Wonderland Grow

They are growing, you just have to be patient. There's more happening under the soil in the beginning.

Bigger shoots bigger roots - pretty universal.

AUTOs are going to grow a little bit different than the PHOTO sisters.

AUTO cannabis is actually Rudaralis - it's from Russia! So there are folks growing in post communist countries for sure. Not everyone sees it as a negative over your way. I have Russian in-laws. They visit us from time to time. Hard to hide the smell in our home. They good with it.

It's medicine for many.

On the upcoming stealth thing. The sooner the better with the painting project. You should be able to put the plants in a box in the closet. I doubt landlord gonna dig into your closet. You're a good paying customer. Would be sorta silly to make you uncomfortable right?

Remember the timing the breeder lists in the advertising is a "guide". Lots of things can change that timing. But for AUTOs not as much.

I would wait to feed your plants until there's 2 or 3 TRUE leaf sets. The cotyledon (seed) has enough energy stored to get the plant going, the soil has some nutrients as well. RIght now the important thing is root growth. Is the temps at the btm of where the soil is warm or cool?? Warm is best.

For RH and temps - if you look at that chart that was posted, you will see that temps in the mid 60's F to high 70's has a very wide range for RH.

Later on things will change but for now your ambient temps and RH are fine.

Actually 40% RH and 70F is almost perfect. Too much of anything is usually bad so aim for the middle ground and all will be well.


GL you got this!
 
Guess it depends how strong your lights are too doesn't it?

Yes, for sure. And it's not just the type of light, its performance (in watts), lumens, PAR and all of these things, but I think some lights are just more intense than others. It's hard to figure it out.

I'm running a 315 watt cmh and it hasn't over streched, I've done it in the past with a 600 hps and it didn't over strech eaither

Well, it takes time to find the sweet spot. My AK seedling stretched a lot in her first week due to being exposed to very weak light. As a response, like a kind of compensation, I've put her very close under the led when my tent arrived.

Do anyone know about actual, scientifical data regarding led light distance if heat is not a problem? How close can one put these leds to the canopy? Obviously, when one has several plants, one wants to cover the canopy of all the plants. This means raising the light as high as the need for coverage dictates. But what about situations (like mine now), where there are only 2 plants, and they are still so small, that hanging the led 10 inches above them means total "canopy" coverage? Can I really stress them out this way? I mean, they are autos, growing them is not about doing everything slowly and carefully, we are on a timer!
The reason I'm asking for scientifical data is that pretty much all the different led manufacturers with all their different lights recommend very similar heights for seedling, veg and flowering stage. How is that possible, that you should put a led panel that draws 100 watts 18 inches above your plant, and at the same time, the recommendation for another led that draws 200 watts (so presumably has higher lumen output, PAR value, etc.) with almost the same coverage area should also be put at 18 inches at, let's say, in middle veg phase?
With all that said, I didn't really feel like I should follow the manufacturer's recommendation. I had in mind that until heat from the chips is not a problem (and it's absolutely not), and the light covers my two plants, I allow myself to put it as close as I can.
Maybe I should post this particular question in the FAQ section too, a ton of people watch those threads.

They are growing, you just have to be patient. There's more happening under the soil in the beginning.

Bigger shoots bigger roots - pretty universal.

AUTOs are going to grow a little bit different than the PHOTO sisters.

AUTO cannabis is actually Rudaralis - it's from Russia! So there are folks growing in post communist countries for sure. Not everyone sees it as a negative over your way. I have Russian in-laws. They visit us from time to time. Hard to hide the smell in our home. They good with it.

It's medicine for many.

On the upcoming stealth thing. The sooner the better with the painting project. You should be able to put the plants in a box in the closet. I doubt landlord gonna dig into your closet. You're a good paying customer. Would be sorta silly to make you uncomfortable right?

Remember the timing the breeder lists in the advertising is a "guide". Lots of things can change that timing. But for AUTOs not as much.

I would wait to feed your plants until there's 2 or 3 TRUE leaf sets. The cotyledon (seed) has enough energy stored to get the plant going, the soil has some nutrients as well. RIght now the important thing is root growth. Is the temps at the btm of where the soil is warm or cool?? Warm is best.

For RH and temps - if you look at that chart that was posted, you will see that temps in the mid 60's F to high 70's has a very wide range for RH.

Later on things will change but for now your ambient temps and RH are fine.

Actually 40% RH and 70F is almost perfect. Too much of anything is usually bad so aim for the middle ground and all will be well.


GL you got this!

