- Thread starter
- #301
Now that I see that I remember it! Thanks GDB!Tim, here's one of the charts for autos that's been circulating.
And I want to thank you a lot!
Sweet Yet Haunted Seedsman's Purple Ghost Candy Comparative
- Thread starter StoneOtter
- Start date
That was an interesting read Keffka!Great choice! I’ll drop some bacteria info real quick for anyone interested. There is no obligation for anyone to respond, I just want to share a little, especially for those lurking with questions.
If you breed yourself, or seed your own branches, you will find that your plants will get progressively stronger and more efficient the longer they’re rebirthed in your environment. Meaning, the offspring you produce will perform better with each generation as the microbes in your environment and the plants preferred microbes come together. These specific seed based microbes are often referred to as endophytic bacteria, or, endophytes. If one has read up on myco, that endo part will be familiar. It’s the same meaning, endo, inside. I remember this because to me endo sounds almost like indoor.
Even if you don’t reproduce seeds yourself, you’ll find that your plants are more resilient to pests, diseases, and stress. Every strain benefits from these microbes, however, specific strains prefer specific strains of microbes more than others. A lot of this is down to lineage.
In the soil, plants have the ability to feed the microbes it needs at any given time. So when the sun is coming up and the ground is cool, there will be a set of microbes adapted to that specific environment that stand out when it comes to performing different tasks the plant needs. The plant will stop giving carbon to inefficient microbes and begin giving it to the ones who are currently most efficient.
Here’s a shot of a plant using exudates to attract the microbes:
As the day goes on and the environment changes, the plant redirects this carbon supply to microbes that are more efficient in the warmth and light. It also does the same thing with myco. It will give carbon to the most efficient myco strain while shutting down others.
This balancing act takes place constantly. So as plants live and die in an environment they begin to collect those microbes they found most useful. I will link a study about transmission at the end that details this process.
That rhizophagy process that I mentioned before, microbes enter the plant roots, build up to a critical mass, then literally explode out of the root. This is where root hairs come from. This process by itself can supply as much as 30% of a plants total N requirement on its own. Not to mention the other micro and macro nutrients the plant absorbs from the bacteria during this process.
Here’s an illustration of the cycle
A great example of these seed microbes is modern day corn. The ancestor of corn is a grass called teosinte. Teosinte has been bred into modern corn all over North America. Early teosinte seeds contained specific endophytic bacteria that can be found, today, in all modern versions of corn, even after all of that breeding. Anyone who has used beneficial bacteria will know some of the names: Clostridium, enterobacter, methylobacterium, Paenibacillus, pantoea, and pseudomonas. All found in teosinte, all found in modern corn.
I just realized how long this post is and I haven’t really even started lol. I could keep going but I don’t think others find bacteria as exciting as I do
Edit: forgot to add transmission link:
Transmission of Bacterial Endophytes - PMC
Plants are hosts to complex communities of endophytic bacteria that colonize the interior of both below- and aboveground tissues. Bacteria living inside plant tissues as endophytes can be horizontally acquired from the environment with each new ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
An aside: I've been working on my taxes this morning so I'm at ground zero. (Meaning I haven't medicated at all today.) I took a break from my tax work and happened upon your post. I read and comprehended! Had I been my usual zooted self all that information would have gone right over my head!
Nearly everything seems to like Pseudomonas, Keffka.I forgot to add this. Here’s a list of known endophytes and plants they benefit. Cannabis is on here with a few other plants for those with bigger gardens
So since I'm still at ground zero I decided to look it up and find out more. I now know that a whole bunch of shit is over my head, zooted or not!
- Thread starter
- #304
Tax day for me too yesterday. A late Zooting as well here.That was an interesting read Keffka!
An aside: I've been working on my taxes this morning so I'm at ground zero. (Meaning I haven't medicated at all today.) I took a break from my tax work and happened upon your post. I read and comprehended! Had I been my usual zooted self all that information would have gone right over my head!
There’s a few reasons for this currently. First, Pseudomonas is a genus that has, as far as we know, 313 different members that fill a wide range of niches. They’re easy to culture in a glass test environment, and there’s a greater amount of its strains with their genomes sequenced.
It’s the equivalent to low hanging fruit because it is a lot easier to perform research on it. With that, we’ve found strains that are pathogens and infect humans, but we’ve also found strains that promote plant growth, and fix Nitrogen. Since most plants grow, and need Nitrogen it is a pretty useful microbe across the board.
