The Living Medicine Cabinet

[Scarfinger68]

Any air movement to help keep her strong? Bury her deeper at transplant? More training to keep the canopy even? Of course no training now. But, something to consider for later.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Any air movement to help keep her strong? Bury her deeper at transplant? More training to keep the canopy even? Of course no training now. But, something to consider for later.

Ya I think C'99 might not have been planted deep enough because it tilts from time to time. I do turn the fan on periodically, but she was starting to really lean so I haven't had it on in a couple days.

This grow will be scrogged. V-Scrog to be specific. Once they fill out their cups they are getting transplanted into a larger 10 gallon where they will be trained. I would like to be able to top them when they are still in the cups. I think once they are clear of the seedling stage and into proper veg I will turn the light cycle to 18/6 until flower.

 

[Radogast]

You can add 1/2 inch of soil to the c'99 cup to help her stand up.
It really shouldn't be a problem unless you uproot her while adding the soil.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

You can add 1/2 inch of soil to the c'99 cup to help her stand up.
It really shouldn't be a problem unless you uproot her while adding the soil.

Yes sir I'll probably be doing that real soon.

 

[Scarfinger68]

Ya I think C'99 might not have been planted deep enough because it tilts from time to time. I do turn the fan on periodically, but she was starting to really lean so I haven't had it on in a couple days.

This grow will be scrogged. V-Scrog to be specific. Once they fill out their cups they are getting transplanted into a larger 10 gallon where they will be trained. I would like to be able to top them when they are still in the cups. I think once they are clear of the seedling stage and into proper veg I will turn the light cycle to 18/6 until flower.

Only a suggestion... I would have the fan on all the time. If the breeze is to stiff, point the fan away from them so that they get the secondary breeze bouncing off the wall. Just so its barely noticeable will help in the long run.

A breeze will help make a strong stem. Also when you transplant her... put her a little deeper in the next pot. Like Rad said... Your basically just adding some soil up the stem, now and later maybe if she needs it.

 

[Radogast]

Only a suggestion... I would have the fan on all the time. If the breeze is to stiff, point the fan away from them so that they get the secondary breeze bouncing off the wall. Just so its barely noticeable will help in the long run.

A breeze will help make a strong stem. Also when you transplant her... put her a little deeper in the next pot. Like Rad said... Your basically just adding some soil up the stem, now and later maybe if she needs it.

I have my fan on all the time to keep fresh air around my plants. The air exchange helps the leaf pores inhale and exhale.

I think a fan breeze does a better job discouraging flying pests than it does strengthening stems.

Whatever the reasons, a fan that moves air around the leaves is a good thing

 

[Scarfinger68]

I have my fan on all the time to keep fresh air around my plants. The air exchange helps the leaf pores inhale and exhale.

I think a fan breeze does a better job discouraging flying pests than it does strengthening stems.

Whatever the reasons, a fan that moves air around the leaves is a good thing

Obviously there is a difference in genetics. One plant being short and the other stretching. But, it is very common reference in the cannabis community that wind and stem strength are related.

Ok... Going to throw some science up in here:

From the "Oxford Journals" "Experimental Botany"

The effects of air flow and stem flexure on the mechanical and hydraulic properties of the stems

Wind has 2 functions:

1. Air flow
2. Flexure

They have opposite effects on the plant:

It was found that flexure and air flow had opposite effects on several aspects of development;

Air flow:

air flow increased plant height and length‐specific stem hydraulic conductivity, kh, and reduced stem rigidity and strength

Flexure does the opposite:

decreases plant height and increased stem rigidity and strength

A major difficulty with understanding the effects of wind on plants is that it acts not as a single stimulus, but has two quite different effects: it increases the air flow past the leaves and it mechanically stimulates the plant, in particular flexing the stem.

So for optimal growth you need both. Only having one leads to tall skinny plants or to much wind/flexure retards the plant growth

I take my thin sproutlets and shake them from side to side.

I don't want to piss anyone off.... So I will drop the subject and conclude with...

