Sqwheels' Perpetual 2L Hempy + Moms

[sqwheels]

Sqwheels,

I noticed the purple. That could be heat stress. I've heat stressed some of mine in the past and they took on those same characteristics. Did that particular plant get close to the bulb? How close are your lights? What are your temps? Just something to consider.

Your garden looks great.

Hi 420fied,

I'm so happy to see you here...as busy as you've been I'm surprised you find the time. I've had connection troubles for a couple days...I'll have to get by and see if the new journal is up yet. Really excited for you!

Yes, if heat can cause purple...it's a distinct possibility that's the cause. This March has been the warmest on record for us in MI. and my room has been really warm...80+ for a few days in a row. and the night temps are high too, I know my exhaust fan didn't shut off in there 2 nights in a row...it ran the entire night, so that means it never got below 70. I don't think the plants are too close to the light...it's about 8-10" above them, and I can stick my arm in just under the glass and the only place it's really warm is directly under the bulb and I try not to position a plant in that hot spot.

Thanks for looking in on me...

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi OMM,

I think that's what we all strive for...perfection with our girls, unfortunately I fall short a lot! But I keep trying.

I've gone to giving just water, now til harvest... I think probably 10-15 days, I'll just keep watching her and do my best.

Your best is pretty damn good!

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hi Mr.K,

Sorry for the lag is response...I've been having connection problems for 2 days.

I understand that we "flush" for a couple of reasons...to correct a nute inbalance and at the end of growing to wash out any extras...that being said, I think it was in DocBuds journal I read to use a light nute solution for inbalances...so that's what I've been doing. When flushing at end of growing I just give plain H20 for several days (10-14) before harvest

I didn't know 'salts are nutes'...duh. Salt = build up of unused nutes and thus can become toxic...thanks for the visual--yes it helped. In that case it makes sense to use nutes in low doses to correct that problem, not just water.

The pH is still a ???...why would the pH be @ 7+ if I've been feeding in the 5.6-6.0 range all along? Does toxicicity cause a higher pH? How does that work?

The runoff #'s from flushing are listed a few posts back... the ppm of the first flush was @ 598, and fell with each successive flush using RO/tap @ 65, all the way down to 245, it was only after flushing with a gallon of water that I switched to a low nute solution and the runoff followed along with that...finishing at about the same ppm that I was flushing with ...but the pH never dropped below 6.6 even after running nearly 2 gallons thru her of 6.0. This doesn't make sense to me.

I may not completely get it still...but the info you give always helps to further my understanding

Sqwheels, you may not get it yet, but you're definately close!!!

Let me start by saying DocBud is definately a guru and I would certainly take his advice over mine.

I'm not sure what post you were reading but here's my understanding...

So, now we know nutes are salts that can build up in the medium over time. We also know that we do know WHICH salts (i.e. Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, etc.) are left and in which amounts - It all depends on what the plant is using.

We also know ANYTHING dissolved in water can effect the PH.

So, we don't know what's still in your medium, but the fact that it isn't properly "flushed" causes me to NOT be surprised that your starting and runoff solutions have a PH variance.

Finally, if you believe Isaac Newton and his Third Law of Thermodynamics )), molecules will move from areas of high concentrations to areas of low concentrations (maximum entropy).

So, this means that when you're flushing with nute solution, you are NOT removing all the built up salts in the medium. In fact, you may even be causing additional build-up. For example, if the nute solution has a higher concentration of Potassium than the meduim, you can expect the soution to raise the potassium levels of the medium. If the medium has a higher potassium level than the nute mixture, you should be able to reduce the potassium levels of the media with the nute flush, but never more than than the levels that are in your nute solution.

This is why I would suggest flushing with plain H2O or a flushing agent.

AFTER flushing, I would then follow-up with a light nute solution, but I would not use the nute solution to flush.

Does that get you the rest of the way there?

 

[Xlr8]

Not to add any confusion, but Dutch Master nutrients recommends that flushing with a 25% nutrient solution will remove more salts than plain water. They are (at least used to be) pretty adamant about that. Now as to why... Outta my league. (unless it's just to sell more nutes, but I don't think so in this case). I just flush with clearex now, myself when I flush, personally.

