Yankeetoker's 2nd Grow Attempt - 2016 - All Advice Welcome!

yankeetoker said:
Thanks, Dennise! As I look at your list, I see Promix HP where I was using peat, I have some EWC, I just need to get more. I will do some research, but I think the Lobster Compost can be substituted for the compost and Yum Yum that you use. I have some azomite and myco. I need a substitute for the bat guano though.

Radogast, feel free to share your thoughts...am I on the right track?:thanks::circle-of-love:
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If you keep asking on the on the soil building thread.... you will be on the right track - what you says sounds good to me, but they know more :)
 
I think you are on the right track with the Yum-Yum and compost being replaced with the Lobster stuff and with the other ammendments PJ told you to use I think you will be fine with what I have been able to find on the Lobster stuff... and I'm really not sure you would even need the bat poop with the Lobster stuff..... but will do a bit more reading on that one....:thumb:..:circle-of-love:
 
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Dennise:

Here is the product analysis of the Lobster Compost....PeeJay classified it as more of a soil amendment than a compost.
 
Thanks for the invite over at Smoke's journal. Looks like you have all the help you could possibly need over here but I am available for jokes or :thumb: as necessary. That Lobster Compost does sound a bit like Yum Yum mix. Very interesting stuff!
Bob ;)
 
For your compost to work it says to dig a hole outback and pour some into it, then keep buried for a month, dig it up and put into your container.
Don't you have some in an outdoor garden you could dig up and try?
Or
go to h.depooo and get some pro~mix, then buy a good line of nutrients that peeps here can help you with and go from there. It's easy to use, has nutrients for up to 2-3 weeks, great for seedlings.

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yankeetoker said:
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Dennise:

Here is the product analysis of the Lobster Compost....PeeJay classified it as more of a soil amendment than a compost.
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Yankeetoker, color me shocked.. we have been talking about an entirely different product !!!

That label looks like a Coast of Maine 5-2-4 calcium enriched fertilizer with instructions "Mix 1lb per 1 cu ft of Coast of Maine Lobster Compost"

I was talking about 1 cu ft bags of Coast of Maine Lobster Compost with instructions - Work 2" into the top 5-6" of soil.
No wonder your soil runs so much hotter! I sincerely apologize for not making this connection months ago.

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DeanB said:
Another thing I've read is when using humus or compost, you should lay it on the bottom of your container and not mix it. So whatever your ratio is put your compost down then your mixed together peat and perlite.

Edit: Not sure if it would work, seems like it wouldn't drain very well, unless added gravel to the bottom.
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This might be an idea to protect the roots of a seedling in its first 2 weeks of life, as they need almost no food from the soil. But once the roots reach the compost, I would want it to be a fully mixed soil, not pure compost - for the drainage and a milder nutrition, forcing roots to keep going.

I have done plantings where I put two fistfuls of peat and perlite in the center of mixed soil and plant the seed in the peat/perlite mix. I would do this all the time if I was less lazy and remembered more often. I don't do a lot of seeds, mostly clones.
 
Ok Yankee I was looking at it like Rad was.. This is easy now.... Take my recipe... delete the Yum-Yum and compost and go with the rest of it... If you can't get the ProMix HP (and it is pricey but worth it) ask what they have that is as close to it as you can get and let me know what you end up with and we will go from there... but basically if you can get the HP follow my recipe pretty much to the letter omitting the compost and yum-yum and I honestly think you got it....:goodjob:....:circle-of-love:
 
Radogast said:
Yankeetoker, color me shocked.. we have been talking about an entirely different product !!!

That label looks like a Coast of Maine 5-2-4 calcium enriched fertilizer with instructions "Mix 1lb per 1 cu ft of Coast of Maine Lobster Compost"

I was talking about 1 cu ft bags of Coast of Maine Lobster Compost with instructions - Work 2" into the top 5-6" of soil.
No wonder your soil runs so much hotter! I sincerely apologize for not making this connection months ago.

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We actually are talking about the same thing...lol. I do have the lobster compost, but didn't feel like going out to the garage to look at the back of the bag, so I Google the info and that label came up. I just assumed it was the correct info....

