SweetSue's Perpetual 2.0 - The Transition To Doc Bud's HBB Kit

[Skullman420]

As a migraine patient throughout most of my life, I know that if you want to stop it, you need to act fast. When I feel the first signs I have like 15-20 minutes to take painkillers. If I don't the migraine will take over everything and I'll be put down for the rest of the day. So I always have a few paracetanols laying around in case I feel those first migraine signs.

 

[SweetSue]

Oh Sue... I think I would definitaly kill that plant and use a new seed, you see. this virus (Fun fact - This was actually the very first virus humanity discovered although the disease was already known a long time before we even knew what a virus was) The infection spreads by direct contact to the neighboring cells. It can also spread through phloem for longer distance movement within the plant. Moreover, TMV can be transmitted from one plant to another by direct contact. Although TMV does not have defined transmission vectors, the virus can be easily transmitted from the infected hosts to the healthy plants, by human handling.

I was under the impression that I couldn't spread it to any other plant unless I used unsterile cutters and went to another plant after using the cutting tool on the infected plant. Is it a fact that it can be spread by simple physical contact? If so, I'm surprised, because it hasn't spread to any other plant excepting the clone I have in veg.

This one is stronger than the mother, and will have another three weeks in veg, if I keep her going.

Graytail, I see you lurking. What would you advise? It's not like I have any shortage of seeds to replace her with or plants to take up the space she holds, but she's already over a month in kit soil, and if she's a safe one, I don't mind being careful with her to prevent cross-contamination with tools.

 

[Skullman420]

Robert Bergman (author of the grow bible) seem to be under the impression that this needs to be contained and that it spreads very easily. I actually laughed a little while reading this It seems a little bit too much to me:

Tobacco Mosaic Virus On Marijuana Plants
Robert Bergman
In this article we will discuss:

What is the tobacco mosaic virus?
Signs of TMV
How to cure TMV
Marijuana plant symptoms
The tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) is a disease that attacks not only marijuana plants, but also tomato, pepper, eggplant, tobacco, spinach, petunia, and marigold.

It isn't very selective, but it does have a high impact. Read this article and learn how to recognize and treat TVM.


What is the tobacco mosaic virus?
What is the tobacco mosaic virus on weed

The tobacco mosaic virus is, as its name hints, a type of virus. It can live in contaminated soil, infected plant debris, the coating of a seed, and even in tobacco products that have been manufactured. The virus travels between plants generally through a mechanical cause.

Your hands can even spread the infection. If you unknowingly work with an infected plant and then come in contact (or your clothes or tools come in contact) with a healthy marijuana plant, the healthy plant has a high chance of catching the virus.

Some insects may also be carriers of the virus, but aphids are not one of them. It's generally insects that will chew on your plant.

Signs of tobacco mosaic virus on weed plants

You will know that your marijuana plant has the tobacco mosaic virus by its green mottled areas on the leaves. These mottled areas are both dark and light green and are caused by the presence of the virus. Oftentimes the dark parts of the leaf are physically thicker than the lighter parts. Additionally, if the leaf is underneath shade than it is easier for the grower to spot the discoloration.

Tobacco Mosaic Virus causes stunted growth in young plants, and may distort the leaves into a fern-like shape. Older leaves, on the other hand, may be a bit distorted, but they mostly just curl downwards.

Depending on the virus strain, buds might also be mottled, streaked, or show signs of necrosis. While plants that are affected won't be killed by the virus, they will have worse buds and, therefore, worse yields. Not sure if your marijuana plants suffer from a TVM infection? Check the article Marijuana diseases for a list with pictures of all possible marijuana diseases

How to cure tvm on cannabis

Unfortunately, once your plants are infected with a virus, there is not much you can do about it. Virus diseases simply can't be controlled once they have been transmitted. This is why it is particularly important to prevent the virus from infecting your plants in the first place.

