SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

Just subbing so I can find the thread more easily. I quit smoking cigarettes recently so I am looking to stop smoking weed also. I am really interested in dosed pills using coconut oil and lechtin(sp?).
 
Appreciate your response SweetSue. I will make up some capsules and try suppositories today. Any idea on how many mg I should try this way? How often? I will log what I do to assist me finding a pattern. Sometimes pain clouds the journey.

Tinctures I am using are about 5 mg each THC and CBD every 4 or so hours. It is low but need to keep my head in the working game for a while. That is helpful to know that it takes THC to break the opioid hold on cellular level. It seems my body wants more THC for pain control currently.

My jaw muscles are very calcified from chronic inflammation. Trigger point injections done last Thursday caused crunchy feeling and wasn't pleasant. Still very sore from physical therapy trying to massage and stretch my jaw. Talking and eating are very tough for me. I read the CBD is for inflammation, will it reverse the calcification? I may need to increase the CBD amounts given this knowledge. What's the best way to increase the CBD dosage? Guessing do the CBD in tincture and THC in biobombs. I have different tinctures ratios - 28:1 and 1:1 CBD:THC in addition to 2:1.

Sleep was better last night after a bit of Cheeba Chew. Took a while to figure out an edible. My students would be quick to notice a change in my behavior :) Dosing with edibles is very tricky, do agree.

Agree it is wrong that drug companies make much money at our suffering in pain. I was never told of cannabis from medical professionals. But, I am now letting many know of the relief I get from cannabis, one doctor at a time. My doctors do understand and approve of using cannabis. I am one of very few who have gotten off a morphine pump, which pumped meds every 15 sec. It took years to slowly wean down but stopping the meds put me in withdrawal about four years ago when pump was removed. It didn't make sense to me as was such a relative low dose. Interesting....
 
keshazel said:
Oldbear, I will take the rosin under my tongue. One piece tonight? Can you tell me why I'm taking this small quantity since I've already taken more? Can you suggest something besides coconut oil, as I truly, madly dislike coconut flavor? When I mentioned tincture I meant a true tincture made with alcohol or vegetable glycerine, taken under the tongue.

Thanks.
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Refined coconut oil doesn't have a taste, at least not one I pick up.

The purpose of trying the coconut oil is to determine if your system will tolerate it. If it will, you can safely use coconut oil for the BioBomb formulas. This increases the bioavailability of the cannabinoids, and that translates into less CCO/rosin used at less cost to you.

Coconut oil or olive oil will extract far more cannabinoids than glycerin, and alcohol makes the most complete extraction for a tincture. If biobomb oil isn't an option then certainly tinctures would be the next option. The biobomb formulas are so effective we have a strong preference, but we're also flexible. :battingeyelashes:
 
Ive done some research and found that your reaction to olive oil is not all that unusual.

If coconut is out, maybe try some grapeseed oil? Ive seen that used in concentrates.

I don't have any experience with tinctures, but its cannabinoids mixed in with something else, so there is no reason to not use this option. If you have some you like and can tolerate, that's perfect,

There are a couple of reasons for the small amount. What we want to do is tweek your endocannbinoid system with a small amount of thc/cbd. Think of it as a vitamin supplement. A therapeutic dose, where you get healing benefits but don't get 'high', if fact you want it so you barely feel it, is the best.

Too much thc will give you negative outcomes of too much too fast (dry mouth, racy brain, anxiety, etc) that most people want to avoid. Internally too much will simply shut down your CB1 receptors and your system will flush all the excess. Money for nothing. Too much can also make the symptoms worse. Starting at such a low level and slowly increasing the doseage will help find the best level for you. People call it the 'sweet spot'.

If you want to start at a higher amount that's ok too. What is most important is the keeping track of what you took, how much when and the results you experienced. You can always lower it later if needed.

Some reading on Cannabis Microdosing' will explain it.

If you feel up to taking the rosin, go for it. We can wait a day or 2 to go back to the oils.
 
