The Capn's Simple Hydroponics Cook Off - Goal: 1lb Indoors - Journal

[Cultivator]

guys great journal. Not sure how i missed it but im here now....

Ive only quickly skipped through but i will take the time to read through tomorro when its not so late.

One post that stood out to me that i must comment on is this.

Hey bassman! 2600 posts and you're still cooling your res with ice jugs. Now that's DEDICATION! I don't mean to push people away from DWC, I really just want to caution, and point out that near DWC weights can be had with less risky or laborious methods.

While u are correct in ur analysis its not entirely true. The reason being is the time u have to veg, i could have nearly completed two dwc grows in the time it would take to veg and flower the same results in soil. Example: I average 8-12oz per plant with 4 plants per 1000w hps or 6-8 oz 4 plants under 600w hps. i have plants in my journals which show this with veg times of little more than 2 weeks. I challenge anyone to match that in soil. I just cut an ice strain which i vegged for 17days and cut down 12 days early and got 7oz 6grams dry under 600w hps with 3 other plants in there too, thats 60 days start to finish! But having said all that im starting to see the beneifits of soil if u have a seperate veg area where u can perpetual grow. its unlikely i'll ever return to growing in soil as my main grows but i might mess with it in the mess around spaces i have. The only reason i picked out this post was because i dont think its fair to put people off DWC or other forms of hydro for that matter as done correctly theres no beating it. soil grows can be messed up too and is usually guys new to growing that have the main issues, therefore it might not matter what they grow in they might have probs. For experienced growers we normally have all bases covered.

Not that u are growing in soil but just saying.


But guys u are doing great so far and i'll get caught up properly soon.

 

[autopsycho]

subbed

 

[TheCapn]

While u are correct in ur analysis its not entirely true. The reason being is the time u have to veg, i could have nearly completed two dwc grows in the time it would take to veg and flower the same results in soil.

I don't think he was referring to soil... but I know what you mean. He was pointing out the fact that if you're still trying to cool your reservoir with ice, it's time to step up and by a chiller, or maybe consider a less labor intensive grow method.

What he was saying is true. Take a look at some of my articles. Bottom line is... we can't flower any faster than two months, so if you veg for 2 months, it's not like you're wasting time (unless you start every grow from scratch). So the point is, you veg a little bit longer to "catch up" to dwc growth rates. Then you can flower out with little to no risk, and no ice bottles 3 times a day. Most people can't keep their reservoir under 70 degrees.

That said, it sounds like you are really rolling successfully with the DWC. That is awesome to hear, and I don't doubt that given the same veg time, DWC would outgrow topfeed rockwool. For me, I take a clone when I put a plant into flower. When that plant comes out, the clone is big and ready to flower. So it works out perfectly. As I've said before, if you're considering DWC, put a bucket of water in your grow area with an air stone in it. Leave it for 24 hours. If the water temp is still below 70, you're probably good to go with no chiller. If it's over 70 and you still want to do it, google "root rot DWC" and spend some time reading first.

Cultivator... now that we are completely off subject, what do you know about low pressure aeroponics? Have you ever seen anyone growing single, large plants in aero systems? I can't seem to find anyone doing this.

 

[Cultivator]

yes ive seen large plants growing aeroponically and they are pretty good. But u have pretty much the same pit falls as DWC as well as the issue of pump failure. in this aspect DWC would be safer. Having said that u get very slightly faster growth rate with the aeroponics.

How were u thinking of setting it up? Depending on the size of plant u want to grow i would use a 10 gal bucket or bigger with a drain in the bottom running to res. and have maybe 4 sprayers in the bucket on 24/7. There are several ways u could set it up but i would set it up like this.

Just a quick after thought on DWC. I have systems running with chillers and individual buckets running without 1. I dont put frozen anything in buckets as it damages roots if they touch the bottles. My water temps average 72 in the individual buckets and have no issues at all mate. I run a mix of enzymes that allow me to run a slightly higher res temp. i think u can have issues with any type of grow, nothing is full proof for novices, even experienced growers get caught out at times.

 

[c526]

had to sign up, just too give thanks to the cap'n ..a big thank you for all of this,,ive followed his system(minus food regiment) and for me its kicking ass ,ive done soil -dwc -and now the top feed-I'm staying with this one

really wish I didn't live in an uncool place, or I would post some pics

 

[Skybound]

The majority of us live in uncool places. Just analyze your pics before you upload to make sure there is nothing that points in a specific direction and you'll be fine.

