Twelve12's Breeding Program

[Twelve12]

{ Firestorm's Roots }​

Firestorm has the best roots development I've ever seen. This is just 7 days in the DIY Aero cloner. This is a clone (from plant #4) just been placed in bloom to determined sex. Hoping for a female. Already has the male for this strain.

 

[jandre2k3]

{ Firestorm's Roots }​

Holy schnikeys! Nice roots! Which hormone did you use? and that's only 7 days.

 

[Twelve12]

No hormone were used. Plain tap water in DIY Aero cloner. I think massive roots structure within 7 days is due to genetic and GLR (Gas Lantern Routine) light cycle combined. Can't wait for some bud formation (if it's a female) after all it is a cross between Pineapple Express x Grapefruit Diesel.

 

[Steve McStoferson]

I'd give most of the credit to the aero, mine look like that after 7 days too

 

[ThaRealTreJay]

Impressive strain compilation, and nice environment so it seems. I'd like to see some pics of your facility. Growing from seed is gonna be my new thing lol, now you your gonna be producing seeds!

Good Luck!

 

[Twelve12]

TheCrimsonK20~ The aero is great, when growing multiple strain I noticed not all strains has this much roots development in short amount of time. While Firestorm took 7 days many other strains took 12-14. I also noticed the AK, SLH, also develop fast.

ThaRealTreJay ~ Thank you. I'll have some pics up soon that will showcase the entire room. Still in the process of remodeling the place. Growing from seed is not too bad. Most strains offer the first cutting after 15 days from seeds, then 7-14 more days before the clone have enough roots for bloom. From start to finish in 2.5-3 months. Most of the mother plants are from seeds. Unstable strains require growing more out than one seeds to pick the best plant to be mother. Since I don't have a large space to grow I'm trying to produce while at the same time breed. Keeping one male per cycle helps to know who the father is for any accidental new cross.

 

[ThaRealTreJay]

cuttings, as in taking clones 15 days after they sprout Basically topping huh?

 

[Steve McStoferson]

TheCrimsonK20~ The aero is great, when growing multiple strain I noticed not all strains has this much roots development in short amount of time. While Firestorm took 7 days many other strains took 12-14. I also noticed the AK, SLH, also develop fast.

ThaRealTreJay ~ Thank you. I'll have some pics up soon that will showcase the entire room. Still in the process of remodeling the place. Growing from seed is not too bad. Most strains offer the first cutting after 15 days from seeds, then 7-14 more days before the clone have enough roots for bloom. From start to finish in 2.5-3 months. Most of the mother plants are from seeds. Unstable strains require growing more out than one seeds to pick the best plant to be mother. Since I don't have a large space to grow I'm trying to produce while at the same time breed. Keeping one male per cycle helps to know who the father is for any accidental new cross.

yeah i noticed the same thing, but also the plants maturity plays a huge role.. The first time I cloned SLH it took about 2 weeks for roots to show, now as the genes are getting older, they fully root within 7 days. I am noticing the same with my new strains that are cloning.

 

[Twelve12]

ThaRealTreJay ~ You got it. Just topped C99 and will see how fast it roots give an take in about 2 weeks we'll flower her out. Since this is a fast finish strain perfect for the 2L SOG and will finish end of December.

TheCrimsonK20 ~ Good point. Maturity is very important. Right now I'm trying out cuttings from seed after 15 days from sprout to see how fast they take roots. Got the C99 in the aero since yesterday will check back in 6 days. Strains with fast roots development is a good sign. Will feed the 2L SOG much faster, and if the strain finishes fast we'll party non-stop.

 

[ThaRealTreJay]

Thanks Twelve12,
I'll implement that technique in one of these times! I just finished my first grow!
(Link in Sig)
need help deciding what strain to submit for nug of the month Nov.

 

[R2MNot]

Hey 12,
I'm sure you have seen granny's thread on CS. I ordered a bottle of the magic juice and plan to play around with it....If this works as advertised wouldn't it greatly simplify the breeding process In that you no longer need to deal with male genetics...Wouldn't a self pollinated female be an instant pheno lock. You can still do cross strain breeding and get stable pheno's in one generation....you could never produce a male seed...but who cares...with the ability to turn any female male there is no need for a male seed anyway.
Your thoughts?

 

[jandre2k3]

...you could never produce a male seed…but who cares…with the ability to turn any female male there is no need for a male seed anyway.
Your thoughts?

As far as "Never producing a male seed", that is untrue. While it's no longer 50/50 there is still a reduced risk of getting males.

Hey 12,
I’m sure you have seen granny’s thread on CS. I ordered a bottle of the magic juice and plan to play around with it….If this works as advertised wouldn’t it greatly simplify the breeding process In that you no longer need to deal with male genetics…Wouldn’t a self pollinated female be an instant pheno lock. You can still do cross strain breeding and get stable pheno’s in one generation….

While it seems that would be true, there are inherent traits, that remain recessive in every plant. With self-pol you run the risk if passing 2 of that recessive gene (1 from flower - 1 from pol) into the seed. While it is less likely, with an F1, it is still an unstable cross and it's more likely than with an established phenotype. The recessive gene has a 50% chance to still be there in the gene set, but overpowered by the dominant or wanted gene and called dormant... This could result in unwanted results in the seed and thus producing a manifestation of that recessive gene in the resulting plant. Good question, though.

On the first page of this thread:

...Yes, inbreeding will help establish uniformity. The gene pool from P1 in F1-F3 is still vital. Back-crossing can also increase the percentage in offspring with desired traits from progeny.

But, it still remains that in F1-F3, even through to F5 that in a batch of seeds there will be some selection and culling to be done to reduce the unwanted and maximize the wanted.


