Some Old Guy's Soil Grows

InTheShed said:
How long is it taking the autos to feel dry enough to water?
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Last week, Monday saturation to runoff and it was still moist at the very bottom Thursday. Friday I skipped feeding and just ran ph water and it's still wet-moist at the bottom.
As these weeks have gone by it gets more difficult to insert the probe to check it, I figured it was the rootball increasing in mass. The top of the soil is so tight with roots I can't insert my fingertips without ripping thru them. I cant say I know better because I don't know if they are root bound because I went straight to final container from sprouting instead of up potting them to larger containers as they grew. Being they are autos I lean towards the DFWT POV (dont fick with them lol) but I have seen many examples of great growers doing it (up potting).
Hey, I am so thankful for the interest and attention you've given to me just wanted to say in case I hadn't. Anyone following would do so much worse than to not learn from @InTheShed
 
SoGnotSOG321 said:
Last week, Monday saturation to runoff and it was still moist at the very bottom Thursday. Friday I skipped feeding and just ran ph water and it's still wet-moist at the bottom.
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Couple of things here. First is that MC is feed feed feed, never plain water. Second is if the bottom is wet then don't water the plants.
SoGnotSOG321 said:
As these weeks have gone by it gets more difficult to insert the probe to check it,
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Wait what? Please never ever use a probe to determine when to water. We have another grower here using one and facing yellowing drooping leaves as well.


I asked about how long it took the plants to dry to get a feeling if they were in a pot too big for their roots. That's a common reason that plants don't dry out quickly and end up with wet feet (wet bottoms). So I think there are few issues here.

First is that the way to determine when to water a plant is to lift it and see what it weighs compared to when it's just watered. It should feel really light, like it did when it was first transplanted and the soil was dry. If you can't lift it, then tipping one side will give you the same idea.

Second is if they are still sitting in trays, that will prevent airflow below the pot to help it dry evenly.

And the third relates to the size of the roots compared to the size of the pot. The reason for transplanting to the next size pot (rather than just to a big pot) is to prevent over watering, which is easy to do if there's a lot more soil than rootball. For autos (which we tend to put directly into their final homes), it's important not to saturate the entire soil. Just water around the original pot size plus 2 inches, and don't water more until you see good growth. Then water another couple of inches wider each time.

Plants in flower (autos or photos) don't show a lot of root growth during flower, though photos do more than autos. But any plant can get over watered if there is a lot more soil than roots.
 
None are sitting in the tray, the bags sit directly on a wire rack over the trays like you mentioned.
I bought a bathroom scale and weighed the pots at the beginning of this run. Dry, the weight was 15 lbs, saturated to runoff the weight went up to 22 to 24 pounds.
The entire rootball and soil shrink away from the bag and I can practically lift them out of the bags so I'm pretty sure it isnt over watering. I use the probe to follow the water table down, I was today years old first hearing it, none of the other plants are doing this and they get checked the same way. I can eliminate it and just go by weight..but
No the simplest solution is they stunted and never got back up and switching over to MC nutes with already enriched soil I am using gave them a good shock again..nothing wrong with MC its working nice on the photos and theres good green going back into the autos from straight water but the damage is done. I am ready for them to get done so I can check out the rootball.
I'll rinse it out real good, this was to see how well they look vs my technique on my previous grow. They were not glamorous at all in comparison to you guys that have it dialed in pretty good but they did not leave me without meds for myself and my wife. I'm soaking beans right now and they'll hit the dirt as soon they sprout on the paper towel on a plate, same strains but all FFOF. Here's the photos
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All the new growth is fantastic and the one I repotted into the ffof is blowing up. These all still have the twin plants in the pots but i switched to 12/12 today so they'll sex (pretty sure they are fem but have to be sure and I'm not cloning so no worries) out and I can cull one out of each.
 
@Buds Buddy I have this auto
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Been giving it MC at low 4 gram couple weeks and I started noticing this discoloration popping up in the lower old leaves. This plant has had no issues other than being stunted AF lol (solo cup grow went south and got root bound) but I remember you mentioned the light green showing up as a possibly to much MC. My light is about 12 inches away but she's pushing 90 days old this week. Maybe it's late fade but I noticed the leaves also turned down clawing where it was springy and full.
Going back thru my gallery I see exactly when this started..saturation with the MC (my eyes just rolled so far back) fml
 
No, when they get lighter green you increase the MC. If they get dark you decrease the MC. Listen to Shed. He's kind of a founder when it comes to MC. I still ask him questions after growing for 4 years. I feed MC a few days after my plant pops her head up & I use FFOF soil. Something to do with the nutes being chelated & the plant will only take up what it needs even in a nutrient enriched soil. I don't understand the science behind it totally but I believe shed does.
However, your plants look low on "N"; but I think it's a watering issue causing it to look that way because of clawed leaves. Roots are too wet to take up nutes properly. That's what the plant is showing me. I doubt my 5 gallon bags of dry FFOF even weighs 10 lbs. They feel lighter then that to me; but I never weighed them. But I will when 1 is dry just to see.
 
