SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[Growlow]

I wish I had the time to read the pages of this thread. In truth I hardly have the time to get on here to log in my journal as it is. With that said I felt the need to share some wisdom which I shared with some people in the Medical and Recreational Marijuana industries in California, Washington and Colorado.

In my early teens I had this really cool science teacher. The guy had been struck by lightning twice in his life time so he had a quirky perspective on things. So one day he had all of us pressing different plant material with an Arbor Press with heated plates then having us look at what comes out of them. He was an alcoholic and would leave class midway to go to his car to swig some vodka. So when he went off we took some bud we had and pressed it and then what we called "hot spottted" the oil that came out when we got out of school that afternoon (essentially free basing the oil with hot knives that sit on a hot plate for a while). It is what led me to spending a ridiculous amount of time studying the process and procedures of extracting trichomes from the plant.

I shared this story with a handful of individuals a couple of years ago. Shortly after sharing that info Rosin Tech became a new "extract" . Now I know most people use hair straighteners so maybe what me and my mates did by chance was not an original idea for Cannabis extracts but I can't help but wonder due to the timeline of events. It will only be a matter of time before these guys release Arbor Presses with electric nails into metal plates... so before they do, I thought I'd give you all the same info I gave them.

This is the process that took me the later years of my highschool days to perfect. I have found the best extraction happens at between 200-260f with the Arbor Press. Anything over 2 tonne should suffice. Although the press I owned was a 3t. If you don't have the instruments to measure and control the heat of the steel plates then heat them up in the oven 40-50 degrees hotter than you want and they should get the job done as long as you work quickly. Unlike the 10 second method hair straightener Rosin tech makers use this requires a bit more time, anywhere from a 15-20 second press. I would use either REALLY good bubble hash or really good ground up flower wrapped in a coffee filter with room so it can move around slightly. When you are pressing with 2-3 tonne you will pop your coffee filter if its packed too tightly. I have had anywhere between 23-31% returns with flower with this technique and method. Solvent free high yielding extract.

Hope this is helpful for some of you Cheers

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you Growlow. Yields of 23-31% are impressive. Nothing like having the right equipment for the job.

 

[Canyon]

GL, Hot Knife,
We used a blowtorch and a gallon plastic jug with the bottom cut out and table knives. We just used crappy bud. Cherry red, drop the bud on, put the other on top, press and twist was performed by an assistant while medication is inhaled while holding the jug over the knives while avoiding the torch flame. Ah, the good old days.

About the Rosin, I have used a heated screw press with kief rolled in joint papers and had good luck. The buds are less predictable from my experience. I don't know why I have not thought of the coffee filters. I am waiting for the house painter to finish and be gone so I can make some kief. The guy is taking forever. I can't complain though, he is doing a great job.

Best
canyon

 

[SweetSue]

GL, Hot Knife,
We used a blowtorch and a gallon plastic jug with the bottom cut out and table knives. We just used crappy bud. Cherry red, drop the bud on, put the other on top, press and twist was performed by an assistant while medication is inhaled while holding the jug over the knives while avoiding the torch flame. Ah, the good old days.

About the Rosin, I have used a heated screw press with kief rolled in joint papers and had good luck. The buds are less predictable from my experience. I don't know why I have not thought of the coffee filters. I am waiting for the house painter to finish and be gone so I can make some kief. The guy is taking forever. I can't complain though, he is doing a great job.

Best
canyon

Good house painting is an art. It's a calling I missed in life.

The good old days. You crack me up.

 

[Growlow]

Thank you Growlow. Yields of 23-31% are impressive. Nothing like having the right equipment for the job.

The right equipment is important. The right mindset is more important. I encourage everyone to experiment and try something thats out of the norm you never know what you might stumble upon

GL, Hot Knife,
We used a blowtorch and a gallon plastic jug with the bottom cut out and table knives. We just used crappy bud. Cherry red, drop the bud on, put the other on top, press and twist was performed by an assistant while medication is inhaled while holding the jug over the knives while avoiding the torch flame. Ah, the good old days.

