SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[SweetSue]

And some thoughts Cajun had on the Bio Bomb and beginning a protocol that I thought might come in handy. This one was edited down to remove personal comments and to correct spelling.

His diet should be sugar free. No glucose, little fructose. High on Omega-3's. I recommend the Alkaline Diet, but balance it with protein and add MCT oils/fats.
You don't need to worry about demethylating at this point. We'll get him doing that later.
I would make the diluted mix at 1:20 (ccomega-3 oil). add 1 tbsp. of liquid non-soy lecithin.
Let it sit, thoroughly mixed, in the frig for 24 hours.
Make the Canna Budwig oil... (Note* This is what we're now referring to as the Bio Bomb)
Use this mix as your carrier in the suppositories which will taken 5x a day, 15 min after ingesting the supplements I listed earlier. Especially with the mangoes, garlic, vitamin D3, selenium, and fish-based Omega 3's, melatonin, ect.

The rest, 25%, should be taken by oro-mucosal (tacking) and ingesting the Canna Budwig w/ the added lecithin and low fat cottage cheese. Do not use the Cannabis Budwig/Cellect protocol which is very similar.

Up the dosage to 10:1 in 5 days, then to 5:1 another 5 days. He'll need a PET scan after to see which direction to take. around then.

The bioavailability of this method (Bio Bomb) along with the synergistic effects of the supplements listed boost the therapeutic effects of our beloved plant 50 fold as well as the Competitive Inhibition which keeps them in our bodies longer.

To not add this at least in some way is just wasting meds. This can be implemented with "tacking" as well.

 

[SweetSue]

Gathering supplies. I think all I lack now are non-lignin flaxseed oil, capsules and Cocoa butter.

oh yeah, and a harvest behind me. Working on that one. Plants will be coming down within weeks now.

Apparently I have enough stored in my system that I'm not yet feeling the effects of being without. Some of that could also be chalked up to a joyful attitude, I'm sure. Nothing like haveing a passion to completely absorb your attention.

 

[SweetSue]

Dr. Jeffery Hergenrather, President of the Society of Cannabis Clinicians, addressed the issue of cannabinoid ratios as follows:

“While cannabinoid ratios in most cannabis may be about the same, it is the terpene content which typically creates the different qualities that we have parsed as the difference between Indicas and Sativas for some time. It is highly likely that terpenes may very well alter the properties of the cannabinoids. Standardized testing is essential to the advancement of our understanding of this issue.”

 

[Dave Groomer]

Just came from my cannabis dr. I have to see him every 2 months to keep my card. I told him about the study hall and he showed some interest and may stop in. Thanks Sue!!!

 

[SweetSue]

Just came from my cannabis dr. I have to see him every 2 months to keep my card. I told him about the study hall and he showed some interest and may stop in. Thanks Sue!!!

No, thank you supergroomer. I'd love to get a doctor's feedback on how we're progressing.

I was just on my way to the coffee shop to sit for a while with a nice cup of tea and relax for a few before I jumped into Callanetics.

 

[SlowToke]

Dr. Jeffery Hergenrather, President of the Society of Cannabis Clinicians, addressed the issue of cannabinoid ratios as follows:

“While cannabinoid ratios in most cannabis may be about the same, it is the terpene content which typically creates the different qualities that we have parsed as the difference between Indicas and Sativas for some time. It is highly likely that terpenes may very well alter the properties of the cannabinoids. Standardized testing is essential to the advancement of our understanding of this issue.”

Sue, is there a link to this?

Thanks!

 

[SweetSue]

Sue, is there a link to this?

Thanks!

I stumbled onto The MedicalJane site today and found this in an article by Dr. Malik Burnett on Cannabinoid Ratios. It's not a link I can provide within site guidelines.

 

[fookinel]

I sure hope that helps. If I can be of additional assistance, just let me know.

It did! I appreciate you taking the time to respond

Keep in mind here that I couldn't even guess about my concentration since no measurements were taken during processing the oil.

I understand. I've started making the CCO/oil/lecithin mix and stupid me forgot to measure the CCO! What I bought should be 1g and the scale I have only has a resolution of 1g so I don't think I could get a very accurate measurement, but still, it only occurred to me after I had added the CCO that I never tried to measure how much there was!

When I'm done (as the CCO hasn't completely dissolved in the oil) I'll post here what I did

 

[fookinel]

Thankfully PsyCro reminded me here to mention essential oils.