Do what works for you my friend

 

[Radogast]

Obviously there is a difference in genetics. One plant being short and the other stretching. But, it is very common reference in the cannabis community that wind and stem strength are related.

Ok... Going to throw some science up in here:

From the "Oxford Journals" "Experimental Botany"



Wind has 2 functions:

1. Air flow
2. Flexure

They have opposite effects on the plant:



Air flow:

Flexure does the opposite:



So for optimal growth you need both. Only having one leads to tall skinny plants or to much wind/flexure retards the plant growth

I take my thin sproutlets and shake them from side to side.

I don't want to piss anyone off.... So I will drop the subject and conclude with...

Do what works for you my friend

+reps to you for actual science.

While I have often seen it stated that a fan strengthens the main stem, this is the first attempt to offer real science.

My 'gut feeling' is that wind forces that strengthen stems are beneficial only to seedlings. A wind strong enough to 'tone' a pencil thick trunk would also tend to deform branches and mess with leaf surfaces ability to uptake light. Did that article mention wind forces? If so, I will look for it.

I, for one, will be pissed at no one except myself if my most sacred ideas are overturned by scientific experiment.

 

[PTSD 4 ME]

We have very similar grows going on.... Stages are similar space is also similar. Hope you don't mind if I tag along.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Added a bit more soil to C99 and she is standing straight up. I also have my fan on again. Now everyone's happy.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

+reps to you for actual science.

While I have often seen it stated that a fan strengthens the main stem, this is the first attempt to offer real science.

My 'gut feeling' is that wind forces that strengthen stems are beneficial only to seedlings. A wind strong enough to 'tone' a pencil thick trunk would also tend to deform branches and mess with leaf surfaces ability to uptake light. Did that article mention wind forces? If so, I will look for it.

I, for one, will be pissed at no one except myself if my most sacred ideas are overturned by scientific experiment.

We need to get everyone on the same page with this.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

We have very similar grows going on.... Stages are similar space is also similar. Hope you don't mind if I tag along.

Glad to have you around, friend.

 

[Scarfinger68]

+reps to you for actual science.

While I have often seen it stated that a fan strengthens the main stem, this is the first attempt to offer real science.

My 'gut feeling' is that wind forces that strengthen stems are beneficial only to seedlings. A wind strong enough to 'tone' a pencil thick trunk would also tend to deform branches and mess with leaf surfaces ability to uptake light. Did that article mention wind forces? If so, I will look for it.
I, for one, will be pissed at no one except myself if my most sacred ideas are overturned by scientific experiment.

wind tunnel experiments have shown that relative growth rate is often maximized at wind speeds below 1 m s–1, falling in still air or at higher speeds (Wadsworth, 1959).

I am no scientist but I think they are saying with no wind they fall down and then with to much wind they also fall down.

Most wind‐exposed plants also exhibit reduced shoot extension (Whitehead, 1962; Lawton, 1982) and changes in the morphology and mechanics of their stems and roots, but the effects vary with species. Many herbs develop stiffer stems containing more mechanical tissue (Grace and Russell, 1977), while trees show increases in the amount of secondary wood they lay down, producing thicker trunks and roots (Jacobs, 1954; Lawton, 1982; Telewski and Jaffe, 1986; Stokes et al., 1995). This ‘flexure wood’, though, is more flexible than normal wood, having high microfibrillar angles and spiral grain (Telewski, 1989). Most of these changes make adaptive sense as they should reduce the plant’s susceptibility to mechanical damage

Also they do mention that too much wind can slow growth and leaf development.

However, strong winds may actually reduce photosynthesis both because of direct and indirect effects; wind will cool the leaves and reduce their effective area by causing them to curl up; and the stomata may shut to reduce water loss, so increasing resistance to entry of carbon dioxide into the leaf.

