- Thread starter
- #101
Nice looking cobs Sue, I'll join when i find corn husks. None at local store.
I bought a pound from the rain forest dynamo. That way I always have them on hand.
Tangwena's Malawi-Style Cob Cure: Fermented Cannabis
- Thread starter SweetSue
- Start date
I bought a pound from the rain forest dynamo. That way I always have them on hand.
- Thread starter
- #102
So what did I learn?
* Soaking the husks gets them moist and pliable. Sometimes too pliable. Use caution or you'll rip them.
* Dry the husks with paper towels to get excess moisture out.
* Compress the hell out of the buds as you form them, before you wrap.
* If you fold the ends in from the sides at some point you'll keep everything contained better. My first one I rolled the buds in one husk that was closed over on the ends, and then wrapped it all up in another husk. I didn't do that with the second one and it would've made it easier. When I re-wrapped the first one I only used one husk, because it was already compressed. Next time I'll use two again.
* If you're doing canaries have husks to roll them up in ahead of time, then unwrap before sealing.
* Hemp wick makes excellent ties.
* Wrap in the same direction you rolled. If you do it the other way you'll understand.
* Don't be afraid to wrap the tie snugly. You want this cob compressed as much as possible before sealing it up.
* Double seal the bags, to limit any chance of the seal being compromised.
* An inverted plastic box, set on the heat mat with some sort of riser to keep the buds off the mat itself will function as a sweat box. I'm using two towels, and with three layers (the towels are folded in half) it's holding at 104.6 degrees F.
Using the shoe box on a 20" mat it took two hours to stabalize once I put the cobs in there. It hasn't moved from 104.6 for half an hour now.
* Set an alarm for 24 hours from the time you get heat stabilized.
I think that's it for now. I need to take a brief nap. Be back later.
* Soaking the husks gets them moist and pliable. Sometimes too pliable. Use caution or you'll rip them.
* Dry the husks with paper towels to get excess moisture out.
* Compress the hell out of the buds as you form them, before you wrap.
* If you fold the ends in from the sides at some point you'll keep everything contained better. My first one I rolled the buds in one husk that was closed over on the ends, and then wrapped it all up in another husk. I didn't do that with the second one and it would've made it easier. When I re-wrapped the first one I only used one husk, because it was already compressed. Next time I'll use two again.
* If you're doing canaries have husks to roll them up in ahead of time, then unwrap before sealing.
* Hemp wick makes excellent ties.
* Wrap in the same direction you rolled. If you do it the other way you'll understand.
* Don't be afraid to wrap the tie snugly. You want this cob compressed as much as possible before sealing it up.
* Double seal the bags, to limit any chance of the seal being compromised.
* An inverted plastic box, set on the heat mat with some sort of riser to keep the buds off the mat itself will function as a sweat box. I'm using two towels, and with three layers (the towels are folded in half) it's holding at 104.6 degrees F.
Using the shoe box on a 20" mat it took two hours to stabalize once I put the cobs in there. It hasn't moved from 104.6 for half an hour now.
* Set an alarm for 24 hours from the time you get heat stabilized.
I think that's it for now. I need to take a brief nap. Be back later.
lazyfish
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that the lab tests show percent by weight of the dried buds. The drier the bud the "more THC". I don't think the fermentation made more THC it just appears so. Also I think the fermentation may use up some of the buds between the active ingredients again giving more THC by weight.
Happy Hemper
Well-Known Member
I wonder what the sales numbers and demographics of Food Saver and other systems look like on a non-prohibitionist / prohibitionist states chart.I have all of my equipment on hand.
Just waiting on the girl.
Sometimes the mind wanders into curious wonders
Happy Hemper
Well-Known Member
COB makes me think of the Thai sticks ...way back thenVery intriguing! I’ve heard of fermented bud back in the 70s. The adults back then I knew use to say brings out the Devil in the Acapulco Gold. Maybe there’s some truth to it!
I’ll climb on board your ship, and watch from the observation deck. Great find!
