SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

I have to also agree that I'm not totally sure the winterization does much.I had no ice in my final jar which would make me say there was no water. And it surely didn't make my oil any clearer after the 24 hrs. I had read that the final step was used to help bring out more flavors. That's something I didn't get thats for sure. I wouldn't say my oil tastes horrible but compared to the one other oil I have tried I could use a little refining.
 
RheinRover said:
I have to also agree that I'm not totally sure the winterization does much.I had no ice in my final jar which would make me say there was no water. And it surely didn't make my oil any clearer after the 24 hrs. I had read that the final step was used to help bring out more flavors. That's something I didn't get thats for sure. I wouldn't say my oil tastes horrible but compared to the one other oil I have tried I could use a little refining.
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I hadn't come across that, and I suppose that's a very good reason. Taste isn't an issue for me, because of the way I use the oil, and I'd suppose if you were putting oil into capsules taste wouldn't be much of a concern either.

Your oil was made from plant material you were less than pleased with initially. I wouldn't grow that one again if I were you. :laughtwo:
 
SweetSue said:
I hadn't come across that, and I suppose that's a very good reason. Taste isn't an issue for me, because of the way I use the oil, and I'd suppose if you were putting oil into capsules taste wouldn't be much of a concern either.

Your oil was made from plant material you were less than pleased with initially. I wouldn't grow that one again if I were you. :laughtwo:
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haha! I couldn't agree more. I guess even though it wasn't the tastiest of plants it gave me some good knowledge being my first grow and my first batch of oil so for that I am thankful. I do have the trim from my Jack H. in the freezer, that could be a good second batch of oil. Now I wish I could just start growing that plant called "time" because I sure need some more of that!
 
RheinRover said:
haha! I couldn't agree more. I guess even though it wasn't the tastiest of plants it gave me some good knowledge being my first grow and my first batch of oil so for that I am thankful. I do have the trim from my Jack H. in the freezer, that could be a good second batch of oil. Now I wish I could just start growing that plant called "time" because I sure need some more of that!
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:laughtwo: I, personally, have been growing younger for the past three years. I do a fitness program called Callanetics. Every day I wake up thinner than I was yesterday, stronger, more flexible and younger looking. I expect I'll live vibrantly into my 90s, or at least that's my plan and I'm sticking to it. Haha! Seriously though, I'm 62 and I feel like I'm 35. That's a far cry from what it was like three years ago.
 
Lipids Digestion and Absorption - YouTube

Here's a good one showing fats passing the stomach relatively protected or not being digested, bypassing the hepatic portal vein and liver, and going into the lymphatic system (more or less probably depending on type of fat) before entering the blood stream.
Isn't this what we are after, assuming for oral meds the med is combined with fat?
 
PsyCro, you're my hero for the day. :laughtwo: The video was wonderful. Now, I understand what's going on.

Watching the video first made the article completely clear for me. I was intrigued that a meal high in lauric acid would allow some of the medium and short-chained fatty acids to also enter the lymphatic system. That deserves a closer look. It could be a way to get more cannabinoids in there.

How insane is it that anyone would make a baby formula lacking in both cholesterol and the digestive enzyme for cholesterol? Unfreakingbelievable.
 
So I went off and read up on emulsification, and I'm much closer now to understanding what's going on with our Bio-Bomb adaptation, most particularly why it takes so much lecithin in proportion to the CCO and its carrier oil. In order to stabilize the emulsification it takes that much more surfactant. Simple science. The proportions are still something we're guessing at, from what I can tell, but it apparently works, so I'll have to be satisfied with that for now. Maybe someday I'll get the chance to ask BadKitty herself how she came up with her recipe proportions and what science she based it on. I gotta give the girl credit, she made a great leap there.

Ok, a couple more pieces to this massive puzzle becoming clearer to me. Thanks again PsyCro.
 
This is so crazy. I load up the bowl, turn to the iPad and pull up a reference and 45 minutes later I realize I never cleared that bowl. :laughtwo: see? This is why I'm such a fan of edibles. Lol!
 
