TheBlaze: Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 1

Blaze i feel your pain.Hopefully it will bounce back without any issues.you recon you will stay at normal veg time or would you stretch your days a bit?

Intresting observation on the EM pro.i would nt have thought it to be the culprate either.well lets hop for the best and that the magnesuim is a shortage and not a build up.

Good luck

Sent from my GT-I9500 using 420
 
Laank Dank said:
Blaze i feel your pain.Hopefully it will bounce back without any issues.you recon you will stay at normal veg time or would you stretch your days a bit?

Intresting observation on the EM pro.i would nt have thought it to be the culprate either.well lets hop for the best and that the magnesuim is a shortage and not a build up.

Good luck

Sent from my GT-I9500 using 420
Click to expand...

Yeah, the obvious pH issues I'm having can't be ignored anymore. Transplanting into bigger pots won't do that, and if you remove that from the equation then the obvious choice is the EM-prosoil. After thinking about it some more, it made more sense. So today I will mix a calmag solution with a higher pH. Around 6.4 instead of the usual 5.8 I normally make it. I will run just enough through the pots to get about 2 - 300ml of runoff and then let them dry out for 2 days. There will be no nutes in the solution. I will also measure pH of runoff just to confirm my suspicions.

I will probably let them veg a little longer, just until I see them on the mend properly.
 
Perfectionists at work here lol. Yeah man, they aren't up to your normal standards, but you'll get em fixed. I. :Namaste:

I'll just throw it out there, as I know what you got going on, and I know we're both a bit crazy when it comes to the slightest bent leaf. :) It's also better to get a bunch of people looking at it giving opinions, than not. I'm more of a soil/coco guy though, so take it for what it's worth.

Medium pH is off by maybe .75 or more. Doesn't look too far off, they would show fast in pure coco. Probably over-concentrated with the nutrient as well, which literally gets in the way of others. Looks like a few micros are off, and the start of K maybe.

Assuming mild-ish pH issue, low. You could flush, but that's last resort for me. If you don't feel that they are that bad, maybe try front-loading them. It's what I do with fabric when I have some buildup, or unknown issues. I did this very same thing with Roots Uprising, adding a bit too much, had to wait and front-load with water.

If you do normally water to get >15% runoff, use 75% of your normal volume of irrigation as a water only first (or add dripclean or surfectant), and then follow it without without waiting, with same volume of your normal feed solution/nutes, for a total of 150% of your norm. Even if it's just a water only day in your schedule, they should still get nutrient, unless they in bad shape or are on life support. ;)

If you do not normally get >15% runoff, use 100% and 100% volumes, for 200% of your norm.
If pH is low, use the water to move it up by making it .5pH above where you normally feed. Reverse as needed, or use higher values to correct severe imbalances. Slurry test one plant if needed.

The thinking is that the water first irrigation should wet the roots with pure water first, keeping them from being hit with nutes while dry, and should flush some of the salt/dry channels out. The water will start to concentrate at the bottom, only to be flushed out, and replaced with your nutrient solution.

Take this from a soil growers perspective too, I'm only maybe 25% coco. You got this, you always do man. I beleaf. :high-five:
 
You speak sense brother. :thumb:

I will try your method of water first and then nutes. Interesting logic and way of doing it. As I said above... you speak sense.

Thanks for taking the time to help out bud. It is appreciated.

Let's get these girls, and 2 boys, back in shape. :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
Man I wish I had you defs, they'd be the healthiest plants I've grown :rofl: your on it bro.. :passitleft:
 
LOL! I think maybe they look a little worse than the photos might show. Thanks Grizz!
 
:rofl: Just going to give the dudes a day or 2 longer to be 100% sure, but that is just a formality. Can see the tiny little nutsacks already. It is the 2 lanky mofos at the back.
 
So I tested the runoff on 2 of the plants. One was 6.1 and the other was 6.0. Dafuq?!
 
TheBlaze said:
So I tested the runoff on 2 of the plants. One was 6.1 and the other was 6.0. Dafuq?!
Click to expand...

Then it's about .5 over, not under. Same thing, just use the water to move the medium's pH. Irrigate with water at 5.4 ish, then feed...what do you normally run, 5.8? I would definitely feed them too. Lower pH, and they are hungry.
 
Yeah, but 6 or 6.1 is well within acceptable range. It shouldn't cause the problems I'm seeing surely? I usually water/feed at 5.8
 
I would say anything between 5.6 and 6.3 is good. In fact, I usually let my pH swing between these figures. Something else is happening here. There is one other major change in how I normally grow... My environment.