Not to disagree Mr Krip, because I really don't know. But, I've always found that interesting, and maybe there's something to it? Maybe just with their line?

 

[Mr. Krip]

Not to add any confusion, but Dutch Master nutrients recommends that flushing with a 25% nutrient solution will remove more salts than plain water. They are (at least used to be) pretty adamant about that. Now as to why... Outta my league. (unless it's just to sell more nutes, but I don't think so in this case). I just flush with clearex now, myself when I flush, personally.

There may very well be a good reason for it that I just don't understand.

Perhaps some low dose of nutes acts like a "solvent" to help "unbind" the built-up salts?

I just haven't heard of that, but as I mentioned, DocBud knows his stuff pretty well!

That being said, I don't understand how a nute solution can really "flush" the medium, unless Sir Isaac was wrong.

 

[OldMedMan]

I just have jump in here.

Sqwheels......X.....and Mr. Krip. What a great discussion on flushing.

Personally, I think Doc Bud is brilliant. His grows are his job...lucky him.

I like that when he puts together his soil, he thinks of it as FOOD for his girls.
Very few additives. We do it too, but by adding things to our soil. Doing that, we have to flush our girls. Things like Clearex help us to flush.

He is the reason I use OC+. He calls it the cheap way to do most of what of what he is doing. Hence, I don't flush and avoid that part of growing. My 2 best grows were when I used OC+. Of course keeping the rest of the growing environment has to be good too. Heat under control and so on.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Vapedogg223]

Just thought I would add my 2 cents here... I agree 420% with Mr. Krip...you would think for flushing you would want the lowest PPM possible to remove the most salts....Sir Isaac and all that! That cracked me up!...

But there must be a reason...off the top of my head, I know Cervantes' grow bible also recommends flushing with a dilute nutrient solution, but like many things in these types of books, he doesn't elaborate as to why.

I have three other "Grow Bibles", and I can't remember what they said on the topic...if I ever have some time, I'll have to go back and see...

I've also never known DocBud to offer unsound advice...

 

[420fied]

I've tried it several ways. I have flushed my plants for 14 days, 0 days, an everywhere in between. I rarely give them anything other than a light, 3 day flush at the end. I know opinions vary and I don't claim to be an expert, but my experience tells me that flushing isn't a necessity.

In these 2L Hempy pots, I don't notice any difference in the smoke of plants that have been flushed for 2 weeks and plants that haven't been flushed at all.

 

[420fied]

Hi 420fied,

I'm so happy to see you here...as busy as you've been I'm surprised you find the time. I've had connection troubles for a couple days...I'll have to get by and see if the new journal is up yet. Really excited for you!

Yes, if heat can cause purple...it's a distinct possibility that's the cause. This March has been the warmest on record for us in MI. and my room has been really warm...80+ for a few days in a row. and the night temps are high too, I know my exhaust fan didn't shut off in there 2 nights in a row...it ran the entire night, so that means it never got below 70. I don't think the plants are too close to the light...it's about 8-10" above them, and I can stick my arm in just under the glass and the only place it's really warm is directly under the bulb and I try not to position a plant in that hot spot.

Thanks for looking in on me...

Thank you!

Heat can certainly cause a purple hue. I'm pretty busy with the new space but I still try to keep up on things. I wish I had more time to browse these journals. I'm glad you're doing well!

 

[Xlr8]

I've tried it several ways. I have flushed my plants for 14 days, 0 days, an everywhere in between. I rarely give them anything other than a light, 3 day flush at the end. I know opinions vary and I don't claim to be an expert, but my experience tells me that flushing isn't a necessity.

In these 2L Hempy pots, I don't notice any difference in the smoke of plants that have been flushed for 2 weeks and plants that haven't been flushed at all.

I agree on this. For various reasons, I've had to harvest unflushed bud a couple of times, and I honestly can't say I notice much if any difference in the taste/quality of the bud. Where I do notice a difference is only in the trim leaves. And then, only if I were to smoke or vape them. The buds don't seem to be much affected by lack of flush in my experience. Having said that, I prefer to flush when I can -- in the never ending goal for "perfect" bud, but I don't see it as making a significant difference. I wouldn't cry over a lack of flush, put it that way.

