New roots are coming in really well on the GG, and looking at the clawing it makes me wonder whether the root damage somehow created a greater uptake of N over other nutrients. 
Rex's Perpetual Hydroponics, LED, 4x4 Tent Using TBC 10 Gal System: All Are Welcome, Come Learn & Help
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- #662
That's how I'm looking at it. I can't see any other explanation for it, especially when the Wappa and Blackberry are OK with the N level.New roots are coming in really well on the GG, and looking at the clawing it makes me wonder whether the root damage somehow created a greater uptake of N over other nutrients.
N420
Well-Known Member
The roots are coming back nicely,all the brown is basically gone. Once you get you feed dialed in they will be off to the race’s.
Sorry realized I didn’t answer your question, I wasn’t entirely sure what was causing it but I chalked it up to my water temps being a bit to warm, I didn’t have a chiller so was at the mercy of the ambient temps in the tent.
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- #664
Thanks N420! I think (knock on wood), I came in at a good PPM. I gave them a feed tonight at 352 PPM, and they've perked up even more since I did the update
Oh that's all good N420, never any worries here. Yeah warm temps can be a rough one, I did it my first grow (flood and drain) and my res hit in the mid 20's ? Or so. Only way I rode it out was a bottle of h202 (29%).
Looks like you have some great smoke all the same, and I hope your right about them being off to the races!
Took a deeper look into kelp benefits. Most of the seaweeds and kelp works as a biostimulator (in recommended doses) But then if you overdo it - the easiest way would be foliar feed with some Kelp extracts/concentrates so cytokinin receptors ”gets full”. Don’t know if thats the exact science.
Been giving foliar feeds the last couple nights before TD lights go off. And feels like the stretching has already reduced.
Do you have your Cal/Mag ppm included in this?
You could lower the Ca ppm’s for a bit and couple of them looks hungry for K. As/if you lower your Cal/Mag dose it reduces the N ppm’s also - which could sort out the excess Nitrogen symptoms. (Tips slightly clawing)
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- #666
That is pretty cool, especially that it's working for you already. I think the root rot will have taken care of them being too big for the cabinet.
I refilled the system last night and did a change out. So far they seem to be liking it!
That N toxicity appears to have been a side effect of the root rot. Pretty strange, but there is not enough N to be causing it. So...I'm just going to ignore it for now, as she's healing and should grow out of it.
Reservoir as of last night was at 352PPM. And they perked up even more for the first while.
Interesting. It could be due the some micro nutrient synergism with Nitrogen(?)
I’ll send you a DM later as my mini TD roots got acified - res pH had dropped down to 4.1, and it was like that ~12h. Whole lot dead root tips and they having some ugly ass color right now. Smells like wet grass… So I thought we could compare and exchange som tips with each other without spamming your journo.
Hey there, Rex! 
I didn't realize you had this journal going, but found it now. I hope to be hopping in here from time to time to check out your beauties (to be). 
I didn't realize you had this journal going, but found it now. I hope to be hopping in here from time to time to check out your beauties (to be). - Thread starter
- #669
Day 21
Cabinet temp: 29C avg
Cabinet RH%: ~60%
Previous PPM: 352
Current PPM: 403
Adjusted PPM to: 403
PH: 6.1
Res temps: 19.6C
Water level: slight drop
So I've been slowly adding some black duct tape to fully light proof the system. I wish I had gone that route instead of painting. Cheaper, more effective, and easier. Well it would be easier if it wasn't already in the cabinet
. Anyhow- thanks Shed for the suggestion!!
Well, it looks like the root rot has been dealt with
. There is still a slight tinge of brown, however the brownish roots are surrounded by new white roots.
I have to admit, when I checked them this morning, I was pleasantly surprised with how much the roots have grown. Kinda nice to see them for a change, vs them usually buried in hydroton.
The Gorilla Glue will be topped very shortly (at 4th node).
The Wapa Auto, I'm kinda thinking might have gotten a bit stunted. She's growing- but is tiny for her age. Dunno, we'll see, but I'm sure I'll be able to squeeze some buds off her, and I can use the other two plants to fill the space.
The Blackberry Auto is growing nicely, and looks a bit hungry. I did a slight bump with FloraNova Grow last night (50PPM). I think the current "happy spot" for all three is just below 400 PPM right now.
First step is to get them all feeding, which appears to be happening now. Next will be to fine tune the nutrients, and then get them to really start growing.
I've had plants look worse at the start of a grow and finish strong, which is somewhat comforting.
Right now I've got three products in the reservoir to help the roots. Hygrozyme, Root Builder and Microbial Mass. They seem to play very nicely together.
Well that's all for this mornings update, thanks and hope everyone has a great weekend!
brother, your always welcome and don't feel the need to play catch up. Right now I'm just doing a small winter grow with a little system I threw together. It's more for fun and learning then anything else- springtime will see me ramp things up.