I found this article very interesting. Sounds like wind encourages a stronger, wider root system:

"A comparative study of the response of the roots and
shoots of sunflower and maize to mechanical stimulation
A.M. Goodman1 and A.R. Ennos
School of Biological Sciences, Stopford Building, University of Manchester, Oxford Road,
Manchester M13 9PT, UK
Received 12 December 1995; Accepted 15 May 1996"

Root systems of mechanically stressed sunflowers had a greater angle of spread and increased root number. As well as large morphological and weight effects, with increases over the control of 33% in the length of rigid root and 38% in the dry weight of lateral roots, in sunflowers, there were also mechanical effects. In both species roots of flexed plants were more rigid, stronger and composed of stiffer material and their root systems also provided greater anchorage strength.

One caveat... Most these studies are on sunflowers, wheat, herbs and trees. Not to many studies on Schedule 1 Drugs/plants/cannabis.

 

[Happy Hemper]

At the tree nursery we placed structures around the saplings, think tomato cage, to prevent the wind from bending them over but allow them to sway in the breeze. Before long the young trees could take the average elements without issue. When I grew our beloved outdoors I would go around and wiggle each plant until their stems were strong enough to remain upright.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Good discussion everyone!

Airflow is a good thing, but keep in mind with my space being small that a little breeze goes a long way. There's alot more evaporation of moisture from the soil and air. My last grow I even had leaves which twisted and were slightly deformed because off too much of even an indirect breeze. So, with all the things you are saying, I strongly agree. BUT I need to be careful of what is too much. With my little space things can get out of hand alarmingly fast.

Just something to think about while you guys are watching.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Whew, caught up again! I turned my back for way too long there, and missed some interesting debate too.
Re the long past rabbit manure discussion. Yes rabbit manure is about the only kind you can put directly in the garden. The reason being that bunnies digest their food very well. In fact they digest it twice. The first run through it comes out as a pellet of grass/plant matter and they eat it and digest it more the second time. Yes, a little known fact, bunnies eat poo! I have several and have watched them doing it - direct from the dispenser so to speak. But they are very cute so I look past it.
Anyway, glad I'm caught up again. Things are looking good

 

[Scarfinger68]

Good discussion everyone!

Airflow is a good thing, but keep in mind with my space being small that a little breeze goes a long way. There's alot more evaporation of moisture from the soil and air. My last grow I even had leaves which twisted and were slightly deformed because off too much of even an indirect breeze. So, with all the things you are saying, I strongly agree. BUT I need to be careful of what is too much. With my little space things can get out of hand alarmingly fast.

Just something to think about while you guys are watching.

Sounds like you have a handle on it. Thanks for allowing the discussion.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Whew, caught up again! I turned my back for way too long there, and missed some interesting debate too.
Re the long past rabbit manure discussion. Yes rabbit manure is about the only kind you can put directly in the garden. The reason being that bunnies digest their food very well. In fact they digest it twice. The first run through it comes out as a pellet of grass/plant matter and they eat it and digest it more the second time. Yes, a little known fact, bunnies eat poo! I have several and have watched them doing it - direct from the dispenser so to speak. But they are very cute so I look past it.
Anyway, glad I'm caught up again. Things are looking good

I'd love to keep some rabbits at some point. I have an end goal of being mostly self sufficient a letting some critters roam wild. Man this gets excited to get my worm bins going again haha. I guess they count as critters too.

Sounds like you have a handle on it. Thanks for allowing the discussion.

You all are more than welcome to discuss whatever you want here!

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I was going to skip the update today, but C'99 looks electric. I had to share a couple photos.

Alright I know they are still small so I'll keep it short. Temps were a little warmer because I turned my inline fan down some to compensate for the mini fan in the grow chamber. I managed to keep RH mostly the same while temps peeked at 90F. Its been pretty god awful humid down here. I think the heat index was at around 105F today.

I planted a bunch of seeds in my Hugel Kultur garden a few days ago...I am afraid I shouldn't expect too much to make it out alive. I have been running seeds in trays but germination has been pretty slow going. If I am lucky there will be some stragglers that stick around for when I do my late summer planting. If I get to harvest anything this fall I would feel very blessed. Lets see what the Earth has in store for me.

Have a good night everyone!

 

[SweetSue]

Wow! That's one vigorous little seedling CC. Looks like "HELLO!!"