I believe there was some discussion over there about using essential oils and concerns about diluting the CCO (with or without a carrier oil), however, there's nothing to stop someone taking additional terpenes in addition to the CCO! I don't know what's safe to take and in that post PsyCro mentions using a very small amount of essential oil with approximately 1 drop of a few essential oils per 10 mls of olive oil extract (not to be confused with CCO in an olive oil carrier). However, there may be other things that can be taken which some people may consider safer or preferable to those essential oils.

For example, in cajuncelt's protocol here he/she mentions taking mango prior to dosing. My understanding is it's the myrcene in mangoes that's wanted which is also found in lemongrass oil, and more importantly, hops (which are also members of the Cannabaceae family). For the person I'm trying to help we're looking at substituting a hops extract for the mango prior to dosing as a safe way to get the myrcene. From my understanding 1 drop prior to the dose should be enough, however, whatever amount is taken it will probably be bitter so it may need sweetening or diluting!

I'm assuming these and other terpene sources would be relevant to one of the headings in SweetSue's initial post for this thread.

 

[SweetSue]

Thankfully PsyCro reminded me here to mention essential oils.

I believe there was some discussion over there about using essential oils and concerns about diluting the CCO (with or without a carrier oil), however, there's nothing to stop someone taking additional terpenes in addition to the CCO! I don't know what's safe to take and in that post PsyCro mentions using a very small amount of essential oil with approximately 1 drop of a few essential oils per 10 mls of olive oil extract (not to be confused with CCO in an olive oil carrier). However, there may be other things that can be taken which some people may consider safer or preferable to those essential oils.

For example, in cajuncelt's protocol here he/she mentions taking mango prior to dosing. My understanding is it's the myrcene in mangoes that's wanted which is also found in lemongrass oil, and more importantly, hops (which are also members of the Cannabaceae family). For the person I'm trying to help we're looking at substituting a hops extract for the mango prior to dosing as a safe way to get the myrcene. From my understanding 1 drop prior to the dose should be enough, however, whatever amount is taken it will probably be bitter so it may need sweetening or diluting!

I'm assuming these and other terpene sources would be relevant to one of the headings in SweetSue's initial post for this thread.

With each passing day I'm more convinced that our best bet is to determine the most effective way to decarb that maintains the highest level of terpenes and flavinoids. We'll need some serious testing done to get this figured out to our satisfaction, but I'm certain that's going to be one of our more valuable oitcomes from this project.

Maybe this will come in handy. This recipe was one I came across in a blog somewhere about demethylation. I've lost the reference to it and haven't been able to find it since. I've since gotten better at holding on to that information.

Essential Oil Capsules

Size 0 capsules containing 5 drops of the essential oil (detailed below) topped up with Virgin Olive Oil. Take one of each of the following twice per day during the demethylation cycle (*Note* I'm still trying to pin down how often one uses a demethylation cycle) and it's best to drink lots of water/liquid with them.

5 drops of essential oregano oil topped up with virgin olive oil. The oregano oil is very potent. Wash your hands after use. It's normal to get a heat sensation after taking it. Oregano is a strong anti-fungal.

5 Drops of essential lemon oil topped up with virgin olive oil
5 Drops of essential Clove oil topped up with virgin olive oil


These are used as a demethylation aide, but I'd expect the technique will work for any essential oils.

 

[SweetSue]

While I was searching unsuccessfully for that reference, I stumbled upon this. Turns out hemp oil is a wonderful source of Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids. I got a bottle as one of my prize packages for the MOTY. I believe this oil can join the list of options.

This is from Cannabis.info, and the article's entitled "Nutritional Value of Cannabis."

The greatest nutritional value of Cannabis seed is in its oil or fat content. Cannabis seed is approximately thirty-five percent (by weight) Essential Fatty Acids or EFAs. The EFAs are considered a perfect ratio of 3:1 between Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids, a ratio that reduces the risk of cancer and cardiovascular disease, the most prevalent chronic illnesses found in Western civilization. Hemp seed oil has zero cholesterol but it does contain five percent monosaturated and five percent saturated fatty acids. Cardiovascular disease, cancer, inflammatory, auto-immune, and possibly Alzheimer's diseases have all been linked to excessive Omega 6 levels in the diet.


