Red & Purple Fan Leave Stems - Help Please

[Greenethumb42]

I'm not sure if this is normal or what but I'm afraid something is going to happen..they have been flowering for 15 days now..they are 7 weeks old from seed..I think it's a phosphorus deff..I'm using fox farm nutes..and I'm using foxfire feeding schedule..I'm using fox farm Grow Big,Big Bloom,Tiger Bloom,Open Sesame,Beastie Bloom and Cha Ching..I feed ones a week at full strength..I also have it in a 5 gal smart pot..the temp.is 23.9 and the humidity is 40%..And it looks like where the bud sites are it look's like it's a yellow..has anyone seen this before

 

[Papageno]

I don't believe the stem color is an issue. That is likely standard indoor lighting response. I do believe I see minor Generic Nute burn, the early signs of Nitrogen overdosing and also what appears to be over watering.

Get to the hydor store and pick up bloom fert like MOAB that has no nitrogen in it. Wait until the pot is light and dried out. Then just add a round of pHd water with some beneficial bacteria and sugars. That will balance out the nute uptake hopefully.

Then let it dry out again and 2nd watering from now if it is looking hungry (it probably wont be) add at 1/2 strength the MOAB. Likely there is enough in there for some time at this point. You probably can get 2.5 to 3 weeks without adding nutes at this point especially if you get a good bacterial colony going in there.

 

[Zehu]

They are looking well. Not every healthy plant looks like your.

 

[Papageno]

Nope there are clear signs of problem. they aren't bad...they are correctable. but just telling peole to keep it in autoopilot when there is a problem doesn't help them.

Pic 1 shows minor leaf tip burn, temps / humidity problems and Nitrogen toxicity.
Pic 2 shows more nutrient leaf tip burn, Humidity problems and nitrogen toxicity.
pic 3 again shows all 3.
pic 4 looks kind of okay except the physiology is wrong as the leaves are not standing up. This is likely due to the heat issue but may be due to a watering problem.
Pic 4 has clear nitrogen toxicity in the rear leaf folding down like that.
the last pic shows way too deep of green which is the first sign of nitrogen toxicity with many leaves showing the tip drop.


This is a very bad sign and will result in problems. Good leaves do not do this.

 

[Greenethumb42]

What should my humidity be..and I know about the nitrogen def.I already flushed the plant about a week ago...my ph runoff is 6.5...and I just got a tds meter today and I checked my water after my nutrients and it was 1500 and my fox farm feeding schedule says it should be 1960 to 2100..should I raise it and how to raise it..also for the first time I'm adding some Sensizym for the first time..and there's no way I'm over watering because after I water I wait at least 4 days to water again..

 

[Papageno]

oh ouch oh oh ouch. So backwards man. ( I am drunk right now so I may hit the wrong keys... )


Lets take a step back and slow down here.

I know about the nitrogen def.

You do not have Nitrogen deficiency. You have nitrogen toxicity. You have too much nitrogen. It is an overdose.

Nitrogen toxicity takes not less than 6 days to turn the corner after everything is fixed. Nitogen toxicity will not be repaired in bad leaves. You can only look at new growth and pray you fixed it. Honestly new growth is looking much better. As you know by now Deep dark green is bad. Weed is vibrant light green in color. The first thing you notice in nitrogen toxicity is deep dark green...then the leafs start curling down, then the tips fold over... then the edges turn yellow...then the leaves fall off...then the plant dies.

So your real problem is most of those fan leaves that are the source of growth will soon wither and fall off. And here is the real rub (Sorry bro but I am all about the hard truth)... In veg you can fix almost anything and the reason is because you can regrow the fan leaves. In bloom the plant is focused on flowers and is not growing fan leaves much more. In fact about half way through no more fan leaves grow at all...and about 2/3rd of the way through bloom they shut down and the plant start cannibalizing them.

Since you are already into bloom you have built up and defined what your available photosynthesis is. You are very limited as to what more you can create. Every sq inch of fan leaf you have now is supper important and you can't trim anything.

So we need to be kind to this plant from here on.


so now lets talk about PPM

What the heck you say? 1500 PPM? That is absolutely off the chart. For a soil grow. Even the best of hydro grows at peak growth don't need to get there. You should ideally be close to nothing in run off PPM. I mean yeah you can have some but people get this ass backwards all the time and I post this on here daily. You must run low not high. If you run low anything can be fixed easily without causing a problem. If you run high you and stunt or kill the plant. I am working with people daily with nute burn on here that are measuring run off at 600 PPM in soil. 1500 PPM and you are killing them.

Now lets talk about feeding schedule. here is only so much room on the label. they do not put on the label how much you need for a micro garden in a tent or in a closet. They put on there what is correct for a proper professional grow with overlapping 1000W bulbs like this.

You do not have tight humidity and temp controls that hold proper day and night levels. So you can't expect your plants will run that high.

Look at this chart and it shows where your temps and humidity should be.