Oldbear said:
Ive done some research and found that your reaction to olive oil is not all that unusual.

If coconut is out, maybe try some grapeseed oil? Ive seen that used in concentrates.

I don't have any experience with tinctures, but its cannabinoids mixed in with something else, so there is no reason to not use this option. If you have some you like and can tolerate, that's perfect,

There are a couple of reasons for the small amount. What we want to do is tweek your endocannbinoid system with a small amount of thc/cbd. Think of it as a vitamin supplement. A therapeutic dose, where you get healing benefits but don't get 'high', if fact you want it so you barely feel it, is the best.

Too much thc will give you negative outcomes of too much too fast (dry mouth, racy brain, anxiety, etc) that most people want to avoid. Internally too much will simply shut down your CB1 receptors and your system will flush all the excess. Money for nothing. Too much can also make the symptoms worse. Starting at such a low level and slowly increasing the doseage will help find the best level for you. People call it the 'sweet spot'.

If you want to start at a higher amount that's ok too. What is most important is the keeping track of what you took, how much when and the results you experienced. You can always lower it later if needed.

Some reading on Cannabis Microdosing' will explain it.

If you feel up to taking the rosin, go for it. We can wait a day or 2 to go back to the oils.
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Oldbear,

Okay, whew. First of all, in the short time since we discussed biobombs and then I tried the olive oil, I forgot about the biobombs. That's how fast my memory clears out. Now that you reminded me, I understand why you want me to try the other oils. I didn't know that refined coconut oil doesn't have a flavor. I will get a refined coconut oil. and a grapeseed oil; might as well get both. I will decarboxylate the 1 gram of rosin I have and start taking the amount you suggested under my tongue at night. I can add a second dose after 2 or 3 days and see if I tolerate it without any high, if you think that's okay. This is how I did it in the past. I will hold off on the tinctures for now. Thanks again.
 
Memory FYI - One thing that happens when we get proper sleep is that we cycle through phases of sleep. Most people are familiar with REM. There are other phases. We go round and round through these phases. If we get proper, restful sleep, our short term memories gets transferred to our long term memory. This is something I learned from my wonderful neurologist who I've been seeing since early 2000s. He is a wonderful, smart, funny, thoughtful genius who specializes in a particular area of sleep medicine. He's on the cutting edge and will welcome cannabis when it becomes legal to use it. He knows how much I have struggled and has supported me in my quest for recovery solutions. Cheers, Kelly
 
keshazel said:
Oldbear,

Okay, whew. First of all, in the short time since we discussed biobombs and then I tried the olive oil, I forgot about the biobombs. That's how fast my memory clears out. Now that you reminded me, I understand why you want me to try the other oils. I didn't know that refined coconut oil doesn't have a flavor. I will get a refined coconut oil. and a grapeseed oil; might as well get both. I will decarboxylate the 1 gram of rosin I have and start taking the amount you suggested under my tongue at night. I can add a second dose after 2 or 3 days and see if I tolerate it without any high, if you think that's okay. This is how I did it in the past. I will hold off on the tinctures for now. Thanks again.
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We'll try to be more aware of how foggy your memory can be Kelly. :hugs:
 
In the closing moments of the Green Flower class on using cannabis for neurological disorders there's this exchange between Max and Eloise Theisen, a geriatric nurse practitioner in California.

"What's the most important thing you want people to take away from today's class?"

"That I think the success I see is when people are willing to work with whoever's there to guide them. That the more open you are, the more willing you are to experiment and to go slow, the better success you'll see. And just to stay patient because I see more success than I don't."

I hope I live up to that trust.

The class made me more determined to slow the process down and pay more attention to the idea of micro dosing. She has a patient, 89-years old who came to her with advanced Alzheimer's, living in a retirement community that was preparing to move her to another unit, because she was difficult to handle. A steady dose of 5 mg of CBD and 5 mg of THC, twice a day, reversed her condition over three month's time.

