Stunger's Organic Soil Stealth Balcony: Landrace Mulanje & Other Sativas

Certified sticky! Still some white pistils on the Malawi hey? She may be the last to chop?
:thumb:
Cheers Dutch, both sativas are still throwing out white pistils, they should keep going for a few weeks after the MS. I am just hoping the weather stays supportive!
 
Is droughting an experiment you're testing out, or have yiu heard about this technique somewhere? Interesting.
I did an accidental drought many years ago. This grow with the Mango Sherbert I am trying to recreate a droughting.
Thanks Azi.
Wow beautiful sun set pic.... And they're looking great stunger. And congrats on the title looks good next to the others.
Thanks Hazmat!
 
Update - some cola top pics

Greetings 420 enthusiasts! Time marches on and so far the weather holds, here's a couple of pics of each plant.

Malawi/Ethiopian x Mulanje




Honduras/Panama x Purple Honduras



Mango Sherbert


Thanks for dropping in, keep well, and I hope your own gardening is going great. :ganjamon:
 
Is droughting an experiment you're testing out, or have yiu heard about this technique somewhere? Interesting.

Ah, yes, @Timhomegrow -- the technique. By now you will have absorbed the voluminous thread Azi posted the link to, where @Krissi1982 has moderated and fielded all sorts of questions. A fascinating thread.

@Stunger it would be of service to all if you could summarise how you see what you've done. You are an authority on this topic now. You've achieved more than just talking about this, you've done it, proved it works. And hopefully with great results and improved effect.

What insights have you gained and what lessons have you learned during all this? In a nutshell, maybe?

The "technique" isn't hard to grasp generally. The plant in late flowering is forced to put its energy into surviving by reproduction and intensifying its preparations for receiving pollen from somewhere. I suppose self-pollination is a favourable option from the plant's perspective, but you'll likely not see many of those S-1 seeds until after harvest.

So, the "technique." The plant gets just enough water -- the minimum needed -- to keep it alive. Since photosynthesis must continue, there is a line at some point that cannot be crossed and water must be given lest the whole plant would die from lack of water.

That is the extent of what I think I "know" about this technique. Not much.

But there are lots of questions. If lower leaves started dying massively, I guess the grower needs to decide whether those leaves are necessary for survival or are there enough leaves around the bud sites left to allow photosynthesis to continue and keep the plant alive. Defoliation makes for a "prettier plant" (not the goal, as you stated emphatically), and droughted plant does not look pretty. But like defoliation, droughting similarly steers the plant's towards using the sugar leaves for energy (photosynthesis) in its last days and weeks. Is it fair to say droughting is another way to "defoliate" or is that not correct? Of course, manual defoliation of yellowing leaves while giving ample water does not produce the same result or hoped-for effect, so the two are not the same.

I have not yet tried droughting, though I have over the years stopped watering the plants for the last two weeks. Mainly to jump start the drying process by reducing the water retained in the plant at harvest. But I always wanted to keep the plant as healthy as possible and without creating any undue stress. Your grow this year has put the theory into practice and makes droughting look like it's worth giving it a go.

Last year I may have accidentally droughted a plant, or at least partially droughted her. I returned from a month's vacation on October 1, having left all my plants with an ample water supply. The Mexican Sativa, however, was left in the warmest and sunniest corner of the grow zone, and she was yellowed, many of her leaves dried, bent over from the weight of bud. The effect was immensely narcotic, certainly the strongest weed from the grow. I concluded only that she was overripe and that I had misjudged the harvest window, expecting it later.

Here some shots of Mex-Sat retrieved from the gallery.





 
@Stunger it would be of service to all if you could summarise how you see what you've done. You are an authority on this topic now. You've achieved more than just talking about this, you've done it, proved it works. And hopefully with great results and improved effect.

What insights have you gained and what lessons have you learned during all this? In a nutshell, maybe?
Cheers Emeraldo. My only previous droughting was purely accidental, the plant in a small ceramic pot that heated up hot every sunny day with the plant wilting badly, and was repeated every not sunny day for all of summer. The resulting bud was really really sticky, we all talk about sticky, but this was beyond any sticky that I have since grown. And it's effect was noticeably potent, really appreciably potent, it was that noticeable! That was a dozen or more years ago, and only 2 years ago did I attempt to replicate it, but I stopped when I got a mite outbreak so never fully carried it out. However, I was intrigued that the potency seemed to be greater than last years crop which I didn't drought and instead nurtured so they looked all pristine and nice to the end. This year with the Mango Sherbert I saw my chance to carry out a droughting experiment on her, which is good because I grew a Mango Sherbert last year and now I should be able to make a comparison of whether by droughting it has raised the potency of not. Today is the 20th day of her droughting.