PsyCro said:
Here's a good one showing fats passing the stomach relatively protected or not being digested, bypassing the hepatic portal vein and liver, and going into the lymphatic system (more or less probably depending on type of fat) before entering the blood stream.
Isn't this what we are after, assuming for oral meds the med is combined with fat?
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PsyCro said:
Digestion and Absorption of Food Fats - Weston A Price

This one goes a little more into detail for different types of fat..
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What's interesting is this aligns with what I posted here in your olive oil extract thread and earlier in this thread here. In the post in your thread I also found some research suggesting that combining long-chain triglycerides and medium-chain triglycerides resulted in higher long-chain fatty acids in the lymphatic system which is counterintuitive to me if MCTs are sent to the liver and LCTs are sent to the lymphatic system!

Anyway, I haven't seen any test results confirming that the CCO gets transported with carrier oil in to the lymphatic system so at this point it's all theoretical (don't get me wrong, this is what I'm doing for the person I'm trying to help by making the bio bomb, I just haven't seen any tests that confirm the cannabinoids end up in the lymphatic system). Perhaps adding some coconut or MCT oil would help, or perhaps it'd make things worse, I'm not sure. Too many possibilities, too few scientific tests!
 
Yep, all very very interesting.. we really need some blood tests to clear things up! The use of lecithin still has me a bit puzzled, but only because of reports from others on various forums that stated the effect was stronger and shorter than with their regular edible.. which leads me to believe that all we're getting with lecithin is faster absorption, not 'more' absorption (effect wise = smoke a bowl in one hit vs smoke it over the duration of an hour). But once again, blood tests...

But yeah, blood tests.. there's plenty of places where this stuff is legal, can't we get a group of people from those places to make that happen? Heck i'm sure it could even be done for very little money, possibly through some organization with some funds for studies..
 
PsyCro said:
Yep, all very very interesting.. we really need some blood tests to clear things up! The use of lecithin still has me a bit puzzled, but only because of reports from others on various forums that stated the effect was stronger and shorter than with their regular edible.. which leads me to believe that all we're getting with lecithin is faster absorption, not 'more' absorption (effect wise = smoke a bowl in one hit vs smoke it over the duration of an hour). But once again, blood tests...

But yeah, blood tests.. there's plenty of places where this stuff is legal, can't we get a group of people from those places to make that happen? Heck i'm sure it could even be done for very little money, possibly through some organization with some funds for studies..
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The future holds the possibility of clinicians having testing facilities in their offices. Dr. Dustin Sulak and his associates, in Maine, were the first to do this, I believe. This allows them to test the plant material and concentrates their patients are using, which provides for controlled dosing. Then those same patients have lab work done to demonstrate the effectiveness of the therapy.

It's gonna take a while, but it's headed that way now, thank goodness. We're ahead of the learning curve.

I find it curious what you said about reports of the lecithin addition reducing the hang time, because I don't find that true at all using the bio bomb adaptations. I figure my brownie doses are about equal to a half gram of plant material each. With the use of lecithin and olive oil, following the steps we've laid out, my brownies hit within three minutes and last at least five hours. I refuse to believe my system is so unique that my experience is that far out of the norm. I don't think we're doing anything that different from what everyone else is. We do let the emulsified mix refrigerate overnight. Could that one step be making that much difference?
 
High Sue (I bet you are!):high-five:,

Do you really experience a three minute onset from an edible? Wow, that is incredible.

Does the Lecithin promote the rapid absorption rate? I've never used it before, but I have read your post and others posts concerning the compound. That is some crazy first pass speed, quicker than liquor (I don't like the effects of alcohol, but to each their own).

I really don't need quick onset with my ingested MM oil, but I am partial a good long half-life!

Best of Buds

JB
:Namaste:
 
JBUptown said:
High Sue (I bet you are!):high-five:,

Do you really experience a three minute onset from an edible? Wow, that is incredible.