Your best weapons against the transmitting of this disease are sanitation and caution. If you do discover a plant that has been infected, you should remove it from the rest of your garden at once. If caught early enough, this should stop the spread of the tobacco mosaic virus.

Download my free marijuana grow guide at this link for more growing tips

If you or anyone else uses tobacco or has worked with plant material that was infected, they should wash their hands with soap and water. This will prevent it from spreading to any other plants they are handling.


Marijuana plant symptoms
Leaf Color:
— Brown, burnt edges
— Pale color
— Yellowing of new growth
— Yellowing of lower, older leaves
— Yellowing between veins
— Dark or purple in color
— Black or gray patches
— White powdery patches
— Brown, dark spots
— Mottling, mosaic pattern

Leaf Symptoms:
— Upper, newer growth affected
— Lower, older growth affected
— Burnt leaf edges
— Burnt leaf tips
— Death of leaf tips
— Yellowing between veins
— White powdery patches
— Red stems
— Spots
— Mottling, mosaic pattern
— Old leaves fall off
— Slowed growth
— Twisted, abnormal growth
— Leaves curling under or upwards
— Wilting, drooping
— Webbing on leaves

Plant Symptoms:
— Red or purple stems
— Weakened stems
— Old leaves falling off
— Slowed growth
— Twisted, abnormal growth
— Wilting or drooping
— Slowed root growth

Other Symptoms:
— Webbing
— Bugs
— Mold
— Buds not getting fatter

In case you are someone who uses tobacco practices due to cultural practices, you should avoid these practices altogether while you are growing marijuana plants. The tobacco mosaic virus can sit steadily and stably in manufactured tobacco, so this is a crucial step in preventing the spread of this virus to your plants. It's best to not touch tobacco until the growing season is over.

Remember that plants with strong genetics have less change of getting sick and are less vulnerable for pests and diseases. So make sure to buy marijuana seeds from a trusted seed bank.

 

[SweetSue]

As a migraine patient throughout most of my life, I know that if you want to stop it, you need to act fast. When I feel the first signs I have like 15-20 minutes to take painkillers. If I don't the migraine will take over everything and I'll be put down for the rest of the day. So I always have a few paracetanols laying around in case I feel those first migraine signs.

Ouch! I'd so much rather reach for cannabis. Have you not found a strain that stops them? Thankfully, I don't even get headaches. I live in an atmosphere of joy. When I doubt myself something might get through, but I've a fairly strong grip on that joyful vibration as my default setting. This attitude keeps most stress at bay. Stress=inflammation=pain.

I've been researching migraine lately, trying to gain a greater understanding of the involvement of the ECS and how best to apply cannabis to gain relief. The daughter used to suffer daily pain and enjoyed migraines that laid her up for days. She lived on Tylenol, adverse to trying anything more powerful. How delighted we were to find that taking 4 capsules a day of the CBD Critical Cure infused oil her migraines became the stuff of memory. She's had all of two minor ones since we started her regimen last year.

That ocular disturbance has settled. No other concerns have reared up demanding attention. I appear to be fine. It made me wonder what Peter Max had going on when he did his psychedelic paintings. Lol!

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you so much DeVille. I laughed too. I particularly smiled at this tidbit

"While plants that are affected won’t be killed by the virus, they will have worse buds and, therefore, worse yields."

This plant had the thickest, densest buds of any Carnival I've grown to date.

And I have a whole line of them.

Marijuana bible notwithstanding, I think I just proved Bob wrong on this point. I have yet to see it jump to a neighboring plant, so I'm a little skeptical there as well, but I don't crowd my plants either, although this plant was in direct contact with the others in the tents with it. The statement about the soil concerns me. I'll reclaim this soil when I'm done with it and try another plant in it. If that plant shows signs of TMV I'll retire the soil. This is a distinct advantage in reclaiming the soil one pot at a time instead of as a full batch. It makes for a lot of totes one has to find space for.