There is nothing heating the tent from below, so the bottom of the soil isn't realy warm I guess. Dry winds hit our weather yesterday, and it will stay like this for a few days. My rh dropped from 45-50 to 40-41% yesterday. I've hung a wet towel for the night and zipped the tent for the first time. It didn't raise the humidity, not even by one percent, so yea, I have to work with what I have right now. If 40%rh and 70f is indeed good, then I'm almost perfect with the current conditions. :D

On the Russian part: I do know that people grow and smoke here too, but you know, it's just the general atmosphere, a kind of attitude toward "drugs". Believe me, there are a ton of people living here in total darkness, thinking that it's fine (especially for males) to drink and pass out on every single weekend, since that's only entertainment and letting out a bit of steam. However, these people also think that weed is a hard drug, and I think most of them associate smoking with laziness and messing up your whole life. Not to brag about my general knowledge, but there are a lot of uneducated people, that's for sure.


//

I'm leaving the office in 10 minutes, got to see the dentist, then I'm visiting my father, but finally, when I get home today evening, I will, for sure, water my ladies. The main reason for this, is that I've read through all the 19 pages of @Emilya 's how to water thread (first time I only read the first 3-4 pages), and got confirmed that autos and photos are in a totally different ballpark when it comes to watering:

As long as you are aggressively feeding/watering an auto, you could get by with some rapid successive uppotting, but as shruum suggested, you are on a time clock with an auto... and she is going to do what she wants to do, despite you concentrating on roots. There just isn't time with an auto to build a massive rootball... she builds what she needs and then moves on to building buds. I used to be in the camp that a plant is a plant is a plant, and that there was no reason to not use the successive uppotting strategy even with an auto, but after trying it a few times and seeing how anemic the root growth was and how impossible it was to get a solid rootball developed before flowering started automatically, I have changed my mind on this. I now see little use of going much larger than a 3 or 5 gallon for auto plants, and I would do exactly as you are doing now... get them a good start in a smaller container and then transplant them to the final container and call it good.

Since they are in 15l pots, and they seem like , at least to me, that they will never really fill out the whole fabric pot with a dense rootball, from now on, I won't wait too long between waterings. I think I'm actually better adding smaller amounts more frequently than floating the whole pot, and having to wait 2 weeks to totally dry out. :rolleyes:
Anyways, I'm learning new things every day, I realized it's an art to grow a plant.

See you later! :green_heart:
 
Different lights have different heights because of efficiency. E.g. quantum boards are recommended at 3t watts per square foot where as some you may want 60 or 75 watts.

Light intensity can cause the plant to grow slow in my experience. I was told to start the young ones with a 6500k 100 watt (23 actual) cfl.

Some led have a switch for colors on and off and some are completely configurable. The led world is new and not 100 percent equal across the board.
 
Lights put out heat. Best to have a small fan blowing on the plants it will lessen the heat on the leaves and also help with transpiration (plants opening stoma and letting out moisture).

Transpiration is also how the plant uptakes nutrients from the soil thru roots but you need to have moist soil. Water soluble nutrients absorb thru the roots and travel up the plant thru the vascular system. A little bit of air movement helps this process. Evaporates the moisture coming out of the leaves. Eventually it will help with RH. Also if you wanna use a towel to help with RH, aim a small fan on it.

I would water less and more often, and how I do it with the little ones. Just keep the soil moist not wet and you can let it get a little dry.

Prevet

There are un-educated people every where. I've found that the Russians I've met have far better education in general than most people. Generalization sure and I'm in Philadelphia - we have a huge eastern European community here.
 
Different lights have different heights because of efficiency. E.g. quantum boards are recommended at 3t watts per square foot where as some you may want 60 or 75 watts.

Light intensity can cause the plant to grow slow in my experience. I was told to start the young ones with a 6500k 100 watt (23 actual) cfl.

Some led have a switch for colors on and off and some are completely configurable. The led world is new and not 100 percent equal across the board.

On my next grow, I'll definitely do things differently. Yesterday I realized that I roasted the first two true leaves on my AK when I put them under the desklamp. I'll upload a few pics, compared to the new leaves, the first two looks quite sick.
Now, to be honest, when I browsed amazon and ebay for cheap grow lights, I had that idea that all of these Chinese leds are rather poor quality, that's why they're cheap. Due to this, I looked for the best true watt/$ ratio under 150$. That's how I chose this Roleadro light. I've just checked the available lights again, and I think I got one of the worst of all these Chinese lights. Take a look at these two pictures below. This is the light I bought.

