SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[Neiko]

Hey Canyon , I recently added an extra 1/4 cup of dry kief to my last CCO batch to get more oil while saving alcohol. Just be sure to monitor the cook off of the alcohol since you will have to remove it from the heat source a lot sooner then you normally would. I believe the reason was, is that I had to much oil now "suspended" into the alcohol. I really had to agitate and swish it around sooner then I normally would because it started to "burn"(and I only use low heat 185-200). I think this is a reason why you need to use a certain parts of alcohol to a certain parts of material. I will not add any extra kief unless I am going to add extra alcohol. If ya want to save Alcohol and still have the finest quality oil I suggest the SCET method(my method of choice) and use COffee filters with 6-8 jars and funnels, the quicker you can filter and get back into the freezer the less chance of chlorophyll and plant waxes dissolving back into your oil. I will use over 50 coffee filters when filtering 200 gram batches. You will get a cleaner & purer final product. I tried mesh screens , micro screens etc...I just found the coffee filters better, it is just a longer process but better. Also for neiko dog I would definitely filter what you have into the pic at least 2 more times. I filter my dry material then put back into the freezer for 6-8 hrs(may not take that long) to allow all sediment to settle back to the bottom, be gentle when you filter the 2nd time since you do not want to agitate sediment. Have a separate jar and funnel for the last little bit to pour in. After you filter for the final time I put back into the freezer for a bit to make sure there is no more sediment suspended. I will pour carefully into my cooker and use a filter for my remaining cup full out of each jar to be sure I eliminate all sediments. And the oil comes out Fabulous!......Yes SWEETUM'S you can reformat that for me But hey! each for their own!

Well too late. There was some waxy build up in the bottom of the jar but I didn't know what to do so I shook it up and proceeded to boil it off. I ended up with 4 grams into syringes and an unknown amount on the spatula and left in the pan. I put that in the freezer to collect later. I will strain it again next time for sure. I'll take it to the lab tomorrow and we'll see how it came out. Next time I'll filter again and retest.

I forgot to get the last pic when it was done but there were no visible bubbles left. The whole boil off took about an hour and twenty minutes.

 

[SweetSue]

panacea, do you know where I could find information on doing SCET? I did a cursory look and cant locate anything, and I need to run some errands, so I have to suspend my search.

 

[panacea]

Labrat had good detailed info on the scet method. I will see if I can locate it for ya.

 

[Canyon]

Thanks panacea, I had to look up SCET. What I have done is use the QWET method and extended the times.

I did not know what I was doing, just try this or that and see what worked. Eventually I modified a pressure cooker to use as a still.

Most of what I made was a concentrated tincture or thick oil. I also burned my share.

I have two other toys to play with. One is a vacuum chamber that I have only run for a short while. I have no experience with it. The other is a high pressure hot plate I have done some Rosen Teck experimenting with. It kept three of us going a few days over Christmas using kief. Both look to be about fifty years old.

First things first, make the kief and see how much there is to play with.

I will try to get a friend over and get some images of the kief separation process. Most likely it will be next week with the amount of projects I have going.

About the filters, I have considered getting a vacuum funnel and commercial filters. That may be the way to go for you with the larger batches.

Best

 

[SweetSue]

Panacea, I already have Labrat's write up in my blog. What a blonde moment.

 

[panacea]

Re: 39% extraction yield RSO



They use very precise lab equipment but he says a regular freezer is fine but the colder the better. My moms freezer takes things down to 20*F (-5*C) and he said that works fine.

This is a verbatim account of what he said; after years of testing what works and what doesn't here's what he said. Quickly its like this, stick your ethanol in the freezer, reduce the humidity of the bud by cooking at low temp (<200*F) for 10-20 minutes, freeze the bud (24 hours), grind the bud in a blender, freeze the bud (24 hours), decarb at 230*F for 1 hour, freeze the bud (24 hours), mix with the alcohol, leave in the freezer for 24 hours, filter through a metal strainer, leave in the freezer for an additional 24 hours, filter through coffee filters (1st winterize). Extraction complete.

Evaporate the alcohol at as low a temperature as possible, at around 25% of starting volume stop and stick in the freezer for 48 hours, re-filter once more with coffee filter (2nd winterizing).

Let me check my notes but I find it more time consuming and complicated.