Does the Lecithin promote the rapid absorption rate? I've never used it before, but I have read your post and others posts concerning the compound. That is some crazy first pass speed, quicker than liquor (I don't like the effects of alcohol, but to each their own).

I really don't need quick onset with my ingested MM oil, but I am partial a good long half-life!

Best of Buds

JB
:Namaste:
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Yup. My brownies and tinctures (made with lecithin) hit quick. Almost as fast as smoking (but with the "edible" high) :peace:
 
JBUptown said:
High Sue (I bet you are!):high-five:,

Do you really experience a three minute onset from an edible? Wow, that is incredible.

Does the Lecithin promote the rapid absorption rate? I've never used it before, but I have read your post and others posts concerning the compound. That is some crazy first pass speed, quicker than liquor (I don't like the effects of alcohol, but to each their own).

I really don't need quick onset with my ingested MM oil, but I am partial a good long half-life!

Best of Buds

JB
:Namaste:
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Good day JB. Yes, indeed, I've clocked it a number of times and within three minutes I'm feeling the psychoactivity kicking in. I've also timed the high and it consistently carries five hours and longer. Today I took a double dose (it's Friday the 13th - had to celebrate :laughtwo:) and that will carry me 8-10 hours, if I let it. I'll probably supplement though, because I can lol!

I figure it has to be the lecithin. I'd used olive oil in the recipe before and it didn't result in the rapid onset. So it must be the lecithin. Standard instructions are one tablespoon of lecithin for every cup of oil. I take that to mean one tablespoon for my 1/3 cup of oil used in the recipe, and that's what I add.

The rapid onset is special, to say the least. It not only hits fast, it hits hard, like POW! All at once and then stays there for the longest time. I'm six hours into my morning dose and the high hasn't diminished at all. It's been quite spiritual today. Kinda neat. :battingeyelashes: :Love:
 
supergroomer said:
Yup. My brownies and tinctures (made with lecithin) hit quick. Almost as fast as smoking (but with the "edible" high) :peace:
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Supergroomer, I'm going to be making some tincture. What ratio of lecithin do you use for that? Could you give your recipe, please? I found a source for 95% grain alcohol (brutally expensive, but I spent funds meant for research) and I'd like to try making some this next week, possibly with the Dark Devil Auto.
 
SweetSue said:
Supergroomer, I'm going to be making some tincture. What ratio of lecithin do you use for that? Could you give your recipe, please? I found a source for 95% grain alcohol (brutally expensive, but I spent funds meant for research) and I'd like to try making some this next week, possibly with the Dark Devil Auto.
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I use 1 gram flower for each oz of VG. Use 1T sunflower Lecithin for each cup of VG. If using trim, I use 2-3g trim for each oz of VG. :peace:
 
SweetSue said:
I figure my brownie doses are about equal to a half gram of plant material each. With the use of lecithin and olive oil, following the steps we've laid out, my brownies hit within three minutes and last at least five hours. I refuse to believe my system is so unique that my experience is that far out of the norm. I don't think we're doing anything that different from what everyone else is. We do let the emulsified mix refrigerate overnight. Could that one step be making that much difference?
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In any case they are reports from people who compared their regular edibles to edibles with lecithin, not my experience. But what i find interesting now is your half a gram. 5ml of my oil is about half a gram.. first time i tried that much, i was high for TWO DAYS (didn't have any tolerance then), more of a body stone though. About a month ago i tried the same one evening and it held me strong right through the night and all of next morning lightly.

JBUptown said:
High Sue (I bet you are!):high-five:,

Do you really experience a three minute onset from an edible? Wow, that is incredible.
JB
:Namaste:
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If its hitting that quickly, where is it being absorbed? That's something to read up on..
I recall badkittysmiles stating that we want liver absorption for full effect and lecithin was crucial for that. Now that we know we are actually trying to bypass the liver, where does that put us with lecithin and 'fast' absorption..?
 
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