 

[TheCapn]

yes ive seen large plants growing aeroponically and they are pretty good. But u have pretty much the same pit falls as DWC as well as the issue of pump failure. in this aspect DWC would be safer. Having said that u get very slightly faster growth rate with the aeroponics.

How were u thinking of setting it up? Depending on the size of plant u want to grow i would use a 10 gal bucket or bigger with a drain in the bottom running to res. and have maybe 4 sprayers in the bucket on 24/7. There are several ways u could set it up but i would set it up like this.

Just a quick after thought on DWC. I have systems running with chillers and individual buckets running without 1. I dont put frozen anything in buckets as it damages roots if they touch the bottles. My water temps average 72 in the individual buckets and have no issues at all mate. I run a mix of enzymes that allow me to run a slightly higher res temp. i think u can have issues with any type of grow, nothing is full proof for novices, even experienced growers get caught out at times.

Thanks for the input, vader. The pump failure comes from turning it on and off 60 times a day? I agree running the pump 24/7 is the way to go. No timer to worry about, and the digital timers won't work on standard battery backups. They need pure sine wave backups, which are more expensive. I just ordered a device that will txt me if my power goes out! It will also alert me if my air temp, water temp, or room humidity goes out of the range i set. All for under $100. I'll be making a blog post about this when I get it.

As far as the DWC temps, thanks for converting to Fahrenheit for us lazy Americans. ha ha. When I was running RDWC I was running about 72F as well. It did fine until the airline popped off a bucket one day. They didn't recirculate fast enough to keep the DO up in that bucket. I think this is one of the reasons the under currents do so well. With the water flow, the DO is so high already, and air stones are just a backup. But you're right, there are issues with any method for sure. For me, 9 out of 10 times it is GROWER ERROR. Like when I forget to plug in a timer and my plants dont get water for 2 days.

I like your diagram, I draw out stuff on paper all the time. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night with an idea and draw it out. This only thing about this design, is with a large root mass, it will completely cover those sprayers. However, at first, those bottom sprayers are definitely needed.

Over the last few months, I've been working on a design for a single plant, aeroponic system. I am getting close, but I'm not sure it's ready yet. I want it to be as simple and fool proof as possible, but those two words don't relate to aero.

I don't want to muddy up this journal any more so I'm going to start a new thread about this. I'll invite anyone interested to it shortly.

 

[TheCapn]

had to sign up, just too give thanks to the cap'n ..a big thank you for all of this,,ive followed his system(minus food regiment) and for me its kicking ass ,ive done soil -dwc -and now the top feed-I'm staying with this one

really wish I didn't live in an uncool place, or I would post some pics

I love hearing this, c526, and it means a lot that you signed up. I scoured the forums daily for years before I ever made my first post.

I know pictures are scary. Have you been following the "simple hydroponics" thread with top feed grow cubes?

 

[c526]

I love hearing this, c526, and it means a lot that you signed up. I scoured the forums daily for years before I ever made my first post.

I know pictures are scary. Have you been following the "simple hydroponics" thread with top feed grow cubes?

Yes sir, I have read all of your threads and s1ingblade also

I couldn't get the air pots before flower,so i used 3 gallon inside 5 gallon(way to small,live and learn)

top-feed with hydro-halo--again will build better,it hugs outer rim and i don't feel it is getting much to the inside

timer set to run 4 times during lights on,4min and twice lights off 45 seconds.recycled to 15 gallon res

Grodan mini cubes

2 plants-scrog-2 600hps and floor space of 60inch*40inch*7ft

using your system has made my plants go from index finger trunks to 3finger trunks

Question--my piping back to the rez,is approx 2 feet and somehow roots have made the way from the buckets and are going down the lines is this ok?? it doesn't impede flow of water

 

[Skybound]

Cap'n, can you post the link to your signature and announce the new thread? If not, please send me a link.