Do you guys think a lack of c02 might cause this? It is not a sealed room but then again, it is not far off. With the extractor fan not running, due to the negative pressure it creates, I don't think there is enough air exchange happening.

We are going to plumb a car filter into one of the walls, so that the room can pull more air when the extractor is running.
 
I'm reading that testing runoff in coco is not a very accurate way of determining what the pH is inside the medium. I've read this before now that I think of it. Something to do with CEC or something like that.

Sigh...
 
UPDATE

Day 33

A few of the plants look like they are trying to recover. It must be something in the environment, as they were all healthy when they were being grown at my house. Within a week of being at the new site, they have deteriorated badly. The fact that the pH is stable also lends itself to that.

My brother asked if it was a good idea for the plants to be sitting on polystyrene. We did some googling, and lo and behold... polystyrene contains some pretty toxic chemicals which are potentially hazardous. So I removed the polystyrene and put mylar down on the ground. I also moved the lights a bit higher.

I see I have some strange grey looking flies sitting on the fabric pots. They are bigger than fungus gnats by quite a margin, but a bit smaller than normal house flies. Anyone know what they are?? I will get some neem tomorrow and spray the plants down. I need to start tackling these problems aggressively.

We plumbed in the air filter as an intake to try and combat the negative pressure I get when the main extractor fan is running. It has helped by about 50%. Less than what I was hoping for. Oh well. Also, I finally figured out how to set the sleep function on the AC so now minimum temps are only 19.5 deg C. Much better. I can live with that.

The healthier looking plants below are both Exodus Kushes. They will be flipped on Tuesday. The photos of them were taken on friday, so they are bigger now. The last photo was taken this morning after the work I did.

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FWIW...I've seen fabric pots on foam discs in a 8K concrete floor basement setup, while helping a friend ;) and the plants had no issues.

It was insulation foam, you could have a completely different material. VOCs from plastics/tents can certainly be toxic. I've seen some pics of the damage of VOCs from tents, and don't remember them looking like that, where the new growth was mostly affected. If the plant was breathing it in, it should affect it more evenly I would think, not just new growth...?

Air exchange is certainly needed, but there is a TON of volume in that room, so bringing in a bit of air should suffice to have them look better than that. Maybe part of the problem, but not the primary issue imo. That basement was sealed at times, no C02, and they barely flagged at all.

I don't coco, but for your medium, you may be able slurry test. Might be worth looking into to see if that is your issue. Run-off is only reliable if you know what it should be, strain, amount of input to run-off, pH & PPM historics etc. Slurry test should get close to real pH.

You could move one plant to the old spot to see what happens.

You could just flush them all now too.

Check your pH pen, versus paper test or some other read, and check the temp of your water going in, pH may drift up with temp rise....dunno, just seen it before, didn't know why.

Still looks like an issue in the medium to me. Maybe flush one plant now to see if it helps new growth. While you watch that one, look at every single thing till you figure it out. I still think something is pushing out availability, or they are hungry. I'll keep checking in brother... hope others do too. Don't be afraid to speak up y'all... :circle-of-love:
 
Thanks so much for the input guys! I really appreciate it. Ok, I'm going to flush them on Tuesday then. I'm also going to use some form of pest control because I've seen quite a few of those funny looking flies. Could be aphids, which would make sense as I've seen quite a few black ants in the room as well. They usually go hand in hand.

pH pen gets calibrated once a week, and is only ever 0.1 out.

Imtoasted... I agree it definitely looks like an iron deficiency. Which would also explain why there is some green creeping back into the leaves. Strangely, it actually makes the plant look worse even though it would indicate they are trying to recover.

It's just very hard for me to swallow that I have such a bad lockout. I've grown this way many times, and never had such issues. Maybe the batch of coco I'm using is shit. I don't bother to do an initial flush. I probably should have.

Again... thanks guys!
 
It is also possible when you moved them something unknown could have gotten into the soil, just read about that. It said even a change in environment can cause the plants to stress and not take up certain nutes, kind of like soil lockout.

Good idea to take care of those pests as well. I think your ph is good just the environment you put the plants in pissed em off a little lol they will acclimate and should be fine soon.. these plants bounce back so quickly once you fix the problems you are good to go.

300W LED 2x4x5 Tent Soil Grow
 
I know some growers enjoy tacking these sorts of problems. Not me! Fuck that shit. :rofl: Give me a perfect grow from start to finish thanks. Oh well...

I have some leftover ludwigs insect spray. Think I will just use that. It is a combination of canola oil, garlic and natural pyrethrins. It is fucken foul stuff though. :yikes:

Should I also spray the top of the medium before watering so that it can soak into the medium??
 
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