Reversed her condition. On a mere 5 mg balanced cannabinoid dose, twice a day.

This is criminal. To deny this medication to the people is criminal, pure and simple. It's social genocide, and cruelty at the highest level. Just exactly what is the Republican Party's goal here?
 
Eloise Theisen, the instructor of the class, came to cannabis to get off opioids. She suggests starting with CBD and THCa during the day and higher THC for night meds. That's a starting point, because every patient is an individual, and it's all trial and error to find the sweet spot.

We already know that for many chronic pain patients a balanced ratio works most efficiently. Again, a starting point. What I like most about cannabis is the flexibility without paying for it with nasty side effects.

She also recommends multiple pathways - edibles, tinctures, creams, patches, whatever's available. The one pathway she hasn't tried is anal. :laughtwo: She said she's not ready to go there. Lol! There really is tremendous stigma against suppositories. One of the reasons KR did his video.
 
I just realized I have the option to share classes from Green Flower Media. I have a subscription, which means I have access to all of their streaming classes, and those are the ones I can share. Those on brain health I've already forwarded to Grow2HealMe, but the others are pretty much all up for grabs, from what I can see.

If you go to the site and look over their classes, then contact me by pm we can work out the transfer. As long as there are classes I can share let's get them out there.

Edit: Apparently I can gift the classes more than once. :cheesygrinsmiley: Don't know how long this generosity will last though.
 
Was Eloise able to get off opioids? I was wondering about using a THCA and CBD while working and THC when home. Suppositories too. Edibles last two nights are helping me sleep. Until pain is better controlled I can't reduce opioids which remains my goal. Twice weekly physical therapy is working on breaking scar tissue in muscles and flaring pain.
 
sierrahiker said:
Was Eloise able to get off opioids? I was wondering about using a THCA and CBD while working and THC when home. Suppositories too. Edibles last two nights are helping me sleep. Until pain is better controlled I can't reduce opioids which remains my goal. Twice weekly physical therapy is working on breaking scar tissue in muscles and flaring pain.
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Yes, Eloise is now opioid free. It was that experience that brought her to cannabis, and quite frankly, after an extensive career in oncology in a legal state she was furious that none of her own medical support staff had never recommended it as a pain relief. It became her passion to see cannabis used more openly medicinally.

I'd recommend you try the suppositories. It's a tough sell, but an effective pathway for chronic pain, particularly of the lower back. I'm conversing with a member over at Magnus8's topicals study hall who uses a good canna pain cream to great effect for multiple pain issues. Topicals are also highly underrated, until you try them.

I'll review the class again today to see if there's anything I missed on the opioid withdrawal plan, but I think I caught the gist of it. Multiple pathways, CBD and THCa for daytime, high THC for night. Some will need more THC, and some will need more CBD, but it's a methodical game of trial and error to find the personal regimen anyway. Start low and titrate up slowly, as always.

She did mention that step one is to get to the point where cannabis will manage the pain and then slowly begin weaning off the opioids, increasing THC or CBD values as necessary. And she mentioned that it sometimes takes a massive amount of THC to offset the pain. This is where I believe suppositories become such a valuable resource. You'll be able to get the THC in, and avoid the first pass through the liver.

Take a couple apigenin capsules about 30-45 minutes before the cannabinoid doses and you'll gain even more time for those cannabinoids to circulate through the system because the enzymes in the liver will be caught up by the sheer numbers of apignen molecules needing metabolized. Competitive inhibition is your friend with cannabinoid therapies.
 
SweetSue said:
Yes, Eloise is now opioid free. It was that experience that brought her to cannabis, and quite frankly, after an extensive career in oncology in a legal state she was furious that none of her own medical support staff had never recommended it as a pain relief. It became her passion to see cannabis used more openly medicinally.