How many other neighbors do you think I have with six totes of soil sitting around the living space?

 

[Graytail]

I first heard about TMV from PotChimp, and I watched his plants and read that same article DeVille posted. Since then, I've brought it up a couple times to growers that had similar symptoms, but ... dunno. I haven't seen that mottling you have in other grows, Sue. PotChimps plants were obviously weird - they were half and half pale, only one side of a leaf, and they'd curl to one side because of it. None of his had that general mottling, but the description includes it.

When I have these questions to mull over, I usually hear Doc say "cull it" with a bored look and a shrug. We get attached to the possible future of a particular plant and we want to play nurse. That's sweet but dumb.

So the choice is a feeble, probably diseased harvest a couple months from now, or no harvest at all. There's also some education involved if you keep it, but ... peace of mind ain' so bad either ...

We all know what the right answer is, but doing the right thing is usually really boring.

 

[Skullman420]

I never had it so I don't know really. But I think I would kill it

 

[Hash Hound]

I'll be certain to wash my hands really well now that I've been all over it. Why so much loss in your early gardens Hash Hound? Air movement problems or crowding?

Hash, why do you think you got it at such a high rate back then. Were you making a mistake you weren't aware of?

our first few grows we had no clue what it was until it was to late and it spread.

The weak link of our grows was always environment. What ever it was in the basement was what it was in the grow room.
Humidity, heat, cold, just like outdoors what it is is what it is.
Plus it was actually in a bathroom shower stall, maybe some funky spores lingering around or creeping up from the drain,,,ewwww.

Some of the real fat single cola plants (fatter than a pringles can) had it so deep we didn't even see it until we were manicuring.

We noticed where ever we saw that beige spot, we'd to start checking the plants.
After a while, we knew starting week 7 to pull the plants out and inspect real good. That's when it was usually the first signs of the beige spot. Catching it early enough to only loose a bud or two.

And I learned rather than grabbing a bud with my hand and spreading a bud open to inspect, to just grab a leaf and pull it a little to spread the bud, Less finger contact to spread spores.

a little hard to see in the pic, but when you see it in person, you'll know what I mean

 

[SweetSue]

I first heard about TMV from PotChimp, and I watched his plants and read that same article DeVille posted. Since then, I've brought it up a couple times to growers that had similar symptoms, but ... dunno. I haven't seen that mottling you have in other grows, Sue. PotChimps plants were obviously weird - they were half and half pale, only one side of a leaf, and they'd curl to one side because of it. None of his had that general mottling, but the description includes it.

When I have these questions to mull over, I usually hear Doc say "cull it" with a bored look and a shrug. We get attached to the possible future of a particular plant and we want to play nurse. That's sweet but dumb.

So the choice is a feeble, probably diseased harvest a couple months from now, or no harvest at all. There's also some education involved if you keep it, but ... peace of mind ain' so bad either ...

We all know what the right answer is, but doing the right thing is usually really boring.

Thanks, I needed that. I'm going to cull her. I'll toss the soil into a bin, keep it moist and use it for the next plant. That Carn 4.1 has a couple nice potential clones I can root, so I'll do that.

Graytail, do you think the soil is problamatic? This was the first I'd heard that the soil could be a concern.

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

I like to live dangerously when it comes to humidity, in my flower box, plants at week 5 and 6, my 24 hour minimum yesterday was 71% high was 80% when my fan failed I hit 95%. It was watering day and it's been very humid here of late.

I have quite the wind blowing through there tho

 

[Randoobula]

Ok, this makes sense. We had a weather change this year, and it's been much more humid than normal for the Pittsburgh region. The last few weeks have been so humid I had the humidifiers turned off and we were still hitting around 60% a couple of those days. I really don't want to invest in a dehumidifier too. I'll plan to make better use of the fans in future.

I believe this was a problem with this plant because it was so tightly packed. I'd originally intended to veg it for another month, but flipped the lights by mistake and didn't realize that for a full ten days, when she sprouted flowers. That meant she never got the chance to grow open.