- Thread starter
- #106
COB makes me think of the Thai sticks ...way back then
Have we tempted you to give one a try Happy Hemper?
My "nap" turned into bedtime. Lol! I think the excitement of the day wore me out. Haha! There was a point where I realized my hands were shaking as I sealed the bags, the adrenaline was running so strong.
Just turned out all the lights, after checking the temps in the sweat box, of course. At 2:10 AM she reads 103.1 degrees. It gets more chilly in the middle of a blustery night. Duly noted. Going back to bed.
- Thread starter
- #107
An interesting excerpt Dr. Grin spoon dug up. Tangwena's take was that Ed observed, but he didn't experiment.
"Interesting. Here is a chapter from one of Ed Rosenthals books. They mention several different ways of curing and fermenting cannabis.
This is only one of several different curing methods mentioned.
Temperature is in Fahrenheit.
Excerpt:
Fermentation
When vegetation dries, the individual cells which maintained life processes die. But marijuana can still be conditioned by means of fermentation. Fermentation is the process in which microbes and plant enzymes break down complex chemicals into simpler ones, mainly starch and sugars into alcohol and simple acids. In the process chlorophyll is destroyed, giving the material a more ripened appearance. If the fermentation is stopped early, the marijuana has a sweeter taste because of the sugars which the ferment produced.
Fermentation occurs when the moisture content of the marijuana is raised above 15 percent and the temperature is above 60 degrees. The more tightly packed the material, that faster the ferment proceeds. The rate of ferment is controlled primarily by varying the moisture content, but each batch proceeds at its own rate because of differences between plants in nitrogen content. (Nitrogen is necessary to maintain fermenting bacteria.) The process is delicate; should the ferment proceed too rapidly, the marijuana may be converted to compost. Watch the fermentation closely. After the desired colour or flavour (from a dried sample) is reached, dry the grass quickly to stop the process.
During fermentation, flavourings can be added to give the marijuana a spicy aroma. Such spices as cinnamon, cloves, ginger, mace, sage, or vanilla are placed between the fermenting material. Orange, lemon, or lime peels are also used. About half an ounce of spice or four ounces of peel are used for each cubic foot of material to be fermented. The spices are wrapped in cloth sachets. The citrus peels are strung. They can be placed between the layers of marijuana.
There are two types of fermentations: self-generating and forced. They are best used with leaves or immature plants."
"Interesting. Here is a chapter from one of Ed Rosenthals books. They mention several different ways of curing and fermenting cannabis.
This is only one of several different curing methods mentioned.
Temperature is in Fahrenheit.
Excerpt:
Fermentation
When vegetation dries, the individual cells which maintained life processes die. But marijuana can still be conditioned by means of fermentation. Fermentation is the process in which microbes and plant enzymes break down complex chemicals into simpler ones, mainly starch and sugars into alcohol and simple acids. In the process chlorophyll is destroyed, giving the material a more ripened appearance. If the fermentation is stopped early, the marijuana has a sweeter taste because of the sugars which the ferment produced.
Fermentation occurs when the moisture content of the marijuana is raised above 15 percent and the temperature is above 60 degrees. The more tightly packed the material, that faster the ferment proceeds. The rate of ferment is controlled primarily by varying the moisture content, but each batch proceeds at its own rate because of differences between plants in nitrogen content. (Nitrogen is necessary to maintain fermenting bacteria.) The process is delicate; should the ferment proceed too rapidly, the marijuana may be converted to compost. Watch the fermentation closely. After the desired colour or flavour (from a dried sample) is reached, dry the grass quickly to stop the process.
During fermentation, flavourings can be added to give the marijuana a spicy aroma. Such spices as cinnamon, cloves, ginger, mace, sage, or vanilla are placed between the fermenting material. Orange, lemon, or lime peels are also used. About half an ounce of spice or four ounces of peel are used for each cubic foot of material to be fermented. The spices are wrapped in cloth sachets. The citrus peels are strung. They can be placed between the layers of marijuana.