An easy way to incorporate hemp seed oil into your diet is by taking capsules daily
While hemp oil contains 3:1 more Omega-6 than Omega-3, it is still far less than the average diet of 12:1 or 20:1. This high ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids is a modern phenomenon and some say our bodies are not responding well. One reason for this change is the diet fed to livestock. Where once livestock grazed on grass, they are now fed a grain-based diet. Corn is the primary grain used to feed livestock and corn is ubiquitous in the modern civilized diet in ways we do not think about. Most sweeteners are corn-based and do not come from expensive sugar cane, as they once did. Omega-6 oils are the ones found in vegetables, seeds and nuts. This grain-based diet changes the Fatty Acid ratio in livestock, as it does in humans.

The one important Omega-6 oil to consume is GLA. This source of Omega-6 has been shown to lower inflammatory states and certain disease processes. It is a precursor to arachidonic acid, itself a precursor of anti-inflammatory mediators in the body and other EFAs we need for good health. Arachidonic acid is also a precursor for anandamide, one of our body's endocannabinoids. Hemp seed oil is 1% GLA.

The important Omega-3 fatty acids to consume are EPA and DHA. ALA, a third Omega-3 fatty acid, requires conversion to DHA and EPA before the body can use it and this is done with only ten-percent efficiency in our bodies. Hemp seed oil is better quality oil that contains EFAs in the form of both Omega-6 and Omega-3, in a perfect ratio.

Hemp seed oil has been shown in animal testing to reduce sensitivity to pain and depressive mental states and these results are likely due to the EFAs it contains. The more Omega-3 we consume, the better it is for our health because Omega-3 competes with Omega-6 for a limited number of receptor sites, receptor sites that would otherwise increase inflammation when linked with Omega-6 fatty acids. EFAs consumed in the proper ratio not only decrease the risk of disease but also promote healthy nervous system activity and the proper production of hormones and steroids.

I've been up now for two hours and just realized I haven't had breakfast yet. I'll be back.

 

[fookinel]

While I was searching unsuccessfully for that reference, I stumbled upon this. Turns out hemp oil is a wonderful source of Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids. I got a bottle as one of my prize packages for the MOTY. I believe this oil can join the list of options.

I've heard plenty of good things about both hemp seed and hemp seed oil!

There were a few reasons why I chose not to use hemp seed oil as a carrier. First, olive oil seemed to be good at getting in to the lymphatic system (the jury is still out as to which is the best carrier for this) hopefully reducing first-pass metabolism. Second, I saw PsyCro using it as an extraction solvent so that may be a more conservative approach to use something someone else has used in a similar role. Finally, olive oil seems more stable at room temperature (i.e. I normally see hemp seed and flaxseed oils stored in the fridge while olive oil normally isn't) which was how I wanted to mix things (without adding additional heat, just room temperature).

Otherwise, I would have liked to use other oils such as grape seed, hemp seed, or flaxseed!

 

[fookinel]

When I'm done (as the CCO hasn't completely dissolved in the oil) I'll post here what I did

Okay, I want to get this person I'm trying to help taking as much CCO as soon as possible and the CCO is almost completely dissolved in olive oil so I'll share what I've done and what we will do from now.

Please note that all measurements are using weight which I find to be more accurate and repeatable than volume.

First, I mixed what should be 1g of CCO (I never measured it and couldn't measure it accurately anyway, but that's what I bought!) with 20g extra virgin olive oil (an Australian brand named Cobram Estate, the "Classic" flavour version) in a glass jar. I did this at room temperature over the period of a couple of days and I shook the glass jar from time to time (I'm not sure if this made any difference). Next time I'll make this well in advance and won't bother shaking it so I can see how well it mixes on it's own.

In a separate glass jar I mixed 15g liquid sunflower lecithin (it was the NOW foods brand) with 40g of the extra virgin olive oil. I also did this at room temperature and shook the jar quite vigorously, it seemed to mix well (with plenty of air bubbles!) and didn't seem to separate. I made this mix at the same time as the CCO/olive oil mix to see if there was any separation. It seems pretty stable so far and I'll continue to make the lecithin/olive oil mix at the same time I make the CCO/olive oil mix.

Finally, I combined the two by pouring the lecithin/olive oil mix in to the jar containing the CCO/olive oil mix as I'd rather waste lecithin than CCO! This should give a CCO:lecithinlive oil ratio of 1:15:60 which gives a lecithinlive oil ratio of 1:4 by weight.