I have to give credit where credit is due. My original droughting was a pure fluke. But I always considered that was the reason that caused the plant to grow so potent. It was bag seed, and the bud it was found in was not outstanding but just average good. It was @Maritimer investigations who 'triggered' in me to look again at what happened to cause such potency in that original accidentally droughted plant. Since then I wanted to grow bigger plants so I never again grew a plant in that small ceramic pot. But his investigations caused me to reflect and look at what I could do with a bigger pot.
So, the "technique." The plant gets just enough water -- the minimum needed -- to keep it alive. Since photosynthesis must continue, there is a line at some point that cannot be crossed and water must be given lest the whole plant would die from lack of water.
The original droughting that was detailed in Dr Caplan's thesis, was to perform a 10 day droughting period towards the end of flowering, his was from week 7 but more sativa heavy plants it may be later, this was considered enough for the plant to trigger a droughting response that would increase the cannabinoids and thereby increase the potency.

The main thrust of droughting that I have taken is to stop watering until the plant wilts badly, then give it a rescue drink, and then let it wilt again and repeat. I stopped watering on the 20th March, so today is the 20th day of the Mango Sherbert's process. Depending on the 'look' of the plant I will probably harvest her in another 1-2 weeks, during which time I will continue letting her wilt and then 'rescue her' with a small watering and then let her wilt again, and so on.

I am not an indoor grower, so I cannot control the various factors in the same way as an indoor grower who can drought like Dr Caplan, who stopped watering after the 7th week and observe that when the LWA (leaf wilt angle) was reduced to be 50% of it's original angle they would then stop the droughting. But as @Maritimer has mentioned, that since Dr Caplan's initial thesis studies, he has achieved much greater potency increases of cannabinoids. How he has done this I don't know, but I imagine he has extended the droughting period to create more potency.
But there are lots of questions. If lower leaves started dying massively, I guess the grower needs to decide whether those leaves are necessary for survival or are there enough leaves around the bud sites left to allow photosynthesis to continue and keep the plant alive. Defoliation makes for a "prettier plant" (not the goal, as you stated emphatically), and droughted plant does not look pretty. But like defoliation, droughting similarly steers the plant's towards using the sugar leaves for energy (photosynthesis) in its last days and weeks. Is it fair to say droughting is another way to "defoliate" or is that not correct? Of course, manual defoliation of yellowing leaves while giving ample water does not produce the same result or hoped-for effect, so the two are not the same.
One thing that was pointed out to me from @DV8, was that plants under stress can get overwhelmed by infections when wounds are present especially when they get wet. I think that makes a lot of sense, and for that reason I have left on the lower drying leaves that the plant has 'sacrificed' on the plant. Ordinarily, I would remove them to give a 'nice pretty look', but I realised that even though a leaf is dead, the plant has already sealed off the dead tissue, it doesn't make sense to me to then make a bunch of fresh wounds by removing dead leaves, as I am doing this for potency, not prettiness! Because I am already putting enough stress on the plant so I have accordingly left the dead leaves one to avoid the risk of the plant becoming overwhelmed.

Dr Caplan's original research studies was over 10 days. Because I am already at double that, and I will most likely be at least triple that by harvest. So I am trying to be very careful that I don't over stress the plant to where she cannot fight back against pests/infection. Today she was wilting by midday and I wasn't going to be back until late evening, so I gave her a small 'rescue drink' just to get her close to comfortable again. My aim now is to continue the droughting until harvest, so I want to achieve this without causing her to be overwhelmed with mites or infection etc.
Last year I may have accidentally droughted a plant, or at least partially droughted her. I returned from a month's vacation on October 1, having left all my plants with an ample water supply. The Mexican Sativa, however, was left in the warmest and sunniest corner of the grow zone, and she was yellowed, many of her leaves dried, bent over from the weight of bud. The effect was immensely narcotic, certainly the strongest weed from the grow. I concluded only that she was overripe and that I had misjudged the harvest window, expecting it later.
It is interesting that your Mexican Sativa's appearance (to me) doesn't look so much different from normal. And I feel that when I look closely at my 3 plants, of which only one is being currently droughted that I don't really see much difference either, I took a bunch of trichome closeups yesterday and I can't really say that it looked to have any more trichomes that the 2 non droughted plants. However, I feel that there is more happening with potency than merely trichomes. My feeling is that the bud and sugar leaf tissues themselves generate and store more cannabinoids than only the trichomes. I really don't know to have any sort of authority on it, only that my accidentally droughted plant was the best one I have ever grown. My Mango Sherbert grow is my attempt this year to replicate that accident!
 
