Utopian Submarine - 2000W, Indoor, Perpetual

[Green Utopia]

There's the rub. Just like investments, the higher the risk, the higher the return.

To some that are used to soil it's the thing that scares them away from hydro. Growing in soil can keep you from seeing problems until they become obvious. Especially for newer growers. Growing in hydro, the problems are obvious quickly and corrected almost as fast. The key here is being aware of the problem before it is uncorrectable. Like soil grows it's the experience that makes the difference.

My advice to anyone of any experience is to stay with the KISS principle and don't keep all your eggs in the same basket.

Soil and hydro both can produce awesome results.

Awesome results are usually produced by folks like myself and many others with mega-years of growing and learning "advanced techniques". Anybody that thinks that way just has to check out some of the fabulous first grows that have completed successfully in the last year. Where do you think we/they learned how to do this? Same as you. Listening to our elders. There are elders on here that are half my age or twice my age but the day they first put a bean in the ground they became Growers. Learn to read your plants and the rest is easy.

Almost everyone of those happy first growers started off by hanging around here. That's no BS, it's the truth from the LabRat. lol

I'd been growing in my own ways for decades before I showed up here last March. I'm constantly learning so much still that it totally blows me away sometimes. It's all well and good to read all the books and listen to all of us folks, but putting beans in the ground and growing a few plants for better or worse is the way you earn some cred.

Not for us, but yourself. Once you taste the first bud of the first plant you ever got to that point, you're a junkie. In a good way! If it hasn't by now obsessed your dreams it will grow soon to be an obsession.

You have been so warned and by signing below on the dotted line and accepting our terms of use you too can be liberated!
...................................... lol!

May you take your new status and spread your knowledge as we strive to do.

Sorry PaPa Green for raving on your thread but you know all about over-medication and good Jamacian rum, right?

I couldn't agree more! Seen many setups over the last twenty years, and smoked on multiple continents in many countries. But this is only my third real grow. And I am getting a slight curve ball every day. I love it.

That's also the great thing about the internet and this site in particular. We're able to see not only the successes, but also the mistakes. And often, because they're in a journal with lots of other good background for perspective, we're able to see and learn about a problem vicariously. As you say - its one thing to see it as a sentence in a book. Its another to see it develop over the course of time. And of course the 50 million different answers to each problem is a bonus.

A new grower can learn on this site in a matter of weeks what would have taken months and years before the internet. But that is still no substitute for real world training and the eye! That's why I'm so glad to have folks like yourself and the many others that pop in here to keep me on track.

 

[OldMedUser]

That's probably the nicest thing anyone's said to me in decades.

Jon Stewart's on and I gotta go!

 

[Green Utopia]

LOL - "South Carolina - you give them a chance and they keep fucking that same damn horse!" - Jon Stewart Just got done watching that episode and the one w/Bill Gates.



I have a question / discussion for folks:

Just been thinking about the fan in relation to the signs of stress I see on the plants. It is only one plant in each group and they're the one right in front of the fan. This makes sense that they are transpiring more, so the pH burn showed up faster.

The only two plants showing the stress are also dramatically the largest of their respective groups. This may be coincidence.

I don't think I could increase nutes to all the plants without getting tip burn. As you know - I've tried to find the max nutes I can give them before they show stress - and I'm running right at that point now.

I also think they are getting watered the right amount. I have seen no increase in growth if I increase the duration or frequency. And the leaves seem to have the same reach and healthyness to them.

So, I guess the question is:

Do you believe these two plants are bigger because they have been bringing more water and nutrients through themselves - transpiring? Do you think there's a way to achieve this effect without using a fan or lowering the humidity - in other words make the plants drink more? And without increasing nutrient strength or frequency of waterings?

 

[Stakkur]

*snip*
Do you believe these two plants are bigger because they have been bringing more water and nutrients through themselves - transpiring? Do you think there's a way to achieve this effect without using a fan or lowering the humidity - in other words make the plants drink more? And without increasing nutrient strength or frequency of waterings?

I saw someone do a grow where he tried to use massive O ring magnets around the base of each plant, it was still a test grow for him but he had one with the north up and another with the south up and a control.

You could se a massive diffrence in the plants after a short time wheras both plants with the magnets were bigger and healthier than the control but i cant remeber which was doing better.

