Speyedr's White Widow Deep Water Culture SCROG, House & Garden Nutes - 1st Grow EVER!

im no expert but Rose always said if you top, you add back the water lost and if you have a ppm meter and you keep records of how much she ate, then add back what was lost. But like i said, im no expert but take it for what its worth.
 
I call it my water time each day, depending on how much they drink a day like mine are drinking a gallon a day almost now as I am almost done with flower so I have around say 6 gallons in the 8 gallon res when it is full so I put 1/6 the nutes in with the water I am replenishing, this keeps the nutes at a higher level along with fresh water that was "eaten" by the plants! Idea was taken from Roseman's tutorial, also has pics there if needed...

SG
 
miller162 said:
? i just said that same thing....
Click to expand...

woah wtf, I honestly dont remember you post being there lol, I just saw the question and started writing, guess you got there before I did! Took me a little bit to write since I was at work that have been when you posted. Either way sry wasnt trying to copy or anything.

SG
 
You both posted right around the same time, and both good answers.

I hear ya SG about work. Typing on the cell is no picnic for an old fart like me :)

The main issue with my nutes is that they have to be mixed properly in advance. I have to add part A, mix well and let it sit for at least an hour but I usually do 2 or 3. Then add B, mix well and let that sit. Then pH the water and add the additives.

I figured that using plain pH'd RO wasn't cutting it. My 'Rockstar' is turning a bit yellow and crispy with all the signs of deficiency. The buds still look great, and 'new' leaves on the buds are green, but the fan leaves are hurting.

I plan to mix up a batch of base nutes only at about 1/6 strength and then use that during the week to replenish. I have a top-off system from my aquarium days so I plan to use that to help automate it. Does that sound sound to everyone?
 
Replacing the nutes proportionally is a pretty good strategy. That's exactly what I did my first grow. However my second grow I let the nute level work it's way down as the week progressed between res changes. I monitored th nute uptake closely and determined the daily consumption. I never let it drop too far, but I never went higher than about 500 ppm during the last month with none used at all during the last two weeks. I used Liquid Carbo Load during the entire flower period.

I've heard comments from people about the harsh nute taste in hydro grows. Most hydro growers feel they have to pump the plants with nutes to get prodigious growth. I don't agree. As you can see from my last grow my buds did just fine, and my nutes never exceeded 900 ppm at any time during the grow. And the buds smoke real smooth today after the cure, I could not be more pleased with the result.

I know I'm bucking a trend here and most will feel I'm simply wrong. But the results speak for themselves. I've done a lot of research into the subject, and all the commercial growers and university studies (including those not studying cannabis cultivation) agree that excessive levels of nutrients are mostly wasted and the time lost due to nute burn is costly.
 
Totally late update!!!

This is Week 6 and I got a bunch of pics this morning to share with y'all. The thing that strikes me most is the difference between the two plants. The Rockstar's leaves have become quite yellow and crispy while the Runt has stayed a lovely dark green. I'm hoping the Rockstar can keep going until at least week 9, but the plan is for 10. pH has been steady. Temps are about 70f night and 78f day. Rel Hum is under 40%. Any thoughts are appreciated...

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FEEDING IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PPM METER.
You will daily add one gallon of pH water TO REPLACE THE ONE GALLON MISSING. (Or 1/2 gallon daily earlier in the grow, clsoe to the 3rd or 4th week) If the water in the tank tests a pH of 7.0 (too high for example) and you know you want it lower, make one gallon of 5.0 water, and it will make the tank about 6.0 or in that neighborhood. ALSO, in that one gallon of water added daily, add 1/6 packet or dose of new nutes. One gallon or 1/6 of the tank was drank or absorbed, so you need to replace 1 gallon of water and 1/6 of the nutes.

Or in other words, if they drank 1/6 of the tank's water, they ate 1/6 of the nutes, so you need to replace that 1/6 that was consumed.
IF the grow area is VERY HOT, add back a little less than 1/6 nutes, the plant is just drinking and needing lots of water.
If the grow room is cool, or NOT VERY HOT, use the full 1/6 dose.
 
Weekly Drain and Replinish

Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir (replacing the water the gilrs drank)


To address this, I am going to post it twice to be sure I explain it. You will need to read both explanations.

After the nutes are added to the tank and the pH is balanced, the plants start eating, consuming the food. Logically, the larger the tank, the more water there is, and the more nutes you need. Logically, the larger the plants, the more they will eat from the tank. Logically, the more plants that are in the tank, the more they will eat. And logically, the more they eat, the more nutes that you need in the tank. The amount of nutes provided is in relationship to the amount of water, NOT the amount of plants. It is the Ratio or Proportion in the water that is important. The amount of nutes added to the tank are measured by we commonly call a PPM Meter, PPM meaning parts per million.