Buds Buddy said:
No, when they get lighter green you increase the MC. If they get dark you decrease the MC. Listen to Shed. He's kind of a founder when it comes to MC. I still ask him questions after growing for 4 years. I feed MC a few days after my plant pops her head up & I use FFOF soil. Something to do with the nutes being chelated & the plant will only take up what it needs even in a nutrient enriched soil. I don't understand the science behind it totally but I believe shed does.
However, your plants look low on "N"; but I think it's a watering issue causing it to look that way because of clawed leaves. Roots are too wet to take up nutes properly. That's what the plant is showing me. I doubt my 5 gallon bags of dry FFOF even weighs 10 lbs. They feel lighter then that to me; but I never weighed them. But I will when 1 is dry just to see.
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Straight out of the bag and a half inch from the top of the bag and just flattened down to level it out. I put in a gallon layer at a time.
 
I only just started using the MC recently about November 3rd that week before first plants got it and by the end of the next week they all had been MC'd
This isn't any major thing, when you include my bastardized soil mix. I mentioned how enriched it was (on the verge of being nuclear) back in the beginning of this journal. I consider them a lost cause being stunted like they are, nothing short of witch/wizard is fixing them lol
 
I'm going to leave that new bag sit a day and measure it again, the moisture meter says its dry between 1 and 2 right now, pretty dry. Tomorrow I will slow soak it as per the E full pot watering schedule. Weigh it and see where we start wet. This stuff drains pretty quick but I'll try to get a gallon to stay in it. I'll use a 10ml syringe to dribble it in there in case I went to fast.
 
Sounds like you have a good handle on the watering, so even though the plant sure looks like it, it must be something else (though do the bottoms feel damp even when the sides are shrinking away from the pot?).

I don't have any idea about what your hot soil might have done to them, but switching to MC mid-grow generally will have no effect on the plants, as I've done it and seen it done many times when the old nutes run out.
 
Buds Buddy said:
No, when they get lighter green you increase the MC. If they get dark you decrease the MC. Listen to Shed. He's kind of a founder when it comes to MC. I still ask him questions after growing for 4 years. I feed MC a few days after my plant pops her head up & I use FFOF soil. Something to do with the nutes being chelated & the plant will only take up what it needs even in a nutrient enriched soil. I don't understand the science behind it totally but I believe shed does.
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Thanks Buds! I wasn't one of the first here using MC but I might have been one of the early ones with a journal that gets a lot of hits. Anything you've heard regarding MC and chelation has no science to back it up. The only difference between MC and other nutes is the method of chelation, not the fact that one is chelated and the others aren't. And the only advantage to amino chelation vs EDTA chelation was well-described by farside here.

This is a summary, and keep in mind that the method of chelation has no effect on the pH of the nute water or the soil, and the chelated nutrients are a tiny fraction of the total nutes in any mix (if you don't believe me, add up the percentages from the label!):

"Traditionally EDTA has been used to Chelate the metal trace elements in fertilizers. It does its job quite well. The other type is Chelation with Amino Acids. Is this something new? No. Although you can find studies dating back to 2006 on Amino Acid Chelation, you haven’t really seen many products adopting it until 2015. So what is the difference? EDTA is a synthetic, non-biodegradable, product. It is considered a pollutant and can build up in animal and human tissue. Amino Acids are organic and biodegradable. They are not considered a pollutant to the environment and are more sustainable. In the 2006 study mentioned above, using rice crops as a test subject, the Amino Acid Chelated fertilizer produced 10% more yield. Amino Acid Chelation is more efficient than EDTA and supplies that plant with more of the trace minerals. Which type of Chelation does Mega Crop use? Amino Acid, whereas many of the other fertilizers are still using EDTA.

The low down on Chelation. It’s not a dirty word. You want your fertilizer Chelated. You want your trace minerals available over a wide pH range and available to your plant. The only valid argument against Chelation is that it was Chelated with EDTA and that it is a pollutant, non-biodegradable, and can build up in human tissue. Problem solved with Amino Acid Chelation."
 