About the Rosin, I have used a heated screw press with kief rolled in joint papers and had good luck. The buds are less predictable from my experience. I don't know why I have not thought of the coffee filters. I am waiting for the house painter to finish and be gone so I can make some kief. The guy is taking forever. I can't complain though, he is doing a great job.

Best
canyon

Hahah yeah for us it was an electric coil two butter knives and usually shitty bud haha.... until I started growing my own on the regular that is Glad someone knows what I'm on about.

 

[RheinRover]

Hey Everyone!
Just wanted to come over and share my recent experience with making oil. I made an oil I could dab instead of taking orally but followed all of Sue's steps except I didn't decarb first. I started with 14g of Royal Queen Seeds Easy Bud. Was 1 of my first 2 plants I started last November, chopped in February and has been curing since. I wasn't a huge fan of the smoke so thought why not turn it into oil. I used a small grinder and just gave everything a quick once over before putting in the freezer for 24 hours. I used 99.9% ISO since finding anything like Everclear where I live is a bit difficult. I set the timer for 3 min and started my wash. Did this 3 times and then put the wash into the freezer for another 24 hours before finally putting on the stove top. Now I am quite happy with my results. I had a yield of 3 grams which I am just over the moon about. The high is awesome, a very heady high energy. Just 2 small dabs and I'm good for a few hours. My question for you guys is I think my filtering could be better. I know everything has been purged well and there is no more ISO in my oil but I feel like there might just be a tad bit of plant matter. Should I have filtered again after my 24 hour winterization?

 

[SweetSue]

Welcome RheinRover. Lets see who bites.

 

[Growlow]

Hey Everyone!
Just wanted to come over and share my recent experience with making oil. I made an oil I could dab instead of taking orally but followed all of Sue's steps except I didn't decarb first. I started with 14g of Royal Queen Seeds Easy Bud. Was 1 of my first 2 plants I started last November, chopped in February and has been curing since. I wasn't a huge fan of the smoke so thought why not turn it into oil. I used a small grinder and just gave everything a quick once over before putting in the freezer for 24 hours. I used 99.9% ISO since finding anything like Everclear where I live is a bit difficult. I set the timer for 3 min and started my wash. Did this 3 times and then put the wash into the freezer for another 24 hours before finally putting on the stove top. Now I am quite happy with my results. I had a yield of 3 grams which I am just over the moon about. The high is awesome, a very heady high energy. Just 2 small dabs and I'm good for a few hours. My question for you guys is I think my filtering could be better. I know everything has been purged well and there is no more ISO in my oil but I feel like there might just be a tad bit of plant matter. Should I have filtered again after my 24 hour winterization?

G'day RheinRover,

If you think your extract is not "pure" enough this may be due to your solvent being junked out. Which essentially means the levels of chlorophyll were high due to the product being cured improperly or in the most stereotypical of scenarios where bud sits in the solvent for too long. With that said it sounds like your wash time was very brief so it's less likely to encounter a solvent requiring scrubbing. There are a few common methods used to remove chlorophyll from cannabis extract. Taking the oil you have currently and blending it with a mixture half part Hexane (solvent) half part water. The Chlorophyll naturally wants to bond to the water as where the Terpenes and Cannabinoids want to bond with the solvent. Simply strain out the water and purge your oil once more. You can repeat this process until you reach your desired quality. There are a handful of other ways to achieve this without using more solvents that may be difficult to get. There is also Bentonite clay that is very efficient at collecting Chlorophyll so mix it through your wash before it becomes an oil and it will grab all the chlorophyll out of your wash (My wife uses it on her skin but it works wonders for scrubbing solvents )

Hope this was helpful even if the diagnosis isn't 100% accurate

 

[SweetSue]

Growlow, the Bentonite is an excellent and unexpected idea. At what point in the process would you add that? Be specific please. A total newbie here.

