SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[Nixie]

Hi Nixie - your question is difficult to answer. There are many many methods for extraction all of which have their supporters and detractors.

To narrow the scope of possible answers would you mind sharing some background? Are you taking medical cannabis now? How do you take it? What do you take? How often? What dose ? Are you able to grow your own? What types of products do you have access to (if you are buying it)?

Hi Oldbear - I have ovarian cancer and despite being helped a lot by chemotherapy over the last 10 months or so, I have come to the end of the road as regards the usefulness of chemotherapy. I have been in touch with Mara Gordon's people and have a protocol ready to follow - CBD (which I can buy legally) and THC (which I can't). I am therefore just coming to the flowering stage of my first very amateur but very gratifying, hopefully lifesaving stealth grow - 3 autos in flower of which one (West Coast O.G.) is head and shoulders above the other two; plus 4 photoperiod waiting for the autos to clear the decks so I can attempt to flower them.

I know, I know - I did it all wrong, but the photoperiod ones were freebie seeds and I just couldn't resist...

I took my first ever taste of leisure cannabis the other night in the oil extraction from the scrag leaves and prunings. (Unless you count the spliff handed round at the party 40 years ago which I in my innocence thought was funny tasting tobacco) I have got to get my THC dose up to - I think it is 90mg a day over the next few weeks - will have to look it up - so I'm just itching for harvest. But I then have to learn an extraction method to get the best out of my little crop. I am growing for speed and high THC, in a very confined space.

CBD I can buy (come payday!) and will be able to start this as a full regime in about a fortnight. I tried it previously as an aid during chemo and as a bit of an experiment to see whether I could tolerate it - and it certainly did something; in fact I now suspect that it contributed to an unusually low CA125 (cancer marker) count during chemo. At the time I thought I wasn't taking enough to be significant, but based on modern notions of lower dosages I was probably wrong. Finances prevented me from keeping up the dose, along with the realisation that I also needed THC - but now I am just about able to go ahead.

It is a very steep learning curve but all the signs are good.

Mara Gordon's protocol is to take cannabis under the tongue, but I will add biobombs to that (and probably fresh leaves as well, when they are available). In fact I don't fancy routinely taking the gloop I made the other night, any other way - I think it was the oil rather than the cannabis that made it taste so gruesome - but it got me looking at the other methods of extraction and realising that there are an awful lot of them. Plus the bought-in CBD takes different forms - some is really nice - you could use it as salad oil - lemony or nutty - other sorts smell like a compost heap. So even with buying in a product I have a lot to learn.

 

[Nixie]

One thing I would add - the most obvious good effects in terms of controlling the chemo side effects came from the CBDa-rich products, so I sort of discounted the CBD - guaranteed-no-THC highly purified stuff and thought that was not the way to go, whether buying in or producing at home. But I now realise the low CA125 count was after I had been taking this rather rarified product which I had been seeing as somehow not the real thing. So now I'm not sure...

 

[Oldbear]

Nixie what may be a good starting point for you is a simple extraction using olive oil. It allows you to use it sublingually, plus you can combine that with the cbd oil you have.

I prefer small batches during the early stages where you are figuring out the dose amounts.

You may wish to read the first few pages of this one:

A Base Treatment Regimen for Cancer

 

[Oldbear]

Secret family recipe:

Many suggest decarbing the plant material in the oven by setting it on a baking sheet. The downside imo is that the odour is very strong which suggests a burn off of terpenes and trichomes. Some use oven roasting bags to minimize that.

What I do is to cover the plant material with olive oil (could be grapeseed, coconut or other) and do the decarb and extraction in one step. There is almost no smell.

For times and temps, after many experiments, Ive settled on 110 minutes at 220F. I put the material in the oven in a small mason jar, then preheat the oven.

Once heated up the 110 minutes start, and then I'll turn off the over and let it cool down in there.

While its still warm I add the liquid sunflower lecithin, give it a good shake and sit it in the fridge.

I do this with strains that have different ratios of thc:cbd, but all have cbd. I do them all the same now since Ive never noticed a difference adjusting the times and temps.

Oil extractions are like growing in many ways. There are many effective ways to do it, and people have their preferences.

Final point is I do small volume experiments. A couple grams, cover it with oil, stir it up.

I have no need for gadgets like butter machines, double boilers, crock pots or the like. You could oven toast it first, but I don't recommend that.

 

[SweetSue]

Sorry, thought afterwards that this isn't really the right thread for that post. But it feels just like chatting like friends and I didn't think before I typed.