So since I'm still at ground zero I decided to look it up and find out more. I now know that a whole bunch of shit is over my head, zooted or not!
That’s going to have a lot to do with our education system. I bet you know the names of a bunch of dinosaurs and other random bits of information that aren’t very useful or applicable in your daily life, whereas you encounter bacteria all day every day.
It’s also fairly difficult to learn about a subject you can’t put your hands on or see completely. We can see the effects they have, we can see what they produce, but we can’t see them accurately without a powerful microscope. The microscope I have goes to 1000x and that’s barely enough to see bacteria, let alone be able to accurately identify the different strains. So instead we’re left with broad illustrations, low resolution images, and complex scientific terminology.
With newer microscopes and microscopy techniques it will become easier as we are able to really see what is occurring at the bacteria level. It will become more accessible as we’re able to produce high resolution images and videos and people aren’t forced to imagine stuff they’ve never seen in their mind.
JiggiLotus
Well-Known Member
My top DLI is 40 and sometimes my auto feels that's still too much light. Seeds DLI well at 25
JiggiLotus
Well-Known Member
Holy snip stone!! When you said chopped her head off..that's like being cut in half!! HahahahhaTHE HILLS ARE ALIVE! update
Good Saturday folks! I had to let her be for a couple of days and when I opened the tent today I was blown away with how beautifully she took hold and is doing! I'm so happy I chopped her head off!Those tiny scissors went to town creating a single node of growth. The second, so I cut off branches on the first and off with the top from third up!
Here's what she looked like last time I had a chance to look 3 days ago.
Kind of sad waiting for her to catch.
Then today! BOOM! As perky as can be!
So I saved the strong node and topped above that, and trimmed off the lower branches at node one below it.
She's coming along now! Tomorrow I'll Carhook her nice and flat and begin the even auxin training.
Have a great day!
Actually, I know two.
Dino & Godzilla.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry so I’ll cry laughing
Yeah, last year I got zooted before doing my taxes. I suspected I had messed up when at the end I was due a 2 million dollar refund.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
This is exactly why I start my seeds in used soil. I also include used soil in every pot I build. It's referred to as innoculation. It perpetuates all the useful strains of microbes/fungii.Great choice! I’ll drop some bacteria info real quick for anyone interested. There is no obligation for anyone to respond, I just want to share a little, especially for those lurking with questions.
If you breed yourself, or seed your own branches, you will find that your plants will get progressively stronger and more efficient the longer they’re rebirthed in your environment. Meaning, the offspring you produce will perform better with each generation as the microbes in your environment and the plants preferred microbes come together. These specific seed based microbes are often referred to as endophytic bacteria, or, endophytes. If one has read up on myco, that endo part will be familiar. It’s the same meaning, endo, inside. I remember this because to me endo sounds almost like indoor.
Even if you don’t reproduce seeds yourself, you’ll find that your plants are more resilient to pests, diseases, and stress. Every strain benefits from these microbes, however, specific strains prefer specific strains of microbes more than others. A lot of this is down to lineage.
In the soil, plants have the ability to feed the microbes it needs at any given time. So when the sun is coming up and the ground is cool, there will be a set of microbes adapted to that specific environment that stand out when it comes to performing different tasks the plant needs. The plant will stop giving carbon to inefficient microbes and begin giving it to the ones who are currently most efficient.
Here’s a shot of a plant using exudates to attract the microbes:
As the day goes on and the environment changes, the plant redirects this carbon supply to microbes that are more efficient in the warmth and light. It also does the same thing with myco. It will give carbon to the most efficient myco strain while shutting down others.
This balancing act takes place constantly. So as plants live and die in an environment they begin to collect those microbes they found most useful. I will link a study about transmission at the end that details this process.
That rhizophagy process that I mentioned before, microbes enter the plant roots, build up to a critical mass, then literally explode out of the root. This is where root hairs come from. This process by itself can supply as much as 30% of a plants total N requirement on its own. Not to mention the other micro and macro nutrients the plant absorbs from the bacteria during this process.
Here’s an illustration of the cycle
A great example of these seed microbes is modern day corn. The ancestor of corn is a grass called teosinte. Teosinte has been bred into modern corn all over North America. Early teosinte seeds contained specific endophytic bacteria that can be found, today, in all modern versions of corn, even after all of that breeding. Anyone who has used beneficial bacteria will know some of the names: Clostridium, enterobacter, methylobacterium, Paenibacillus, pantoea, and pseudomonas. All found in teosinte, all found in modern corn.
