The Best Sativa Strain

[cbdhemp808]

I've read on another forum that apparently all Thai genetics got contaminated with indica genes even before Thai stick became a thing. Now I don't know how much truth there is to that but it was just something I read.

Perhaps the inclusion of indica genetics occurred because a long time ago people brought landraces from the north down to Thailand. From what I've heard, the Afghan and other northern landraces were developed over a long period of time to be multi-purpose, meaning a variety of types: sativa dominant, indica dominant, fiber, medicine, food/oil. So the potency the Thai breeders were seeking could have come from genetics from the north, including indica genetics.

Note that "landrace" does not necessarily imply either sativa or indica. I.e. you can have a landrace that's a combination of sativa and indica genetics. Or to say that a different way, a "pure" sativa, for example, doesn't imply simply a landrace sativa—it implies an original landrace sativa. That's my understanding. An original landrace sativa, I suppose, would be genetically very close to a wild, pure sativa.

 

[Phillybonker]

Perhaps the inclusion of indica genetics occurred because a long time ago people brought landraces from the north down to Thailand. From what I've heard, the Afghan and other northern landraces were developed over a long period of time to be multi-purpose, meaning a variety of types: sativa dominant, indica dominant, fiber, medicine, food/oil. So the potency the Thai breeders were seeking could have come from genetics from the north, including indica genetics.

That sounds about right.

Note that "landrace" does not necessarily imply either sativa or indica. I.e. you can have a landrace that's a combination of sativa and indica genetics.

Yep like Sinai which has a indica pheno and a sativa pheno.

 

[Fenderbender]

I don't think pure Sativas are my cup of tea..
I grew some Malawi, mainly because they advertised a psychedelic high... but I dunno this is like smoking hash, rather a sobering high, very fresh, very uplifting with the main problem if I smoke some of this I'm seeing Sunrise, I'm up and alert all night.
I mean I guess it's good to have stashed, I can see it being a useful stimulant on occasion.
But it's not what I'm looking for I need that little green troll with the hammer.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ironically, from what I can tell, a genetically "pure" sativa is one that is close to the original sativas that came from landraces and wild strains in the areas of Europe and Central Asia (not east, south, or southeast Asia). Those strains had low THC and varying amounts of CBD. Which would mean they weren't very psychoactive. But if any of those produced a lot of resin, it could be that they were stimulating because of the presence of specific sativa-associated terpenes.

Nowadays, when people refer to a "pure" sativa, what they mean is a hybridized strain that contains both sativa and indica genetics, high THC, low CBD, and a pronounced sativa effect—i.e. stimulating. Examples are Thai, Durban Poison, and Acapulco Gold. It turns out also that most high-grade, type III CBD strains have sativa effects.

I've just been writing some more thoughts today about sativa vs. indica, HERE.

 

[Lerugged]

Perhaps the inclusion of indica genetics occurred because a long time ago people brought landraces from the north down to Thailand. From what I've heard, the Afghan and other northern landraces were developed over a long period of time to be multi-purpose, meaning a variety of types: sativa dominant, indica dominant, fiber, medicine, food/oil. So the potency the Thai breeders were seeking could have come from genetics from the north, including indica genetics.

Note that "landrace" does not necessarily imply either sativa or indica. I.e. you can have a landrace that's a combination of sativa and indica genetics. Or to say that a different way, a "pure" sativa, for example, doesn't imply simply a landrace sativa—it implies an original landrace sativa. That's my understanding. An original landrace sativa, I suppose, would be genetically very close to a wild, pure sativa.

Correct. Indica genetics were introduced into Africa in the late 80 and 90's by greedy wees traders (dealers) because the airy sativa landraces in Africa did not have the bag appeal and were not bulky to provide mass. As some rural farmers grew the new strains from Europe the pollen slowly and surely polluted almost all of it. The landraces growing in most of Africa now is polluted to various degrees.

 

[Lerugged]

I don't think pure Sativas are my cup of tea..
I grew some Malawi, mainly because they advertised a psychedelic high... but I dunno this is like smoking hash, rather a sobering high, very fresh, very uplifting with the main problem if I smoke some of this I'm seeing Sunrise, I'm up and alert all night.
I mean I guess it's good to have stashed, I can see it being a useful stimulant on occasion.
But it's not what I'm looking for I need that little green troll with the hammer.

I just smoke more and more until I pass out. It is not for everyone thats for sure. It's perfect for me as indica makes me lazy and does not help with my tourettes like pure sativa does.

 

[Fenderbender]

But what's in a name?
Sativa means cultivated. And when you cultivate something how can you not select for traits? ask any farmer.. you use the strong animal to breed and use the seeds from the plant that produces the best or is more resistant.
Landrace means a cultivar by chance and nature? how long does is need to be like that, since forever? Is that indeed still possible with thousands of years of cultivation on this planet?
Genetically there's no sativa & indica.. so what are we really talking? a short & tall phenotype and how stable they are producing that type?
And where do those come from? different time zone? or one grown in lush forestry hence competing with other greenery, the other on a mountain, dry, harsh winds, prefers to be a stocky shrubbery.
But there's more as there are compound variations between strains, where do those come from? communication with other local flora? exposure times? UV differences?