What would everyone say is the best way to get the purest, most translucent oil - is it the heat-pressing? or this thing about extraction with frozen alcohol? Or what? And in looking for purity and high concentration, do you lose valuable "impurities" - terpenes or other such stuff?

edited to say - How odd; for some reason there is no "like" or "thank" button for the posts above. I like them and a heartfelt THANKS! anyway!

Anything that has to do with cannabinoid therapies, which are all derived from the essential oil mixes of the plants, is appropriate for this study hall. I'm so thrilled for you Nixie. Yes indeed, you've come a long way in a short time.

When my husband and I were younger and impetuous we grew a plant behind the house that never amounted to more than leaves because we smoked them as they developed. Lol! There are many of us who, out of desperation, smoked leaves before we got proficient enough to grow to a successful series of harvests.

Your next step is to stop thinking of the cancer as something that has the power to kill you and learn to love this part of you that wanted you to listen so badly that it took this drastic step. I have this odd view of cancer cells that suggests they're begging for help in their quest to be stopped. If you think about it they change their energy source, a glaring signal of something amiss, and they express a higher concentration of eCBRs, suggesting to me that they've presented greater opportunity for cannabinoids to signal apoptosis.

Viewed this way the cancer cells themselves know they're out of whack and are asking in a number of ways to be stopped so they don't damage the community at large. So love those cells too, in the same unconditional way you're learning to love yourself. I believe it's this mode of unconditional loving that makes the most difference in radical remission. Thinking of your cancer cells as the enemy doesn't feel safe to me.

Enough of my cosmic rant, and back to the celebration of your awareness that the reserve troops will indeed be as helpful as you'd hoped. Buds are exponentially more potent.

 

[Nixie]

Am loving Oldbear's Secret Recipe; I'll try that! Thanks!

My own scrag leaf extraction is a lot better after being properly strained - the main problem I am having with it is knowing when it is going to hit; it seems to take at least a couple of hours, maybe longer, to work, taken by mouth (not sure about under the tongue). I don't think it is strong enough yet for capsules - it would be like a motorway traffic jam trying to pack in enough of them. (Excuse the indelicacy).

Sweet Sue, I like your take on cancer cells not being the enemy. It is difficult not to speak in military metaphor, it seems to fit the situation so well, especially with regard to the air-strike effect of chemo (effective but damaging and ultimately unsustainable) which I feel helps me understand its usefulness and the rationale behind it; but I think, really, I have always seen this as a malfunction, a maintenance or engineering problem, and something that should be largely reversible. I find I can't do the visualisation stuff that encourages you to think of yourself as being in a castle, sending out white cells as knights to battle the cancer (though I know of someone who feels she cured herself largely by the power of such visualisations), but I rather like the imagery of gardeners, pruning this and composting that, and having cleansing bonfires ...

 

[SweetSue]

Am loving Oldbear's Secret Recipe; I'll try that! Thanks!

My own scrag leaf extraction is a lot better after being properly strained - the main problem I am having with it is knowing when it is going to hit; it seems to take at least a couple of hours, maybe longer, to work, taken by mouth (not sure about under the tongue). I don't think it is strong enough yet for capsules - it would be like a motorway traffic jam trying to pack in enough of them. (Excuse the indelicacy).

Sweet Sue, I like your take on cancer cells not being the enemy. It is difficult not to speak in military metaphor, it seems to fit the situation so well, especially with regard to the air-strike effect of chemo (effective but damaging and ultimately unsustainable) which I feel helps me understand its usefulness and the rationale behind it; but I think, really, I have always seen this as a malfunction, a maintenance or engineering problem, and something that should be largely reversible. I find I can't do the visualisation stuff that encourages you to think of yourself as being in a castle, sending out white cells as knights to battle the cancer (though I know of someone who feels she cured herself largely by the power of such visualisations), but I rather like the imagery of gardeners, pruning this and composting that, and having cleansing bonfires ...

I like that imagery too Nixie. I see it as definately reversible, and you, my dear, are well on the way to seeing the results you're anticipating.

 

[LVMarc42]

If you want to get 'trim' at dispensary, look for and ask for jars of ''popcorn buds'' better than trim.. or ''bakers batch'' .. 1/2 to 1/4 price of nice med flower. Extracts great.. good cooking..

Hi Sue,

Thanks for writing back. Yes, it is curious that I did fine with the first batch of CCO, increasing my dose slowly to 8 rice sized pieces per night scraped onto a prune or dried apricot. Once I found rosin, I worked my way up to 3 rice sized pieces per night.