The bottoms are dry after two full days 48hr, and using the gauge before would show just that last inch or so as moist-wet around 6. A day later it was closer to 3-4 dry-moist.
Weight wise it could lose a pound every twelve hours some days and less than a pound others. I'll stick with the weight and thanks again about sticking the gauge in there.
This soil mix is not as fluffy as FFOF and no perlite at all for any drainage aspect so the density is twice to three times what ffof is. The majority of it is peat but it suspends the compost and enriched garden MG soil, helps to hold in moisture that would normally run off or pool in one area by wicking back up when that bottom saturation is all that's left.
Ok I just caught lights on to check the synchronization of the lights (two timers) they were within 30 seconds of each other. I went ahead and checked the weight of the bag of new ffof and it is still above 15lbs just below 16lbs. and its dry. I will leave it alone until I get some sprouts from these soaked beans. I think I can put it bag and all in a plastic bag until then to keep more gnats from having a happy breeding grounds
 
Couple pics of the BB autos
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The LST I cropped last week has shifted gears and red pistols are showing hard against new white ones coming out
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The fim has only a few red hairs and still pushing white and stacking so thick. The buds are compact and denser than my white Widow grow but they are not so big from the stunting. They still have space for now but I've got seeds on the paper towel.
I soaked them, two of each Gelato auto and Bruce Banner auto. I didn't label them Fkn jars again so I dont know which is which but two of one had opened and one of the two others had popped so I have them plated since last night. I checked this morning and the 2 are poking taps. The second set the one is sticking a bit more and the other is the same..hasn't popped open either. Its wet and dark like the one that's opened up just sitting there at 75 degrees. I have a funny feeling I'm wasting Fkn time with these Gelato beans again. I just wasted 4 weeks trying to get 7 of them to sprout back in September. That's why I have the photo bag beans growing.
 
Oh update on the FFOF 5 gallon pot weight. Still over 15 pounds after sitting on the rack under lights for 2 days. I set it aside for now but we'll see what's what in a couple weeks after these new beans grow up a bit.
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In case anyone is guessing who my weed idol is I give you Ricky from the trailer park boys..I have lived in my car, after category 5 hurricane Michael destroyed my house in Panama City Florida
 
SoGnotSOG321 said:
Oh update on the FFOF 5 gallon pot weight. Still over 15 pounds after sitting on the rack under lights for 2 days. I set it aside for now but we'll see what's what in a couple weeks after these new beans grow up a bit.
DopeNCar_n.jpg

In case anyone is guessing who my weed idol is I give you Ricky from the trailer park boys..I have lived in my car, after category 5 hurricane Michael destroyed my house in Panama City Florida
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Dude...Michael was no joke! So sorry to hear about your home. That storm Ripped my favorite campground in half at St Joseph State park! (Next to Mexico Beach).
It's crazy how many there have been this year but the most we've received in S. FL is a weak trop storm
 
I'm not over that entirely, seeing the entire landscape around you torn to shreds. One side of a church is there, the north and east sides ripped off, flower arrangements still sitting in the vestibule..
 
I haven't decided whether hurricanes are scarier than earthquakes. So many more hurricanes but at least you get some warning... :hmmmm:

Congrats on the beans but sorry about the laggard. Have you tried taking it out for some additional scarification?
SoGnotSOG321 said:
Oh update on the FFOF 5 gallon pot weight. Still over 15 pounds after sitting on the rack under lights for 2 days.
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Is this the one with no plant in it?
 
yeah, I'll take hurricanes over earthquakes or tornadoes. You get some warning and in my part of the state all of the building codes were changed after hurricane Andrew in the early 90's. All concrete block and anything in the storm surge zone has to be built up (which looks hella funny next to an older house). Most of our powerlines are underground now too which helps. They never seem to make landfall during the day though, so it's always intense at night and you can't see what's happening, just 6 hours of house rattling wind and rain
 
Yes that bag has nothing growing in it atm.
As far as having advanced warning, Michael went from a tropical depression to a cat5 in less than 36 hours and hit Bay county less than 10 hours later. At 10:15 am when the outer bands hit the power went off..

I'm sorry I cant talk about this, I'm not sure I wont ever have panic attacks (is that what this is?) thinking
 
Here's something new
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Maybe it's a little better view
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Is it balls? The plant has those cliche male characteristics/traits. Grew up the fastest, branches are lanky and thin with spread out node spacing. The parts look like claws and I haven't really seen a single pair of hairs on it. Amazing to think a male could develop after 4 12/12 days, I only flipped them Sunday at 6pm. There should be a little more to these by tomorrow.
Theres another plant in the same pot, a bit smaller that looks the same way. The next few days will be fun right? LOL
 
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