In general however...below 40% humidity stunts growth and reduces vigor. That means lower your nutes. Same with temps that are not ideal. You want your humidity closer to 60%. 50 will work fine...but again not ideal so nutes must go down.

Enzymes are great when used properly but we aren't even close to that conversation yet my friend.


Now lets talk about watering. You say your watering is fine because you wait 4 days...but you don't talk about waiting until the plant tells you it is ready or waiting until the pot is light. 4 days is an arbitrary number. If I had a 2 gallon pot I would need to water more often then if I had a 20 gallon pot. You must water according to watering principals not a stopwatch. If you stunt a plant then it slows down ad stops transpiring and needs less water regardless of the stop watch.

Watering is done when the plant shows signs of lack of water in veg. In bloom you should have a good idea what the watering time is for that rootball and pot after all that time in veg. I have grown plants that suck up 4 gallons a day under certain hot environments. So in some cases in soil I needed to water twice daily. I am currently growing this and I water about once a week.

So there are a lot of variables that you don't yet understand. So you need to feel out the situation and water as needed not follow a prescription.

soak up this info and then think about it...sleep on it and then ask me what to do next.

That is a single plant 36" x 28"

 

[Greenethumb42]

So if you was me what would you do next and what would you change..how can I raise my humidity

 

[Boss1]

Hey man how is your ph it looks like a ph issue to me your using enough nuits they should have all you need if i haf to guess i would say its a little on the high side your getting way to much nitrogen and not enough p and k that tells me to ph your water a little on the low side so it stabilizes it out ph will be your best friend or worst nightmare ph ph ph.

 

[Greenethumb42]

My phone is 6.5 and my runoff pH is 6.5 to 6.4...it's definitely a nitrogen toxicity..the leaves being dark Greene plus they have the claw..I'm just gonna flush them real good and hope for the best

 

[Greenethumb42]

I think I'm going to use any nutes for a week or 2 and just use sensizym..it's savored to use the nutrients that the plant didn't use and use it for food so I'm hoping that the sensizym will take out some of the nitrogen..I hope anyway..I'm trying to do some research trying to save my baby..I'm freaking out..I will be really upset if I lose it

 

[Boss1]

Im very familiar with advanced nutrients but all there stuff will lower your ph its part of there ph perfect line even if it doesn't 6.4 to 6.5 is to low for soil if the ph is wrong it will lock out your p and k and if it doesn't get p and k it wont be able to process the nitrogen thus creating a nitrogen toxicity.

 

[Greenethumb42]

Everyone say 6.5 is perfect for soil..what do you think it should be

 

[Boss1]

You should use there flawless finish the chelates in there will clean the pot by bonding on a molecular level and flush the excess fertz out i believe sensizyme will make ur prob worse because there is a small amount of nitrogen in there.

 

[Boss1]

For the soil ur using it should be no lower than 6.8 to 6.7 but ideally it should be kept as close to 7 as possible. What is your Soil and ill tell you exactly where it should be?

 

[Greenethumb42]

Fox Farm Ocean Forest

 

[Boss1]

You defiantly need to lower your ppm i would go to half to 3/4 the full strenght less is usually more with nutrients.

 

[Greenethumb42]

What should my ppm be

 

[Papageno]

Well ....

I like to keep my pH a little on the lower side. 6.5 is the middle but I find it is not really the best. I find about 6.3 is the best but there is no perfect spot. I find that the farther from 6.3 the worse it gets. after 7 it is very problematic. 6.5 is the middle but that doesn't mean best.

Anyway you are right on target. Do the flush, get the enzymes and if you really want to do it right get some beneficial bacteria in there to revive and bring it back.

The plant is not lots. Don't freak too hard. You totally got this. You don't have yellowed leaf edges. you have some standard nute burn but Nitrogen toxicity doesn't really hit the wall until the edges full length start to yellow. then you are in for a ride...but still recoverable.

I would do the flush with the benies and zymes and then wait about a week till it is dry and see what she is telling you.

The problem with over doing it is the plant can't expel it. So it is there for the duration. What we have to do is try to get her to use it.

To raise Humidity hang some soaked towels around her. I also will in my tens use old grow stones in a drip pan of water right in front of the base fan as that makes great surface area and evaporates fas. I also have a bucket with water that has a full size regular towel that is partially submerged and the rest of it hangs round and is draped over one of the inlet vents. So fresh air is going over the "swamp cooler".

 

[Greenethumb42]

I'm glad your here with me helping me figure this out..what Beneficial Bacteria would you recommend me getting..I think I know where I messed up at...when she was in veg I started with Grow Big then a week before flower I started the Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom..I should of used Big Bloom from the beginning..there's barely any nitrogen in it..but I well learn from are mistake's..I will be happy with whatever I get from this girl..it's for personal use anyway...I have to wait a little to flush it causes I just water it..or should I flush it now

 

[Greenethumb42]

And what should my temp and humidity be at