Sponsored Grow: KIND LED K5 XL1000 With Ace Seeds In High Brix Soil

[Mr. Krip]

Thats the way Mr Krip, always a work around.....
The problem there is it was overlooked in the software, shame, because looks an awesome light.

What I was thinking, internals of light has battery so why doesn't it keep time and turn light off and on at regularly scheduled times.

I'm a little slow Krip. Ha!

Thanks, Brother, but I don't really see this as a design issue - or, at least not one that's easily solved.

This is not to be "defensive" since I don't work for Kind and really want to give my honest impression of the light and not be mis-leading, but I am a "technical guy", so let's start here...

With any other light, you'd have to connect an external timer, so no difference here except you ALSO get all the functions of the built-in timer being able to control the individual spectrums.

From a "design" perspective, Kind triggers program changes when the clock hits a specific time. If the power is out, there is simply no "trigger" for the program change or way to set it.

If you wanted to trigger past program changes when power came back on, you'd first need a way to differentiate between a power outage and simply turning the light off (forced vs. unforced). Then, IF you could tell it was an outage, you'd need to go back and see how long the outage was for and what/when the last program change was set to occur, then trigger it.

I'm not saying it can't be done since I believe EVERYTHING can be done with enough time, effort & resources, but all that additional time, effort & resources add additional cost to the end product and additional costs to support.

Considering you can have the same sense of security you have with any other light in a power outage simply by connecting to an external timer, as you would with any other light, it really isn't a bad solution, IMHO.

 

[Lowrider72]

Totally agree, I think the advantages in spectrum manipulation far out weigh a glitch in timer function.
Im looking forward to seeing it kick arse.

 

[Reave]

Simple fix get a ups. I would if I had some extra cash. They are a good idea to protect your stuff anyway.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Simple fix get a ups. I would if I had some extra cash. They are a good idea to protect your stuff anyway.

UPS's are only good for a few minutes of uptime. Ideally, there's also a generator so the UPS would keep the equipment up long enough for either the generator to kick on, or to do a controlled shutdown.

 

[Graytail]

But ... why can't the panel keep time? How hard is it to have a clock in addition to a timer? Seems like a no-brainer. The panel has a clock, the timer runs off the clock, a battery backs up the clock. Who cares what any other clocks may or may not say? If the panel has a clock, you program the panel clock, which runs on a battery. If the power is on, it knows what time it is, and if the power is off, it knows what time it is.

 

[Reave]

UPS's are only good for a few minutes of uptime. Ideally, there's also a generator so the UPS would keep the equipment up long enough for either the generator to kick on, or to do a controlled shutdown.

Well most power outages don’t last that long. I mean if money is no object you can have ups that lasts a really long time. Guess it depends how much room you have for batteries. Generator that auto starts on power failure would be cool too. BIG dreams.

 

[Old Salt]

But ... why can't the panel keep time? How hard is it to have a clock in addition to a timer? Seems like a no-brainer. The panel has a clock, the timer runs off the clock, a battery backs up the clock. Who cares what any other clocks may or may not say? If the panel has a clock, you program the panel clock, which runs on a battery. If the power is on, it knows what time it is, and if the power is off, it knows what time it is.

I agree. It's very likely that all that would be required is a programming update. Are program updates possible in the field with this light? Detecting whether the light was turned off, or subjected to a power failure is immaterial. When the power is restored the light should scan through the program to the current time, and activate the LEDs appropriately.

 

[Mr. Krip]

But ... why can't the panel keep time? How hard is it to have a clock in addition to a timer? Seems like a no-brainer. The panel has a clock, the timer runs off the clock, a battery backs up the clock. Who cares what any other clocks may or may not say? If the panel has a clock, you program the panel clock, which runs on a battery. If the power is on, it knows what time it is, and if the power is off, it knows what time it is.

I agree. It's very likely that all that would be required is a programming update. Are program updates possible in the field with this light? Detecting whether the light was turned off, or subjected to a power failure is immaterial. When the power is restored the light should scan through the program to the current time, and activate the LEDs appropriately.

There is a clock (sorry if I used "timer" instead of clock! ). But, the clock is triggering program changes not keeping a schedule. So, for example, it doesn't know what the settings should be at 2:27pm. It only knows at what times to trigger a program change. I agree all it would take is a programming update, I'm just suggesting it's a pretty significant change in the methodology of their existing program.

One of the suggestions I made to Kind was to allow the user to select when to start the auto-run function instead of having it always start at 4pm. THIS should be an easy change, since it uses all of their existing programming and they just need to add the ability to select a start time.

I think it would not be as simple to do what you guys are asking since I believe it would involve essentially scrapping all of their existing programming and having to re-write from scratch.

As I said:

I'm not saying it can't be done since I believe EVERYTHING can be done with enough time, effort & resources, but all that additional time, effort & resources add additional cost to the end product and additional costs to support.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Well most power outages don’t last that long. I mean if money is no object you can have ups that lasts a really long time. Guess it depends how much room you have for batteries. Generator that auto starts on power failure would be cool too. BIG dreams.