Cabinet temp: 29C avg
Cabinet RH%: ~60%
Previous PPM: 352
Current PPM: 403
Adjusted PPM to: 403
PH: 6.1
Res temps: 19.6C
Water level: slight drop
So I've been slowly adding some black duct tape to fully light proof the system. I wish I had gone that route instead of painting. Cheaper, more effective, and easier. Well it would be easier if it wasn't already in the cabinet
. Anyhow- thanks Shed for the suggestion!!Well, it looks like the root rot has been dealt with
. There is still a slight tinge of brown, however the brownish roots are surrounded by new white roots. I have to admit, when I checked them this morning, I was pleasantly surprised with how much the roots have grown. Kinda nice to see them for a change, vs them usually buried in hydroton.
The Gorilla Glue will be topped very shortly (at 4th node).
The Wapa Auto, I'm kinda thinking might have gotten a bit stunted
. She's growing- but is tiny for her age. Dunno, we'll see, but I'm sure I'll be able to squeeze some buds off her, and I can use the other two plants to fill the space. The Blackberry Auto is growing nicely, and looks a bit hungry. I did a slight bump with FloraNova Grow last night (50PPM). I think the current "happy spot" for all three is just below 400 PPM right now.
First step is to get them all feeding, which appears to be happening now. Next will be to fine tune the nutrients, and then get them to really start growing.
I've had plants look worse at the start of a grow and finish strong, which is somewhat comforting.
Right now I've got three products in the reservoir to help the roots. Hygrozyme, Root Builder and Microbial Mass. They seem to play very nicely together.
Well that's all for this mornings update, thanks and hope everyone has a great weekend!
I really couldn't tell you, I find it interesting, but it's beyond me. Either way the Gorilla Glue will have to deal with it
Ouch, that hurts. Your always welcome to DM me, but don't be shy to post pics or questions here either (whichever your most comfortable with).
Hey Beez!!! You found my perpetual!Hey there, Rex!
brother, your always welcome and don't feel the need to play catch up. Right now I'm just doing a small winter grow with a little system I threw together. It's more for fun and learning then anything else- springtime will see me ramp things up.
Rex,
Can I be the one to ask and not sound stupid but-what happens in this system that causes the root rot issues and how are these normally avoided and what can't be avoided? Is it more common to see this issue early on in this type of grow-like here in seedling, rather than when the root system is more developed? Is it more controllable like it is in soil once the plant gets older? I can just see how this could be an issue since it's sitting in water. As you know, I am clueless to any of this so I'm sorry for sounding like a kindergarten child in what is probably a simple answer to a simple question
Can I be the one to ask and not sound stupid but-what happens in this system that causes the root rot issues and how are these normally avoided and what can't be avoided? Is it more common to see this issue early on in this type of grow-like here in seedling, rather than when the root system is more developed? Is it more controllable like it is in soil once the plant gets older? I can just see how this could be an issue since it's sitting in water. As you know, I am clueless to any of this so I'm sorry for sounding like a kindergarten child in what is probably a simple answer to a simple question
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- #671
no such thing in this journal Krissi, questions are encouraged! That's the only way we learn
. I'm going to break things down (so I don't miss anything).That's a great question Krissi! There are the common causes, and the rarer but plausible causes.
The common causes are:
higher reservoir temperatures creating a zone for bacteria and viruses to thrive, or just nasties. Best way to overcome that is with a chiller (its like a fridge for your nutrients, that a pump runs it through).
Light leaks. This is the a very common cause, and what I believe caused mine. The only way is to black everything out. Any other color allows some light to "bleed" through. I don't think I had enough coats of paint near the top. Light can also come in at the net cups.
Unsanitary practices is another cause. This is where sloppy habits can get your plants sick. Anything from dirty hands touching the reservoir, foreign objects (leaves, bugs, dirt, etc.) enter the reservoir system, bringing harmful bacteria or viruses (I've never dealt with viruses, but some literature I've read hinted at it).
Those more often then not are causes of root rot, I'm sure there's more, but that's what pops to mind.
H202 is one of the best methods, often referred to as using the "nuclear option" to stop root rot. As it kills all bacteria, good and bad. Bleach used in a very small amount is effective as well.
The Hygrozyme breaks down the dead root tissues into absorbable nutrients to the plants, and is a used to prevent root rot as well. Beneficial bacteria is used in combination after treatments to not give a "foothold" for the bad bacteria to thrive.
it can hit at any stage. To be honest I'm glad it happened this early in case I had to cull them. Root rot Mid flower is mind numbing stress IMO.
Thats a great question, and I think the severity of the root rot would be what determines how controllable it is. Interesting fact- Hygrozyme is usable in soil.
Seriously, thank you for the questions and don't be shy! Root rot effects both soil (too much watering?) and hydro which makes it an even greater topic for discussion.
Edit- and if anybody else has anything to add to the subject, feel free to jump in!
I couldn't have asked for a better response. This left me with not a single question left in my head only would you suggest using the hygrozyme for me in soil? I think Charlie uses it as well or microcorizal? Is that how you spell it? Are they for the same microbial purposes?no such thing in this journal Krissi, questions are encouraged! That's the only way we learn
That's a great question Krissi! There are the common causes, and the rarer but plausible causes.