Very well explained Stunger.

As gardners, growers, we have to rely on the pioneering spirit, and the data where it exists. The rest, well thats up to us.

Small scale we have the ability, once established with sound traditional techniques, to run experiments. I say that in all senses of the term, accidental, documented, and on the fly.

Reading through the thread I have to applaud Stunger (one among many) to trust the process and document what results. Only then can we formulate the right questions and hypotheses, and go on to replicate technique and result. The point that cant be lost here is they are, experiments, variations.

Great questions and answers above, Im always heartened watching the dialogue and information sharing on this site.
 
It is interesting that your Mexican Sativa's appearance (to me) doesn't look so much different from normal. And I feel that when I look closely at my 3 plants, of which only one is being currently droughted that I don't really see much difference either, I took a bunch of trichome closeups yesterday and I can't really say that it looked to have any more trichomes that the 2 non droughted plants. However, I feel that there is more happening with potency than merely trichomes. My feeling is that the bud and sugar leaf tissues themselves generate and store more cannabinoids than only the trichomes. I really don't know to have any sort of authority on it, only that my accidentally droughted plant was the best one I have ever grown. My Mango Sherbert grow is my attempt this year to replicate that accident!
I agree. If after harvest you find increased potency, it could be because of changes in the tissues (other than trichomes) such as bud, sugar leaves, calyxes, etc. Hard to know. As @DV8 just mentioned, small scale growers like us can experiment to try and replicate your "accident" of 12 years ago, but we lack a disciplined scientific approach.

But more to your "accident." This year you did not include a couple of aspects of that accident, namely the small stone pot on the hot sun, which must have been a factor as well. And I imagine that plant was intensely root bound, and the heat on the roots is something you understandably did not want to replicate, trying to keep the plant basically happy in a large amount of soil while stressing her at the same time. Also your whole droughting process back then was not organised with frequent rescue drinks.

I am really looking forward to your upcoming smoke report (or vape or edible). Just from my own experience last year, I would be wary of overdoing it, depending on the type of effect you are looking for. Maybe it's just my imagination, but the effect might go extremely sedative if you're not carefully monitoring her. How are the pre-harvest samples?
 
As @DV8 just mentioned, small scale growers like us can experiment to try and replicate your "accident" of 12 years ago, but we lack a disciplined scientific approach.
In Caplan's study on this, he carried out a controlled grow whereby he could test against non droughted plants, he had to do this to make it scientifically acceptable as a thesis. But for me, it is more simple, just drought the plant in late flowering, give her a small rescue watering, and then continue repeating this cycle until harvest. If I was tent growing, I would most likely only do this over the plant's last 10 days of flowering, but because I am growing outdoors and I have no control over rainfall, I need to begin a bit earlier to cater for potential periods of rain, to allow myself enough 'drought time' to create a sufficient response in the plant. As it was, so far in 20 days there has only been 1 day of a little rain and it was not much, not enough to interrupt her droughting!
But more to your "accident." This year you did not include a couple of aspects of that accident, namely the small stone pot on the hot sun, which must have been a factor as well. And I imagine that plant was intensely root bound, and the heat on the roots is something you understandably did not want to replicate, trying to keep the plant basically happy in a large amount of soil while stressing her at the same time. Also your whole droughting process back then was not organised with frequent rescue drinks.
My original accidental droughting was something I didn't even recognise as being beneficial while the plant was growing. In fact, I did my best to water her every day, often twice a day, except for a period of 5 days when we went away and on my return I found her almost dead. But despite my best attempts, she would badly wilt every hot sunny day. And as I have mentioned before, the stone tiles of the balcony I have measured at over 50C or 122F on hot days! And at that time I only grew the one plant, so there were not multiple plants whose canopies could shade the tiles, so the stone tiles were heated up all around her and would have radiated a lot of heat back at her.