 

[MagicJim]

Hey Everyone!
Just wanted to come over and share my recent experience with making oil. I made an oil I could dab instead of taking orally but followed all of Sue's steps except I didn't decarb first. I started with 14g of Royal Queen Seeds Easy Bud. Was 1 of my first 2 plants I started last November, chopped in February and has been curing since. I wasn't a huge fan of the smoke so thought why not turn it into oil. I used a small grinder and just gave everything a quick once over before putting in the freezer for 24 hours. I used 99.9% ISO since finding anything like Everclear where I live is a bit difficult. I set the timer for 3 min and started my wash. Did this 3 times and then put the wash into the freezer for another 24 hours before finally putting on the stove top. Now I am quite happy with my results. I had a yield of 3 grams which I am just over the moon about. The high is awesome, a very heady high energy. Just 2 small dabs and I'm good for a few hours. My question for you guys is I think my filtering could be better. I know everything has been purged well and there is no more ISO in my oil but I feel like there might just be a tad bit of plant matter. Should I have filtered again after my 24 hour winterization?

I've only made oil once and although I believe it was fairly clean some fine particles of dark matter remained in the oil. My process mirrors 420 Motoco's original method which basically states wash as fast as you can without making a mess (paraphrased). I've read somewhere that the QWET wash should be limited to 8 minutes but that certainly is controlled by the draining/filtering process and appears arbitrary but it might just be the time it takes for grain alcohol to come up to near room temperature. Anyway, I washed and filtered 3 times and just worked as fast as I could.

I never have figured out logically why the final liquid is frozen after the washes in other processes like yours. Makes absolutely no sense to me as the lipids and the chlorophyll would already be present at that point. Now if freezing would separate the chlorophyll somehow, then I'd agree a filtering step should follow that 24 hour winterization. I don't know. Only thing I've read about this is that if the bud material and solvent were frozen overnight fewer of the lipids and chlorophyll would be extracted.

I've also read to use un-bleached coffee filters as if that might make a difference. I never found a reason for that either.

In conclusion: Both of us got some plant material and some of it probably could have be filtered. I think that the oil could be filtered one more time during my process just before going to the final purging process. Likely, before it gets in this cup.

I hope that helps.

 

[Dave Groomer]

I've only made oil once and although I believe it was fairly clean some fine particles of dark matter remained in the oil. My process mirrors 420 Motoco's original method which basically states wash as fast as you can without making a mess (paraphrased). I've read somewhere that the QWET wash should be limited to 8 minutes but that certainly is controlled by the draining/filtering process and appears arbitrary but it might just be the time it takes for grain alcohol to come up to near room temperature. Anyway, I washed and filtered 3 times and just worked as fast as I could.

I never have figured out logically why the final liquid is frozen after the washes in other processes like yours. Makes absolutely no sense to me as the lipids and the chlorophyll would already be present at that point. Now if freezing would separate the chlorophyll somehow, then I'd agree a filtering step should follow that 24 hour winterization. I don't know. Only thing I've read about this is that if the bud material and solvent were frozen overnight fewer of the lipids and chlorophyll would be extracted.

I've also read to use un-bleached coffee filters as if that might make a difference. I never found a reason for that either.

In conclusion: Both of us got some plant material and some of it probably could have be filtered. I think that the oil could be filtered one more time during my process just before going to the final purging process. Likely, before it gets in this cup.

I hope that helps.

Good afternoon Jim!!!!

 

[SweetSue]

Its figuring out how to filter it at that stage. Do you think a coffee filter would be effective when it's that thick Jim?

 

[Dave Groomer]

Its figuring out how to filter it at that stage. Do you think a coffee filter would be effective when it's that thick Jim?

I use my filter from my MB2.

 

[MagicJim]

Good afternoon Jim!!!!

Hi SG. Yes, it's been good all day and the sun is trying it's best to pop through the clouds.

Its figuring out how to filter it at that stage. Do you think a coffee filter would be effective when it's that thick Jim?

Actually, at that stage it's fairly liquid and I'm thinking it could be run through a coffee filter but I'd rather use metal screen of some sort. I have a coffee machine somewhere with metal screen that might work better. My final oil mixed with grape seed oil could be poured but I'm not sure that it would drip. I'm thinking the porous paper material might just try to absorb it. That absorption could create quite a loss of product. Well...I guess at that point I'd be digesting some paper. Could be worse.