The person I'm trying to help has tried one drop under the tongue as a starting point and didn't feel anything. Tomorrow morning they'll be trying a few drops under the tongue and assuming they don't feel anything then we'll try a '00' sized capsule full tomorrow night about 30-40mins after dinner. From there we'll gauge how they respond and work to increase the number of capsules at a time as well as the frequency to at least 3x a day (all about 30-40mins after a meal) for now. Later on we will be looking at adding hops extract in place of mango prior to a dose, I also want them to take apigenin prior to a dose if it can be managed with their medications, and they did have some green tea previously which I need to get them to start having more often!

When the CCO is completely dissolved I'll be storing the mix in the fridge and I'm planning to store the capsules in a dark, airtight container in the fridge (I'm also considering a desiccant but I'm not sure it will be necessary).

Some tips for other people:

• You'll want some digital scales. I used kitchen scales with a resolution of 1g. The more accurate and better the resolution the better.
  
  
• You'll want two glass jars which can hold around 100-150mls. I believe the ones I used hold around 120mls and they're the perfect size with just a little room to spare. The main things are that they're:
  
  • clear so you can see what's going on; and
  • capable of holding 1g CCO + 15g lecithin + 60g olive oil in total; and
  • not too much bigger than that (to avoid wasting CCO and lecithin).
• You may like to use some aluminium foil to wrap the glass jars in to protect the contents from light. You can then take the aluminium foil away to check the contents and re-wrap the glass jar after. The main thing here is to protect the contents from any possible degradation, I'm not sure it's necessary but it's simple to do so I figured it was worth wrapping both jars just in case.
  
  
• If you shake the CCO and olive oil check to make sure that the CCO has not stuck to the sides of the jar and is submersed in the olive oil to help them mix.

If there are any comments of questions then fire away!

 

[SweetSue]

I've heard plenty of good things about both hemp seed and hemp seed oil!

There were a few reasons why I chose not to use hemp seed oil as a carrier. First, olive oil seemed to be good at getting in to the lymphatic system (the jury is still out as to which is the best carrier for this) hopefully reducing first-pass metabolism. Second, I saw PsyCro using it as an extraction solvent so that may be a more conservative approach to use something someone else has used in a similar role. Finally, olive oil seems more stable at room temperature (i.e. I normally see hemp seed and flaxseed oils stored in the fridge while olive oil normally isn't) which was how I wanted to mix things (without adding additional heat, just room temperature).

Otherwise, I would have liked to use other oils such as grape seed, hemp seed, or flaxseed!

Good point about the storage requirements. Hadn't considered that, and when I write it up I'll remember to keep that caution in the info. That olive oil extraction intrigues me. I want to make some and get it tested. I'm not certain if PsyCro has tested any of his, and I'm feeling more certain that we'll be surprised at what's really going on in that mix.

 

[SweetSue]

fookinel, thank you for the detailed write up. Reps + for that. As I was reading it I realized I have some black felt slips that I could use to set the jars in. I'd made them planning to use them as a replacement for solo cups and never used them in that regard. I almost threw them away last week. Now I'll set them aside.

 

[PsyCro]

Good point about the storage requirements. Hadn't considered that, and when I write it up I'll remember to keep that caution in the info. That olive oil extraction intrigues me. I want to make some and get it tested. I'm not certain if PsyCro has tested any of his, and I'm feeling more certain that we'll be surprised at what's really going on in that mix.

Unfortunately all i have is decarb info from my first run, done with dry material instead of fresh.. approx. 75% THCa converted to THC. It was an off-the-books lab analysis, a friend of a friend, didn't get too much info. If you manage a complete analysis.. yipeee!!

Finally, I combined the two by pouring the lecithin/olive oil mix in to the jar containing the CCO/olive oil mix as I'd rather waste lecithin than CCO! This should give a CCO:lecithinlive oil ratio of 1:15:60 which gives a lecithinlive oil ratio of 1:4 by weight.

Seems to me you will need a good 60-70 drops to equal a dose of 'the size of a grain of rice' .. so i figure, maybe 10 drops would be a good starting point?
Anyhow, let us know how it goes!

 

[SweetSue]

Unfortunately all i have is decarb info from my first run, done with dry material instead of fresh.. approx. 75% THCa converted to THC. It was an off-the-books lab analysis, a friend of a friend, didn't get too much info. If you manage a complete analysis.. yipeee!!

I have every intention of doing just that PsyCro. I still have to figure out logistics, but I'll make it happen somehow. I really want to know the profile of your extraction technique.