I'd recommend you try the suppositories. It's a tough sell, but an effective pathway for chronic pain, particularly of the lower back. I'm conversing with a member over at Magnus8's topicals study hall who uses a good canna pain cream to great effect for multiple pain issues. Topicals are also highly underrated, until you try them.

I'll review the class again today to see if there's anything I missed on the opioid withdrawal plan, but I think I caught the gist of it. Multiple pathways, CBD and THCa for daytime, high THC for night. Some will need more THC, and some will need more CBD, but it's a methodical game of trial and error to find the personal regimen anyway. Start low and titrate up slowly, as always.

She did mention that step one is to get to the point where cannabis will manage the pain and then slowly begin weaning off the opioids, increasing THC or CBD values as necessary. And she mentioned that it sometimes takes a massive amount of THC to offset the pain. This is where I believe suppositories become such a valuable resource. You'll be able to get the THC in, and avoid the first pass through the liver.

Take a couple apigenin capsules about 30-45 minutes before the cannabinoid doses and you'll gain even more time for those cannabinoids to circulate through the system because the enzymes in the liver will be caught up by the sheer numbers of apignen molecules needing metabolized. Competitive inhibition is your friend with cannabinoid therapies.
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I have experience I can share. Multiple years on tramadol up to 400 mg a day. Long chat with the doc about side effects and complications from long term use. Doc has just come back from some seminar and what was explained there is with long term use, the opioids lose effectiveness and in fact start to contribute to the pain / cause the pain you are trying to fix.

I was already on a low dose of cannameds. Roughly 5mg thc/cbd 4 to 5 times a day. Cannasnacks (dried decarbed bud bits in or on something) all through the day.

We launched a tramadol reduction program where the dose was reduced in stages over 6 weeks then it became zero.

There were no side effects, no withdrawal symptoms, nothing. At the end I actually felt better because there were no opioids floating around messing things up.

What I learned was that the tramadol was not helping me in any way. Cannabis with no tramadol was better than tramadol with or without cannabinoids.

Based on this and a couple of friends now off the opioids, I have to disagree with first part of the red paragraph.

If you keep taking the opioids, the cannabinoids will never catch up. They will never manage the pain.

Based on my experience the cannabis program must be underway - low doses are fine. But people must immediately start the opioid reduction program for it to have any impact. I did both for several months and nothing changed.

Why so much emphasis on this?

I want people to know that they can start an opioid reduction program and they wont feel worse.
 
Oldbear, will it be ok with you if I post that on the opioid withdrawal thread? I have the post ready to go, just awaiting your approval. :battingeyelashes:
 
Thank you Oldbear and SweetSue. Encouraging posts. I did suppository last night and but short of time this morning. Allowed a few hours of sleep and woke a 1 am so eat small piece of a chew. It was a weak tincture that I put in capsule. Think it should be stronger for suppositories. I have tried pain creams but didn't seem to help much.

I am wondering if the cannabis is helping pain more that the meds. Am doing intense physical therapy on jaw and pain remains intense. So, had hoped to manage pain before reducing meds. But, will see what I can do. Pain doc was quick to suggest Tramadol as is easier to prescribe than the oxycodone. I am not sure switching meds does me any good. Interesting that cannabis alone was better. That helps.

I have read about the meds adding to the pain and even did a few Ketamine infusions to reset my pain sensitivity. It helped RSD in hand dramatically but didn't help jaw or back. Cannabis may be the safer way.

I had bought some THCA tincture last month as a way to use cannabis while working. So, my body seems to be on the right path. Chronic pain makes it hard to see progress at times, so do appreciate the help here. Thinking 7 mg of THCA twice a day while working, along with CBD. Then switch to THC when home and not driving. Plus suppositories twice a day and try cream again. Will order apigenin capsules too.
 
Hi friends. I got grapeseed oil and coconut oil today. Waiting another day for digestive system to settle. Waiting for silicone cups to arrive in the mail so I can decarb my rosin. Still reading furiously. I posted a few of my notes as blogs. See ya soon. Kelly
 
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