So, I actually did my best to water her every day except for that one 5 day period when I away. At the time I just wanted to get her to harvest so I would have some home grown bud to smoke. It was only when I smoked it, that I realised how potent it was, and then I reflected back on the grow to arrive at the idea of the heat, wind, and insufficient water had caused drought conditions that she'd been growing under and I assumed her potency was a side effect of her responding to the drought stress. When I came across @Maritimer's work, from him I realised that Dr Caplan had already proved this in his thesis, pretty much the same thing that I had clumsily and ignorantly fallen across.

That might have remained just a quirky bud story that I never returned to, had I not come across Maritimer's excellent investigations, and when @Krissi1982 started up her droughting journal, well that did it for me, I knew at that point that I would purposefully try to drought at least one plant this grow!
am really looking forward to your upcoming smoke report (or vape or edible). Just from my own experience last year, I would be wary of overdoing it, depending on the type of effect you are looking for. Maybe it's just my imagination, but the effect might go extremely sedative if you're not carefully monitoring her. How are the pre-harvest samples?
Yes that is the real test, actually trying the bud. Dr Caplan of course had to be scientific, so his results were simply reduced to the percentages of the main cannabinoids compared to the control plants. But as we know or suspect, that there is an 'entourage effect' that makes those percentages alone insufficient to explain the effect of a plant's buds. But in a fantastic but limited way they indicate a response by the plant to drought conditions which happen to effect potency.

I can only go by that one grow a dozen years ago, but I can say, that I never thought of it as being sedative, it simply had a very noticeable and much appreciated potency that my usual bud lacked. I recall harvesting it somewhere around 15% amber, I remember that amongst the amber there were a small number of dark amber trichomes too but most were still cloudy. Who knows, this time I may find myself describing it as 'sedative', but I didn't have that impression a dozen years ago. The impression I had was that it was simply stonkingly potent.

The only 'pre-harvest' sample of my current Mango Sherbert was taken 7 days into her droughting when she showed her first bad wilting, at the time I thought the sample was 'good' and 'very good' but not what I would call 'above and beyond, potent'. However, if I can keep her surviving for another 10-20 days then I would be surprised if she wasn't at least a little bit special.

As an aside, today I noticed on a couple of stems of the Mango Sherbert had bracts that appeared to be swollen with seeds from the selective pollination that I carried out on her a month ago with the Mulanje's pollen. I am rapt about that, as she was my last seed and I love the idea of getting some seeds of her crossed with Mulanje.
 
Last year I may have accidentally droughted a plant, or at least partially droughted her. I returned from a month's vacation on October 1, having left all my plants with an ample water supply. The Mexican Sativa, however, was left in the warmest and sunniest corner of the grow zone, and she was yellowed, many of her leaves dried, bent over from the weight of bud. The effect was immensely narcotic, certainly the strongest weed from the grow. I concluded only that she was overripe and that I had misjudged the harvest window, expecting it later.

Here some shots of Mex-Sat retrieved from the gallery.
I'd guess that is exactly what happened, the Mexican Sativa responded to inadvertent drought stimulus and became more potent. Funny, they don't visually scream it out so there's more to it than trichomes. That sounds really nice though.
 
The only 'pre-harvest' sample of my current Mango Sherbert was taken 7 days into her droughting when she showed her first bad wilting, at the time I thought the sample was 'good' and 'very good' but not what I would call 'above and beyond, potent'. However, if I can keep her surviving for another 10-20 days then I would be surprised if she wasn't at least a little bit special.

As an aside, today I noticed on a couple of stems of the Mango Sherbert had bracts that appeared to be swollen with seeds from the selective pollination that I carried out on her a month ago with the Mulanje's pollen. I am rapt about that, as she was my last seed and I love the idea of getting some seeds of her crossed with Mulanje.
Haha, I'll be surprised if she's not somehow special too. A propos seeds, don't you think this drought stress will cause her to self-pollinate? I see you know and remember which branches were pollinated with Mulanje. But seeds located in other parts of the plant would possibly be pure MS. Glad you'll get some Mulanje x Mango Sherbet in any event!
 