UPS is still great protection for brown-outs!

 

[Duggan]

Yes, being a long time sparky,..i can tell you that a set up like that is very expensive as it involves a fair amount of labor and buying a transfer switch and all related hardware to make it all work properly....not to mention a proper generator for it too.

 

[weenmeoff]

Thanks guys, so I'm not crazy! I bet this upgrade would sell a lot of lights......just saying Krip, I mean Kind, ha! your upgrade suggestion for user to be able to set start time should be first. If I'm reading that correct, you can't choose 'lights on' time which varries from grower to grower depending on their schedule.

IF Kind was able to have the internal clock turn the light back on after a 4 hour outage at the actual time instead of 4 hours later, could that cause problems with plants not getting enough light and start the flowering hormones. Isn't lights on time most important?

One more thing, when you say mechanical timer, does that not require electricity? I have the old school timers with the little red and green tabs you put in for settings but that requires electricity to keep moving, no?

 

[Duggan]

Yup...by mechanical ..he means just like that one u described with the lil push pull pins. same as i use and have ALWAYS used and trusted without ONE failure over 30 years....

 

[Mr. Krip]

If I'm reading that correct, you can't choose lights on time which varries from grower to grower depending on their schedule.

This is correct for the AUTO-RUN function. That pre-programmed schedule I posted is "hard coded" to start at 4pm. The only way to change this currently is to mis-set the clock. Manually, you can set ANY time to start the day - just not with the AUTO-RUN

IF Kind was able to have the internal clock turn the light back on after a 4 hour outage at the actual time, could that cause problems with plants not getting enough light and start the flowering hormones. Isn't lights on time most important?

Technically, I think light-off time is most important since that's what triggers the flowering and it's a real issue, IMHO, if plants are in flower and, due to a short power outage just before lights-out, you end up with an extra 24 hours of light; so it seems like using the manual timer as "insurance" is good practice and I am going to add this to my setup.

but that requires electricity to keep moving, no?

Yeah, but you don't lose all your programming if/when the battery dies, as you do with the digital timers. You just need to reset the wheel and, even if you don't, you'll still be on a proper schedule.

 

[weenmeoff]

When power goes out, do they keep spinning? I don't think so but am trying yo understand. The problem with those, mine at least arent 3 prong. I use the kind where you push in or out tabs for on off time which is a pain because you have to be careful around them so as to not push one you don't want pushed.

I bet you @Gazoo is gonna buy one of these lights, ha!

 

[weenmeoff]

Thanks Krip! The auto run issue is a non issue at least for me, why would I care if the time for my light is not synched to actual time? I wouldn't. It's actually often off anyways, at least by an hour guy to daylight savings time. I know exactly when my lights go on and off, to the minute because I check on them so much.

 

[Mr. Krip]

When power goes out, do they keep spinning? I don't think so but am trying yo understand. The problem with those, mine at least arent 3 prong. I use the kind where you push in or out tabs for on off time which is a pain because you have to be careful around them so as to not push one you don't want pushed.

I bet you @Gazoo is gonna buy one of these lights, ha!

The do not keep spinning in a power outage but the push pins retain the proper schedule. It just throws the time off which can be reset simply by spinning the wheel.

The digital timers use a AAA battery to store the schedule and time. It will retain these settings in a power outage, including the time, BUT if/when that AAA battery dies, the timer stops working entirely, even if power is on!

 

[Duggan]

Talkin about Gazoo...anyone seen , or heard from him....I miss him around here!

 

[MrSauga]

BUT if/when that AAA battery dies, the timer stops working entirely, even if power is on!

I did not know that! I'll have to test mine, and if they fall in that group then out the door they go. The only issue I had with the pin type is I kept hitting the wheel by mistake which turned the time setting. It took me a couple of times to figure out what I was doing, but soon moved it so it didn't happen again.

 

[weenmeoff]

Yeah, Sauga, I've done that before too!They should make covers for them. Have these timer manufacturers ever used one!?!?

I will never buy a digital timer!

 

[Old Salt]

Yes, being a long time sparky,..i can tell you that a set up like that is very expensive as it involves a fair amount of labor and buying a transfer switch and all related hardware to make it all work properly....not to mention a proper generator for it too.

Heh, heh... A 5KW Diesel generator keeps my house going when the power goes out. I have to connect it every time, but that's no problem. To connect (get ready to cringe) turn off the mains, turn off the drier, connect the genset to the drier outlet (I made an adapter) start the genset, turn the breaker on at the genset, turn the breaker on for the dryer. There! The whole house has power available, just don't use the stove and there's plenty. (The furnace doubles as my hot water heater.)

Yup...by mechanical ..he means just like that one u described with the lil push pull pins. same as i use and have ALWAYS used and trusted without ONE failure over 30 years....

They last that long? Mine always went within five years. The pins wore out. I like the Woods digital timers. They keep time during a power failure, and the ones I've had for 15 years are still working. Some of the other digital ones are not so good. One failed within a year. To each their own. As long as you're happy that's all that counts.