When I finished the first batch of rosin (2g), I stopped dosing completely. I had lost so much product when I decarb'd the first batch. I was looking for a way to convert the rosin into a form that I could accurately dose without losing it like I had the first time. This was before I heard about your biobombs and micro dosing. I even thought I might start ingesting the rosin without decarbing it. So, In short, that is when I joined the forums looking for more ideas.I joined 1/1/18 and

I dosed up that first supply of 2g of CCO in about 6 weeks. I got off of blood pressure medication and my mood and energy were transformed. I also lost 15 pounds because my chocolate addiction just went away. When I stopped the chocolate craving returned and had probably been off all cannabis for more than a month.

The rosin I have now is Kushberry (2g). Of course you lose a little when you decarb. There isn't a variety available. Usually there is only one indica strain of rosin for sale. The variety of flower is much greater. Right now I'm at the two pieces and will probably be at that amount for a few more days before I try to go up to 3.

Oldbear or InTheShed mentioned juicing but we were not sure about my digestive system and what was causing the upset. Originally I was directed to solvents and then chlorophyll as the culprit. Now, thanks to OB we know it is probably just oil that caused it. I don't know if I can juice. I am a diabetic. I only eat berries in small quantities. I don't drink juice by the glass or eat lots of fruit. Would I be able to juice? Let me know what you think is possible.

I don't know a grower. I get my product at dispensaries. They sell flower. It's $325 per oz. There's a big variety of strains for sale amongst the numerous places around me. I looked on all the dispensary sites and none offer trim.

I will try the grapeseed oil in a couple of days when my system returns to normal. In the meantime, I hope to hear back from you with a reply to my questions and comments above. Thanks for all your help. Kelly

 

[LVMarc42]

Yummy...trim///bakers batch///broken tips////wonderful...////broken KoLas // my tm // bk ..

Hi keshazel.

I don't know if you have a medical prescription for purchasing marijuana or not but I do know that broken Coast cannabis in Ladysmith British Columbia carries what they call Indica tips or sativa tips. Just trim with a different name. Broken Coast is a small batch high end grower, just purchased by Aphria this week. They are also my registered L.P.. Great products.....prices ...well better than $300 +/ oz.

 

[SweetSue]

If you want to get ‘trim’ at dispensary, look for and ask for jars of ‘’popcorn buds’’ better than trim.. or ‘’bakers batch’’ .. 1/2 to 1/4 price of nice med flower. Extracts great.. good cooking..

What an excellent share Marc. We don't much care about pretty when we make it into oil, do we?

 

[SweetSue]

I'm listening to an interview with Dr. Michelle Ross of Colorado and hear these tidbits:

- Some people inexplicably respond better to CBD at bedtime. For the most part CBD is an "alerting" molecule, and it's advised to take it a couple hours before bedtime to keep from disrupting sleep.

- You can check your own response by trying some CBD oil in the daytime. If instead of it lifting your mood and waking you up it makes you sleepy, you are one of these people and would benefit from trying CBD for bedtime meds instead of THC.

- A surprising number of people with ADHD will respond to CBD in this way. Their brains process differently. They take stimulants to slow down, so the fact that they switch biological response to CBD shouldn't be surprising at all, eh?

 

[LVMarc42]

Lady G ..... TANGILOPE IS VERY GOOD SOURCE WEED FOR SERIOUS EXTRACT MEDICINE....
WHEN TANGIES AROUND.. ID LOAD UP.. EVERY BATCH HAD 1/5 - 1/4 OF WEED FOR DECARB THEN EXTRACT.. SOMETIMES THE
CITRUS TERPINES ARE SO NICE, FRESH HARVEST WEED IS SO MUCH THE SAME AS 'LEMON TYME' AND OTHER TRADITIONAL HERBS USED IN FOODS EVERYDAY.

WHEN TANGIE INHALED..EUPHORIC YUMMY AND IT ALL SO GOOD.

Love hemp seeds! I toss them into my smoothie, on my salad, in my salad dressing, swirled in hummus, or throw them into granola and yogurt... Throw a little cannabis oil in your hummus and it's a great high protein snack. Damn this Mango Haze is making me hungry! lol

 

[LVMarc42]

Hiya sweet sue....