 

[cbdhemp808]

But what's in a name?
Sativa means cultivated. And when you cultivate something how can you not select for traits? ask any farmer.. you use the strong animal to breed and use the seeds from the plant that produces the best or is more resistant.

Both names refer to species (as in family, genus, species). It's taxonomic classification. There once were wild sativas, which defies the meaning of "sativa". Likewise, wild indicas.

Landrace means a cultivar by chance and nature? how long does is need to be like that, since forever? Is that indeed still possible with thousands of years of cultivation on this planet?

I learned from a landrace expert that landrace means strains cultivated by humans in a particular geographic region, over a period of centuries, and in some cases, millennia. They are not wild cannabis.

Genetically there's no sativa & indica.. so what are we really talking? a short & tall phenotype and how stable they are producing that type?

Well, I think what they are saying is they haven't found a genetic signature (in the genome—i.e. the DNA) that codes for sativa-specific traits or indica-specific traits (including morphology and perceived effects on the human mind and body). That doesn't necessarily mean the genetic coding isn't there. I mean, something is driving the morphology (size/shape of plant, shape of leaflets), and it's inherited from one generation to the next. So that would pretty much imply that it's genetic! As for effects, I believe terpenes play a major role in that, along with the THC/CBD ratios.

I know I wrote about this before on the forum here (I'd have to search for it), but... I think the closer the genetics are to pure, original sativa or indica, the less likely will be phenotypic differences in the offspring (provided no contamination by random pollen). Also, phenotypic stability can be created by successive inbreeding—i.e. an inbred seed line (IBL).

And where do those come from? different time zone? or one grown in lush forestry hence competing with other greenery, the other on a mountain, dry, harsh winds, prefers to be a stocky shrubbery.
But there's more as there are compound variations between strains, where do those come from? communication with other local flora? exposure times? UV differences?

I think what you are describing are environmental factors, and while there is some impact on the growth of the plant, by and large there won't be radical differences in appearance, cannabinoids, terpenes, etc., provided the soil, sunlight, water, and climate are conducive to a "good grow". Stresses can cause differences, for example in the terpene profile, but also of course yield, potency, etc.

If on the other hand you are talking about phenotypes—the way I understand phenotypes is that it's an interplay between the genetic makeup and environmental factors. The genetic code produces a plant that responds a specific way to the soil, sunlight, water, and climate of a specific location. If you attempt to grow the phenotype in more-or-less radically different locations, you may get different results. But those differences will be within certain constraints. For example, if you plant two identical clones of a sativa (tall, narrow leaflets, stimulating effects)—one outdoors in Thailand and one outdoors in Denver, Colorado, both will grow like sativas, but there may differences in the cannabinoid and terpene profiles of the resulting buds.

 

[Fenderbender]

Well it's a taxonomic classification that means cultivated... if Linnaeus found them to be cultivated by people. no?
As lots of plants and herbs have that add on.

So then I would agree there are no real wild cannabis plant, and your definition of landrace yes I can see that more than it meaning wild.

But yeah I think we're talking basically about the phenos? as those would be the main differences between the strains.. observable characteristics from environmental pressure...and I would think a pure indica or sativa is just very stable in the characteristics she reproduces, and hybrids from those have their mixed structure but can sometimes still fluke out into one or the other phenotype more indica or sativa which would also indicate to me that the difference between the strains is phenomenal

 

[Lerugged]

learned from a landrace expert that landrace means strains cultivated by humans in a particular geographic region, over a period of centuries, and in some cases, millennia. They are not wild cannabis.

This is a perfect definition

 

[d333gs]

Ill jump in here with this; I hope it is ok to post a link to a seed company; World seed company; These prices look nuts
any thoughts on this sativa strain?

Wild Thailand - Landrace Seeds - Buy Cannabis Seeds

Wild Thailand is a variety of the islands of Ko Chang (Thailand). This is a cannabis plant with very high THC content. Highly valued by Asian growers for production and resistance to pests. Its powerful Sativa genetic and sweet taste, you will travel ...

www.worldofseeds.com

 

[andIhalped]

I've not had good luck germing their seeds...and I usually have no problem germing beans

 

[budnoob3]

Which strain is the most closest to what would be the original Sativa?
A-1 Haze?
And the strain Bruce Banner #3 is it closer related to sativas?
I want to know which is the best sativa strain on the earth!

Couldn’t say closest or best and would argue it’s nearly impossible to know. Closest to original because there are no documented cases from more than 7,000 years ago or so and best is an entirely subjective opinion. Best of luck finding your favorite though, that’s the best part of journey and I can assure you that will change over time

 

[Graytail]

Ill jump in here with this; I hope it is ok to post a link to a seed company; World seed company; These prices look nuts
any thoughts on this sativa strain?