It says 350μmol/s at 18".
All the other lights I checked had somewhat higher numbers than this at 18". What's a bit strange, that their 600w model, which is absolutely the same design, has higher par numbers.o_O
The only difference is that this 800w model has 256 chips, while the 600w model is shorter with only 192 chips. Their true power draw (if I can believe what's written in the description) is 190W and 132W. Price difference is 9£ (~12$).
1754086


Now look at the recommended height on the picture above. Veg 40-48inch, bloom 32-40inch.
40inch is about 1meter. Why would I put it so high if the par values are so low? They don't even provide a par value at that height :D
And then they put this picture there. How much is that from the plant, like 8 inches? :D
1754087


So all in all, I'm a bit confused about this light.

Lights put out heat. Best to have a small fan blowing on the plants it will lessen the heat on the leaves and also help with transpiration (plants opening stoma and letting out moisture).

Transpiration is also how the plant uptakes nutrients from the soil thru roots but you need to have moist soil. Water soluble nutrients absorb thru the roots and travel up the plant thru the vascular system. A little bit of air movement helps this process. Evaporates the moisture coming out of the leaves. Eventually it will help with RH. Also if you wanna use a towel to help with RH, aim a small fan on it.

I would water less and more often, and how I do it with the little ones. Just keep the soil moist not wet and you can let it get a little dry.

Prevet

There are un-educated people every where. I've found that the Russians I've met have far better education in general than most people. Generalization sure and I'm in Philadelphia - we have a huge eastern European community here.

I have my oscillating fan on 24/0. The towel didn't help much, but my rh stabilized at around 45% in the last few days, so I guess I'm ok with that.
Sadly, the explosive growth haven't happened yet. I watered both plants 3 days ago. The older one got almost the recommended amount of BioBizz Grow, and the younger (Jack Herer) got mainly plain water and then a cup of water with the nutes in it, in the end.
Both of them seem VERY small to me, and yesterday they even drooped a bit, now they don't even look healthy anymore. :( I'll upload a few pics, so you can see what I'm talking about.
I've also bought ph indicator stripes that shows ph between 5.4 and 7.0. The color sample I got shows that dark blue is about 7.0ph, and my stripe became totally blue in seconds when I tested it a day ago. I've let the water sit for a day, tested it again but it's still as blue as it can be. I don't know it might even be much more higher than 7.0, probably the stripe doesn't have a color for that. I have to get something to bring my ph down, that's for sure. What I can't decide is the kind of acid I should buy.
I see that nitric acid is better at the vegetative stage and phosphoric acid is for blooming. Should I but they two separately or am I better with Canna ph- Organic, that contains both?
I also find it strange that it seems like I can't buy them legally if they're called nitric acid or phosphoric acid. Google can't find a single product that I could buy which has one of these two words in its name. I've even read that it's restricted to only laboratories to buy these two kind of acids. But then the gardening webshop where I buy most of my stuff offers various kinds of ph- products, and all of them contains one of the above mentioned acids, their description clearly states that. It's another confusing thing :rolleyes:
By the way, what about citric acid? Much more cheaper and can be bought anywhere.

So much to say, so much to ask, my friends... :cool:
I'm cutting it here for now, I'm coming back with pictures a bit later.:green_heart:
 
I've just found this picture on amazon:
1754108

Look at those dimensions. :D:D:D:D:D
How did it even come from? :D
I think some Chinese manufacturers aren't really familiar with these units of measurement. :cool:
I think they just misplaced the decimal points, 5.9" X 3.66" seems much closer to the actual dimensions.
 
I've been finding you can put the LED much closer than the manufacturers suggest. My 600W is fine at 14" or even closer. Once you get a feel of your light you will be able to adjust the distance based on whether they are stretching too much or too little.

Here's my Amnesia at day 18 to compare...
IMG-0954.JPG Looks pretty similar to yours. It's now on day 59

I'm not expecting too much from my first grow but I bet you'll do better than me. I didn't start getting help here until a couple of weeks ago and it has already made a huge difference.
 
I've been finding you can put the LED much closer than the manufacturers suggest. My 600W is fine at 14" or even closer. Once you get a feel of your light you will be able to adjust the distance based on whether they are stretching too much or too little.

Here's my Amnesia at day 18 to compare...
IMG-0954.JPG Looks pretty similar to yours. It's now on day 59

I'm not expecting too much from my first grow but I bet you'll do better than me. I didn't start getting help here until a couple of weeks ago and it has already made a huge difference.

Regarding the shape, yours indeed looks very similar to mine on this picture. I started to realize recently that the progression of my plants are absolutely fine, it was just in my head, that they're too small.
 