 

[TheCapn]

Yes sir, I have read all of your threads and s1ingblade also

I couldn't get the air pots before flower,so i used 3 gallon inside 5 gallon(way to small,live and learn)

top-feed with hydro-halo--again will build better,it hugs outer rim and i don't feel it is getting much to the inside

timer set to run 4 times during lights on,4min and twice lights off 45 seconds.recycled to 15 gallon res

Grodan mini cubes

2 plants-scrog-2 600hps and floor space of 60inch*40inch*7ft

using your system has made my plants go from index finger trunks to 3finger trunks

Question--my piping back to the rez,is approx 2 feet and somehow roots have made the way from the buckets and are going down the lines is this ok?? it doesn't impede flow of water

Great to hear, man, and it sounds like you've done your homework. Wow you really ARE going capn style. I like the two plants with a 600W each. It is a lot of fun and when you chop your first 1pounder the feeling is amazing. sling is about to feel it on Nov 15th.

Don't worry about the 3 gallon pots. Bigger is better, but will be surprised. My biggest ever (you probably saw it) was 20oz in a 3.5 gal nursery pot. As far as the drop rings go, if you're watering 6x a day I have a feeling they are getting wet enough. As long as the pots are heavy, you will know they are wet.

>>somehow roots have made the way from the buckets and are going down the lines is this ok??

Very nice. You know you're doing it right when roots are growing down the tubes. Since you've got the 3gal pot inside the bucket, you've created a mini humid area in there that roots love. As long as the roots are not clogging the system, I say let them live.

 

[TheCapn]

Cap'n, can you post the link to your signature and announce the new thread? If not, please send me a link.

For sure. But first I'm hoping to finish a blog post about a new toy I got in the mail today.

 

[Cultivator]

I see why u guys do one plant per 600w hps but u guys are losing out on oz's! each to their own and i like what u guys are doing but u should be pulling at least 20+ per 600w. A lb per plant indoors is still great.

 

[TheCapn]

I see why u guys do one plant per 600w hps but u guys are losing out on oz's! each to their own and i like what u guys are doing but u should be pulling at least 20+ per 600w. A lb per plant indoors is still great.

I agree, and I've done it (once) with one plant, but that was not the norm.

cultivater brings up a good point, that I've talked about in another thread. For our readers... what cultivater is saying is: If you grow more plants under the 600W light, you can get more yield.

And it is true, you can yield a bit more by doing more plants, but the goal here is to keep plant counts down as much as possible. When you have a limit of 12 plants, that equates to 4 in flower, 4 in veg, and 4 to play with (extra clones, strain hunting). It adds up fast, and before you know it you've got way too many.

So lets say your max plant count is 12, you could flower 4 plants under a 600W light, and get 20zips, maybe 24. Or, you could do 4 plants under 4 lights, and get 4 x 16 = 64zips.

If you have an unlimited plant count, then certainly more plants = more yield.

I think sling is looking into a 4 plant set up in a 4x4 area.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Yes sir, I have read all of your threads and s1ingblade also

I couldn't get the air pots before flower,so i used 3 gallon inside 5 gallon(way to small,live and learn)

top-feed with hydro-halo--again will build better,it hugs outer rim and i don't feel it is getting much to the inside

timer set to run 4 times during lights on,4min and twice lights off 45 seconds.recycled to 15 gallon res

Grodan mini cubes

2 plants-scrog-2 600hps and floor space of 60inch*40inch*7ft

using your system has made my plants go from index finger trunks to 3finger trunks

Question--my piping back to the rez,is approx 2 feet and somehow roots have made the way from the buckets and are going down the lines is this ok?? it doesn't impede flow of water

Glad to have you onboard the 'Simple Hydro' setups! I had the same problem when I ended up getting the 3 gallon nursery pot and found out it doesn't fit the rim of the 5gal bucket. Luckily I just ordered some 5 gal pots with the correct diameter!

I currently have roots just setting foot on the bottom of the buckets, so them being exposed definitely doesn't affect the plant. But logically if a pice of root mass ends up breaking off (due to air pruning or just constant recirculation) it could get caught in you pump and cause a failure. If you are using the Hesienburg Tea I am sure you wouldn't have a problem with the root breaking down in your res if it happens to pass the pump

 

[s1ingblade]

I think sling is looking into a 4 plant set up in a 4x4 area.

More like four plants under four thousand watts haha
Ah yeah s1T

 

[s1ingblade]

Glad to have you onboard the 'Simple Hydro' setups! I had the same problem when I ended up getting the 3 gallon nursery pot and found out it doesn't fit the rim of the 5gal bucket. Luckily I just ordered some 5 gal pots with the correct diameter!