The Instructions on the nutrients contain the proper amount of nutes to add to the water, usually determined by "per gallon", and not by "per plant" or "size of plants". In the beginning, we start with 1/4 dose of nutrients, because a full dose is meant for full grown plants. If we use a ppm meter, we seek a ppm of 150 to 250 ppms above the ppm of the water, on average for small young sprouts, it varies from nutrient to nutrient. As the plants grow, we then slowly and gradually increase the nutrients fed to them, and consequently we increase the ppm. By the time the plants are over a foot tall, we will be in the neighborhood of a ppm of 600, then 800 on up to 1200 ppm. Some growers risk even higher ppms, watching the leaves tips for yellowing, to know when to back off with feedings. And as we add more food, the plants grow and eat more, indicated by them also drinking more water. As a rule of thumb, we figure if they drank half of the water, they then must of ate half the food. That is close to being right, but not precisely. If the grow room was exceptionly HOT, they can drink more water without eating more food. And consequently, some days, they eat more, some days they eat less, regardless of the amount of the water missing.

As they eat, they do not eat all of the delivered nutes at the same rate, or same proportion, and that changes the pH and the ppm. It also changes what they call the RNC, or RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. That CHANGE is not easy to calculate or measure, like the ppm or pH is easy to measure.
When the nutrients are first introduced or added, the RNC is perfect, or properly proportioned. In other words, there are specific amounts or precise amounts of each needed nutrient. The exact amount of needed Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potash, also commonly called Potassium are present and available for food for the plants.

BUT, as the plants eat, they do not eat all of the nutrients in a perfect proportion or at a perfect rate or equal rate. Some days, they want what grows longer roots, some days, they want what makes more leaves. The plants actually nibble at some nutrients in the mix each day, and gobble down some others. Some of the nutrients are not hardly eaten at all, some are absorbed very quickly. This creates an IMBALANCE of the mix. If you add more water and nutes daily to replace the eaten nutes, (CALLED TOPPING OFF) the IMBALANCE INCREASES. If you only add plain water daily, again, Top It Off, you still get the imbalance. AND the nutes not eaten, or the nutes that are increased daily cause a build up of nutes, and that creates a BAD imbalance of the RNC.
When this happens, the water becomes TOXIC and unusable even tho the ppm meter says there is a proper amount of nutrients. The plants say I AM NOT HAPPY WITH THE BUFFET and like a spoiled child unhappy at the dinner table, they suddenly refuse to eat anything. This is called NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT. This happens even tho the ppm meter says there are plenty of parts per million of nutes in the water. The ppm meter does not indicate if the nutrients are balanced or at a toxic level. It just indicates there is plenty of food on the table.

THIS IS WHY WE MUST WEEKLY DUMP IT ALL AND START ALL OVER.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST DRAIN AND REPLENISH WEEKLY, regardless of whether we TOP OFF with plain water, or TOP OFF with water and a fractional dose of nutes.
Changing the water weekly maintains the proper RNC.
 
Same tune, different words.

Weekly Drain and Replinish

Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir


Daily Maintenance of the reservoir is mostly keeping the pH at the proper level, and keeping the same level of water in the tank as it is used or evaporates. It is also keeping the nutrient mix or nutrient solution at a proper level, a level that is NOT toxic or too strong.
In the day to day course of maintaining the tank two problems occur. Remember how we discussed ppm, parts per million? Then we discussed RNC, RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. Well, we also need to discuss TDS, Total Disolved Salts. (Some books say Total Disolved Solids, for some reason unknown to me) As the water evaporates or is consumed, the concentration of TDS becomes stronger, to the point of being Toxic. The TDS increase as the amount of water decreases. This creates the need to replenish the water, to replace the water, to "top off". As we replace that missing water, we create an IMBALANCE. Hydroponic grown plants eat what they need, as they need it, and they leave some nutes to build up and accumalate into a posionious or toxic level.
This creates the need to daily TOP IT OFF. (to put a cut on it) I have already discussed starting Feedings and Draining and Replenishing in this thread twice. It is simple enough, daily replace what you estimate is gone, consumed, eaten, and absorbed.

But weekly, you need to clear the buffet table and start all over with fresh foods. This gives the plant not only a well balanced buffet table to eat from, but also supplies it with FRESH Food that has not been altered by the plants being picky and choosey.


And, there is the Growth Spurt you will get during the Drain, as the roots get a 5 to 15 mintues air bath. It also gives you the opportunity to look for crimped air hoses, scrub the air stones clean and look for debris and trash in the tank that messes with the pH balance.

Also, as the water ages, undesirable harmful microbes appear and grow in the water. You also take the chance of insect larvae and algae appearing, and weekly draining the tank helps prevent those problems too.
__________________
 

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