TheCapn's - Not So Simple - Aeroponics

Red0ctober said:
Hi Capn,

First let me say that you are the reason I joined up here :)
After reading and lurking for a while, I wanted to have the ability to participate in your posts which are just a treasure trove of information!
Thank you for all your hard work and dedication, as well as your willingness to share your knowledge with the world!

Now to my question...
I have run a prefabricated aero system (plant tier system) for some years now and would like to now build my own modular system pretty much like the one you have laid out. I have an aquarium chiller which I have not yet used but would like to incorporate.

So firstly, lets say you had two, or three, or eight of these totes set up - how could you alter the design to use a central rez instead of each tote having its own individual rez? Or more to the point, how could you use a single chiller on multiple totes?

Secondly, am I correct in thinking that you pass the nutrient/tea solution directly through the chiller?

Someone once told me that chillers are not designed for this, and the way to chill a rez is to hook up a stainless steel coil to the chiller, which then in turn sits in the reservoir. Cold water passes through the coil thus cooling the rez. This way the chiller itself doesn't get contaminated with rez water, nutrients, and teas. This info could be completely wrong, and please point it out if it is...
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I do run the nutrient solution thru the chiller. The chiller internals are titanium, made to stand up to saltwater, and won't corrode. What the other guy told you... you can use a separate tank of clean water, chill that, and then use stainless wart coils in all the other reservoirs. It's a pain, but I've chilled 3 reservoirs doing it that way.

I'm envious of your space! With that much space, I would section it off into 4 x 4 areas and run one plant per 4x4 section. I would do one grow, one chiller, and set up the totes recirculating. I would do something typical like the "under current" systems do, or like this guy demonstrates:

[video=youtube;3yXzZzOJikI]
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This system is good because of the way the water is pumped in, it creates a lot of dissolved oxygen. Plus, he has the airstones in case of a power outage.

If it were me, I would run 4 plants, in that space, each under a 600W. I would run two separate recirculating systems. Load system A with two plants, then wait a month, and load system B with two plants. That way, you can have 2lbs per month. System A you will pump the nutrient solution thru the chiller. To chill the other system, you buy ONE stainless wart chiller coil. Put a water pump in system A, that pushes water thru the coil in system B. This will cool system B.

But here's the catch. I won't do aero again. Within two weeks, roots are going down the drain, and into the water pumps. Since I switched the system over to aero / dwc hybrid, it is pretty much like DWC. Next time, I'll just keep it more simple and do dwc. However I won't use air pumps, I'll keep water moving thru the totes at a high volume and have it spray or pour in, like you see in the video above.

Cool water flow over roots is the way to go.
 
Capn, what is your opinion on running the water right over the roots? Would this block nutrient uptake b/c of constantly being washed off?
 
Aww cool! Thanks for the link; what a great under current system in that video!
Maybe I will build something like that instead of aero.
You're right about the roots clogging things up.
I suppose that you could add or subtract buckets as needed from that system.
You'd just have to make sure the pump is a high enough gph to handle the amount of buckets.
He is using about 200gph per bucket if he's got an 800gph pump in that video.
I might install the bulk heads in the lids of the buckets instead of the side like he did
this way the water shoots down into the bucket from the highest possible point, giving more aeration

It might sound stupid, but how would one drain the whole system out to do a rez change?
I've never seen an under current system in action before
 
Red0ctober said:
It might sound stupid, but how would one drain the whole system out to do a rez change?
I've never seen an under current system in action before
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If you have a siphon or another submersible pump, just drop in control bucket and suck dry to waste, then rebuild. RO, did you start a journal yet? I'd really like to see what you configure with 120 sq/ft and an RDWC/Under current system. Plus, we should respect Capn's wish to keep this journal from getting off track too often. Plus, some points you raised I really would like to help hash out with you.
 
Capn, post #30 here: Bassman Strips The Kosher Kush! Hi-Defoliation - DWC-RDWC - 1K Watts Of Madness! shows my rdwc system. Using 1.5" pvc with the chiller imo is better than the smaller line, typically 3/4". With 3/4" rdwc I found roots will clog the line some and slow the flow. But with 1.4" they may grow into the pvc a little but wont slow the flow.

The drawback to a system like mine is that it's not adjustable as far as placing the buckets. Once they are set, you won't be adjusting them in the space. So get it right the first time.

Draining is a small pain. There is always about 2" of water in the buckets after pumping it out. I rolled up towels like a cigar and soak it up and wring it out. then wipe the buckets clean. I can pull a plant and place it on a spare bucket outside the tent and wipe that bucket, rotating through the plants. But once they are big this is not viable, so drain-replenish later in the grow excludes removing that last bit in the plant buckets. Not a major deal though. Soaking up from the main bucket gets 90% of the nutrient solution.
 