Another package yesterday evening! :D

What's in it:
-7" oscillating fan with a clip
-2m ducting
-BioBizz outdoor try pack

The thing I had to realize is that the fan is not designed to be clipped onto a vertical pole. The clip is relatively large, it doesn't leave much space to adjust the fan head. Never mind, this time it came with the cable attached, at least.
The ducting is untouched, I'm still waiting for the carbon filter.

As for the BioBizz nutrients:
I only used BioBizz Grow quite lightly so far. I regretted not getting the root stimulant, but now it's too late for this run. Until two days ago, I always went below the recommended dosage with BB Grow, and had no visible problems. Well, this "recommendation" is only from the website description I purchased it from, it says 2-5ml/l. The two times I fed my girls, I gave them between 1-3ml/l.

This feeding on Sunday, I gave them about 4ml/l, which is still below the upper limit of the recommendation. It is quite difficult to properly "guess" how much is optimal for them. I have a feeling, I could have already gone a bit harder, since my soil is Plagron Lightmix, and it has a very low amount of pre-added nutrients. The manufacturer claims it's enough for 1 week. By the way, this was the first time I actually ph-ed my water. Since the ph was too high, I used vinegar, and it dropped to something between 6.2-6.7 (not so easy to determine based on colour with the ph stripe).

This try pack I purchased contains BB Bloom, BB TopMax and BB FishMix.
I wonder if any of you familiar with these products. I'll definitely use FishMix next watering, it claims to be something similar to the Grow nutrient with slightly different NPK levels, and added fish emulsion to make the soil fattier. I don't know if it's good, but, unfortunately, there's so many contradictory or ambigous information out there. BioBizz seemed like a well-known, prominent nutrient line among growers (based on posts on this forum) that I decided I will try it for my first grow. It also has an affordable price tag, which was something to consider too.

So I think I will use the Grow and FishMix together for a few weeks from now. After the first pistils are visible and the girls are done with stretching, I will decrease the level of these two, and introduce Bloom and TopMax to them. I'm not sure about TopMax yet, I have to do some research if I can give it throughout the whole flowering period.

Two more things to consider:
1, I've seen growers mention adding stuff like molasses, silica, honey, and other stuff like these at different growth phases. Would it worth for me adding any of these organic materials to my plants? I don't know too much about their effects.

2, Is there real benefit in spraying the leaves with some light nutrient mix? I've read it too, in several threads, that growers do this, but I'm not sure again, if it has any benefits. My rh is steadily between 43-48% for like a week now (apart from one night, when the max value showed 99% for both measuring points, like what the hell :rolleyes: ), so increasing humidity with spraying would not be a problem.

I'm in the office right now, planning to upload a few pics tonight.
Happy growing to all of you! :green_heart:
 
The NPK levels of these BioBizz nutrients:

Grow: 4-3-6
In the description it says the the quaranteed N content is 8% which is made of 4% NH4 and 4% NO3, so it might be 8-3-6?

FishMix: 5-1-4

Bloom: 2-7-4

For Bloom it says 0,9% NH4 and 1,1% NO3, so here 2% seems to be ok.

TopMax: 0.1-0.01-0.1
copypaste from BioBizz' website:
What is Top·Max?

There are three excellent reasons to use this 100% organic flowering strengthener. First, it contains ingredients that can help increase the actual size and weight of the flower clusters. Second, nutrient uptake is improved. And third, plants grown with Top·Max result in sweeter, smooth tasting crops. How it activates the flow of nutrients is essentially down to how it’s able to free up the minerals calcium, iron and magnesium in the soil, which stimulate the plant’s metabolism.

How to use it?

Top·Max™ can be used during the complete flowering period and works especially well combined with Biobizz substrate mixtures. In the first weeks of growth, we advise a dose of 1ml per litre of water. As harvest approaches and before flushing – when the nutrient solution is replaced with plain water to improve the taste and texture of the crop – the dose can be increased to 4ml per litre of water. Follow our feeding chart for the best results.

The benefits of humic and fulvic acids in Top·Max™

Top·Max™ is incredibly effective because of the humic acids it contains. The main source of these is an ancient substance in the soil called Leonardite. This comes from prehistoric trees and vegetation that flourished during the carboniferous period, 300 million years ago.


Fulvic acids also possess particular properties that contribute to healthy floral growth. These acids are taken from exceptionally rich sources of humate deposits found deep within the earth. Their natural electrical charge attracts nutrients and minerals present in both the microbiological soil base and applied organic fertilizers. Humic and fulvic acids work together to boost the energy in old plant cells while stimulating new ones to form.
 
I highley recommend getting a ppm meter you can really fine tune and figure out how much nute each girl can handle safely and what each of them like I've managed to get mine honed in on around 1450ppm 2.1ec and she's looking happy this morning
 

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