 

[Growlow]

Growlow, the Bentonite is an excellent and unexpected idea. At what point in the process would you add that? Be specific please. A total newbie here.

You would add after winterization. I think before attempting to deal with removing chlorophyll it'd be best to focus on the removal of the cuticle wax first ( the thin layer keeping all that gorgeous resin contained in it's tiny little globes. ).

 

[Chew]

SweetSue,

Here are my first Bio Bomb capsules. I'm assuming the small bubbles are due to finishing the oil before all co2 bubbles have gone? The Bio Bomb was warmed slightly otherwise i wouldn't have got it inside capsules. These seem to appear when heat is added.

I had this when i first made the Bio Bomb too before placing in the fridge. Again, in a warm water bath to mix

The bubbles were also in the syringes when i first made the oil.

 

[Chew]

I also have another question,

When making the oil, if all co2 bubbles have gone, thats higher in CBN, right?
If this is what i wanted, higher CBN, would the oil still contain enough THC to be affective against cancer?

 

[PeeJay]

Sue, it's sort of fun watching you thrash around in the world of pharmacology.

First pass metabolism is always a problem and I'm glad that you have a little understanding of it. Ok...

It's a problem that dictates dosage to achieve therapeutic level. What goes in relative to what is neutralized in the liver or sucked out by the kidneys - or oxidized, or whatever.

If you run a positive energy balance much of the lipid based cannaboids get sequestered in adipose tissue... Only to make you fail your piss test at work 2 weeks later...

First pass metabolism... The most basic end-run to get around first pass metabolism is to increase dosage in anticipation of metabolic attrition. This is problematic if there are harmful metabolites. So far, that does not seem to be an issue with cannabis.

Bioavailability is one of your new favorite words. The easiest way to increase bioavailability is to increase dosage, not eat mangos.

 

[PeeJay]

As far as filtering goes, who cares if there is a little plant material in the oil if it's for oral, sublingual, or topical administration? If you want to have pure golden dabs that burn kitchen clean, that's a different thing, isn't it?

CCO as it applies to this thread? A little plant matter is a non-issue. A clean dab is not the point here, is it?

 

[SweetSue]

Sue, it's sort of fun watching you thrash around in the world of pharmacology.

First pass metabolism is always a problem and I'm glad that you have a little understanding of it. Ok...

It's a problem that dictates dosage to achieve therapeutic level. What goes in relative to what is neutralized in the liver or sucked out by the kidneys - or oxidized, or whatever.

If you run a positive energy balance much of the lipid based cannaboids get sequestered in adipose tissue... Only to make you fail your piss test at work 2 weeks later...

First pass metabolism... The most basic end-run to get around first pass metabolism is to increase dosage in anticipation of metabolic attrition. This is problematic if there are harmful metabolites. So far, that does not seem to be an issue with cannabis.

Bioavailability is one of your new favorite words. The easiest way to increase bioavailability is to increase dosage, not eat mangos.

Thank you for stopping by PeeJay. I was wondering when we'd catch your eye and engage that brilliant mind.

Bioavailability isn't just my new favorite word PeeJay. It appears to be the intention of serious clinicians in cannabis therapy to both increase bioavailability and reduce dosage through managed scheduling and careful monitoring. Cannabis needs to be dosed individually anyway, since everyone's body will react differently.

There's also evidence that increasing dosages past a certain point becomes counter productive, so, I'll have to disagree with you on that point.

Mangos are a delicious and nutritious way to assist the body in clearing the cannabinoid receptors. I love mangoes. I love that eating mangoes and drinking mango juice is helping to keep me healthy and I encourage others to do the same, 30-45 minutes before you plan to dose with cannabis. What not give the body that one more advantage?

I hear you on the storage in fatty tissue though. The ultimate disposition of the stored cannabinoids is something I've yet to gain a rudimentary understanding of. Our goal is to initially keep enough cannabinoids from being metabolized by the liver to be a positive influence in healing. We suggest much more than simply eating mangoes.