The common causes are:
higher reservoir temperatures creating a zone for bacteria and viruses to thrive, or just nasties. Best way to overcome that is with a chiller (its like a fridge for your nutrients, that a pump runs it through).
Light leaks. This is the a very common cause, and what I believe caused mine. The only way is to black everything out. Any other color allows some light to "bleed" through. I don't think I had enough coats of paint near the top. Light can also come in at the net cups.
Unsanitary practices is another cause. This is where sloppy habits can get your plants sick. Anything from dirty hands touching the reservoir, foreign objects (leaves, bugs, dirt, etc.) enter the reservoir system, bringing harmful bacteria or viruses (I've never dealt with viruses, but some literature I've read hinted at it).
Those more often then not are causes of root rot, I'm sure there's more, but that's what pops to mind.
H202 is one of the best methods, often referred to as using the "nuclear option" to stop root rot. As it kills all bacteria, good and bad. Bleach used in a very small amount is effective as well.
The Hygrozyme breaks down the dead root tissues into absorbable nutrients to the plants, and is a used to prevent root rot as well. Beneficial bacteria is used in combination after treatments to not give a "foothold" for the bad bacteria to thrive.
it can hit at any stage. To be honest I'm glad it happened this early in case I had to cull them. Root rot Mid flower is mind numbing stress IMO.
Thats a great question, and I think the severity of the root rot would be what determines how controllable it is. Interesting fact- Hygrozyme is usable in soil.
Seriously, thank you for the questions and don't be shy! Root rot effects both soil (too much watering?) and hydro which makes it an even greater topic for discussion.
Edit- and if anybody else has anything to add to the subject, feel free to jump in!
Thank you for your time I am just trying to learn not that I think grow other than soil is in my near future but maybe one day
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- #673
Well you seem to be a goddess of soil so it may not be needed. But when you get to keeping mom's for a long time I think it might be beneficial?
Hygrozyme is enzymes, which is how it breaks down the dead tissue(s).
Mycorrhizae is a form of bacteria that works incredible for root growth. There are many beneficial bacterias, but mycorrhizae is in a league of its own.
Anytime Krissi! Thank you for putting up with my rambling
.
Thank you for all of your knowledge and love friendWell you seem to be a goddess of soil so it may not be needed. But when you get to keeping mom's for a long time I think it might be beneficial?
Hygrozyme is enzymes, which is how it breaks down the dead tissue(s).
Mycorrhizae is a form of bacteria that works incredible for root growth. There are many beneficial bacterias, but mycorrhizae is in a league of its own.
Anytime Krissi! Thank you for putting up with my rambling
Well done, Rexer! You’ve turned them around now. Everything is going in the right direction. Good to see things picking up. Things happen so fast in hydro!
The mycos are the fungi. You probably have blisters on your fingers from typing. I’m sure you knew that.
The mycos are the fungi. You probably have blisters on your fingers from typing. I’m sure you knew that.
- Thread starter
- #676
Thanks DD! That's one of the things I
Actually I had bacteria stuck on my mind for some reason
, so thank you, I truly appreciate it!
Looking good Rex just doing a drive by a lot of catching up to do . Root rot Z7 & hydroguard needed from the start if temp changes are too high . Next grow I do I’m going to use Perfect Sun nutrients and nothing else . Later Rex
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- #678
West!! You've been missed brother! I hope things are going good!
You're right, on all accounts- as usual
Z7 is probably much better then Hygrozyme (im not sure of the difference to be honest- but ill do some reading later on it).
But I just can't find it anymore online (Z9 Canadian version).
$100 for a quart of Hydroguard ; $43 for Root Builder.
The Microbial Mass was something newer I've been meaning to play with, cost me $55 as I grabbed the concentrated pro version.
Root Builder, while it's not the same as Hydroguard, I've used it successfully twice as an alternative...though I still prefer Orca
. Since Hydroguard decided to double their price in Canada I don't want to buy it
Lol.i can't wait to see your new journal! The combination of that light, nutrients and your guru level skills should be spectacular! When are your starting it?
That’s a rip off on the hydroguard $63 for a gallon here . I gave $50 for the Z7 quart . What I like they both work differently, more areas covered . It’s the same here at my house drug dogs being let loose to check the property.West!! You've been missed brother! I hope things are going good!
You're right, on all accounts- as usual
Z7 is probably much better then Hygrozyme (im not sure of the difference to be honest- but ill do some reading later on it).
But I just can't find it anymore online (Z9 Canadian version).
$100 for a quart of Hydroguard ; $43 for Root Builder.
The Microbial Mass was something newer I've been meaning to play with, cost me $55 as I grabbed the concentrated pro version.
Root Builder, while it's not the same as Hydroguard, I've used it successfully twice as an alternative...though I still prefer Orca
i can't wait to see your new journal! The combination of that light, nutrients and your guru level skills should be spectacular! When are your starting it?
These nutrients are strange no color the water is clear !
I’m going to order the root growth platinum from Perfect Sun so I have all the same brand of nutrients.
I have some bag seeds from the dispensary I’m still getting rid of the MC nutrients six pounds still left . Catch you later
What the?