Skybound said:
If you have a siphon or another submersible pump, just drop in control bucket and suck dry to waste, then rebuild. RO, did you start a journal yet? I'd really like to see what you configure with 120 sq/ft and an RDWC/Under current system. Plus, we should respect Capn's wish to keep this journal from getting off track too often. Plus, some points you raised I really would like to help hash out with you.
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With my system, I just drain out from the return line. The pump pushes through the chiller to the main. I just pull the lid off the main with the return line and set it over an empty bucket. Fill it up, dump in bathtub, rinse repeat.
 
RDWC is the best way..................................
 
Bassman59 said:
Capn, post #30 here: Bassman Strips The Kosher Kush! Hi-Defoliation - DWC-RDWC - 1K Watts Of Madness! shows my rdwc system. Using 1.5" pvc with the chiller imo is better than the smaller line, typically 3/4". With 3/4" rdwc I found roots will clog the line some and slow the flow. But with 1.4" they may grow into the pvc a little but wont slow the flow.

The drawback to a system like mine is that it's not adjustable as far as placing the buckets. Once they are set, you won't be adjusting them in the space. So get it right the first time.

Draining is a small pain. There is always about 2" of water in the buckets after pumping it out. I rolled up towels like a cigar and soak it up and wring it out. then wipe the buckets clean. I can pull a plant and place it on a spare bucket outside the tent and wipe that bucket, rotating through the plants. But once they are big this is not viable, so drain-replenish later in the grow excludes removing that last bit in the plant buckets. Not a major deal though. Soaking up from the main bucket gets 90% of the nutrient solution.
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This is a nice system, bassman. It's a lot like the under current system. You saved a grand building it yourself I'm sure. This is the RIGHT way to do RDWC! Thanks for the link. When I do water changes I never worry about a couple inches of water left in the bottom, but it is tough when it comes time to clean out after harvest.

If you were to build another one, is there anything you would do differently?
 
Cap'n, just wanted to say that your system is still working well for me. All of those plants that were dying came back and are all twice as big. I set them to 12/12 as soon as I saw your post and they've responded very well. I'm home almost all day and I'm surprised at how low maintenance the system is. I simply routed my DIY chiller out the window where I think it's about 10 degrees. Res temps are steady at 65-68 degrees. Using your system to grow Pineapple Express, OG Kush, Skunk #1, Mammoth, Ace of Spades, and Manitou Thunderfuck. So far the Ace of Spades and pine ex have been the most vigorous.
 
BarlesCharkly said:
Cap'n, just wanted to say that your system is still working well for me. All of those plants that were dying came back and are all twice as big. I set them to 12/12 as soon as I saw your post and they've responded very well. I'm home almost all day and I'm surprised at how low maintenance the system is. I simply routed my DIY chiller out the window where I think it's about 10 degrees. Res temps are steady at 65-68 degrees. Using your system to grow Pineapple Express, OG Kush, Skunk #1, Mammoth, Ace of Spades, and Manitou Thunderfuck. So far the Ace of Spades and pine ex have been the most vigorous.
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Glad to hear it, BC. Good luck. The AOS is arguably the most vigorous in veg I've ever done. If you're lucky you'll get a "Black cherry soda" pheno. They are lavender color buds and smell great, although it is not a hug yielder.
 
It has been a long time since my last update to this grow, so I will catch everyone up to speed. If you've followed my other posts, you'll know my method of growing, is big one pounders, in rock wool grow cubes, also known as "croutons". I grow them in superoots airpots, top feed, using a separate reservoir for each plant. By irrigating 2-4 times a day, I can keep fresh nutrients running over the roots, yet little spaces between the rockwool cubes, provides copious amounts of oxygen in the root zone. This style of growing produces near DWC growth rates, but without the RISK of root disease, so common in DWC.

Here are a couple examples of the system. As you can see, I use a $10, 27gal tote from the home store. I simply cut a hole in the lid, then sit the $15, 7 gal air pot on top. I have a $17, 185GPH pump in the tote, and a DIY PVC drip ring. For under $50, I have a system that will grow huge plants. Aside from strain hunting plants, I've averaged over a lb with every plant in 2013. I can't say enough about the system. This system should not be compared to dirt, coco, or traditional rockwool grows. It is much more than that. As I said before it is comparable to DWC and Aeroponics. Before I started using this system (I call it "capn style") I was growing in RDWC.

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This particular grow I am journal-ing is very experimental. It started out as low pressure aeroponics, but as most have found, when the root ball becomes so large, it is near impossible to keep roots out of the drain. So, I changed it to DWC when I moved it to flower. The reason I am doing this experimental DWC is because I want to see if I can get a bigger yield by growing DWC. Currently, I am into flower about one month. At this time I don't see any reason to believe I will get a bigger yield but it is still too soon to tell.

The DWC plant is a strain that I have not announced yet. It is a hyped up strain and I don't want to announce it until I am sure I can do it justice. However, in my strain hunting, the yields are huge compared to anything else I've grown.

