The Living Medicine Cabinet

I just topped the C'99 at the newly developing 4th node. I was getting the impression that it may not branch out too much, and that topping might inspire a little more growth. Both the plants are a bit smaller than I would like them at this point. I did have both the veg and flower spectrum on, and I think it might have been a little too much for them. So I am working with just the veg spectrum ATM.
 
Potassium, Magnesium and Zink problems show at the edges of the leaves.

In general most these problems are caused by PH levels

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 2.0-6.4
Zinc gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 4.5-4.7 and 7.5-9.5
Potassium gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 4.0-5.5

The common denominator is low PH. Except Zink could also be high PH. Considering you are using LED which I hear increases Mag use, you have quano (can be hot?), OF (can be hot) and peat moss which I know breaks down acidic. Are you using any buffers in your soil? Oyster shell flour, Calcitic Lime or garden lime?

My guess is low PH with probably a Mag deficiency complicated by the LED lights.

pH_chart72.jpg


phchartys02_1_.jpg
 
Scarfinger68 said:
Potassium, Magnesium and Zink problems show at the edges of the leaves.

In general most these problems are caused by PH levels

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 2.0-6.4
Zinc gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 4.5-4.7 and 7.5-9.5
Potassium gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 4.0-5.5

The common denominator is low PH. Except Zink could also be high PH. Considering you are using LED which I hear increases Mag use, you have quano (can be hot?), OF (can be hot) and peat moss which I know breaks down acidic. Are you using any buffers in your soil? Oyster shell flour, Calcitic Lime or garden lime?

My guess is low PH with probably a Mag deficiency complicated by the LED lights.

pH_chart72.jpg


phchartys02_1_.jpg
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I agree with your assessment. I suspected maybe some kind of lockout if it wasn't light stress. The CC amendment kit I added to the soil has gypsum dust in it. So there is a calcium buffer, but is it enough? That's a good question.
 
I'm doing a little reading on how to raise the PH. I keep ending up where I originally started, and that is that organic material (humus) does tend to neutralize soil. I am a little worried that there is too much organic matter in the soil as is. But I'm still willing to maybe top dress with something...maybe more castings? But I don't know if that'll do anything.

I'm a little wary of just adding more mineral amendments. I can't test my soil at the moment, so I'm not sure how to guide this procedure. For example, adding lime when I may already have enough Calcium and Magnesium is not ideal for soil texture/drainage and potential toxicity. Knowing where I stand with minerals in my soil would help me not make the wrong choice.
 
I'm looking into getting my soil tested at a state college here. Turn around time of 3 days once they get it....asides from tomatoes and basil do you all know any plants that have similar nutrient requirements? I would like to be able throw up a smoke screen if necessary about what I'm growing. The test form has "potted house plant" as an option for the lab to make fertilizer recommendations based on. But most house plants do not need to undergo the fertilizer regiment that our meds do. I'm considering labeling it as being used for garden vegetables but the perlite and pumice would obviously tell otherwise.

Just thinking out loud here guys and gals.
 
People have begun growing organic vegetables in tents all over the country. It's not unthinkable that you'd be growing "tomatoes" in a container. :battingeyelashes:
 
SweetSue said:
People have begun growing organic vegetables in tents all over the country. It's not unthinkable that you'd be growing "tomatoes" in a container. :battingeyelashes:
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That's my thinking, but they are a little vague on what a potted plant could be. They have a satellite office in my city where I'll have to go anyways to gets sample box, so I'll get some information from them if I can on that.
 
Not that you're growing in Doc's HB soil mix, but he'd have a pretty good idea about what levels of nutrients you need in your soil to grow cannabis because he gets his soil tested and the lab gives him recommendations to improve his soil for growing cannabis specifically. In California, he doesn't have to hide the fact that his soil will be used for cannabis and not tomatoes.

That said, LOS experts probably call for different amendments than Doc and his highly mineralized soil. Just different ways to skin a cat, I guess.

Hope the testing goes well. If you're worried that pH is the problem, go out and buy some test strips at your local garden store or the pool/spa store for under $10. Can't know for sure that pH is the problem until you test it.
 
MysterySeeds said:
Not that you're growing in Doc's HB soil mix, but he'd have a pretty good idea about what levels of nutrients you need in your soil to grow cannabis because he gets his soil tested and the lab gives him recommendations to improve his soil for growing cannabis specifically. In California, he doesn't have to hide the fact that his soil will be used for cannabis and not tomatoes.

That said, LOS experts probably call for different amendments than Doc and his highly mineralized soil. Just different ways to skin a cat, I guess.

Hope the testing goes well. If you're worried that pH is the problem, go out and buy some test strips at your local garden store or the pool/spa store for under $10. Can't know for sure that pH is the problem until you test it.
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I have spoken with him in the past at lengths about what he found perfect ratios to be. What he sticks to is pretty standard and accepted widely in the science community. He just gets his soil tested and does what the lab tells him to. Pretty simple. I'll probably start doing that myself.

LOS and Hi-Brix amendments are fairly similar. If I remember correctly one of the only big differences is that they use less organic material. LOS is probably just as mineralized as the soil you would prep for his kit. The only amendment you will find in his kit that you wont in ours is the Calcium salts he uses.

