Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

Continuing from the above post...
Next up... I'll look into the lineages of the above amazing terpinolene-dominant CBD strains, and come full circle to the legendary Sour Tsunami and Harle-Tsu. I'll take a brief look at ACDC and Cannatonic, and the mysterious Early Resin Berry (ERB).

One question that pops into my mind is, why did Oregon CBD launch their "sour strains" in 2020, specifically for high-terpinolene content, when they already had the Lifter strain with terpinolene as one of the top 3 terpenes? And then it seems they renamed it Sour Lifter in the 2022/2023 releases. But what actually happened is that Sour Lifter was created by breeding Lifter with an in-house created "terpinolene dominant CBD variety", in 2021—what they call their "GG#4 conversion". From the terpene profiles I've seen, it appears Sour Lifter actually has less terpinolene than Lifter, but I'm sure there is phenotypic variation for both.

So, why the "sour strains," and why the emphasis on terpinolene? Oregon CBD launched these "sour" strains in 2020/2021: Sour Elektra, Sour Hawaiian Haze, Sour Special Sauce, and Super Sour Space Candy. In their online catalog they say about the Sour CBDs—"Improved for 2021, these varieties feature a newly selected, terpinolene dominant [Gorilla Glue #4] conversion parent that helps them put on the weight and finish fast!". It's looks like they were also going for high resin production, coupled with citrus, berry, and tropical aromas and flavors. From my research, strains high in terpinolene are known for citrus, berry, and tropical aromas.

Curious thing, though, I don't see any mention of mold/fungus resistance associated with Oregon CBD's "sour strains", which would be my primary reason for trying out high-terpinolene CBD strains. They remark about their classic strain, Special Sauce, "Ideal for humid climates with strong mold resistance." Yet I don't see any significant terpinolene in the one terpene profile I found for Special Sauce, and another website mentions that terpinolene is not in the top 3 terpenes for Special Sauce. Even more curious is that Oregon CBD has bred "seedless" triploid genetics that they claim have high fungus/mold resistance, including: triploid versions of Suver Haze, Sour Suver Haze, and Lifter. About the triploid Suver Haze they say, "Excels in moist climates and exhibits strong resistance to botrytis". (That's the only mention of botrytis resistance I can find on Oregon CBD's website.) But this is very interesting, because triploids are typically larger plants with more resin production, and the non-triploid Suver Haze (from what I can tell) doesn't contain significant amounts of terpinolene—therefore, the strong resistance to botrytis, I'm guessing, is coming from the increased resin production. That's my guess. So, it could be that big plants with high resin production bring out the inherent fungus/mold resistance. I just experienced this with the recent harvest of my #9 pheno of Cherry Blossom. But the way I accomplished that was to increase pot size!

***
Speaking of Cherry Blossom, this is a good segue into Harle-Tsu. Why? Because Cherry Blossom is a cross of Harle-Tsu and Cherry Pie. Well, I should say that at least one strain called "Cherry Blossom", high in CBD, is a cross of Harle-Tsu and Cherry Pie.

But that's not the Cherry Blossom CBD that I'm growing. I'm fairly certain the Cherry Blossom that I'm growing is Cherry Wine x Berry Blossom. Looking a bit deeper: Cherry Wine is Charlotte's Cherries x The Wife; Berry Blossom is Cherry Kandahar S1 and Chardonnay. Looking even deeper: Charlotte's Cherries is Charlotte's Web x Colorado Cherry. (As far as I can tell, Colorado Cherry is a THC strain from Cherry Pie x Tree of Life.) Regarding Cherry Kandahar, that's close to a landrace Afghani indica (THC). Chardonnay is Black Rose and Cherry Wine (there's that Cherry Wine again). I'm not sure which "Black Rose" they mean there, but it's a THC strain. (purple = high CBD)

So, the high-CBD genetics in the Cherry Blossom CBD that I'm growing is from Charlotte's Web and The Wife. While Charlotte's Web has Lawrence Ringo's Harle-Tsu prominent in its lineage, The Wife is a bit of a mystery, traced to High Grade Hemp Seeds in Colorado. They were not the creators, however. Credit for that goes to Foundation Seeds, another hemp breeder in Colorado, who created it from Spectrum x Wife. Both Spectrum and Wife were phenotypes of Heartwood IBL, which was derived from genetics received from Spain in 2011 [ source ]. (There's that timeframe again, 2010/2011—The dawn of CBD strains.)

That mystery high-CBD Spanish germplasm used to create The Wife may have been Juanita la Lagrimosa, Cannatonic, or Dancehall.