Sorry this happened to you too Sue! Did I read earlier that you first thought a top had just dried out? If so, same here. In fact the first top bud that did this was like 4 weeks ago and I thought it was due to heat and to much direct air flow. I actually pinched of the tip and it went right into a bowl. What a sweet treat I thought... right off the plant and I to the bowl!

Then last week I saw another and still didn't think anything of it until I saw a brown bud mid way up a cola and it stuck out like a turd in a punch bowl! I cut it out and sprayed the site with H202 and cut off and inspected the fired top I'd partaken of. It looked fine inside, although the center of its stem was brown. I cut it back and just another quarter in the center of stem looked healthy again.

I believe it WAS just dried out and whatever the problem or disease it must have cut off anything getting to bud so it died and dried.

I wasn't taking any chances so I chopped her, but if it wasn't the ideal time it appears it was close. I'm happy with it.

I don't think I'd jump the gun again. These plants are SO resilient and only ask is for patience and love and attention. Given half a chance they will do their best for us. I wish I'd have just waited and kept treating those areas with H202 and keep checking for any spread.

Whatever you decide to do... good luck!!

 

[Randoobula]

Ok thanks. I hate that my RH is as high as it is right now in middle to late flower (60-65%). It has me constantly worried. I keep good air flow with one fan below the canopy and one fan above the canopy.

It's been a cool and rainy spring and early summer here in Anchorage. It was shortly after my humidities hit between 60-65% that I found my bud rot. I will need to buy that portable air conditioner/dehumidifier I've been considering.

I've had two tower oscillating fans blowing on high with good coverage throughout flower, but they could handle more. Even then, when cabinet is closed for 12 hours with that humidity level, I doubt hurricane force winds would help.

Don't want to increase your concern Van. I think that from what I've learned in my first I would not advise anyone to go scrog on their first grow. Because I had white mildew I removed my netting and didn't replace it because I wanted the ability to rotate plants for even light and air circulation. Now I know to look for first signs of bud rot as well.

We don't know till we know just how well dialed we have our environments and it takes time to get to know how our strains grow.

Simply training with coated wires I was able to keep a level canopy and it wasn't till the very end that I've had some heavier colas lean over a bit. That might ease your mind a bit if you could visually inspect the whole plants at this point. Just a thought.

 

[Van Stank]

It hasn't been this high up until now, I just started my dehumidifier in the tent, going to see if that makes any difference. I haven't seen any sign of anything bad on any colas, I look at the front three plants daily.

 

[SweetSue]

I like to live dangerously when it comes to humidity, in my flower box, plants at week 5 and 6, my 24 hour minimum yesterday was 71% high was 80% when my fan failed I hit 95%. It was watering day and it's been very humid here of late.

I have quite the wind blowing through there tho

Wow MrAm4zin!!! That would make me really nervous. Lol! My hat's off to your courage and fortitude.

Sorry this happened to you too Sue! Did I read earlier that you first thought a top had just dried out? If so, same here. In fact the first top bud that did this was like 4 weeks ago and I thought it was due to heat and to much direct air flow. I actually pinched of the tip and it went right into a bowl. What a sweet treat I thought... right off the plant and I to the bowl!

Then last week I saw another and still didn't think anything of it until I saw a brown bud mid way up a cola and it stuck out like a turd in a punch bowl! I cut it out and sprayed the site with H202 and cut off and inspected the fired top I'd partaken of. It looked fine inside, although the center of its stem was brown. I cut it back and just another quarter in the center of stem looked healthy again.

I believe it WAS just dried out and whatever the problem or disease it must have cut off anything getting to bud so it died and dried.

I wasn't taking any chances so I chopped her, but if it wasn't the ideal time it appears it was close. I'm happy with it.