I just realized how long this post is and I haven’t really even started lol. I could keep going but I don’t think others find bacteria as exciting as I do
Edit: forgot to add transmission link:
Transmission of Bacterial Endophytes - PMC
Plants are hosts to complex communities of endophytic bacteria that colonize the interior of both below- and aboveground tissues. Bacteria living inside plant tissues as endophytes can be horizontally acquired from the environment with each new ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
If you pop seeds in paper towel, you lose a lot of the microbes that were in the seed that Mom packaged into it, to start the next generation's rhizosphere. They burst out of the seed and innoculate the paper towel.
JiggiLotus
Well-Known Member
Woohoo!!Yeah, last year I got zooted before doing my taxes. I suspected I had messed up when at the end I was due a 2 million dollar refund.
Wow! Gee, I recently went through a spell where nearly all of my germination attempts were failing. Someone suggested that chemicals or other contaminants in the towels could be the cause. (I buy my towels from Costco. And at the time, the most recent pack that I bought contained 15 rolls that were not individually wrapped. I remember complaining to the Mrs. about it when I first opened the pack. That was the first time I had gotten "naked" paper towels in the pack.)
Anyway, I removed the paper towel step from the process and instead, went from a 24 hour soak directly into rooting plugs. Voila! Germination issues over and done with! True story.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
To simplify everything Keff is dropping, think of that bacteria this way.... It's to the seed as Mother's Milk is to us. Don't spill the milk.
Used soil sets the perfect environment for that Mothers Milk to do it's job, which is to get things set up for myco to run, in 10 days or less.
New soil can slow the process.
That seed needs either the soil to feed it, or us with synthetics, in 10 days or less, or the nutes that came in the seed and cotyledons will be gone.
Quite often, using direct sow into used soil, at harvest the healthy cotyledons are still on the plant. The plant never needed to rob them.
If your solo cup gets innoculated properly, then when you uppot, the roots growing into the uppot bring that properly innoculated rhizosphere with them.
If your solo never got properly innoculated, then the plant can't spread proper innoculation, and the grow may never be stellar.
So if you pop seeds in paper towel, cut the seed from the towel and plant a small piece of towel from the germination site with the seed, but direct sow is still better. You will get to high brix quicker.
So now there's the seed soak. Some soak for 12-24 hours. If that water has H2O2 or chlorine in it, the microbes on the outside of the seed are sterilized, and if it cracks then you spoil the milk.
If the water is pure, and you insist on soaking, then paper towelling, then planting, only use a small amount of water for the soak, like a tablespoon max, then use that water to soak a small bit of paper towel, like dime sized, put your seed in that paper towel, and when it pops plant it all with the towel bit around the tap root.
Take the Mothers Milk with you.
But direct sow in organics is still better when it comes to overall plant health on average.
My preferred way is direct sow into final containers, and put your effort into proper watering instead of uppotting.
And as an added bonus tip, if you use good used soil for planting clones, innoculation makes for way better transition upon 1st planting.
A good example is the cloning tutorial in my signature. Used soil was mixed into that pot. Probably at least 20%, but likely 1/3 used, 1/3 new, and 1/3 EWC, then perlite and coco added to get the consistency I like.
That clone grew the 1st day it was potted, and every day thereafter.
Yep. A lot of growers, gardeners, farmers, etc. knew that these methods worked since antiquity, and had an idea of what was going on, but the science and data wasn’t there. It’s not satisfying enough for me that it works. I want to know exactly why it works and how can we manage it better. You can imagine how annoying I can be
It changed my entire perspective on how the universe, and life works.
smokesbetter
Well-Known Member
Well that got my 9th grade ed. cooking ! Thanks for the info I got alot of it and understand what I need to know .
Gee, what's your opinion on scarification, yeah or nay?
JiggiLotus
Well-Known Member
Wait, scarification? On plants? Or body modifying? Eew...I guess scars can be sexy, they can serve as a learning experience and show a time of emergency. An done right it can be cool body art. Seems a bit painful and excessive tbh.Gee, what's your opinion on scarification, yeah or nay?
lol he’s referring to scratching the seeds. I don’t remember the logic behind it but I wouldn’t do it. You’re scraping microbes off in the process.
Like I said previously, if a plant struggles to get out of its seed, it’s not meant to bloom. That’s one of natures ways of killing the line. Now if you have some old special seed you were really trying to get it to go, maybe, if you have multiple. However any time you mess with the seed, you run the risk of destroying microbes.
Scarification of seeds Jiggi!
Stay on topic, and pass me that thing you puffing on!