I mixed the Coots soil kit with about 10 gallons of soil. It is designed for around 7.5 gal. I think I will probably cut it even further. I am going to have to run down to the hydro store and see if they can recommend anything. I think just cutting with pure worm castings and more pumice will suffice.
 
I don't use any exact measurements for PH. But if you had one of these and it test red? Probably need to make some adjustments. I feel these are easy and cheap and are close enough for me.


P10002261.JPG
 
Scarfinger68 said:
I don't use any exact measurements for PH. But if you had one of these and it test red? Probably need to make some adjustments. I feel these are easy and cheap and are close enough for me.


P10002261.JPG
Click to expand...

I will likely get a kit...or go the home made route and just do the old vinegar and baking soda trick to see if my soil is acidic or alkaline.
 
I wish I had done a little more reading about personal experiences with 24/0 lighting. While there is some scientific data that shows plant root production isn't necessarily much more productive during a dark period, alot of growers all over the net have shown time and again that an 18/6 produces the same and if not better results because the plant isn't so stressed out. In my space 24/0 is probably just too much light for my plants. I cant think of any other reason why they aren't stretching at all. I know C99 is a little deficient, but that doesn't really explain why after 3 weeks they both still look like seedlings. Just a little frustrated today guys because I am stuck at work thinking about why yet another grow is starting out very slow....
 
what watt led did you say you were using in such a small area (like i really know how leds work lol)? is it dimmable? if your trying to encourage some stretching you might need less light actually (lumens wise)
sounds like they are getting so much light there is no "need" to stretch out. if not possible to raise your light or dim it you might consider some 5600k cfls till you get the bushiness your looking for. you also want to make sure you Ph your water between 6.2-6.8 (my personal preference is 6.5 but if im a couple of points off i dont care too much) and as far as your soil goes man i literally have no idea on the ph maybe get a soil tester. all i know is i buy foxfarms because the ph is right. i run my lights 20/4 but i will be changing to 18/6 soon as my electric bill was $150.00 this months :/ dont really want to but my wife is giving me "the stink eye". dude i really and sincerely hope things get better for you. if you have any questions you want to ask me feel free to send me a pm.
 
Pacific NW said:
what watt led did you say you were using in such a small area (like i really know how leds work lol)? is it dimmable? if your trying to encourage some stretching you might need less light actually (lumens wise)
sounds like they are getting so much light there is no "need" to stretch out. if not possible to raise your light or dim it you might consider some 5600k cfls till you get the bushiness your looking for. you also want to make sure you Ph your water between 6.2-6.8 (my personal preference is 6.5 but if im a couple of points off i dont care too much) and as far as your soil goes man i literally have no idea on the ph maybe get a soil tester. all i know is i buy foxfarms because the ph is right. i run my lights 20/4 but i will be changing to 18/6 soon as my electric bill was $150.00 this months :/ dont really want to but my wife is giving me "the stink eye". dude i really and sincerely hope things get better for you. if you have any questions you want to ask me feel free to send me a pm.
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I use RO water, so PH is pretty spot on there I think.

I can't raise the lights. :( I actually was thinking about using a dimmer, but I am switching to 18/6 tonight so we shall see what happens in the next couple of days. If that doesn't help I will have to consider the dimmer. I am using this light. I was using CFL's last grow...don't really want to go back to that if I can help it.
 
ClosedCircuit said:
I use RO water, so PH is pretty spot on there I think.

I can't raise the lights. :( I actually was thinking about using a dimmer, but I am switching to 18/6 tonight so we shall see what happens in the next couple of days. If that doesn't help I will have to consider the dimmer. I am using this light. I was using CFL's last grow...don't really want to go back to that if I can help it.
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i know nothing about ro water but i assume its neutral at 7.0? and i didnt mean use cfls through the whole grow just to get node spacing then put in the led when the plants are bigger and can handle the light better
 
Pacific NW said:
i know nothing about ro water but i assume its neutral at 7.0? and i didnt mean use cfls through the whole grow just to get node spacing then put in the led when the plants are bigger and can handle the light better
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If I remember right it is just a little acidic...like 6.8 or something. I'll have to check when I go back to the store to fill up my bucket. They have RO and distilled water at slightly different PH.

RE CFLs....thats certainly another idea. I could run some CFLs until they stretch. I'll keep it in mind.
 
After I got my LED panel I did my next run just under the LEDs. You notice I went back to CFLs for the seedling to early veg stage? Those 23 Watt CFLs ar heard to beat for efficiency and they grow gorgeous little bushes. You can get them right down on top of the leaves.
 
I just turned on the bloom (full red) spectrum on the panel and turned off the veg spectrum. I'd like to see if that will cause much stretch if at all.

I also bought another 10 gallon tub yesterday so I can cut my CC soil. I filled the tub about half way and added about 3 gallons of worm castings and around half a gallon of pumice. If I get around to testing the soil I will be testing the cut soil to see where I am at. Even if it us slightly deficient, it shouldn't burn the plants anymore.

What did I tell you guys in the beginning? This journal is about trial and error. So far we can scratch off 24/0 cycle with only 3ft of headroom. And also now we know that recycling Ocean Forest requires alot more dilution than I previously thought necessary if you are going to be amending with a nutrient kit like the CC kit.

Edit: Just checked them...C99 is looking a little better. The first set of fan leaves is not as yellow. They ar returning to green. However, the edges of the upper leaves are still discolored. Not out of the woods yet.
 
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