What do you think of the vegan mix though as a yum yum substitute?
 
yankeetoker said:
We actually are talking about the same thing...lol. I do have the lobster compost, but didn't feel like going out to the garage to look at the back of the bag, so I Google the info and that label came up. I just assumed it was the correct info....

What do you think of the vegan mix though as a yum yum substitute?
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Well good!

I hated thinking we were both morons :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I don't know much about fertilizers. 5-2-4 vs 3-2-2 ? I'd be more concerned about salts and heavy metal components that aren't listed than the actual nutrient levels. Then there are PH questions...

About all I can say is to treat your Lobster Compost as a poor man's worm castings (we are all poor sometimes:) ) and follow a tried and tested recipe such as offered by Dennise.

Following a recipe helps you avoid pitfalls associated with bad pH levels, salts and undesirable minerals, and esoteric things like insufficient anion binding sites. I don't need to try to figure such things out myself - even if I could :rofl: :) :rofl:
 
I know you're not interested in the "numbers" and what not, but I took a look at the vegan mix and the yum yum

vegan mix NPK is 3-2-2 vs yum yum 2-1-1.....Both contain alfalfa meal, kelp meal, rock phosphate, and green sand....vegan mix also contains soybean meal, camelina meal, langbeinite, humic shale ore, and azomite.....yum yum contains cottonseed meal and trace mineral fertilizer(which in my opinion is a combo of the equivalent of langbeinite/shale ore/azomite).

They seem pretty comparable, but like you said the other concerns worry me....
 
yankeetoker said:
I know you're not interested in the "numbers" and what not, but I took a look at the vegan mix and the yum yum

vegan mix NPK is 3-2-2 vs yum yum 2-1-1.....Both contain alfalfa meal, kelp meal, rock phosphate, and green sand....vegan mix also contains soybean meal, camelina meal, langbeinite, humic shale ore, and azomite.....yum yum contains cottonseed meal and trace mineral fertilizer(which in my opinion is a combo of the equivalent of langbeinite/shale ore/azomite).

They seem pretty comparable, but like you said the other concerns worry me....
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That wasn't me that said I wasn't interested in the numbers honey... I like numbers... numbers do not lie in any situation... I can probably help with any situation if nothing else but give ya a shoulder but I can't fix a lie... Actually that is my moto... Ya can't fix a lie was drilled into my boys heads when they were really young... I digress... I do that a lot sorry for that too...but I'm just gonna tell you what I would do... I would use the vegan mix I have... it sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on that part of it.. at least as good if not better than I do.... now on the ProMix... my Chrome Depot and Blowes do not carry them... I have been told by numerous people they do but I can more than assure you in my area... and by my area I mean within a 100 miles in any direction...(I live in the boonies) I drove to a little grow shop in the big city yesterday...(120 miles round trip) to get a bale and they had to order it for me but hopefully it won't be as valuable a commodity where you are... There are other brands that will probably work and the store folks will try and sell you on their products of course but the one and only time I went with another brand I dealt with pH issues so bad I burnt one girl up and got so frustrated with it that I threw it away... again this is because I really don't know how to balance all that stuff... I was very blessed to know PeeJay pretty well before he fell off the planet and he gave me my living organic soil recipe... since that time I have grown the most beautiful girls I have ever seen and the product is beyond reproach and all I have done is add water.... I do use an essential oils spray every 3 or 4 days after 2 weeks in flower until about a week before harvest at lights off... If your interested in that let me know and I will list the essential oils for you and how to mix them and apply... it kinda pisses the plants off and causes them to put out more trichs... as that is how they defend themselves and I have actually gotten snow caps of trichromes using this foliar... Anyhow I hope this helps a bit....:circle-of-love:
 
I love the yum-yum... I ain't gonna lie about that either but it is expensive... My son just sent me a 25lb bag which will last me well over a year with the way I grow but I guess it is all relative as far as cost.... I don't really know what he is paying for it and assume he got a good deal because in the past when he has sent it he always sent it in 5lb bags... this is all in one bag... I don't mind to ask him how much he paid for it but I do know it came from High Country Gardens because that is where the box was from...:) well I looked it up and for 12lbs is $19.99 and the 25lbs is $42.95 and I think the shipping is $6.99... it is expensive IMO but I also think it is worth it but again I would use what I had first... and when you use that up maybe you will find it locally or something and try it and see which you liek best....I know they have a way you can check to see if anyone sells it locally... I know that is how PJ found it... so hopefully it will be in your area too....:circle-of-love:
 
yankeetoker said:
Dennise and Radogast:

I think this might not be a bad substitute for the yum yum mix.....what do you guys think? I like the variety of ingredients it has. Could still add some EWC, but otherwise looks like a good start.

