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- #61
Glad you got that figured out -- and I want to go hydro...why?
It keeps your hands clean!
SOGgy Daze Ahead For Mr. Krip!
- Thread starter Mr. Krip
- Start date
It keeps your hands clean!
Nice Topping Mr. Krip. 
Going to be cola city. Nice pics as per usual......can't wait to see the new light!
Going to be cola city. Nice pics as per usual......can't wait to see the new light!
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- #63
UPDATE - TK ROOT DEVELOPMENT HIGHLY UNDERESTIMATED!!!
Just yesterday I was talking about how slow the root development has seemed as of late, even though I quickly was seeing sign of roots.
I showed this pic last night of the one with the most notable root development:
Well, I was checking the SAME clone just a few minutes ago to see if there was anything more noticable happening, and, at first, it didn't look like it. But, then I noticed some small white hairs just poking out of the bottom of the neoprene insert. So, I opened up the neoprene, and here's what I found:
Now, that's what I was waiting for!!!
But, I am a little concerned that some of those roots are looking a little brown. They may be starting to get root rot from "cooking" in the neoprene when the temps were a little high.
I still need to check the rest of the clones for similar development, since I've only checked the one which is not only the one with the most visible development, but also the longest stem.
Then, I need to address any signs of possible pythium, but the TK is working!
I'll get a more detailed update later.
Happy Harvests!
K
Just yesterday I was talking about how slow the root development has seemed as of late, even though I quickly was seeing sign of roots.
I showed this pic last night of the one with the most notable root development:
Well, I was checking the SAME clone just a few minutes ago to see if there was anything more noticable happening, and, at first, it didn't look like it. But, then I noticed some small white hairs just poking out of the bottom of the neoprene insert. So, I opened up the neoprene, and here's what I found:
Now, that's what I was waiting for!!!
But, I am a little concerned that some of those roots are looking a little brown. They may be starting to get root rot from "cooking" in the neoprene when the temps were a little high.
I still need to check the rest of the clones for similar development, since I've only checked the one which is not only the one with the most visible development, but also the longest stem.
Then, I need to address any signs of possible pythium, but the TK is working!
I'll get a more detailed update later.
Happy Harvests!
K
Root Spikes!
I see that a lot too in my T48 where you get roots growing in inside the collar, but I usually have them lower down too. Could be that the high temps killed those off and left the ones in the collar that didn't get as warm.
Good news either way!
P.S. The brown is probably the result of the high temps.
I see that a lot too in my T48 where you get roots growing in inside the collar, but I usually have them lower down too. Could be that the high temps killed those off and left the ones in the collar that didn't get as warm.
Good news either way!
P.S. The brown is probably the result of the high temps.
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- #65
Root Spikes!
I see that a lot too in my T48 where you get roots growing in inside the collar, but I usually have them lower down too. Could be that the high temps killed off those and left the ones in the collar that didn't get as warm.
Good news either!
There are several others with roots in the collar, too. The one pictured above is still the most developed. Only one other looked like it had some "funk" on the roots.
I didn't have much time, so I gave them a short bath in an H2O2 solution, but didn't trim anything (yet!), then added some more H2O2 and DM Zone to the res.
I also adjusted all the clones to sit as low in the inserts as possible so the maximum amount of roots were exposed below the inserts, but it still isn't much!
There are several others with roots in the collar, too. The one pictured above is still the most developed. Only one other looked like it had some "funk" on the roots.
I didn't have much time, so I gave them a short bath in an H2O2 solution, but didn't trim anything (yet!), then added some more H2O2 and DM Zone to the res.
I also adjusted all the clones to sit as low in the inserts as possible so the maximum amount of roots were exposed below the inserts, but it still isn't much!
Good job! I usually like to leave about 2-3 inches below the collar. Makes it easier to plant them when they are ready to come out. The other thing I wanted to suggest is to not let them go too far! I usually plant in soil when those root spikes are about 3 inches long. If you wait till there are a bunch of those little tendrils, there is more to get damaged when you transplant. You can refer to my journal and my T48 Start to Finish thread for photos.
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- #67
Good job! I usually like to leave about 2-3 inches below the collar. Makes it easier to plant them when they are ready to come out. The other thing I wanted to suggest is to not let them go too far! I usually plant in soil when those root spikes are about 3 inches long. If you wait till there are a bunch of those little tendrils, there is more to get damaged when you transplant. You can refer to my journal and my T48 Start to Finish thread for photos.