***​

Now back to the amazing strains of Oregon CBD. What well-known eary CBD genetics are they based on, or do they incorporate? The mystery gets thick now. Oregon CBD did its own foundational in-house breeding. To create Lifter, they crossed their own Suver Haze with the high-CBD strain, Early Resin Berry (ERB). I can't find anything on Early Resin Berry, but I'm guessing they acquired a clone or clones of it from somewhere. It seems at first ERB was a 1:1 strain, and then perhaps Oregon CBD morphed it into a type 3 strain, but that's a total guess. Or maybe they developed ERB from some other genetics. As for Suver Haze, they crossed Suver #8 with ERB, and Suver is a strain they developed on Suver Road, north of Corvallis, Oregon...

"After crossing our “Special Sauce” mom with our select (THC) Neville’s Haze male in 2015, an open pollination was conducted with 40 F1 siblings. When the resulting F2 seeds were grown out and chemotyped, only 1 plant out of 72 females in the test grow was a type III hemp plant..."

Special Sauce and ERB are the two secret ingredients in Suver, Suver Haze, and Lifter.

Besides Special Sauce, ERB, Suver, and Suver Haze, Oregon CBD also incorporated other CBD genetics: Sour Tsunami and a mystery strain, W19—could it be a pheno of Wife or The Wife?

Sour Tsunami is found in the lineages of Oregon CBD's Sour Candy Kush (high terpinolene), and Sour Space Candy (terpinolene dominant).

And completing the circle... Sour Tsunami was created by Lawrence Ringo, and then with it he created Harle-Tsu (Harlequin x Sour Tsunami).

Here's the terpinolene content for Harle-Tsu, from a 2016 terpene profile on Kannapedia:

1717379300000.png


Terpinolene also shows up prominently in Ringo's Gift, which is Harle-Tsu x AC/DC.

***​

Lasty, let's take a quick look at the genetics behind East Fork Cultivars' high-CBD terpinolene-dominant strains...

Pineapple Kush CBD is Sour Pineapple x Suzy’s Gift (Bubba Kush x Ringo’s Gift).

Sour Pineapple CBD is Sour Tsunami x Pineapple Tsu (Sour Tsunami x Pineapple). (Pineapple is an old strain, mostly skunk genetics.)

Here we see Sour Tsunami as high in terpinolene, terpinene, and pinene:
1717381030351.png

Here we see Pineapple Tsu as terpinolene dominant:
1717380780248.png



So, we see the terpinolene of Sour Tsunami and Harle-Tsu shining through in these high-CBD, terpinolene-dominant strains.

***​

Lastly, a very quick look at AC/DC and Cannatonic CBD strains. AC/DC is actually a phenotype of Cannatonic. Looking at the terpene profiles for each, neither contains much terpinolene. Cannatonic originated in Spain. Leafly says, "Bred by Resin Seeds in Spain, Cannatonic is a high-CBD strain with relatively low THC levels."

Next up... After this deep dive, I'll come back to the surface and consider the "bigger picture" in terms of my quest for mold-resistant strains.

:ciao:
 
Lastly, a very quick look at AC/DC and Cannatonic CBD strains. AC/DC is actually a phenotype of Cannatonic. Looking at the terpene profiles for each, neither contains much terpinolene. Cannatonic originated in Spain. Leafly says, "Bred by Resin Seeds in Spain, Cannatonic is a high-CBD strain with relatively low THC levels."
I grew AC/DC for a bit. It's linked somehow to Dr William Courtney, I think it might have been his pheno selection of a Cannatonic that got bred out. Don't remember the details but It was reading his stuff that started me out on using the acidic versions of the various cannabinoids.

His view is we all should be taking them as a "supplement" much like one would vitamins and minerals. He's big on juicing the leaves.
 
I grew AC/DC for a bit. It's linked somehow to Dr William Courtney, I think it might have been his pheno selection of a Cannatonic that got bred out. Don't remember the details but It was reading his stuff that started me out on using the acidic versions of the various cannabinoids.
Yep, I just read about a doctor I think in northern Calif., a cannabis breeder, who created AC/DC using a pheno of Cannatonic.

His view is we all should be taking them as a "supplement" much like one would vitamins and minerals. He's big on juicing the leaves.
I totally agree. Cannabis like vitamins. I think I recall you talking about your sprinkles... ground up CBD buds that you put on food. I actually just mentioned that concept to a friend yesterday, and I'd like to start doing it myself!
 
I totally agree. Cannabis like vitamins. I think I recall you talking about your sprinkles... ground up CBD buds that you put on food. I actually just mentioned that concept to a friend yesterday, and I'd like to start doing it myself!
It's a bit of an acquired taste and a good cure helps with the bitterness, but yes I do sprinkle it around. It's like that Hot Sauce commercial, I put that sh... on everything! :laughtwo:

I mix up various combinations but cbd is a prominent factor in most if them, like 80% or more prominent.
 