Seems to me you will need a good 60-70 drops to equal a dose of 'the size of a grain of rice' .. so i figure, maybe 10 drops would be a good starting point?
Anyhow, let us know how it goes!

Thanks for the input here.

I'm so glad all you guys are here. I'd never be able to do this alone.

 

[SweetSue]

I was reviewing SkunkPharm's QWET method and had some thoughts about it I wanted to toss out.

SkunkPharms Research: QWET Extraction

There were a couple interesting parts to their process I may play with when I get around to making my own, but this is what stood out to me:

- They didn't decarb in the oven, but they did dry it on a tray in a 200 degree oven until it crumbled easily. Take that temp up a bit more and they could have decarbed it right then and there. This would have simplified their process, I'd think. After it was dry they placed the plant material into the jar for freezing while it was still warm, to tie up any remaining water as ice.

- When they wrote this they didn't use any oven bag to seal in the vapors, but they were only drying. At those temps though, they were losing terpenes and flavinoids. I'm sticking with oven decarb before, inside an oven bag. I might try Shiggity's technique of sealing it in a bag and tossing it into a water bath. My gut tells me this might give us the highest numbers of those valuable terpenes and flavinoids, I just won't know how much difference it makes over simply using the oven bag without testing. One more for the list.

- No use of a grinder to break down the material. It creates a fine powder that'll pass through the filters and pollute the oil. Break it down by hand. If using stem in the mix, use kitchen shears to chop it down to size, not worrying too much about it. The trichomes you're going for here are on the surface. It just needs to fit into your jar.

- They dry out the plant material in between washes and then go through the entire winterizing process again before the second wash. I'm not certain this is necessary, but I haven't tried and checked with a microscope myself. They are, after all, respected researchers, so I have to trust that they know what they're talking about. I may follow their lead here when I make my own.

- They only do two washes, based on their microscopic check that by that point the vast majority of trichome heads have been removed. They save the rest for other extractions and they've gotten some decent last pulls with BHO method, something I won't be working with. It got me thinking though, that I might want to do a third wash into a separate container and compare the color against the combined first two washes to see if there was more chlorophyll in that wash. From what I've determined, at the end of the washes I want very little green in those jars before I toss them back into the freezer for the final step of winterizing.

- They also don't press at all, just let it drain. Obviously this step wouldn't work if you were doing three quick back-to-back washes, something I'm now wondering if I want to avoid to get a purer oil.

- SkunkPharms keeps their washes separate, since they have different properties. Thinking about this I couldn't help wondering why? Wouldn't you want to keep it all together? I'm sure that first wash is the cream of the crop. Maybe start a policy of using the first wash for oil that's going to be ingested and the later washes for topicals?

- Another member and I have been working through his first oil-making adventure and I was at SkunkPharm because we were curious as to the necessity of a second filtering directly following the freeze of the washes and before boiling off the solvent. They didn't strain after winterizing, but they did filter the oil through fine screens (very fine) when the solvent was boiled off and before decarb really got started. I found this step fascinating, and I bet it does much to improve the flavor of the end product. They also mention this step can be done through a coffee filter, although I can't imagine that a coffee filter would be my choice here. I have a very fine stainless strainer I'll be using.

There were a couple steps here, most particularly the filtering of the oil after solvent evaporation, that look like they'd improve the final product, and when you're dealing with patients with serious health issues I can see how one might want to take those extra cautions.

You know guys, in the end we're going to have this process down to a fine science, making some of the finest oil you can get. At least that's my plan. Lots of trial and error ahead, eh?

 

[MagicJim]

They didn't strain after winterizing, but they did filter the oil through fine screens (very fine) when the solvent was boiled off and before decarb really got started. I found this step fascinating, and I bet it does much to improve the flavor of the end product. They also mention this step can be done through a coffee filter, although I can't imagine that a coffee filter would be my choice here. I have a very fine stainless strainer I'll be using.

Any small impurities will have a tendency to cook (can be thought of as roasting or even burning) during the final step in Motoco's procedure. At least that's what mine turned out like. This step would have prevented that for my oil. No doubt this would have also improve the taste.

 

[SweetSue]

Any small impurities will have a tendency to cook (can be thought of as roasting or even burning) during the final step in Motoco's procedure. At least that's what mine turned out like. This step would have prevented that for my oil. No doubt this would have also improve the taste.

So Jim, do you think a coffee filter would work at this stage better than a fine screen strainer?