Winter is about to come to my desert.. first 4 hours of high winds... argh. I’m building a greenhouse.. Chinese kit. Lol pos. Design. It’s functional therapy.however, winds above 40 mph.. destroy above 60 mph and roof tiles go. ..On the cracker boxes first. So all stop...I have to tie this thing down. It’s at a critical stage..
No dispensary prices dropping like a rock..hurray.. pricing ‘mistakes’ ..in people’s favor... with exotic extracts concentrated and often rso . Wonderful variations of ethanol extracted eco//rso//oil.. 30 usd and below per gram ..when Cbd is in the oil. They often charge ..even less.. lol. ‘Old bears said’’’’’all cannabinoids are good’’’. I know hat it’s true...the other extracts,however are often priced to be at 800 an ounce..thc equivalent.. rosin,sugar,sauce,..all $$$..
The pressed pressure extract method..aka//wall mart presser/// makes sloppy extracts in nv dispensary. Too easy to adulterate..meaning they purposely allow the wax/chorrophyl/ things not at all cannabinoids. It’s too deep into the plants’ living tissue for ‘’’’clean’’’oil...

...tool for procured oil.....testing..

Place smear onto glass slide//or mirror..just look at it.. compare it with all known oil. You’ll see good clean oil for slop easy.
Pocket knife ‘burn’..put sample on shiny steel blade.. heat to incineration..yes inhale smoke..lol.. ok notice how it burns. One oil it will all go up in smoke at same instant. Clean one oil. If not it’s dirtier. Look at residue. If powder .clean oil.if oil residue that won’t burn..ever..garbage oil.

Thc content....vape off foil... one hit.if it’s any good..you’ll know in 180 seconds...

Weed prices are scattered..400 ounce for..monied tourists.. to 150 for .. ‘slightly less than purty mMj ‘..I try to help these folks since the owners don’t know dick about weed.marketing..operations reasearch..lol I confirmed this the owners ..a group of lawyers...they will never,ever, as in never get a casino gaming license..till..idk 2038?.just how the canna biz right now.

Sweet sue.. clip this.. after oxy/opiate//sue there really is very little distinction between one opioid and another.// so tramadol was gonna be a non narcotic pain killer..bullshit. One the first metabolic pass it turns into a version of heroin. Diamorphine.. they lied.. oh suboxone is evil..I digress..tmi.

After opioid saturation those desiring to cease all opioids have to go through withdrawal. 2-4 weeks. Followed by 4-8 weeks of retraining your mind and body to work together. .. the poisonous medicine, shuts down your stomach/small intestines/lower intestines, so that your bowels do not get the moist juicy crap it’s needs for the final exit. First one must deal with dead gut....sweet sue all those pounds of;
Dates
Pistachio..pounds a week
Eggs/butter
Beef.pounds
Gallons of red grapefruit...poles too but they are way to powerful to eat pounds of at a time.

Early on I ate good clean food, but weird..
sue..asks why?

The oxy et al, changes the chemistry of..well you..and it hard inside your entire gut.
Pistachio nuts contain the amino acid, one of many, that jump start your gut. Mine took 14 pounds over 8 weeks..
Grapefruit ...live good pectin...edible life for humans,,only in fresh harvested fruits,flowers and nuts,
Apple ..pectin in highest concentration.
Beef..protein ,,yum..break into every amino acid we need. 1 oz beef with eggs in morning . You can feel it...
Eggs/butter/cheese/olive oil// the oils make you work better.

The eating has expanded to normal portions/ normal eating times over weeks 9-16.

Veggie test,, veggies turn into sugar in my mouth. It’s the amalyse enzyme. Post oxy my body is ‘24 years old...inside’ so amalyse reaction takes 1-5 seconds where 15-30 is typical. So I’ve added green veg, fresh harvested veggies,

Sue all along the oil extraction techniques, the ethanol extraction techniques, and water boiling techniques used in food prep is what makes medicine and when you combine all of it,the tools,the fresh ingredients .you get much better outcomes..’breakfast lunch. Dinner.. he’ll supper too..

Sue..post oxy..you must encourage no boob tube,, wasted time/bad messages/ and post oxy you have WORK TO DO..REBUILDING YOUR BATTERED BODY AND MIND. SO DONT PISS AWAY PRECIOUS TIME GETTING BRAIN NOISE.

INSTEAD;;;;;
FIND A RIVER NEARBY AND WALK BY IT
EXCERCISE
MORE EXCERCISE..STRECTVH.
MIND EXCERCISE..
MUSIC THERAPY..PASSIVE LISTENING. EXPANDING TO PARTICIPATION.BANG A DRUM IF YOU MUST.
DANCE THERAPY... PUT IN MICHEAL JACKSON OR OTHER BEAT MUSIC..MOVE ..MOVE MORE..REPEAT OFTEN BI HOURLY ISNT ENOUGH.

EVENTUALLY, you don’t feel like you are drowning inside your own skin. You eating and digesting.
Your building muscle,,stamina
A living ‘morning ritual’ begets a nooner, a pm then a daily.. finally you have a ‘’project’ a ‘’resone de tres’ ‘ reason to be..French phrase.