I hear ya' Goose, but the TK clones were the second set of six clones I had taken from the Bonsai mom in a 2 week period (12 total counting the six in hempys), so they were pretty short and many had less than 2"-3" of stem to work with.
I was gonna try to mimic 420fied who lets his clones develop in the cloner, then when he transplants to 2L's, goes right to 12/12, so I was gonna let them go a little longer, but I'd probably me more comfortable transplanting into hempys sooner, so I'm definately considering it!
I'm a big fan of cloner-to-bloom!
Sounds good! I've found that the root SPIKES are a lot stronger and thus can handle the transplant without any chance of breaking them off or bunching them up in the soil. I always sprinkle a little Coco on the roots before planting so they have a good coating around then, and then hold them in the air in the hole and use a kitchen spoon to shovel the soil into the hole and around the stem until it stands on its own.
I find that they show an immediate response to the soil and start growing pretty quickly. Oh! I always float them in a B1 solution as I am preparing the pot. Just let them float around in their collars like little palm trees on an island!
I find that they show an immediate response to the soil and start growing pretty quickly. Oh! I always float them in a B1 solution as I am preparing the pot. Just let them float around in their collars like little palm trees on an island!
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- #70
Sounds good! I've found that the root SPIKES are a lot stronger and thus can handle the transplant without any chance of breaking them off or bunching them up in the soil. I always sprinkle a little Coco on the roots before planting so they have a good coating around then, and then hold them in the air in the hole and use a kitchen spoon to shovel the soil into the hole and around the stem until it stands on its own.
I find that they show an immediate response to the soil and start growing pretty quickly. Oh! I always float them in a B1 solution as I am preparing the pot. Just let them float around in their collars like little palm trees on an island!
LOL! Yeah, I found those collars useful for floating them in the H2O2!
OG13
New Member
Mr K, you could try "trimming a cone" into the bottom of the insert so the stem has more length exposed to the spray. Just use a razor knife or sharp scissors. You won't need much support for a small clone, maybe 1/8 " of neoprene remaining?
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- #72
Yeah, that would work, but only give me probably another 1/4" or so of stem exposed. They're just short clones!
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- #73
PIC UPDATE
I changed things around just a little this morning. The temps in the TK res still seem to be creeping up. I put a couple ice cubes in the res to cool it back down and changed the timer to run 50 seconds on and five minutes off.
All seven of the hempy clones (and the Lucy seedling!) are looking great, and all are growing:
Here's the oldest PE clone that got the LST to try to make her into a better Bonsai mom than the one I have:
But, the existing Bonsai mom is actually looking pretty good. I'd still like to let her grow out some more, but there are some areas that I didn't think would grow that are starting to now:
Lucy is looking pretty good. She's about to get a UBT but I've been holding off a little to let her top get a little bigger so I can get the top cloned and add it to the next round of clones going into the SOG:
The Power Skunk that got UBT'd also got her two top colas topped yesterday. The new tops are starting to grow and the bottom colas are now catching up, so this plant SHOULD have two main colas and four secondary colas (6 tops) soon:
The Power Skunk top that got cloned is really looking healthy. I'm VERY happy I didn't toss her mom when she was having problems as a seedling!
And, here's what was in the TK before I transplanted three of them to hempys this morning:
And, here's the roots on two of the three that got transplanted:
So, that gives me 10 clones that are pretty much rooted, including (9) PE's and (1) PS. The new LED should be here tomorrow night, so, I'll probably wait just a couple more days and put the 10 current clones in for the first round. I'll be two plants short of the twelve I was really hoping for, but MORE than enough for a first SOG round!
On the next round, I'm hoping to have at least two PE's and one Lucy in the mix, too!
Happy Harvests!
K
I changed things around just a little this morning. The temps in the TK res still seem to be creeping up. I put a couple ice cubes in the res to cool it back down and changed the timer to run 50 seconds on and five minutes off.
All seven of the hempy clones (and the Lucy seedling!) are looking great, and all are growing:
Here's the oldest PE clone that got the LST to try to make her into a better Bonsai mom than the one I have:
But, the existing Bonsai mom is actually looking pretty good. I'd still like to let her grow out some more, but there are some areas that I didn't think would grow that are starting to now:
Lucy is looking pretty good. She's about to get a UBT but I've been holding off a little to let her top get a little bigger so I can get the top cloned and add it to the next round of clones going into the SOG:
The Power Skunk that got UBT'd also got her two top colas topped yesterday. The new tops are starting to grow and the bottom colas are now catching up, so this plant SHOULD have two main colas and four secondary colas (6 tops) soon:
The Power Skunk top that got cloned is really looking healthy. I'm VERY happy I didn't toss her mom when she was having problems as a seedling!