There are two types of fermentations: self-generating and forced. They are best used with leaves or immature plants."
- Thread starter
- #108
Sorry. I need to load them into our gallery first. 
I'll do that in the morning. Forcing myself to step away from the iPad.
Or now. Good point about these lazyfish. I'll come back in the morning and look at it more closely.
Uncobbed
Cobbed:
Goodnight all.
I'll do that in the morning. Forcing myself to step away from the iPad.
Or now.
Good point about these lazyfish. I'll come back in the morning and look at it more closely. Uncobbed
Cobbed:
Goodnight all.
repuk
Well-Known Member
Hello all
Lovely results and impressive skills SweetSue!
I suggested this same idea, using an inert gas like CO2 to displace air when using mason jars, good take on the nitrogen! Safest to play with, and equally easy to source.
This will only be done when fermenting/sweating loose buds inside a mason jar, avoiding the need for a dangerous vacuum that may cause implosion if strong enough (glass container!).
Vacuum is a key point in cobbing. To prevent mold, rot or composting, the fermentation should be kept strictly anaerobic.
Not sure on the washing step, specially for indoor plants. You need the natural microbes/yeasts flora already on the buds, so that they spread once cobbed and sweated.
Even if N prevents thermogenesis (that's why is used to fill car tires) I wonder what the interaction with the actual fermentation will be, as yeasts/microbes "eat" nitrogen (though we seek them to "eat" the N salts already in the buds....). Can't recall reading about N in the thread though (not a surprise given the secondary effects of our beloved plant
Husks are possibly the best material to use. My take is along the sweat and fermentation stages, everything is dissolved in a "soup" that permeates all plant matter. Then by the effects of vacuum, capilarity, and the offgassing of the sweat/fermentation that "soup" kinds of "boils" impregnating all the cob, whose cellulose remnants become just a sustrate. Husks promote greater surface area, are permeable and can possibly have antimicrobial properties; in fact corn uses it to protect its fruits too... and as possibly final flavor is impacted by the cobbing material, what better material to use than one nature designed itself for the task...
Lovely results and impressive skills SweetSue!
I suggested this same idea, using an inert gas like CO2 to displace air when using mason jars, good take on the nitrogen! Safest to play with, and equally easy to source.
This will only be done when fermenting/sweating loose buds inside a mason jar, avoiding the need for a dangerous vacuum that may cause implosion if strong enough (glass container!).
Vacuum is a key point in cobbing. To prevent mold, rot or composting, the fermentation should be kept strictly anaerobic.
Not sure on the washing step, specially for indoor plants. You need the natural microbes/yeasts flora already on the buds, so that they spread once cobbed and sweated.
Even if N prevents thermogenesis (that's why is used to fill car tires) I wonder what the interaction with the actual fermentation will be, as yeasts/microbes "eat" nitrogen (though we seek them to "eat" the N salts already in the buds....). Can't recall reading about N in the thread though (not a surprise given the secondary effects of our beloved plant
Husks are possibly the best material to use. My take is along the sweat and fermentation stages, everything is dissolved in a "soup" that permeates all plant matter. Then by the effects of vacuum, capilarity, and the offgassing of the sweat/fermentation that "soup" kinds of "boils" impregnating all the cob, whose cellulose remnants become just a sustrate. Husks promote greater surface area, are permeable and can possibly have antimicrobial properties; in fact corn uses it to protect its fruits too... and as possibly final flavor is impacted by the cobbing material, what better material to use than one nature designed itself for the task...
- Thread starter
- #110
Hello all
I suggested this same idea, using an inert gas like CO2 to displace air when using mason jars, good take on the nitrogen! Safest to play with, and equally easy to source.
This will only be done when fermenting/sweating loose buds inside a mason jar, avoiding the need for a dangerous vacuum that may cause implosion if strong enough (glass container!).
Vacuum is a key point in cobbing. To prevent mold, rot or composting, the fermentation should be kept strictly anaerobic.