It’s been 5 months since I stopped consuming all compound medicine.
My mind and body are one. My bodies mass, shape,flexibility, muscle strength have not been like this since the 1970’s..16-26 year old.
There never was or never is any desire to consume 1 nano gram of ‘white death powder’ none. I have sincevread about opiate withdrawal from’’experts’’ wh
What a bunch of bullshit. Clearly, the ‘facts’ are written by fictional or third party accounts.
No ‘addiction’ center has honest information
All withdrawal accounts false. Timelong to ‘why’ and motivation of ‘addict’ is off base.
Sue, when you are under water, and lose air, as you come to surface, to breath, how long after hitting surface do you wait till you breath? Withdrawal feels like the anticipation to inhale oxygen. It’s not at all about ;
Life
Euphoria
Happiness
It’s chemically induced death/that leaves you gasping for air.
If you take opiate air flows, if not you must wait to breathe..

So the urge to return to oxy at first is to ‘breathe’ ..after 4 months this is not the case. You can breathe. After a few months, if you don’t have a complete life. Well get one.. it’s your life..

The motivating force driving me to complete abstinence was the true knowledge of the origins of compound medicine/the origin of morphine/heroin/opium/cannabis/organic chemistry/and it was clear the medicines I had taken harmed me. I followed all doctors orders. I falsely believed them instead of my self. It won’t happen again.....sue ..some form of ‘survival of fittest’ attitude was required to climb out of that ...pit.

On a lighter side.. winter is coming. I must tie things down..later........

Thank you sweet sue for helping to save my life.
Thank you old bear, and your pioneering cook grandma for honest wisdom regarding food .

..there is that racy mind thing to deal with... if you go very fast you must narrow your focus” ..when driving fast....don’t go in circles....’’

What an excellent share Marc. We don't much care about pretty when we make it into oil, do we?

 

[SweetSue]

Marc, sometimes you move me so much it takes my breath away. I'm so damned proud of you.

I'm getting ready to put together a thread on a regimen for opiate withdrawal using cannabis. The regimen is much gentler than what you went through. I have the info in my Class Notes thread almost ready to go. Studying in advance has been emotionally painful, knowing so many of you who were caught in the lies.

Did you see they're now marketing a drug to overcome the constipation caused by opiates? Opiates they shouldn't be prescribing that're ruining people's lives and bodies. Rather than stop this deadly practice they come up with another drug to disrupt the gut even more. Our bodies aren't made for manufactured molecules, and we're seeing the end result of handing our health care and healing over to anyone else.

 

[dynamo1]

sounds like Ducolax

 

[InTheShed]

Ok, I'll be the first post post-update then!

As I mentioned earlier, I'm going to be making capsules for my dad who has dementia with agitation. SweetSue pointed me to a GreenFlower video on that subject, where a blend of 2.5mg each of THC and CBD 2-3x/day was recommended.

I'm posting here so someone can check my math.

I have CBD oil (from organic hemp, CO2 extracted) that is stated as 50mg/ml.
I have homemade grapeseed/pumpkin seed oil that is close enough to 15mg/ml THC for these purposes.

If I want to have 1ml capsules with 2.5mg each in them, this is what I think I need to do (scaled down here for easy calculations):
Dilute 1ml THC oil with 2ml EVOO, giving me 3ml of oil containing 5mg/ml THC.
Dilute 1ml CBD oil with 9ml EVOO, giving me 10ml of oil containing 5mg/ml CBD.
Blend the 3ml THC oil with 3ml CBD oil which will give me 6 ml oil at 2.5mg/ml CBD and THC.
That should give me six 00 capsules with that blend.

Have I done that correctly?

 

[SweetSue]

It looks good to me Shed. I'm the math-challenged one among us, so let's see what the others say. Lol!

Nicely done, by the way.

 

[Oldbear]

Shed, I believe the calculations and outcomes are correct. You will probably get 7 caps. At least I have a problem filling them all the way

I found more smilies Click the smily face in the menu bar and you get access to 3 lists

 

[InTheShed]

It looks good to me Shed. I'm the math-challenged one among us, so let's see what the others say. Lol! Nicely done, by the way.

Shed, I believe the calculations and outcomes are correct. You will probably get 7 caps. At least I have a problem filling them all the way

Thanks! It's always good to have a second and third set of eyes, particularly when doing calculations in your head because you can't fall back to sleep at 5am!

 

[Kicknitup1]

Shed...Are you sure your cbd oil is measured as mg/ml...or is it 50mg/g????