The Joy Of Growing - SweetSue Goes Perpetual

From my seat at the back of the short bus it is inconceivable that there is not enough calcium and magnesium in Sue's soil at this stage of the game.

There is a transport problem that is either caused by an overload of something that is out-competing magnesium for transport or there is a water quality issue. I know you off-gas the chloride compounds using molasses as a a reducing sugar, Sue. Have you ever looked at a water quality report for your location?
 
I use such a tiny quality of molasses PeeJay, two small drops to a gallon. Do you really think that could be having an effect? I can substitute compost for the BSM.
 
The molasses is not the problem in that small of a quantity. I'm more interested in the calcium content of your water. If it is high in calcium then it also has a high pH. Overload of calcium or potassium will cause magnesium transport problems. Either one will occupy the active site of the enzyme transporters and fail to be moved to the other side of the membrane. The transporter has a higher affinity for both calcium and potassium than it does for magnesium.

Are the Afghani's in kit soil or LOS?

In either case you are working in highly mineralized soils that have a wealth of magnesium in them. It is not that there is a shortage in the soil, I suspect that the problem is one of what is there may not be mobile between the soil and the plant. If that is the case, increasing the amount of mag in the soil (increasing substrate concentration) can provide a temporary fix but long term things won't fire the way they should.

Langbienite (K2Mg2(SO4)3) IS a good source of magnesium but it is also a big source of potassium. The transporters have a greater affinity for potassium than they do for magnesium and they are stoichiometrically equivalent in langbienite.

You should be able to find a municipal water report on-line for your location. I'm curious if you live in a limestone aquifer. If you find a report post it up and let's have a look.
 
The only reason I mentioned the molasses is that I know you use it to off-gas the chlorine and I wonder if you've ever looked at your water report? Mag deficiency is somewhat common in kit soil but I suspect that it has more to do with folks having a lot of calcium in their water than than there not being enough magnesium in the kit.

Potassium is the micro-nutrient that plants use the most of by quite a bit, but you rarely see a plant with a potassium deficiency. I don't know if I've ever seen one... The Crapimous Coot soil is overdone in the potassium department in my opinion with 1 cup of alfalfa meal and 1 cup of kelp meal per cubic foot of soil. Those nice round numbers bug the hell out of me. Kelp meal is a gold mine of potassium. We know that we can drive brix by limiting potassium. Why? Because the plant, even though it needs more potassium than any other micro-nutrient, is extremely efficient at transporting it - at the expense of other cations like calcium and mag. Calcium is the next in line for transport. It won't out-compete potassium even if potassium levels are fairly low, but it will out-compete magnesium.

I'd like to see how much calcium there is in your water, please, if it isn't too much trouble.
 
I assume this is what you're seeking? I'd be surprised if we weren't limestone aquifer. The Ames Limestone is a huge slice of our stratigraphy, and I'd assume there are many other limestone barriers.

I'm in the middle of uploading a mess of pictures for a mess of posts. Can you look this over PeeJay? I'll check back periodically. Thanks.

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Auto Jock Horror x Auto Amnesia (Day 68)

Looking at her closely I was excited by two factors. First off, she's much closer to harves than she appeared a couple days ago. I figure within 10 days, tops.

Secondly, look at the color!!!

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That excited me so much I took her into the natural light of the outdoors to get a better view. Enjoy. :battingeyelashes:

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I don't find anything at all on their site about that PeeJay, which I find curious and somewhat unacceptable. Let me try to dig deeper after the next mini update.
 
Auto Jack Herer (Day 76)

This girl will be following AJH x AA to the chopping block.

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Being on some form of municipal water, chances are it has a pH of 7 or more which is not a big concern with organic soil grows, pH will fluctuate anyway. But if the calcium content is high it could cause problems as PeeJay mentioned. For someone like me, who is in the construction industry this is not a problem as I can add Muratic acid to lower pH and cause the calcium to precipitate out of solution. For the average person, handling strong acids is probably not a great idea but for Sue I will think on it and see if I can't come up with a common solution LOL
 
New Year's Bag Seed (Day 65)

Ooooo... She's a pretty and stinky one. Smelling very skunky these days with the nicest touch of sweetness behind it. And look!!! More pretty colors in the pistils. :slide:

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Daily Update: Perpetual Tent - Week 12, Day 2

Maintenance notes:
- Paradise Nebula got a 1/4 Trans/Water drench.
- The Unknown Seed got her next Growth Energy drench.
- Auto Jock Horror x Auto Amnesia got a 1/4 Trans/Water drench.

I think that's all. One of these days I'll start writing down as I do instead of relying on my memory, which isn't performing the way I'd hoped today. :straightface:

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A glance at at the Big Girls.

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Sweet, sweet Strawberry Blue. (Day 65) smells of strawberries.

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Paradise Nebula ( Day 33) got her first Growth Energy drench.

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The veg shelf, kit side.

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The vegging LOS girls.

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The Unknown Seed (Day 46) got her next Energy drench.

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She looks like she'll be a lot of tiny buds, but then she has quite a way to go.

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A nice look at her true colors.

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I bent the White Widow (Day 38) over just a tad more. I've coaxed it just a smidge every day now and I think this is where I stop.

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Well, it's been a wonderful day here, filled with trying to keep up with six different threads. Whew! :laughtwo: Actually, I love every minute of it. Keeps me off the streets and out of trouble. Haha! I hope this post finds you enjoying a day filled to overflowing with opportunity to make a difference. I'm forcing myself to step away from the iPad and take a walk. I'll see you all in a bit. Need some fresh air and the temperatures outside are near perfect for that.