Not sure on the washing step, specially for indoor plants. You need the natural microbes/yeasts on the buds, so that they spread once cobbed and sweated.
Even if N prevents thermogenesis (that's why is used to fill car tires) I wonder what the interaction with the actual fermentation, as yeasts/microbes "eat" nitrogen (though we seek them to "eat" the N already in the buds....
Husks are possibly the best material to use. My take is along the sweat and fermentation stages, everything is dissolved in a "soup" that permeates all plant matter. Then by the effects of vacuum, capilarity, and the offgassing that "soup" kinds of "boils" impregnating all the cob, which becomes a substrate with the cellulose remnants. Husks promote greater surface area, are permeable and can possibly have antimicrobial properties; in fact corn uses it to protect its fruits too...
repuk... hehehe! This made me actually jump for joy. Lol!
Welcome to our own little brainstorming session.
I contemplated washing and then wondered if it would disturb the biosphere that scientists now believe is the reason cannabis grows the way it does. It turns out the microbes on the plants are as important as the microbes in our skin.
This recent harvest was a hempy. No foliars were used. My soil plants get occasional foliars. They’ll need washed at some point.
Hmmmm.... this community is somewhat passionate about bud washing. We’ll have to rethink that.
What does everyone think about a plant wash, say a week or so before harvest? That might not disrupt as much as the H2O2 would at harvest.
Welcome repuk, thanks for the great info and helping our crew here at the mag get a handle on this.
I am one that bud washes since our growing method requires foliar spraying of basically liquid fish for the entire grow cycle, even days before harvest, I have to bud wash. In a nut shell, it's a 3 or 4 part wash, the 1st is 1/2 cup of baking soda and a 1/2 cup of lemon juice mixed in 2.5 gallons of pure water, stage 2 and 3 are a pure water rinse. If powdery mildew was present then step 1 becomes a 4:1ratio of H2o: H2o2 followed by the baking soda lemon juice. There are variations on this method but that's how I do it. I don't usually use the H2o2 wash and that's the step that kills all the yeasts and microbes. I don't see anything in the lemon juice and baking soda that would kill any beneficial microbes we are looking for when we cob.
A question on the canary cob. My brief understanding is that it is there to judge the color of the cob. Since that isn't wrapped in a cob does the color really match what is happening in the cobbed one?
I am one that bud washes since our growing method requires foliar spraying of basically liquid fish for the entire grow cycle, even days before harvest, I have to bud wash. In a nut shell, it's a 3 or 4 part wash, the 1st is 1/2 cup of baking soda and a 1/2 cup of lemon juice mixed in 2.5 gallons of pure water, stage 2 and 3 are a pure water rinse. If powdery mildew was present then step 1 becomes a 4:1ratio of H2o: H2o2 followed by the baking soda lemon juice. There are variations on this method but that's how I do it. I don't usually use the H2o2 wash and that's the step that kills all the yeasts and microbes. I don't see anything in the lemon juice and baking soda that would kill any beneficial microbes we are looking for when we cob.
A question on the canary cob. My brief understanding is that it is there to judge the color of the cob. Since that isn't wrapped in a cob does the color really match what is happening in the cobbed one?
- Thread starter
- #112
Can't do more than compose on the phone and the iPad types slow as pouring liquid sunflower lecithin. *sigh*
- Thread starter
- #113
I suppose I need to clarify that we have a couple different methods of budwashing. Neiko describes the common approach and I use a simple dilution of H2O2. Obviously my method would be a major disruption.
Neiko, you may have me switching back. Lol!
Neiko, you may have me switching back. Lol!
And another question, I haven't seen this brought up so.......when the cob is "done" what is the method to store it? Do you just break it up and store it in jar? I get you can leave them vac sealed for long term storage but what about the cobs you are actively using?
- Thread starter
- #115
Hmmm.....lost that post somewhere. If it turns up on someone's grow journal let me know.Lol!
Sweat box fun
I've been playing with the sweat box, which has been performing wonderfully. For the most part it holds nicely at 104 degrees once it's up to temperature.