Probably worth looking further into.

As has been said i always enjoy reading through your and LabRats journals, heaps of new info and knowledge every day and my itch to grow again gets stronger every day that passes

 

[Green Utopia]

I saw someone do a grow where he tried to use massive O ring magnets around the base of each plant, it was still a test grow for him but he had one with the north up and another with the south up and a control.

You could se a massive diffrence in the plants after a short time wheras both plants with the magnets were bigger and healthier than the control but i cant remeber which was doing better.

Probably worth looking further into.

As has been said i always enjoy reading through your and LabRats journals, heaps of new info and knowledge every day and my itch to grow again gets stronger every day that passes

++++++Reps! That's exactly the kind of thinking I like!

I saw that thread a few months ago - about using the magnets to encourage the heavy metals in nutes to flow faster. As I recall, you are right about the plants being bigger, but he also had too small a test group, and I think the results were highly inconclusive. Lots of folks seemed to think the magnets would just collect the heavy materials in one place after a while. Some pointed out that some folks don't use a submersible mag-drive pump for this same reason.

Great thinking outside the box.

I'm wondering if there is something like the equivalent of sprinkling salt on the plants. And I know Silica is supposed to help strengthen cell walls. Perhaps I will add a little Silica. I have some left over from a while ago.

 

[NobleWeed]

interesting.........

 

[OldMedUser]

LOL - "South Carolina - you give them a chance and they keep fucking that same damn horse!" - Jon Stewart Just got done watching that episode and the one w/Bill Gates.



I have a question / discussion for folks:

Just been thinking about the fan in relation to the signs of stress I see on the plants. It is only one plant in each group and they're the one right in front of the fan. This makes sense that they are transpiring more, so the pH burn showed up faster.

The only two plants showing the stress are also dramatically the largest of their respective groups. This may be coincidence.

I don't think I could increase nutes to all the plants without getting tip burn. As you know - I've tried to find the max nutes I can give them before they show stress - and I'm running right at that point now.

I also think they are getting watered the right amount. I have seen no increase in growth if I increase the duration or frequency. And the leaves seem to have the same reach and healthyness to them.

So, I guess the question is:

Do you believe these two plants are bigger because they have been bringing more water and nutrients through themselves - transpiring? Do you think there's a way to achieve this effect without using a fan or lowering the humidity - in other words make the plants drink more? And without increasing nutrient strength or frequency of waterings?

Hate Windoze but I think Bill is a hell of a good dude. If all the billionaires of the world were like him we really could be global brothers.

As I understand it, High temps and high humidity = slow transpiration. High temps and low humidity = rapid transpiration and possibility of nute burn as the plant will draw up more nutes than it can process.

Lower temps and high humidity can cause very slow growth as the plant can't transpire enough to get the nutes it needs to grow.

Lower temps and low humidity can be good, say 75F and 40% RH. Less chance of getting molds or bud rot than say 85F and 70% RH.

Add extra CO2, lights, pH and nute levels and it's all a crap shoot unless you can tweak everything to the plants advantage. Some days I feel like my head could explode if I don't have a hoot and slow myself down! lol

That's my 2 cents worth.

 

[Green Utopia]

Hate Windoze but I think Bill is a hell of a good dude. If all the billionaires of the world were like him we really could be global brothers.

As I understand it, High temps and high humidity = slow transpiration. High temps and low humidity = rapid transpiration and possibility of nute burn as the plant will draw up more nutes than it can process.

Lower temps and high humidity can cause very slow growth as the plant can't transpire enough to get the nutes it needs to grow.

Lower temps and low humidity can be good, say 75F and 40% RH. Less chance of getting molds or bud rot than say 85F and 70% RH.

Add extra CO2, lights, pH and nute levels and it's all a crap shoot unless you can tweak everything to the plants advantage. Some days I feel like my head could explode if I don't have a hoot and slow myself down! lol

That's my 2 cents worth.

I believe you're spot on as usual. Have you ever used Silica?

 

[OldMedUser]

I believe you're spot on as usual. Have you ever used Silica?

All the time. A dose at nute changes is lots. As I hardly ever do a nute change I will add some once every month or so after I pH balance it. Some epsom salts get added at about the same time. A tsp to a tbsp is enough of that.