 

[Xlr8]

Oh, and Sqwheels, this looks straight out of a magazine or perhaps my dreams?

Beautiful picture, and beautiful bud!

 

[sqwheels]

Your best is pretty damn good!

Hi OMM,

I'm trying

 

[Mr. Krip]

Not to add any confusion, but Dutch Master nutrients recommends that flushing with a 25% nutrient solution will remove more salts than plain water. They are (at least used to be) pretty adamant about that. Now as to why... Outta my league. (unless it's just to sell more nutes, but I don't think so in this case). I just flush with clearex now, myself when I flush, personally.

Not to disagree Mr Krip, because I really don't know. But, I've always found that interesting, and maybe there's something to it? Maybe just with their line?

Just thought I would add my 2 cents here... I agree 420% with Mr. Krip...you would think for flushing you would want the lowest PPM possible to remove the most salts....Sir Isaac and all that! That cracked me up!...

But there must be a reason...off the top of my head, I know Cervantes' grow bible also recommends flushing with a dilute nutrient solution, but like many things in these types of books, he doesn't elaborate as to why.

I have three other "Grow Bibles", and I can't remember what they said on the topic...if I ever have some time, I'll have to go back and see...

I've also never known DocBud to offer unsound advice...

I was re-reading our discussion on flushing and I THINK I know what's going on!

I could be wrong on this, but I believe the issue is that DocBud is a "Soil Guy" and I have read that you don't want to overflush in soil because you don't want to remove the vital nutrients out of the soil that can be difficult and take time to add back - especially with organic nutes that may not be immediately available to the plant.

But, in a perlite/vermiculite hempy, you don't have the same issues, especially when using non-organic nutes.

So, I don't know if it's correct, but I can at least "rationalize" how a soil grower may want to flush with light nutes to preserve the nutes in the soil.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi Mr.K,

This is great info..and very helpful. I love the way you articulate things so clearly. So I have to address a couple things within your response (in red)

Sqwheels, you may not get it yet, but you're definately close!!!

Thanks for the hand holding I really appreciate the extra effort

Let me start by saying DocBud is definately a guru and I would certainly take his advice over mine.

Just one of many here that I've learned from

I'm not sure what post you were reading but here's my understanding...

So, now we know nutes are salts that can build up in the medium over time. We also know that we do know WHICH salts (i.e. Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, etc.) are left and in which amounts - It all depends on what the plant is using.

We also know ANYTHING dissolved in water can effect the PH.

So, we don't know what's still in your medium, but the fact that it isn't properly "flushed" causes me to NOT be surprised that your starting and runoff solutions have a PH variance.

Finally, if you believe Isaac Newton and his Third Law of Thermodynamics )), molecules will move from areas of high concentrations to areas of low concentrations (maximum entropy).

So wouldn't this be the reason that using a low dose nute would be better? You end up moving the areas of high concentrations to the areas of low concentration...thus improving the overall balance?

So, this means that when you're flushing with nute solution, you are NOT removing all the built up salts in the medium. In fact, you may even be causing additional build-up. For example, if the nute solution has a higher concentration of Potassium than the meduim, you can expect the soution to raise the potassium levels of the medium. If the medium has a higher potassium level than the nute mixture, you should be able to reduce the potassium levels of the media with the nute flush, but never more than than the levels that are in your nute solution.

When I started flushing...I first used a gallon of RO/tap @ 64ppm, only after her runoff got down into the 200 range did I switch to a low dose nute mix (400's...seedling range) in order to readjust the mediums overall ppm. This was my original intention for flushing...I thought the purple may have been a lockout issue.

This is why I would suggest flushing with plain H2O or a flushing agent.

I'm not oblivious to your reasoning, and I don't want you to think I'm not getting it...I think I do, but for this particular circumstance I think the low dose was the right thing to do. If I could just find that post of DocBuds on the low dose flushing stuff...haha, right I have CRS disorder

AFTER flushing, I would then follow-up with a light nute solution, but I would not use the nute solution to flush.

This is basically what I did...RO/tap first...then low dose nutes

Does that get you the rest of the way there?

Yes...your input, as always is of great help.