This is a excerpt from Labrat's thread. I suggest reading the entire thread since there are some knowlegable people on there with great methods and suggestions.

 

[SweetSue]

According to Cajun, Lab Rat abandoned this technique. So will we.

A link to the thread:

Improved Yield RSO

Most people out there do the QWET or Quick Wash Ethanol method which yields about 3-4 grams of oil per ounce or around 13% to 14% extraction yield. The total cannabinoid content of an ounce is about 5-5.5 grams of oil, anything above that is just chlorophyll and plant waxes.

The "SCET" method or Slow Cold Ethanol will output maximum cannabinoid content while keeping the chlorophyll and plant waxes locked away in a frozen state. Extraction yield will be 17% to 19% while your oil should look more translucent like maple syrup.

This method improves upon the one posted by 420 Motoco on his main thread so I will not cover the entire extraction:

How To Make Concentrated Cannabis Oil

I do a couple of quick blasts in a food processor, it helps break up the buds and lowers the amount of ethanol needed to cover the product.

Stick all your ethanol and product in the freezer for at least 12 hours. Once your ethanol reaches the coldest temperature your freezer can provide you are done, its not going to get colder by waiting any longer but you do want your product to freeze so 12 hours should be fine.

Mix your product with your ethanol in a jar with a lid and give it a good shake, put back in the freezer for 12 hours. After 12 hours shake again and put back in the freezer for another 12 hours, shake one last time and strain to get the big stuff out.

Strain through a coffee filter, for high amounts you want to do it through several filters at the same time to avoid warming up your ethanol. At those extremely low temperatures things will get stuck in the filter which would be liquid at room temperature. This is commonly referred to as "winterizing" or filtering while cold.

Evaporate the ethanol and decarb as per Motoco's instructions.

I've talked to people who say using a blender/food processor makes the terpenes go away and they would rather go by hand and break up the buds. I have motor skills issues so I use a food processor, also the person that shared this method said he grounds it as well but his smallest batch is 4 lbs.

• if your freezer has a thermostat set it to its lowest setting
• avoid opening the freezer or you might need more time than the 12 hours
• a good rule of thumb is to place a ice cube tray with lukewarm water next to your bud/ethanol. If its frozen after 12 hours you're golden.
•170 proof is 85% while I use 96% which is close to 190. If even rum or vodka won't freeze in the freezer at less than 40% I guess it will but I haven't tried it.

Hey Cajuncelt, still alive and talking about a subject that makes most people uncomfortable but as an ex-pilot non recreational guy in a wheelchair I have a surprising amount of weight when it comes to these subjects. I'll also be turning 40 this year (more cred!!!).

Winterizing, very important. I'm the master of dirty oil so it became critical for me.

With the help of a chemist (dad) I started increasing my yields, stupid amounts, my best pull was 49% yield or 14 grams per ounce. My main provider back then was a grower friend who would donate the stuff and let me keep a third of whatever I extracted so it was in my best interest to pull a lot.

In June, at a conference here in Costa Rica I met some people from Colorado who were doing extractions at an industrial scale with lab analysis and all. I talked to the guy and he said something like this: "An ounce of bud has in between 5 and 7 grams of cannabinoids in it. Getting 3 or 4 grams leaves a good 20% behind. On the other hand by pulling so much you are getting all the cannabinoids out but a bunch of other stuff like waxes and chlorophyll."

I still use my hot extraction method but I winterize twice and filter 3 times and I only use it if I plan to make oil for topical applications because it has a very strong taste. I still get 7-8 grams per ounce.

For oral I only use my cold long method.

 

[panacea]

I do a couple things differently. Like not double decarbing. And not stopping at 25%.

 

[panacea]

There is another thread SUE. "39% extraction yield RSO". I am quite sure you have not been on that thread yet since i have not seen you comment on it yet.

 

[SweetSue]

I do a couple things differently. Like not double decarbing. And not stopping at 25%.

When do you stop the evaporation process panacea?

I'll have to look the thread up when I get home. I'm sitting in the restaurant reading and posting as I eat, but this tiny screen is making my eyes tired.

Put it down Susan!!!

 

[CajunCelt]

Lab Rat abandoned this method.
I definitely would not put flowers/buds in the freezer.
The greater yields past 4 or 5g is usually due to more plant waxes, lipids, etc.
I guess it's been awhile, but Tim & I did cannabinoid profile testing on most of the known methods.
QWET had, by far, the greatest yield of cannabinoids. Especially THC/THCa.
I posted several of these tests a few years ago & so did he.