Good quality nutes should have everything the plant needs but a little tweak now and then doesn't hurt. It's when you start throwing stuff in willy-nilly that problems develop.

IMHO most plant problems are from reacting before understanding all the variables that affect the plants. Even screw-ups are worth something if time is taken to understand what went wrong.

Taking baby steps is often better than diving into the deep unknown. But a leap of faith can be so much more fun! lol

Keepin' it real. :bong

 

[Green Utopia]

All the time. A dose at nute changes is lots. As I hardly ever do a nute change I will add some once every month or so after I pH balance it. Some epsom salts get added at about the same time. A tsp to a tbsp is enough of that.

Good quality nutes should have everything the plant needs but a little tweak now and then doesn't hurt. It's when you start throwing stuff in willy-nilly that problems develop.

IMHO most plant problems are from reacting before understanding all the variables that affect the plants. Even screw-ups are worth something if time is taken to understand what went wrong.

Taking baby steps is often better than diving into the deep unknown. But a leap of faith can be so much more fun! lol

Keepin' it real. :bong

Right on. I thought I remembered you saying you're a fan of the Silica. I'll get it in there next feeding. I know I've read why to put in epsom salts, but for the life of me I can't remember right now. I remember I almost used them my last soil grow, but have not thought about it in hydro. Refresh my memory please.

TIA

Man, I am so lucky to have you around to feed me info. Thanks again. BTW I did a little campaigning for you on the MOM page - I hope you don't mind.

 

[Green Utopia]

OK Folks - yet another of my crazy additions/remodels of the room being considered.

I was just reading theRootsofWisdom's journal and he too removed a scrog. He too likes the results. And my girls that are 3 weeks in flower are stretching more than I would have liked. And I'm baked.

So I have a project brewing in my head. I'm thinking of adding a trellis/semi-scrog for them. This would also bend them out of the way of the fan which would be awesome.

Its yet another emergency scrog instead of a planned one, but I really didn't mind the removal last time. And I may just decide to keep it. This is 7 plants in the same space as 3 before, so it should be far more efficient.

And there we have have it. I have managed to talk myself into it.

Gonna medicate one more time - then its off to the races. I have all the stuff I need of course from the last one.

I think you have a half hour to talk me out of it!

 

[OldMedUser]

Right on. I thought I remembered you saying you're a fan of the Silica. I'll get it in there next feeding. I know I've read why to put in epsom salts, but for the life of me I can't remember right now. I remember I almost used them my last soil grow, but have not thought about it in hydro. Refresh my memory please.

TIA

Man, I am so lucky to have you around to feed me info. Thanks again. BTW I did a little campaigning for you on the MOM page - I hope you don't mind.

Thanks for the support man. It really matters naught how it turns out. There are a lot of deserving folks on the play-bill and having buddies like you on here is worth more than any title. I have to admit that I'm not displeased by the ego massage. lol

The addition of epsom salts, MgSO4, magnesium sulphate, helps prevent the common magnesium deficiency that plagues many indoor growers. It also provides the element sulphur in a usable form. Sulphur is a critical element in the formation of amino acids and proteins. This is the element that is replaced by heavy metal contamination in plants and animals, us included, and leads to serious health problems up to and including death.

Epsom salts are cheap like borscht so to not use them is just lousy economics to me. I've thought of using Cal-Mag supplements but the benefits just don't seem to be there for me cost wise. The only deficiencies I've ever seen in my plants with AN nutes is an over-all deficiency by not feeding my plants enough. This is almost always expressed by an over-all lightening of the leaves and sad look that gets diagnosed as N deficiency but really is a deficiency of everything. All is set right by adding a balanced diet of all the nutes required for that stage of the plant's growth. A complete nute change is probably the best course of action for newer growers, but crusty old farts like myself just inject some new joy-juice and hope for the best! My odds of getting it right seem to go up as the years/grows pass.

If I can stay ahead of the MadCow all is good!

 

[OldMedUser]

I think you have a half hour to talk me out of it!

Screw that! Go for it. Head on, balls to the wall.

 

[usul]

I'm thinking of adding a trellis/semi-scrog for them. This would also bend them out of the way of the fan which would be awesome.