And, here's what was in the TK before I transplanted three of them to hempys this morning:
And, here's the roots on two of the three that got transplanted:
So, that gives me 10 clones that are pretty much rooted, including (9) PE's and (1) PS. The new LED should be here tomorrow night, so, I'll probably wait just a couple more days and put the 10 current clones in for the first round. I'll be two plants short of the twelve I was really hoping for, but MORE than enough for a first SOG round!
On the next round, I'm hoping to have at least two PE's and one Lucy in the mix, too!
Happy Harvests!
K
Ooo! Don't like seeing that black stem rot on those stems! Hopefully the plants can shake that off and continue rooting. Thats what happens when the temps get too high.
That is exactly how the 17 failed BC clones looked when I tossed them into the garbage can. They had no roots at all though, so at least yours still have a chance!
I would suggest cutting the black part off as much as possible and just leave the rooted section. Otherwise that rot is going to spread and kill the clone. Black stem rot is an insidious fungus.
That is exactly how the 17 failed BC clones looked when I tossed them into the garbage can. They had no roots at all though, so at least yours still have a chance!
I would suggest cutting the black part off as much as possible and just leave the rooted section. Otherwise that rot is going to spread and kill the clone. Black stem rot is an insidious fungus.
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- #75
Ooo! Don't like seeing that black stem rot on those stems! Hopefully the plants can shake that off and continue rooting. Thats what happens when the temps get too high.
That is exactly how the 17 failed BC clones looked when I tossed them into the garbage can. They had no roots at all though, so at least yours still have a chance!
I would suggest cutting the black part off as much as possible and just leave the rooted section. Otherwise that rot is going to spread and kill the clone. Black stem rot is an insidious fungus.
Yeah...I saw that, GG7, thanks!
I gave them a bath again in a strong H2O2 solution before transplanting, but did NOT cut off the black parts. You think I should pull 'em, cut if off, and re-plant 'em?
Hello mr Krip sorry to hear about your high temps happens to the best of use natural complications not easy to handle!
Question for you do you score up the stem of your clone or just cut her at an angle ?
I only usaly cut at an angle but have been told to scrap a blade up the stem to remove the epidermis wall to expose some of the cortex this can halve root time. I am yet to try this but will be on my next set of cuttings.
Question for you do you score up the stem of your clone or just cut her at an angle ?
I only usaly cut at an angle but have been told to scrap a blade up the stem to remove the epidermis wall to expose some of the cortex this can halve root time. I am yet to try this but will be on my next set of cuttings.
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- #77
Thanks, G-Speed! I do scrape the stems on the clones.
I don't think at this point it would be worth risking pulling them out. Just keep your fingers crossed that the rot doesn't spread. It should have a tougher time surviving in soil as opposed to the nutrient rich waters of the T24!
As far as controlling the temps of the cloner, a couple of suggestions...
Fill several personal sized drinking water bottles with water and freeze them. Then drop one of those in the reservoir to help lower the water temp. You don't want to be putting ice cubes in there cause it will dilute your cloning broth and also possibly change the pH! You're going to need more ice than that to do the job fast and effectively anyway.
Another thing I suggest is putting a mini box fan or some fan to the side of or directly under the cloner pointing up at the bottom of the unit and blowing air at it. This also helps to lower the internal water temp.
Did you get your Polder probe yet? Never heard if you picked up some of those suction cup clips I linked to. They make the best clamps to hold the probe in the water and the suction cups keep it firmly in place underwater. Mine always stay put through the entire session and never come loose.
As far as controlling the temps of the cloner, a couple of suggestions...
Fill several personal sized drinking water bottles with water and freeze them. Then drop one of those in the reservoir to help lower the water temp. You don't want to be putting ice cubes in there cause it will dilute your cloning broth and also possibly change the pH! You're going to need more ice than that to do the job fast and effectively anyway.
Another thing I suggest is putting a mini box fan or some fan to the side of or directly under the cloner pointing up at the bottom of the unit and blowing air at it. This also helps to lower the internal water temp.
Did you get your Polder probe yet? Never heard if you picked up some of those suction cup clips I linked to. They make the best clamps to hold the probe in the water and the suction cups keep it firmly in place underwater. Mine always stay put through the entire session and never come loose.
- Thread starter
- #79
I don't think at this point it would be worth risking pulling them out. Just keep your fingers crossed that the rot doesn't spread. It should have a tougher time surviving in soil as opposed to the nutrient rich waters of the T24!