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I like what Bobrown had to say on the Build a better soil thread. He grows fantastic stuff and knows his way around soil and integrated pest management.
 
So I went to check on the girls this morning and Lexi looks awful (all but top leaves and new growth yellowing with spots), Bernie's leaves are kinda dry feeling, but Hope looks well. All three plants are continuing to add new growth, but there is very little space between nodes (almost like bunches of little leaves growing out of the stem if that makes sense). I tried LST, but the existing branches are really not that long even though the leaves are large. Stems are very sturdy and not flexible at all.

I have been watering using the soak and top water method using water pH adjusted between 6.3-6.5. pH, temps and RH have been under control and within acceptable ranges.

I had been running lights on full spectrum, but have dialed them back to growth only for now.

I think now that all the other concerns have been addressed and the new lighting added, it has to be the space now. The LED in my space doesn't give me enough of a safe distance from the light to the plants, so I think they are burning.

After all I've been through at this point, I will continue to try to save them, but realize I need to make some upgrades...so I did.

I ordered a tent (2x4x5) and will only use my current box (2x2x2.5) for vegging moving forward (using my 200 watt CFL) and will move my Mars Hydro Reflector 48 into the tent (I hope to get another....and I also have a 150w HPS laying around).

I will use the soil I mixed per PeeJay's instructions as a starter/early veg soil and will use Dennise's bloom soil recipe (for the most part) in my final containers.

Once my tent arrives, I may just flip the older two plants and see what they do....
 
yankeetoker said:
So I went to check on the girls this morning and Lexi looks awful (all but top leaves and new growth yellowing with spots), Bernie's leaves are kinda dry feeling, but Hope looks well. All three plants are continuing to add new growth, but there is very little space between nodes (almost like bunches of little leaves growing out of the stem if that makes sense). I tried LST, but the existing branches are really not that long even though the leaves are large. Stems are very sturdy and not flexible at all.

I have been watering using the soak and top water method using water pH adjusted between 6.3-6.5. pH, temps and RH have been under control and within acceptable ranges.

I had been running lights on full spectrum, but have dialed them back to growth only for now.

I think now that all the other concerns have been addressed and the new lighting added, it has to be the space now. The LED in my space doesn't give me enough of a safe distance from the light to the plants, so I think they are burning.

After all I've been through at this point, I will continue to try to save them, but realize I need to make some upgrades...so I did.

I ordered a tent (2x4x5) and will only use my current box (2x2x2.5) for vegging moving forward (using my 200 watt CFL) and will move my Mars Hydro Reflector 48 into the tent (I hope to get another....and I also have a 150w HPS laying around).

I will use the soil I mixed per PeeJay's instructions as a starter/early veg soil and will use Dennise's bloom soil recipe (for the most part) in my final containers.

Once my tent arrives, I may just flip the older two plants and see what they do....
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I can't see what you see, but I support your analysis that a 2.5' ceiling is too low for LED growing.

200W of CFL is a plenty of light for a 2x2 space. IMO anything more is too much for veg. I veg with 216W CFL in 2.5x4' spaces.

I have almost no experience with LED, but by the numbers the 100W Mars Hdyro 48 alongside the 150W HPS would be a great amount of light for the 2x4 tent. A sturdy place to hang inside the tent and a good exhaust fan (usually with a filter) and you have a real well-balanced grow environment. You can hang your lights near the top of the tent and leave them in one place.


:bravo: I applaud your choices here. 3x the space. Good use of light. Fine soil. This is a recipe for success. :bravo:

I'm pretty sure you will be happy with your decision.
 
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