Too hot? Take a layer or two off.
Too cold? Add on a layer or two.
When I forced myself to go back to bed at 4 AM the temps were coldest, dropping to around 102, so I covered it and went to slip between the sheets. Four hours later it had spiked to 107. A couple hours of higher temps won't hurt much. I've gotten it back down to 104.
Wanna peek inside? You know you do. Lol!
Just over 10 hours to go.
Sweat box fun
I've been playing with the sweat box, which has been performing wonderfully. For the most part it holds nicely at 104 degrees once it's up to temperature.
Too hot? Take a layer or two off.
Too cold? Add on a layer or two.
When I forced myself to go back to bed at 4 AM the temps were coldest, dropping to around 102, so I covered it and went to slip between the sheets. Four hours later it had spiked to 107. A couple hours of higher temps won't hurt much. I've gotten it back down to 104.
Wanna peek inside?
You know you do. Lol! Just over 10 hours to go.
I despise trying to type anything on 420 anymore. Great Ganga forbid I make a mistake and try to backtrack to correct it. Easier to publish and edit than try to back up a few spaces. Slow a** POS.
BTW, that's lecithin that's been refrigerated right ?
So I don't have the focus to reply to everything right now but a couple quick points that stand out.
@lazyfish found a study on the sweating of tobacco leaves that was very interesting. In that process increased heat and moisture are used to change the compounds inside the leaf material. They talk about trying to determine the actual cause, microbial vs enzymic etc by steam sterilizing samples or otherwise testing the leafs prior to sweating. Nitrogen storage is mentioned briefly in the beginning as a control for limiting the thermogenic activity to help determine it's role in the process. By the end of it it sounds like they still don't really know what causes the moist heated tobacco leaves to change color and take on more desirable smoking qualities.
Canning jars are capable of handling a vacuum and the chances of implosion vs explosion seem minimal when most N tanks(not regulators) are hundreds of psi vs 29" vac
@lazyfish found a study on the sweating of tobacco leaves that was very interesting. In that process increased heat and moisture are used to change the compounds inside the leaf material. They talk about trying to determine the actual cause, microbial vs enzymic etc by steam sterilizing samples or otherwise testing the leafs prior to sweating. Nitrogen storage is mentioned briefly in the beginning as a control for limiting the thermogenic activity to help determine it's role in the process. By the end of it it sounds like they still don't really know what causes the moist heated tobacco leaves to change color and take on more desirable smoking qualities.
BigBearNTexas
Well-Known Member
Hydrogen peroxide at the dilution used for bud washing probably isn’t strong enough to kill bacteria in the time the wash is in contact with the plant material. Assuming one is starting with 3% H2O2, at a 1:3 mix it will be at .75%, and even less at a 1:4 or 1:5 dilution (math is hard - can’t figure the percentage in my head).
My thought is that bud washing is more of a mechanical/physical process, and not a chemical/antiseptic process, and so there should be plenty of microbes left to grow for fermentation.
My thought is that bud washing is more of a mechanical/physical process, and not a chemical/antiseptic process, and so there should be plenty of microbes left to grow for fermentation.
A few thoughts....
Can't one just wash the plant at harvest, hang it for a few days and cob away? Am I missing some idea here?
I don't have a heating mat, so the idea of using a light as a heat source inside a box with some sort of cover over the fermenting MJ to keep the light away seems like a workable option. I'll kick those tires soon and give it a try. I just dug up my vacuum pump thingy that's 20yrs old, yet never opened..... one of the odd little bits that survived the storm.
Can't one just wash the plant at harvest, hang it for a few days and cob away? Am I missing some idea here?
I don't have a heating mat, so the idea of using a light as a heat source inside a box with some sort of cover over the fermenting MJ to keep the light away seems like a workable option. I'll kick those tires soon and give it a try. I just dug up my vacuum pump thingy that's 20yrs old, yet never opened..... one of the odd little bits that survived the storm.
lazyfish
Well-Known Member
Hey! repuk is here! Welcome!