"I'm also taking in consideration I have first hand experience with both Anredera and savila, and as you mentioned savila has %3+/- of saponins. I have seen the effects of both savila and Anredera, while you have only read that journal. "
Are you conjecturing that I have never touched an aloe plant? And that journal is by far, not the only thing i have read about Anredera. I basically spent my entire day doing research on this topic.
"Part of the reason why I insist on that elevated percentage is because I know the anredera plant and have had contact with the tubers. "
Observations of "goo" don't hold any concrete evidence in my mind. Lot's of plants are gooey as phlem, including the inside of an aloe spear (I have opened hundreds of them). Yucca on the other hand, isn't that gooey at all yet contains twice as much saponin as aloe. Saponin production in the world, mainly comes from the saponaria tree (saopbark tree), second comes aloe, third comes yucca. Don't you think people would have figured out this wonderful source of saponin (at almost "ten times" the amount as the largest known plant producer of saponin in the plant kingdom)? That there would be volumes of knowledge on it as there is with the soapbark tree and aloe? TONS of plants contain saponin anyway. To name some surprising ones: ginseng, maples, horse chestnuts, spinach. So it's not like humans haven't been testing plants for their saponin content for a while now. I think Anredera would have been discovered long ago as the best saponin producing plant there is.
"You assume they can't have such a high content of saponins because then there would be no space for vascular en skeletal tissue"
The only assumption that I've made during the length of this conversation is that when Sri Murni Astuti says both % and mg/g in reference to the same number, that he/she means mg/g because he/she has written it in those, specific, terms in the abstract. By my math, we are both making assumptions based on these three bits of ambiguous information.
"(plants don't have skeletal tissue)"
The cells that are stacked on one another to form tiny tubes from the end of the root to tips of the leaves - That's the skeleton of the plant. Since plants don't have an actual carbon skeleton, we can safely call the dermal tissue, ground tissue, and vascular tissue the skeleton of the plant. What's a piece of wood if it's not part of a plant skeleton?
"but the assumption is flawed because the inside of the tubers is comprised almost exclusively of goo. As I mentioned I can send you the samples so you can see by yourself. The tubers are only comprised of a thin bark and gelled goo inside."
Already went over this.
I would like a sample to send to the chromatography lab. I will PM you.
"Also, you used that article as a source to back that claim twice,"
I know, my mistake. They were two different websites.
" but in the article he refers to percentages and never weights."
That's the disputed fact lol.
"If you blended a cup of Anredera and added the resulting paste to a bucket of water you would just how impressive the result is... The only thing of similar thickness and gooeyness that comes to my mind is phlegm. You wouldn't get the same results with Aloe, which supposedly has almost 10 times more saponins."
I'm not convinced the goo has anything to do with it. What has you convinced that the more gooey it is, the more saponin is in it? I can't deny the fact that your bucket bubbled over, but the amounts you used in that experiment far exceed any amounts that I tested with yucca when I did the froth test to test for qualitative amounts of saponin in yucca.
"Edit: I'm not mad because of our discussion, and you will always be welcome in my journal. Part of my faith is finding the truth, no matter what the cost is. The thruth is that Anredera might as well be the plant with the highest saponin content, I may be wrong. I guess I would have to post a video of how the water turns after adding Anredera."
That's perfectly fine Roach. I appreciate that. I'm not mad either. I'm glad you are obviously a cool, calm, and collected individual. I haven't looked very deeply into "the froth test", but if you can find a source that describes setting up a froth test to qualitatively test for saponins in a plant material, that has a decent set of unambiguous numbers to describe the set up (amount of water, weight of test material, amount of oxygen being delivered to the water, observation time lengths), then I will be happy to do a comparison test with the yucca. But, just throwing a handful of the stuff into a bubbling bucket, doesn't seem like the best way to present your proof.
you guys ok?! I would hate to see two guys I both hold in high esteem get disgruntled over some goo!