 

[sqwheels]

Not to add any confusion, but Dutch Master nutrients recommends that flushing with a 25% nutrient solution will remove more salts than plain water. They are (at least used to be) pretty adamant about that. Now as to why... Outta my league. (unless it's just to sell more nutes, but I don't think so in this case). I just flush with clearex now, myself when I flush, personally.

Not to disagree Mr Krip, because I really don't know. But, I've always found that interesting, and maybe there's something to it? Maybe just with their line?

Hi X,

No confusion...well maybe a little but more info to consider, I'm still learning and as far as I'm concerned more input is more better

25% of what? What you've been feeding? So if I've been feeding 1000ppm then flush with 250? I never got to 1000 with this plant, I've read that higher isn't necessarily better, so with these last two batches I've run lower nutes. PE's highest was just under 900, the Wonder Woman I harvested last month was the same way.

Thanks for the confusion...

 

[sqwheels]

I just have jump in here.

Sqwheels......X.....and Mr. Krip. What a great discussion on flushing.

Personally, I think Doc Bud is brilliant. His grows are his job...lucky him.

I like that when he puts together his soil, he thinks of it as FOOD for his girls.
Very few additives. We do it too, but by adding things to our soil. Doing that, we have to flush our girls. Things like Clearex help us to flush.

He is the reason I use OC+. He calls it the cheap way to do most of what of what he is doing. Hence, I don't flush and avoid that part of growing. My 2 best grows were when I used OC+. Of course keeping the rest of the growing environment has to be good too. Heat under control and so on.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

Hi OMM,

Yep, he knows his stuff...I'm sure it was in his journals somewhere I read this stuff on flushing with low dose nutes, but I don't know if I could find it again.

I have OC+ but have never used it...I think because my tap has high concentrations of Ca already and I'm using a mix of RO and tap. If I go to straight RO I'm pretty sure I'll need to add some.

Thanks for looking in and giving your ideas on this topic

 

[sqwheels]

Just thought I would add my 2 cents here... I agree 420% with Mr. Krip...you would think for flushing you would want the lowest PPM possible to remove the most salts....Sir Isaac and all that! That cracked me up!...

But there must be a reason...off the top of my head, I know Cervantes' grow bible also recommends flushing with a dilute nutrient solution, but like many things in these types of books, he doesn't elaborate as to why.

I have three other "Grow Bibles", and I can't remember what they said on the topic...if I ever have some time, I'll have to go back and see...

I've also never known DocBud to offer unsound advice...

Hi Vape,

Yep cracked me up too.

I don't own any grow bibles...

I have and all it's wonderful members

 

[sqwheels]

Hi 420fied,

I've tried it several ways. I have flushed my plants for 14 days, 0 days, an everywhere in between. I rarely give them anything other than a light, 3 day flush at the end. I know opinions vary and I don't claim to be an expert, but my experience tells me that flushing isn't a necessity.

In these 2L Hempy pots, I don't notice any difference in the smoke of plants that have been flushed for 2 weeks and plants that haven't been flushed at all.

But you're referring to 'flush to harvest' flushing...right? I thought maybe I had a lockout issue and was trying to rebalance the medium mix.

This is good to know info...cause PE may be ready soon.

Thank you!

Heat can certainly cause a purple hue. I'm pretty busy with the new space but I still try to keep up on things. I wish I had more time to browse these journals. I'm glad you're doing well!

"...busy...more time..." Yep me too! I have to get by and see what you're doing now, it's been days now since I visited your journal. Maybe there's a new one by now, I don't know. Cya soon!

Yes, I'm doing well and so are the girls...thanks for looking

 

[sqwheels]

Oh, and Sqwheels, this looks straight out of a magazine or perhaps my dreams?

Beautiful picture, and beautiful bud!

Thanks X...high praise from someone I consider a great grower. I think she's beautiful

I appreciate the added info on preharvest flush/no flush...all helpful and good to know. PE looks really close

What's in clearex? Do you know?

 

[sqwheels]

Ok, I think I got everybody... Mr.K, OMM, Vape, X, 420fied, thanks for the great info and advice, if I've missed anybody...poke me, it was not intentional

Update coming...gotta upload pics