As far as controlling the temps of the cloner, a couple of suggestions...
Fill several personal sized drinking water bottles with water and freeze them. Then drop one of those in the reservoir to help lower the water temp. You don't want to be putting ice cubes in there cause it will dilute your cloning broth and also possibly change the pH! You're going to need more ice than that to do the job fast and effectively anyway.
Another thing I suggest is putting a mini box fan or some fan to the side of or directly under the cloner pointing up at the bottom of the unit and blowing air at it. This also helps to lower the internal water temp.
Did you get your Polder probe yet? Never heard if you picked up some of those suction cup clips I linked to. They make the best clamps to hold the probe in the water and the suction cups keep it firmly in place underwater. Mine always stay put through the entire session and never come loose.
All good suggestions! Thanks!
I haven't picked up the temp probe yet, but I promise, I will! The probe will definately give me better insight as to what's happening, but it doesn't let me keep them cool, so right now, I'm still trying to find the right environment for the TK.
If I absolutely have to resort to frozen water bottles, I'll do that, but the truth is, if I'm gonna do that, I'd probably just root the clones in rockwool. I definately want it as maintenance free as possible, so I need to find the right place to put the TK, the right cycle times, and the right light schedule to make it work.
I did not have the fan running in the tent because tent temps have been staying cool, it's just the pump that's been heating up the res. But', I've now put that "tornado fan" I had on the floor right next to the res and have it blowing air on it, so hopefully that will help (thanks for that!).
And, I think my other biggest contributing factor to the heat buildup is that I've been running the lights 24/0. I'm pretty confident that if I cut the lights back to 18/6, it will be OK snce temps seemed OK before I went to bed last night, but by this morning, were back up.
The truth is, the point is almost moot, because the one thing I'm sure of is that I will NOT have the TK in the tent, most likely, for the rest of its life after Friday, or so.
With the new LED coming in tomorrow and the first batch of clones ready to go in, I'll need to either make it work in the cab, or find another home for it.
Being in the tropics where temps are always around 80* F doesn't help, since A/C is running most of the year, room temps never really get below 72*-75* F!
Yep!
The cloner needs to be moved to a solitary location free from all the heat of all of your other grow lights. And DEFINITELY 18/6! No need for 24/0. Wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference unless the clones were flowering and you needed to start revegging ASAP. Thats the only time I have ever done anything besides 18/6 with the TK.
When I'm running my cloner, all I use is a single 125 watt CFL fixture and do not have any plants under the 4x4 T5 that you have seen in use recently in that same closet. Can't have the 4x4 on when cloning. Just makes it too hot in there. Clones need very little light too. A double T5 tube fixture, or even a single tube would be all they really need.
As you have seen, it really isn't going to work for you leaving it in the tent with everything else. Just too hot.
Placing it on a metal equipment rack with good bottom ventilation will also make a big difference.
Remember that the water temp will always come up to around 4 degrees below the ambient room temperature where it is located and eventually equal it, so when placed in your tent in the high 70s or low 80s, you're hosed before you even start.
One thing I failed to consider also is that if the pump they supplied with that much smaller unit is the same one I have, it is definitely going to heat that small reservoir up a lot faster. What is the pump you got with it? Did it say in the manual? Just curious if they are using the same one. I think that would have been a big mistake on their part because of what you are running into with it.
The cloner needs to be moved to a solitary location free from all the heat of all of your other grow lights. And DEFINITELY 18/6! No need for 24/0. Wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference unless the clones were flowering and you needed to start revegging ASAP. Thats the only time I have ever done anything besides 18/6 with the TK.
When I'm running my cloner, all I use is a single 125 watt CFL fixture and do not have any plants under the 4x4 T5 that you have seen in use recently in that same closet. Can't have the 4x4 on when cloning. Just makes it too hot in there. Clones need very little light too. A double T5 tube fixture, or even a single tube would be all they really need.
As you have seen, it really isn't going to work for you leaving it in the tent with everything else. Just too hot.
Placing it on a metal equipment rack with good bottom ventilation will also make a big difference.
Remember that the water temp will always come up to around 4 degrees below the ambient room temperature where it is located and eventually equal it, so when placed in your tent in the high 70s or low 80s, you're hosed before you even start.
One thing I failed to consider also is that if the pump they supplied with that much smaller unit is the same one I have, it is definitely going to heat that small reservoir up a lot faster. What is the pump you got with it? Did it say in the manual? Just curious if they are using the same one. I think that would have been a big mistake on their part because of what you are running into with it.