And I'm sure that Twelve12 will have some to add.

 

[R2MNot]

You sooo popped my bubble, I thought I was going to make a quick trip out of a long journey LOL

I have been under the impression self pollination seed (stressed or hermi-trait) can only be female because they lack the chromosome required to create a male...this must not be the case with CS treated females...where do they pick up the missing chromosome?

 

[Twelve12]

ThaRealTreJay ~ Early cuttings is not recommended for single plant grow. I use it to determined if the strain is worth growing so early results helps saves resources. I'm checking out your grow.

R2MNot ~ Using CS to create feminized seeds and to lock in the mother's pheno/geno if the pollination from the female is self-pollinated or to its clone. You can then continue the feminized seed factory pumping out exact copy of the mother plant. If the mother strain itself is stable the feminized seeds should also be stable, if the mother plant is not then the seed will present some variations but not too much that it's like F2 seeds...

Use CS to get feminized seeds with exact DNA from the mother plant. Normal pollination with female x male is to get variations and to fine tune the genetics so the breeder have a special plant that is better than the parents if not the progeny is rejected. DJ Short said “The progeny must equal or surpass its parent in overall qualityand desirability to be considered for future breeding.”

jandre2k3 ~ I have not explore the area of creating feminized seeds but it should be 100% female since the female pollen sack only contain the female chromosome. Unless of course the mother plant is a hidden hermie (activated upon small to high environmental stress) which will then create the highest percentage of hermie, follow by female, then male with the lease %.

F1 usually is uniform exhibit dominant traits. F2 and beyond exhibit both dominant and recessive. F2 is where we make selections and go on to get F3 and beyond to see more of the spectrum of genetics within the pool available for that particular cross. That's what I understand so far from reading all the available materials. I'm still at F1 in the process of creating F2 and unlocking the varieties.

 

[jandre2k3]

You sooo popped my bubble, I thought I was going to make a quick trip out of a long journey LOL

I have been under the impression self pollination seed (stressed or hermi-trait) can only be female because they lack the chromosome required to create a male...this must not be the case with CS treated females...where do they pick up the missing chromosome?

As with all life, nothing is guaranteed, especially in offspring. While it is true that XX*XX = XX and therefore the possibility of XY is, as a whole, ruled out, the possibility exists that the female plant of that line, being created through stress, (and yes, CS is stressing the plant, suppressing the female hormone so the male flowers will bloom) will have a higher possibility, albeit a very small one, that a female plant will flower as a male (more likely they will show hermaphroditic traits) and effectively be a male while still genetically being a female. Having said that, yes, through a watchful eye, and careful daily grooming, the short answer to your earlier question is, "Yes there will be 100% female plants," but in truth, it is so much more complicated than that. Which is why I responded to the contrary in my answer above.

I guess I should have gone ahead and explained that then, but I didn't think about explaining it in full. No there will not be males, but those females could still self/cross pollinate each other by creating the hermi flowers which will need to be watched for if you're wanting product to consume.

 

[R2MNot]

Thanks for the input guys...

the possibility exists that the female plant of that line, being created through stress ...

This is true for all cannabis regardless of propagation method

(and yes, CS is stressing the plant, suppressing the female hormone so the male flowers will bloom) will have a higher possibility, albeit a very small one, that a female plant will flower as a male (more likely they will show hermaphroditic traits)

So the trade off to a fast pheno lock is more chance for hermi than "natural propagation method"?...1 in 4...1 in 8...1 in 100 ???

2 Clones from the same mother plant...one treated with CS...pollen collected and used to seed the other clone....The resulting seed will be genetically identical to the mother plant...a clone packed into seed format. True Or False

 

[Twelve12]

True. Genetically they are identical.

 

[Twelve12]

ATA Tundra

We're getting close to breeding time. ATA Tundra showed sex and is a male. I got 2 clones going to make sure there are enough pollen for the entire tent. Yes, I'm breeding all the available females in the flowering tent with ATA Tundra.

Current Females:
Heavy Duty Fruity
Afghan Kush
1024
Cheese
Pineapple Express
Grape God
Vanilla Kush
Super Lemon Haze
Firestorm
Downtown Stumble

For the breeding program this is what I have in mind...

Use 2 clones from one male plant to pollinate the entire tent every 4 months. This way there is no accidental cross with multiple male plants. So any seeds I get from the cycle is from the known male. Using this shotgun method will allow me to obtain many new different strains at once. Good to obtain some F1 seeds from all females. My quest for 1 million seeds is on.

Selective breeding is up next and will uses a more control method.

 

[jandre2k3]

Re: ATA Tundra

We're getting close to breeding time. ATA Tundra showed sex and is a male. I got 2 clones going to make sure there are enough pollen for the entire tent. Yes, I'm breeding all the available females in the flowering tent with ATA Tundra.

Current Females:
Heavy Duty Fruity
Afghan Kush
1024
Cheese
Pineapple Express
Grape God
Vanilla Kush
Super Lemon Haze
Firestorm
Downtown Stumble

For the breeding program this is what I have in mind...

Use 2 clones from one male plant to pollinate the entire tent every 4 months. This way there is no accidental cross with multiple male plants. So any seeds I get from the cycle is from the known male. Using this shotgun method will allow me to obtain many new different strains at once. Good to obtain some F1 seeds from all females. My quest for 1 million seeds is on.

Selective breeding is up next and will uses a more control method.

Heavy Duty Fruity x ATA Tundra = fruitATA!

 

[Twelve12]

Not sure what ATA stands for. I like your cross name; fruitATA! :}

For this cross visually I see "Frozen Amazon".