Also in the room, you will see my DinaFem OG, growing classic "capn style". The DF OG is an amazing plant. The branches are thick, it is incredibly easy to grow, the yield is high, the high is high, but the best part about it, is it truly is finished in 8 weeks. Both plants are over 4" tall, from base of stem to top, and both are about 44"+ in diameter. My closet is 44" wide.

Here is a picture of the unannounced strain in DWC. You can get an idea of the size by looking that the 27gal tote:

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Here is a pic of the OG (this plant is one week ahead):
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And an attempt to show you the entire room:
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The chiller is only on the DWC plant, and I keep the water at 68. There are no air stoners in the tub, only the returning pouring of the water from the chiller, plus the sprayers run 24/7. I have the sprayer pump on a battery backup in case of power outage.

I'm using general hydroponics nutrients and keeping a max of 900ppm in the rockwool, and 800 in the DWC. PH is fairly stable around 5.8. Both plants are doing amazing. No burnt tips, great structure, and the buds are stacked and bulking up. I'm really excited about these two, and the addition of the 600W cool tube between the two plants.

I continue to hear people talking about yield "success" in terms of grams per watt. Don't get hung up on this. Light is the most sure way to increase yield, and it's cheap, comparatively. Unless you have permission to grow an unlimited number of plants, a much better measure is oz per plant. No one gets busted because they have too much light, but if you have too many plants, you're headed for trouble. The 3rd 600W light makes a total of 1800W. Will I get 1 gpw? No; I would need to get 2 lbs per plant to make that goal! The 3rd light might seem like overkill but lets think about the cost. For me, a 600W light at 12 hours a day, costs right at $15 a month to run it. How much product does it take to make up for that $15? You get my point ;-)

Light up your plants, my friends, and you'll be lighting up more doobies. Thanks for reading and I hope you all like the pictures. If you're not doin it capn style, I donno what the F you're doing. :thumb:
 
I suspect such a keen green thumb comes with seasoning which is why I'm trying as many techniques as I can, hopefully to shorten that learning curve and season myself sooner. I am definitely envious of the perfection Capn gets in his grows, and they all look like that too.
 
Are you using your Tea with this Aero/DWC setup...I forget if you are using the chiller to keep things sterile or comfortable for the 'bennies'?
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I'm really dying to know this strain Capn, looks like she is a high THC producer! Of course you WILL bring it justice bro...you sure you just don't want to keep this strain for yourself :laughtwo:
 
wow man $15 a month for 12 hrs on 600w is insanely cheap! I pay .119 cents per KWH. So for 1k watts, x 12 hrs day, it's $42.84 per month. But add in fans, chillers, pumps, etc, and my winter bill is $240+ per month with all the other household uses. In summer, with house AC, it's $500+

It's for this reason I tend to turn down my 1k to 600w at the begin of flip. By day 21 and end of stretch I am back at 1k watts, but I turn the hours on down to 10, and eventually 9 hrs on. Basically GLR schedule.
 
AfricanGrower said:
Are you using your Tea with this Aero/DWC setup...I forget if you are using the chiller to keep things sterile or comfortable for the 'bennies'?

I'm really dying to know this strain Capn, looks like she is a high THC producer! Of course you WILL bring it justice bro...you sure you just don't want to keep this strain for yourself :laughtwo:
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Hi AG. Good questions.

Yes I use tea with any method. However, for this DWC and using the sprayers, I am more diligent about straining the tea before adding it to the system, so I don't clog up anything, and I don't want any remnants floating around in the reservoir. I'm also using florablend.

Yes I always use a chiller if I do a grow method with no media. (DWC / AERO / BIO BUCKETS) Running a (no grow media) system with no chiller is like driving drunk. You might get away with it for awhile, but eventually you will get busted. Then you lose your license for 6 months. :-)

I have a 396gph pump that is constantly running water thru the chiller. As the water pours in the other side, opposite the pump, it creates a good flow of water through the roots. Plus of course I have all the sprayers on 24/7. Next time, I won't use the sprayers. The water pouring in and flowing through the roots is enough. That said, unless I'm overly impressed by the size of the colas, I won't do DWC again. This grow is sort to prove to myself that top feed rockwool cubes is just as effective.

The subject of chillers, beneficial bacteria, and root disease comes up frequently. It is true that "bacteria" (good and bad) thrive in a bit warmer water (72-80), but we also know it (good and bad) lives just fine in cooler water (65 - 68). The difference is that bad bacteria live better in low oxygen environments. Cool water = high oxygen. Maybe Cultivator can chime in here. He is one of the guys I respect most around here. He has many years of experience with different grow methods, and DWC is one of his favorites. Yet, he still needs to be mindful of the dreaded pythium. It just goes to show it affects beginners and experienced growers alike.

That picture wasn't a good root shot. The roots that are exposed to air are more yellow, plus the light shining in was from the HPS. I drained a bit of water and got a couple better pictures for you. They are still fairly white a month into flower. No signs of root disease.

ROOT CAM!

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Hey Capn , looking great. couldn't agree with you more about the chillers , love the analogy :) + reps for helping the masses with great advice
 
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