I don't think I'd jump the gun again. These plants are SO resilient and only ask is for patience and love and attention. Given half a chance they will do their best for us. I wish I'd have just waited and kept treating those areas with H202 and keep checking for any spread.

Whatever you decide to do... good luck!!

The plant with bud rot is cleaned (washed in a dilution of H2O2) and in the fridge to dry low and slo Randy. I don't have any fears about it spreading, and now I'll be more alert to environment than before. I really believe this was a problem because this particular plant was too dense. She never had the chance to be trained in the way I'd intended, which would have been to lay her out horizontally. I use the clothes hanger pins, like you. Love those for training.

Graytail and I had discussed culling this damaged genetic line before. These two specimens infected with TMV just piss him off. Lol! It doesn't make sense that the loudest champion of this lovely strain keep such a poor specimen growing in soil that could be put to better use. There's just no good reason to keep the line going when I have so many other options, including the cloning of a better Carnival specimen working her way to flip.

 

[Hash Hound]

..... I really believe this was a problem because this particular plant was too dense. .....

Those darn COBs are making your buds to big and fat Sue

this was the case when a lot was lost. The downside of a big main cola plant.
That's where the weights at though.

my second grow was 12/12 from seed which will make plants lean toward the big cola side.
I lost a huge section of the middle of the main cola of Papaya.

This was a the Papaya I lost close to an ounce of right in the middle of that main cola.
No signs on the outside, but the middle third of that cola was loaded with it,
This is also when I was first growing and read never pull of any leaf. (pre defol days)
Probably one of my bigger yields.

 

[SweetSue]

Those darn COBs are making your buds to big and fat Sue

this was the case when a lot was lost. The downside of a big main cola plant.
That's where the weights at though.

my second grow was 12/12 from seed which will make plants lean toward the big cola side.
I lost a huge section of the middle of the main cola of Papaya.

This was a the Papaya I lost close to an ounce of right in the middle of that main cola.
No signs on the outside, but the middle third of that cola was loaded with it,
This is also when I was first growing and read never pull of any leaf. (pre defol days)
Probably one of my bigger yields.

That's an incredible plant Hash Hound. Do you think that yield had anything to do with the lack of defol? I don't do much defoliation these days, excepting at flip or if there're insects I need to eliminate.

I found a small amount of rot in one other cola, minuscule in comparison. It made me glad I was cutting the colas down for the low and slo. If I'd hung them to dry...... I feel lucky to have only lost the small amount I did. She's all diced up and in the fridge drying.

 

[Hash Hound]

In the beginning I went by the book/s

Had I never found online grow forums, I would never have heard of defol.

I have had good results both ways, but for that grow I had the Papaya and Superskunk both yield 4ozs without touching them.

these were grown in organic soil with OC+ and fed with molasses

same grow had a heavy indica Vanilla kush only yiled 1.5 and lost rot to that also

after rot topping and defol

 

[Tomster420]

You know Hash Hound, my brain was all over powdery mildew. I wasn't thinking "Bud rot" at all. It's something I've never encountered before, but it is, indeed, what occurred. Your post put the chill into my veins and I went right out and clipped it off to investigate more closely.

I lost nearly all of the top. That hurt, I'll admit. Anybody versed in what causes bud rot?

Sorry for the loss but I know bud rot when I see it. Humidity and lack of air-flow are usually the major causes for bud rot. At least you didn't lose a whole cola!

 

[SweetSue]

Sorry for the loss but I know bud rot when I see it. Humidity and lack of air-flow are usually the major causes for bud rot. At least you didn't lose a whole cola!

Amen to that Night. I should have listened to you earlier, but she was due to come down anyway. Now I know what to look for. And, I'll be more careful about environment.

 

[MagicJim]

Sorry for the loss but I know bud rot when I see it. Humidity and lack of air-flow are usually the major causes for bud rot. At least you didn't lose a whole cola!

and will usually show up with a spike in temperature. At least that's been my experience.