Wild Thailand - Landrace Seeds - Buy Cannabis Seeds

Wild Thailand is a variety of the islands of Ko Chang (Thailand). This is a cannabis plant with very high THC content. Highly valued by Asian growers for production and resistance to pests. Its powerful Sativa genetic and sweet taste, you will travel ...

www.worldofseeds.com

I ran one when they were first offered (as freebies) and it was a dud pheno. Since then I've seen a few other examples here on the forum and they were fine. Decent Thais. but nothing special - not a standout example of a Thai. The best Thai genetics I know of, are the Ace Seed lines. They've been worked (interbred) for years, so not "landrace", but the intergenetics are valid, much like a tribe planting the best of last year's crop every new season, so ...

 

[budnoob3]

I will add that my personal favorites for several reasons include Blue Dream, Kosher Kush, and Chocolate OG as of right now for top 3, that could change at any time or moment Cheers

 

[Fenderbender]

I kinda want to say sure seems pretty OG now, last strain to talk coherently... although now I think of it kinda does leave an awful lot of long pauses.. the strain before that? oh nope... the 90's strain? that sure was a sweet talker...

 

[jimihendrix58]

MassMedicalStrains-Watermelon Hashplant-100% Nepali. Came from Bodhi, who personally brought i back from Nepal. Bodhi gave MMS the OK, to repopulate the seeds.
Khalifa Genetics Chellakutti. 18-25 weeks flowering. From Kerela.. If in USA. Seeds come from USA.
AKBeanBrains-Chocolate Thai Email Dave at dankortown@gmail.com.. or, are available from several seed vendors. I prefer to deal directly, as he gives way more free seeds. I usually ask for more of the same seeds.
AKBB also has Pre2000 Serious Seeds Kali Mist F5. All kinds of 80s-90s genetics.
Bandaid Haze #22- The Seed Source- Shaka Zulu
Massgrowah81-Strainly-Cubano Black

 

[cbdhemp808]

Well it's a taxonomic classification that means cultivated... if Linnaeus found them to be cultivated by people. no?
As lots of plants and herbs have that add on.

What I'm saying is, it doesn't matter what the name is. The name is just a label used in the classification of a species (or sub-species). Indicas were also cultivated of course. Both were wild at one point.

So then I would agree there are no real wild cannabis plant, and your definition of landrace yes I can see that more than it meaning wild.

I don't know if there are any true wild ones left somewhere on the planet [maybe in Tibet?], but there once were wild ones, because those are the origins of what we call sativa and indica today.

But yeah I think we're talking basically about the phenos? as those would be the main differences between the strains.. observable characteristics from environmental pressure...

I view phenos as both predictable and unpredictable genetic variations of a seed line. So, this is a genetic phenomenon. And then to a lesser degree the environment causes some variation when the seed grows out. Again, if you think about this using a "baseline" of normal, good growing conditions, then you'll get consistent results from a given phenotype. With some hybrids that have been turned into stable, inbred seed lines, you'll see very predictable phenotypes—usually at least two, but up to four or five. With an unstable seed line, the phenotypes will be more unpredictable, but will still be outcomes based on genes from both the parents.

and I would think a pure indica or sativa is just very stable in the characteristics she reproduces, and hybrids from those have their mixed structure but can sometimes still fluke out into one or the other phenotype more indica or sativa which would also indicate to me that the difference between the strains is phenomenal

But then the question is, what exactly is a "pure" sativa or "pure" indica? I'm attempting to answer that HERE. If by "pure" you mean closest genetically to a wild sativa or indica, then in a particular geographic area, one could imagine that the offspring will be genetically stable. However, once humans got involved, then pollen was mixing around all over the place, and then you have hybrids and cross-pollination, and then *poof* here comes the phenotypes.

 

[Fenderbender]

Ah I'll have a read, what I just was searching said they estimate Hops & Cannabis diverged from a common ancestor 28 million years ago, and Indica & Sativa diverged a million years ago.
Another thing reads Indica just means Plant from India and is short & bushy.. and that's why the eurotrash called them like that..
but yeah that's because conditions of the regions,
So when the cannabis got to that region it eventually diverged by growing different and reproducing like that all the time until she completely forgot how to grow like her old self and produced a bit of a different smell.. unless you cross pollinate her again with the strains that haven't grown there so long.. then she can grow taller again.. but it's all Cannabis Sativa.
That's what I'm getting from that. That grew there a million years and now it looks different.. I mean the same happened with people.
But I'll have a look at that link.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ah I'll have a read, what I just was searching said they estimate Hops & Cannabis diverged from a common ancestor 28 million years ago, and Indica & Sativa diverged a million years ago.

Ah, interesting that, on the divergence of indica and sativa.

...So when the cannabis sativa which was the only type got to that region it eventually diverged by growing different and reproducing like that all the time until she completely forgot how to grow like her old self and produced a bit of a different smell.. unless you cross pollinate her again then she can grow taller again.. but it's all Cannabis Sativa.

I agree, it all started with one species. And then there was evolutionary adaptation when the seed spread to areas that were dryer and colder, such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, northern India, and Nepal. This is how the indica subspecies emerged.