I'd guess that is exactly what happened, the Mexican Sativa responded to inadvertent drought stimulus and became more potent. Funny, they don't visually scream it out so there's more to it than trichomes. That sounds really nice though.

Another happy "accidental droughting" , and I didn't even think of that when it happened! It's very, even extremely relaxing and sedative. Great for sleep. Not really for being awake, e.g., I cannot even focus on a tv program.
 
Another happy "accidental droughting" , and I didn't even think of that when it happened! It's very, even extremely relaxing and sedative. Great for sleep. Not really for being awake, e.g., I cannot even focus on a tv program.
Ahoy E,
At Maritimer's I have been in a chronic battle with crippling pain. There are no comfortable positions to stand, sit, or lay. I am a recovering opiate addict as well as a recovering alcoholic and cannot take anything for pain that actually helps. Except our cannameds. But like any drug the more we take, the more it will take in time.

Eventually my need for medication has driven me to almost complete concentrate consumption as one joint is a wasted effort. In the time it takes to smoke a joint I can have several dabs so it becomes a no brainer. The levels of tolerance continue to rise, and more concentrate is consumed.

Alas and to your point, without the meds I am in so much pain I can't focus, but with the meds I am so high I have a hard time focusing. But what would I rather have?

I am glad, and a bit jealous that there are folks out there who are not in the same boat. It would now be a welcome feeling to want to just catch a nice lite buzz. But for the folks like me who cannot even sleep without terrible pain waking me all night, I am always droughting for maximum couch lock results.

Stay sober :love:
 
I'd guess that is exactly what happened, the Mexican Sativa responded to inadvertent drought stimulus and became more potent. Funny, they don't visually scream it out so there's more to it than trichomes. That sounds really nice though.
Stunger my brother,
It has yet to be elucidated, but there's is more to it than trichomes. :love:
 
Ahoy E,
At Maritimer's I have been in a chronic battle with crippling pain. There are no comfortable positions to stand, sit, or lay. I am a recovering opiate addict as well as a recovering alcoholic and cannot take anything for pain that actually helps. Except our cannameds. But like any drug the more we take, the more it will take in time.

Eventually my need for medication has driven me to almost complete concentrate consumption as one joint is a wasted effort. In the time it takes to smoke a joint I can have several dabs so it becomes a no brainer. The levels of tolerance continue to rise, and more concentrate is consumed.

Alas and to your point, without the meds I am in so much pain I can't focus, but with the meds I am so high I have a hard time focusing. But what would I rather have?

I am glad, and a bit jealous that there are folks out there who are not in the same boat. It would now be a welcome feeling to want to just catch a nice lite buzz. But for the folks like me who cannot even sleep without terrible pain waking me all night, I am always droughting for maximum couch lock results.

Stay sober :love:
Ahoy M, and thanks.

Am always sorry to hear about anyone's pain. No wonder you have become a respected advocate of droughting.

Like I said, am not sure if what happened to my one Mexican Sativa last year was what you'd call droughting, but it seems now, looking back, that that may be part of what happened. And yes, maximum couch lock is not what I look for at this point, but yes also, am happy that you have found medicine that helps you get through the night.

But more to the point here (on @Stunger 's grow journal where droughting has become a hot topic), are you of the opinion that droughting generally produces more couch lock? Is that generally what droughting produces? Or can you drought a plant in a way that will produce a more intense uplifting cerebral effect? What is the effect if the trichomes are mostly clear and cloudy after droughting?

Be well!

Emeraldo
:green_heart:
 
But more to the point here (on @Stunger 's grow journal where droughting has become a hot topic), are you of the opinion that droughting generally produces more couch lock? Is that generally what droughting produces? Or can you drought a plant in a way that will produce a more intense uplifting cerebral effect? What is the effect if the trichomes are mostly clear and cloudy after droughting?

You amaze me with fascinating ideas I get while talking with you. I am certainly of the opinion that a prolonged drought (longer the better to 11 days) in my peat/perlite substrate produces way more couch time. But now I realize (thanks) that we may be able to find ways to get off the couch. I never really thought about it. I am thinking the strains I choose to garden are always the highest THC I can find and maybe that is where a happy medium can exist. If I run some less than the top tier thc strains, I will surely find the right levels for a happy lighter buzz. Say Northern Lights for example. But if you drought a GG#4 you can bet it will be hard not to find the nearest couch.
 
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