I'll catch up in the threads later. PeeJay, can't find any info yet on the water quality. I'll get back to the search when I return from my walk.

:Namaste:
 
Correction: I run seven different threads at this time. Who am I? What super powers do I think I have? :laughtwo:
 
TheCelt said:
PeeJay makes a good point about the potassium, the one time I had a magnesium deficiency was due to adding a few tbsp. of molasses every watering during flowering.
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TheCelt said:
Being on some form of municipal water, chances are it has a pH of 7 or more which is not a big concern with organic soil grows, pH will fluctuate anyway. But if the calcium content is high it could cause problems as PeeJay mentioned. For someone like me, who is in the construction industry this is not a problem as I can add Muratic acid to lower pH and cause the calcium to precipitate out of solution. For the average person, handling strong acids is probably not a great idea but for Sue I will think on it and see if I can't come up with a common solution LOL
Click to expand...

Celt. It is, in my opinion, incorrect to say that pH is NOT a concern in hyperactive organic growing mediums. It is not as MUCH of a concern because these active soils have a higher BUFFERING CAPACITY. In other words they are more capable of sequestering stray H+ and OH- ions than less bioactive mediums. Folks who have played with titration in the lab know that a buffer makes things more forgiving but once the buffering capacity threshold is broken pH will leap or plummet depending if an acid or a base is being titrated in. A buffer is a buffer, not a brick wall.

The amount of molasses Sue adds to her water as a reducing sugar to reduce chlorine and cholamines is not a considerable addition to the overall potassium load in the soil. She is, however feeding her LOS plants coconut water too. A few drops of molasses is not much. A tablespoon of molasses has a little less than 300 mg of potassium. A few drops has much much much less. Her plants get far more potassium from coconut water drenches than from the molasses. In both cases it would be nice if she heeded the advice to moderate potassium in the same way as she has learned to moderate watering. My gut tells me that potassium is only a small factor. I'm more curious about her water pH and calcium content.

I'm not basing my hypothesis that Sue's water has lots of calcium in it on the Afgans that have shown mag deficiency alone. Sue has a lot of enthusiasm and a large crew of :cheertwo:

I'm looking at growth rates in general and things are not firing on all cylinders. When I look at 10, 15, 25 day growth rates, etc, she is doing ok but the ball is not being hit out of the park. The diagnostician in me asks the question, "why?" Water application processes are good. Swick works well. She has wet and dry cycling down. The climate is good. Her mediums are solid. There is plenty of light. From where I sit (at the back of the short bus) there is one unknown and that is water quality.

Anyone who is growing in Kit or LOS soil who thinks that water pH and dissolved solids is a non-issue because they are growing in "magic dirt...." Well I challenge you to start adding pH up or down to your water until you are either above 8 or below 6 and see what happens. Eventually you are going to exhaust the soil's buffering capacity and shite will happen. I'm not gonna do it. I don't use pH up or down but I assured myself periodically that I'm seldom at 8.1 or higher - 5.9 or lower. Remember that the pH scale is logarithmic. The difference btween 5.9 and 6 is equal to the difference between 7 and 6...

I'd just like to know where the water is at is all. It may be fine. The Mag lockouts are bothersome. The Carnival is lacking the deep green color of other examples I've seen and I'm noticing that it seems to be fading a little more. Autos and small pots... Blame the pot size but they don't seem to be hitting potential either. They aren't awful, but they aren't rock-stars either. There is more than adequate mag in the soil no matter if the pots are big or small because all the plants are in heavily mineralized soil.

I'm like a doctor who is ordering a test to rule something out.
 
I haven't been able to track down PH info on our local water. Do you think it would help to switch to RO water? When lights come on tomorrow I'm going to take a good look at my brood, keeping in mind your comments.

You sure do delight in making me think, don't you PeeJay? Well dammit!! Keep it up. :Love: I need to digest your post and do some detective work. I appreciate the heads up and pointing me in the direction of some answers.

The Afghanis were started in the lightened soil and that made up a significant portion of the smaller than normal pots they got planted into. My learning curve, I'm afraid. They've never lived up to potential and there are too many variables at play to narrow it down in any timely manner. The soil I'm using now is straight-out CC mix, fairly close to original recipe. The next big planting in that soil will be the Dark Devil Auto that just came up. We won't know what that soil can do until I actually get it going. Well, I'm using it in the tiny pots, but can we judge what a larger pot can do based on these tiny pots? I wouldn't think so.

Let me see what I can figure out tomorrow.

Time to watch for Graytail.
 
Pittsburgh PA 7.88 (Mg) 26.80 (Ca) 19.18 (Na) 1.65 (K) (In PPM)

The water comes from the Allegheny River. pH is great, around 7.3 - should be fine. Magnesium/Calcium ratio of 1/4 is nice. Sodium is rather high. Potassium is moderate.

You shouldn't need to go RO water. I don't think water is the issue, but it was worth the effort to rule it out. I'd trade your tap water for mine any day. It's nice to have ruled it out as the culprit.

:scratchinghead:
 
Thank you PeeJay. I appreciate you doing the legwork for me. I'm so tired I can barely see. Never made it to bed last night.

So I need to explore other options. At least water's ruled out. I need sleep. I'll see you all tomorrow. :Love:
 
Wow! When was the last time I went to bed before midnight? Let me sleep through the night. :laughtwo:
 
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