 

[fookinel]

I would think that whole plant extraction, using multiple small plants of different strains instead of one singular strain would give a higher quality of medicine. I've come across numerous mentions of the value of combining strains to get a more intense synergy going on. So maybe you won't have to rethink as much as you thought.

Sounds good, I'll keep going with the original plan then

When talking about higher quality medicine has anyone discussed lighting methods? I've seen the usual 18/6 and 12/12 as well as the gas lantern technique with 12/5.5/1/5.5 and a diminishing light cycle during flowering, however, it's generally been in relation to yields as opposed to composition...

I just remembered I have seeds to plant. You guys distracted me right out of bed.

What strain(s) are you going with this time?

 

[SweetSue]

Sounds good, I'll keep going with the original plan then

When talking about higher quality medicine has anyone discussed lighting methods? I've seen the usual 18/6 and 12/12 as well as the gas lantern technique with 12/5.5/1/5.5 and a diminishing light cycle during flowering, however, it's generally been in relation to yields as opposed to composition...

Something else to get tested somewhere along the way.

What strain(s) are you going with this time?

In Doc Bud's HB Kit soil I'm running Carnival (average 24% THC) and Bubba Kush (Cajun tempted me with his last grow). In LOS no-tills I've planted Strawberry Blue (for both oil and for recreational - this strain enhances libido ), Crossroads (private breeder, a cross of Durban Poison x Critical Overdrive x Blue Lotus), Azura Haze and of course another Dark Devil Auto, my signature strain, which I hope to someday get to do this lovely trick Kraise coaxed out of his latest

 

[fookinel]

There's a loooot of material in the olive oil to soak up the cannabinoids, i doubt its all that easy to saturate. Heck i've thought about mixing for example several liters of water with one liter of olive oil, and cram as much grass in as possible, give it a good blend, keep mixing, and theoretically you can get waaaaay more cannabinoids into the oil that way, and hence smaller doses. Problem is, i don't know what the optimum decarb time is for 98 degrees celsius, which is the max temp for that method..

edit..
How Long To Decarb In Dehydrator At 115F - Marijuana Edibles and Topicals: - Michigan Medical Marijuana Association

hmmm.. post #17 would indicate about 4 hours for 98 degrees celsius, might try that

I wish I could find where I saw it, I could have sworn it was in a document/page you referred to in one of your posts, anyway, I'm sure I saw mention of using the same oil to extract from multiple amounts of plant material.

I guess the easiest way to explain it is that you do your first extraction then remove the plant material and replace it with new plant material and so on. However, I thought I saw that you get less from the plant material the more you do this so while you might make a more potent oil you may also be less efficient overall. I think that trying to incorporate this in to your extraction method would be the biggest hurdle as you're also decarboxylating during the extraction.

I don't see how the water helps? I would have thought that you will still only have a certain amount of oil surface area in contact with the plant material and the addition of water may decrease that surface area and reduce the efficiency of the extraction. However, if you going to give it a go on a small quantity and test the results then I'm sure we'd all be interested to see how it goes!

My gut feeling is that the method you use is about the best way to do an olive oil extraction, the only tweaking I can think of is to optimise the time/temperature. A lower temperature for longer may result in a slightly more potent oil just from the additional time, then again it may make no difference at all...

 

[SweetSue]

Lab Rat abandoned this method.
I definitely would not put flowers/buds in the freezer.
The greater yields past 4 or 5g is usually due to more plant waxes, lipids, etc.
I guess it's been awhile, but Tim & I did cannabinoid profile testing on most of the known methods.
QWET had, by far, the greatest yield of cannabinoids. Especially THC/THCa.
I posted several of these tests a few years ago & so did he.

Thanks Cajun. Put this one aside then. Do you know if those test results got carried over to the new threads? I know some of yours were posted on page 7 of the Making CCO thread, but I haven't torn that thread apart like I'd hoped to do and I don't recall seeing any by Tim.

And let me ask you again, are you still using the complete plant to make your oil?