You already know my answer... do it! I added an emergency ScrOG to my grow when it looked like things were getting out of control and am very happy with the results. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

 

[Green Utopia]

Thanks for the support man. It really matters naught how it turns out. There are a lot of deserving folks on the play-bill and having buddies like you on here is worth more than any title. I have to admit that I'm not displeased by the ego massage. lol

The addition of epsom salts, MgSO4, magnesium sulphate, helps prevent the common magnesium deficiency that plagues many indoor growers. It also provides the element sulphur in a usable form. Sulphur is a critical element in the formation of amino acids and proteins. This is the element that is replaced by heavy metal contamination in plants and animals, us included, and leads to serious health problems up to and including death.

Epsom salts are cheap like borscht so to not use them is just lousy economics to me. I've thought of using Cal-Mag supplements but the benefits just don't seem to be there for me cost wise. The only deficiencies I've ever seen in my plants with AN nutes is an over-all deficiency by not feeding my plants enough. This is almost always expressed by an over-all lightening of the leaves and sad look that gets diagnosed as N deficiency but really is a deficiency of everything. All is set right by adding a balanced diet of all the nutes required for that stage of the plant's growth. A complete nute change is probably the best course of action for newer growers, but crusty old farts like myself just inject some new joy-juice and hope for the best! My odds of getting it right seem to go up as the years/grows pass.

If I can stay ahead of the MadCow all is good!

Roger that. That's why I've not thought about it since. I debated same as now whether I should use Epsom salts and decided I'm too new to screw with the nute chart. So 10/month on CalMag+ it is.

Re: the other yellowing. I had the same thing, and addressed it the same way. Raised the overall a little. Prob solved. I had even gone to the hydro store and gotten a N supplement. But didn't open it and ended up returning it a week later.

Thanks for the reinforcement.

Screw that! Go for it. Head on, balls to the wall.

You already know my answer... do it! I added an emergency ScrOG to my grow when it looked like things were getting out of control and am very happy with the results. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Thanks for the encouragement. Keeping myself well medicated and gonna start putting her in in about 20 minutes. Been getting the parts together and collecing my head. I find it really helps to picture the plants bent and all that before even putting in the scrog. I bend them a little and get them going in the right direction.

Also - a buddy came over and gave me a great tip on my circ fan. You guys might have seen this, but I had not or if I did never registered it. Anyways - 15 minutes on 15 minutes off. Less stress. 50% less elect. And perfect amt of movement.

OK - 3 minutes to veg lights out. Then the whole room can go green light and commence work on the scrog.


Here I go - time to pull a "Crazy Ivan" in the Sub!

 

[NobleWeed]

Im new to growing and i keep hearing SCROG mentioned and i know what it is but what is the acronym mean?

 

[Green Utopia]

Im new to growing and i keep hearing SCROG mentioned and i know what it is but what is the acronym mean?

Screen of Green. You're in the right thread my brother. Instead of a SOG where you grow lots of plants small, a SCROG does a few plants big - and horizontally.

Gonna be building one and throwing it in in the next few hours w/pics along the way.

Am taking a quick Bong Break and update then will be back at it.

All is going excellent. It is going to fit better than I could have hoped, I belieive it will be full, and it will cover the two controller buckets giving 2 more square feet of yield.

I have taken the girls out of the space:

And I have put the empty frame in place to double check fitting:

BTW - I use no glue. The legs all fold flat to get it in and out easily and its flat for storage. I really love the design of this thing. If I was one of the big CAP or GH I would make this a kit. 1/2" PVC, the fittings, feet, and the extruded nylon clothesline. cost to big manufacturer: $12 - MSRP to consumer: $ 79.99 my cost btw is under $25.

Stay Tuned - more updates along the way. Gonna weave the screen now. C ya in a few.

 

[Green Utopia]

BB and Update.

First half of the screen is woven. There are more knots than last time cause of the cuts when I removed the line from the last one. So far so good though. Now to weave the other direction. Gonna make these a little bigger cause the plants are pretty tall and I don't want to break anything getting them in there.

 

[Green Utopia]

SCROG done. The lines are woven. Not the neatest one I've ever done, but she'll work just fine methinks.

Now to put the plants in.

 

[onthe420train]

Nice screen now you get to sit back and watch it fill with budulars!