thing is their was a time where i was using all kinds of additives ans costly things and never had the best results, on my last grow i just used the GH Flora Micro and the GH FLora Bloom AKA the Lucas Formula and my plants did great and better then the ones with all the additives. we are over feeding are plants way too much and leaving nothing but salts and extra nutes into our mediums, the guess what we feed them again and just pile more shit into out medium so our roots get all junked up with salts and stuff. I truly think if someone uses AN GH or FF or whatever? its best to feed with nutes then water on the next feeding then nutes then water ect.... that way we allow our plants to feed on all the unused stuff from the last feeding. the other bad thing about GH, AN ect.. is they dont but allot of Micro nutes into the nutes is only the basics to keep the plant good, with these TRF ferts they have everything all 12 miro's to keep the plants healthy..

Its just like you said bro good buds are from good genetics and a dialed in environment and a well balance nute.. thats the key.. this is the reason why i have been growing the same strain for the last 3 grows because i want to learn it in and out and master that strain then learn another one to master.

Check out Doc's and SS threads lots of great info on TRF over there.

its just like all these Spider Mite sprays that company's make a killing off of because they know your screwed and hurting so you will drop money fast to save ur girls.. Fu*k that noise and take $6.00 and go buy a No Pest Strip and be done!! no spraying ur girls all over or anything.. Hang that thing and be done and mite free!!
 
all the girls are doing great nice and perky looking with all the TRF, still have to give it a few waterings to let the DM and OC+ kick in..

The original DM is budding very nice and pushing buds out.. i am a very happy man.. i just hope the others fall into her foot steps now that i added the DM and OC+ to all my plants..

After all the reading i have been doing if i could go back into time i wouldnt have picked the GH nutes to use, but i would have picked Dyna-Gro nutes their really have their stuff down with six macronutrients and all ten essential micronutrients

Ingredients: Ammonium Nitrate, Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Mono-Ammonium Phosphate, Mono-Potassium Phosphate, Cobaltous Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Boric Acid, Molybdic Acid, Potassium Chloride, Manganese, Iron, Copper and Zinc Disodium Ethylenediamine Tetra Acetate (EDTA).

ive been talking to some respected growers like Uncle Ben and a few others and they all swear no others can compete. if i dont like these TRF then i will be trying Dyna-Gro for sure. ive seen some very very nice buds with this stuff.

If anyone has tried this or any info please share it with me because i would love to here how it worked for you guys?
 
I look at my nute bottle collection with woe
Half or more yet in them, ready to grow
There's H&G Cocos and General Hydro
and various mutts that also miss the show

They all cost money, but that's the deal
All work quite well, or is that my feel?
Trying this imbed technology
To enjoy some percieved simplicity
 
I was wondering...::: Does anybody else feel a bit strange after working under those LED lights after a few minutes? I got mine up n running today and as I was setting things up while under the light I began to get light headed and miscombobulated. Maybe just me but I wanted to check around. And I'm not just talking about the wierd tint of green you see after seeing that light too long. That's a bit crazy too lol!
 
IrishBoy said:
all the girls are doing great nice and perky looking with all the TRF, still have to give it a few waterings to let the DM and OC+ kick in..

The original DM is budding very nice and pushing buds out.. i am a very happy man.. i just hope the others fall into her foot steps now that i added the DM and OC+ to all my plants..

After all the reading i have been doing if i could go back into time i wouldnt have picked the GH nutes to use, but i would have picked Dyna-Gro nutes their really have their stuff down with six macronutrients and all ten essential micronutrients

Ingredients: Ammonium Nitrate, Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Mono-Ammonium Phosphate, Mono-Potassium Phosphate, Cobaltous Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Boric Acid, Molybdic Acid, Potassium Chloride, Manganese, Iron, Copper and Zinc Disodium Ethylenediamine Tetra Acetate (EDTA).

ive been talking to some respected growers like Uncle Ben and a few others and they all swear no others can compete. if i dont like these TRF then i will be trying Dyna-Gro for sure. ive seen some very very nice buds with this stuff.

If anyone has tried this or any info please share it with me because i would love to here how it worked for you guys?
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dyna-gro is great stuff. I've not used it, but the profile is there, and yes, Uncle Ben likes it.

However, UB doesn't use it.

He uses an organic soil blended with compost, horse manure, dolomite lime, Polyon (a CRF) and Alfalfa tea. That's not "all" he uses, but that's pretty close to what he does for an indoor grow. He never wastes his time pH'ing water and he strives to grow lots of healthy leaves and roots before flowering.....he keeps the N up from start to finish, in order to keep 'em green.

Please note: by keeping N "high" that does not mean over-feeding and impeding flowering....it means giving the plant what it needs in order to have healthy bud-producing sugar factories. (leaves)

We all need to remember that plants don't flower because someone mixes up "bloom nutes." Our plants flower as a result of photperiod. As long as we aren't under/over feeding, our plants will achieve their potential in their given environment.

OC+, Dynamite, or other CRF's are not the "best" way to grow. But they work really, really well! And, they are cheap and very easy....stoner proof.

I think the "best" way to grow would be something like this:

1.)grow a strain that you know intimately and have grown many times before
2.)dial in the environment for that strain
3.)dial in a custom organic soil blend that works for that strain
4.)additives, CRF's, teas.....all used as a result of experience with the chosen strain.

If you don't have that much experience.....use OC+, DM or another CRF and get a 90/100, instead of a 99.
 
^^ Yep, getting that last 10 % usually costs 10 times as much or more. Diminishing returns....
 
619ster said:
I was wondering...::: Does anybody else feel a bit strange after working under those LED lights after a few minutes? I got mine up n running today and as I was setting things up while under the light I began to get light headed and miscombobulated. Maybe just me but I wanted to check around. And I'm not just talking about the wierd tint of green you see after seeing that light too long. That's a bit crazy too lol!
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na bro only see green colors but now i dont see anything i am use to it. not a good thing. want to see some colors go into a room with 1080w of leds.lol
 
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