 

[fookinel]

In Doc Bud's HB Kit soil I'm running Carnival (average 24% THC) and Bubba Kush (Cajun tempted me with his last grow). In LOS no-tills I've planted Strawberry Blue (for both oil and for recreational - this strain enhances libido ), Crossroads (private breeder, a cross of Durban Poison x Critical Overdrive x Blue Lotus), Azura Haze and of course another Dark Devil Auto, my signature strain, which I hope to someday get to do this lovely trick Kraise coaxed out of his latest

I'm glad I asked!

That Carnival looks like a good short flowering sativa! So unless you have something negative to say about Carnival I think my next seed order (probably a little way off) will be for Carnival and CBD Critical Cure that I noticed from cajuncelt's signature. I'm glad that's sorted as there's way too much choice!

 

[SweetSue]

I'm glad I asked!

That Carnival looks like a good short flowering sativa! So unless you have something negative to say about Carnival I think my next seed order (probably a little way off) will be for Carnival and CBD Critical Cure that I noticed from cajuncelt's signature. I'm glad that's sorted as there's way too much choice!

I have nothing negative to say about Carnival. Be aware of the potency though, it's a meth-level high, and not for the faint of heart. It's extremely easy to grow, you'll get at least a minimum 2 ounces out the first time and it'll improve with familiarity. Tight, dense, resin coated buds that were some of the tastiest I've grown. It's my second favorite grown strain, right behind my beloved Dark Devil Auto. The breeders are anticipated to offer an auto version this summer. For oil I'd think the regular would be preferred.

I'm growing a CBD Critical Cure right now, at Cajun's recommendation. What a hearty plant she's turned out to be!

 

[fookinel]

I have nothing negative to say about Carnival.

Decision made, Carnival it is! With a description like "Unknown Haze x Unknown Mostly Sativa" from seedfinder how can you go wrong?!

While I was trying to find where I saw that info for PsyCro I stumbled across some pdf files I grabbed a while ago which you may find interesting. You can find them here and they're the links titled "Medicinal Cannabis Therapy" and "Medicinal Cannabis Therapy Cancer Treatments".

There's a fair amount of duplication between the two pdf files and plenty of things already covered but there may be some things of interest in there!

For anyone else that wishes to read those documents just be aware that they refer to citicoline which might be best avoided in treating cancer as it seems to promote angiogenesis.

 

[SweetSue]

So I'm reading through Radic-Al Conscious's "Medicinal Cannabis Therapy" and I now understand why we winterizing.

Ethanol is the only effective solvent used for extraction that will take up all three classes of components found to be of medicinal value in the cannabis plant - cannabinoids, terpenes and flavonoids. Unfortunately, it's non-selective enough as a solvent that it will also pull out chlorophyll, waxes and concrete oils that have no known medicinal value and will leave a bitter taste to the end product.

But Ethanol's properties can be manipulated by temperature. Freeze it and the plant material, and when you extract using a quick wash technique the solvent will pull out the beneficial components and leave the undesirable components in the plant material.

The keys here are "freezing cold" and "quick".

Ok, that makes much more sense to me now. Neiko, did that answer your question about the winterizing? You obviously worked quickly and efficiently when you made your oil yesterday, and that's why you got that nice golden wash. I recommend we add in the additional filtration we were discussing after the final winterizing step, right before boiling off the solvent, since the plant material has already been decarboxilated.

I have to tell you guys, reading through some of this stuff wearies me. There are so many points where I'm once again struck with how much damage the medical profession did to my husband by ignoring this medicine and other holistic approaches. He had chronic inflammation for the final years of his life and they treated it with pills that had little benefit, when a simple addition of flaxseed oil or hempseed oil, or even just shelled hemp seeds would have likely eliminated the problem in time. It makes me want to stand in the middle of a street and let out a primal scream sometimes.

I can't lay all the blame on them though. I was remiss myself in not looking for holistic solutions. I was brainwashed like everyone else to trust his doctors. I have to keep reminding myself that everything happens for a reason and everyone has a time limit. I didn't choose his and it just was. *sigh*.

I'm gonna go cry for a while now.

 

[SweetSue]

Sorry guys, that caught me off guard. A bit of sobbing relief followed by a little mindful breathing and I'm back to being motivated instead of feeling devastated.

Let me go and finish reading.

I like this statement a lot:


Remission for 7yr

It takes seven years to replace every cell in your body, so after 7yr with no sign of cancer, you win