I currently have roots just setting foot on the bottom of the buckets, so them being exposed definitely doesn't affect the plant. But logically if a pice of root mass ends up breaking off (due to air pruning or just constant recirculation) it could get caught in you pump and cause a failure. If you are using the Hesienburg Tea I am sure you wouldn't have a problem with the root breaking down in your res if it happens to pass the pump

Cool stuff man thanks

 

[s1ingblade]

Great to hear, man, and it sounds like you've done your homework. Wow you really ARE going capn style. I like the two plants with a 600W each. It is a lot of fun and when you chop your first 1pounder the feeling is amazing. sling is about to feel it on Nov 15th.

Don't worry about the 3 gallon pots. Bigger is better, but will be surprised. My biggest ever (you probably saw it) was 20oz in a 3.5 gal nursery pot. As far as the drop rings go, if you're watering 6x a day I have a feeling they are getting wet enough. As long as the pots are heavy, you will know they are wet.

>>somehow roots have made the way from the buckets and are going down the lines is this ok??

Very nice. You know you're doing it right when roots are growing down the tubes. Since you've got the 3gal pot inside the bucket, you've created a mini humid area in there that roots love. As long as the roots are not clogging the system, I say let them live.

Keep on feeding them roots! Maybe I ought to catch up before posting haha backwards posting. I will say this if the room looks the way I think it should ill post a midnight update with pics of course

 

[Bassman59]

I don't think he was referring to soil... but I know what you mean. He was pointing out the fact that if you're still trying to cool your reservoir with ice, it's time to step up and by a chiller, or maybe consider a less labor intensive grow method.

What he was saying is true. Take a look at some of my articles. Bottom line is... we can't flower any faster than two months, so if you veg for 2 months, it's not like you're wasting time (unless you start every grow from scratch). So the point is, you veg a little bit longer to "catch up" to dwc growth rates. Then you can flower out with little to no risk, and no ice bottles 3 times a day. Most people can't keep their reservoir under 70 degrees.

That said, it sounds like you are really rolling successfully with the DWC. That is awesome to hear, and I don't doubt that given the same veg time, DWC would outgrow topfeed rockwool. For me, I take a clone when I put a plant into flower. When that plant comes out, the clone is big and ready to flower. So it works out perfectly. As I've said before, if you're considering DWC, put a bucket of water in your grow area with an air stone in it. Leave it for 24 hours. If the water temp is still below 70, you're probably good to go with no chiller. If it's over 70 and you still want to do it, google "root rot DWC" and spend some time reading first.

Cultivator... now that we are completely off subject, what do you know about low pressure aeroponics? Have you ever seen anyone growing single, large plants in aero systems? I can't seem to find anyone doing this.

I think you've misunderstood where/when I use ice jugs. My 3.5 gal "early veg" buckets sit inside larger tubs that have water in them in a small closet. The tubs get the ice jugs to cool the buckets once per day. Works perfect. When I finish a flowering cycle in one of my two tents, these plants go into 5 gal buckets under RDWC WITH CHILLERS. Yes I have a chiller in each tent. It's not practical for me to veg 3-4 plants in the closet with a chiller and rdwc.

I fully understand root rot and have told many about water temps. I too get 6-12 oz per plant in my grows. I'm now getting perpetual rotations going with two tents for flowering (and some veg time as needed) and the closet for early veg.

Back to getting myself updated on this great journal.

 

[Bassman59]

yes ive seen large plants growing aeroponically and they are pretty good. But u have pretty much the same pit falls as DWC as well as the issue of pump failure. in this aspect DWC would be safer. Having said that u get very slightly faster growth rate with the aeroponics.

How were u thinking of setting it up? Depending on the size of plant u want to grow i would use a 10 gal bucket or bigger with a drain in the bottom running to res. and have maybe 4 sprayers in the bucket on 24/7. There are several ways u could set it up but i would set it up like this.


Just a quick after thought on DWC. I have systems running with chillers and individual buckets running without 1. I dont put frozen anything in buckets as it damages roots if they touch the bottles. My water temps average 72 in the individual buckets and have no issues at all mate. I run a mix of enzymes that allow me to run a slightly higher res temp. i think u can have issues with any type of grow, nothing is full proof for novices, even experienced growers get caught out at times.

yes, highly agree. NEVER put ice jugs into the root zone. Freezes the roots and they break off.

For me, in my area, I'm forced to use ice jugs during my early veg in OUTER tubs to cool the root zone. Once a tent becomes available after a harvest I put my girls into the tent with pumps and chiller.