I think I recall you talking about your sprinkles... ground up CBD buds that you put on food. I actually just mentioned that concept to a friend yesterday, and I'd like to start doing it myself!

If this is helpful, @sweet Sue has a Canna Dust thread.

Just speaking for myself, canna dust it helps take the load off the lungs, so I can get my CBD without roasting my innards. (And then when I want to voyage, then I can vape.)
(Of course your mileage may vary, but it works for me.)

If this is helpful, I am SUPER looking forward to the fermented cob! (I have another month to go until I can test to see if the CBD makes it...). That should take potency to the next level without the need to involve the lungs at all. (YMMV.)
If not, please just ignore (but it is hoped that it will be helpful).


I am learnign a ton on your thread. I had no idea I should be getting my phenos dialed in! (And then one day when I get my phenos dialed in, I can put them into the cob...) Hopefully that will be the most potent way that does not involve roasting my lungs (which need help).
 
If this is helpful, @sweet Sue has a Canna Dust thread.
thanks!

If this is helpful, I am SUPER looking forward to the fermented cob! (I have another month to go until I can test to see if the CBD makes it...). That should take potency to the next level without the need to involve the lungs at all. (YMMV.)
If not, please just ignore (but it is hoped that it will be helpful).

Wow, thanks again! I was wondering what you meant by "cob" in some of your posts. Well, once again I have learned something new about cannabis!

I am learning a ton on your thread. I had no idea I should be getting my phenos dialed in! (And then one day when I get my phenos dialed in, I can put them into the cob...) Hopefully that will be the most potent way that does not involve roasting my lungs (which need help).
Yeah, it's all about the phenos. Of course, some seed lines produce more uniform genetics, but from what I can tell, most stable seed lines throw 2 or more phenos. And it's very possible to get both sativa(-leaning) and indica(-leaning) phenos from the same seed lines. And of course, you'll see different terpene profiles for the different phenos, so there are implications for fungus/mold resistance.
 
Glad if I can contribute something useful.
I am learning a ton.
 
As I learned earlier in this thread, the trichomes on leaves produce terpenes, resulting in fragrant leaves.

But did you know, these leaf trichomes can also produce cannabinoids in some cases?

I just came across this recently, in my research on the origins of CBD strains, talking about the Harlequin strain, which was produced by Joel of NorStar Genetics from a clone acquired from Harborside Oakland in 2009...

Cannabinoids in Harlequin Leaf?
Earlier this year Wilson Linker, a sales executive at Steep Hill Lab, tested leaves taken from a Harlequin plant about five weeks after it was started indoors from a clone. "Still completely in veg," he says of the plant. Linker took leaves from different various parts of the plant, ground them up, and tested them by GC/MS. To his surprise, the leaf tested at approximately 4% CBD and 2% THC.
Linker repeated the test and confirmed the results with another Harlequin clone started the same day. Key questions will be answered by more testing: Do all Harlequin plants produce cannabinoids in the vegetative state? Do other CBD-rich strains have this trait?
[ source ]​
 
Greetings Growmies,

PHOTOS: The Humboldt Dream buds are ripening... lots of amber showing. 53 days in flower. Bracts very swollen. Still no sign of bud rot, which I think is due to the fat colas and heavy resin production. (I didn't have the best lighting for the photos, and these were taken without a tripod). I would really love to have my new bud dryer ready for this harvest... I'll see how far I can get on the project this weekend.

HD_cola1.jpg


HD_bud1.jpg


humboldt_dream_trichomes1.jpg


HD_trichomes2.jpg


HD_trichomes3.jpg


:ciao:
:420:
 
Hey CBD, may I please ask you? You seem to be the resident expert on Mould resistance.
I've got some nice looking sativa CBD autos for this grow, but on the next grow I want to go back to Photos and start a clone room. My problem is that I bought Seeds when I was still on the Pacific side of the country divide, where the humidity is much less, so I did not take humidity into account when buying seeds. So I bought a whole bunch of seeds by BC bud depot.
Could you please comment on several strains by BC Bud Depot? I have seeds for everything on this page.
CBD Archives – Best Cannabis Bud Depot

I wrote them, but did not hear back. I suppose I should write to ask them again, but I am doubtful that they are going to want to comment anything negative about mold resistance.

For my comments, I grew Northern Lights CBD auto the last grow, and I got mold in two spots, although thankfully 😅 I was able to save the grow 😅🙏

For another comment, this last grow I grew auto CBD crack (now called CBD one:one, which seems more apt.) I did not get any mold on it. I don't see why this would be called "crack" because to me it's not so much super run run energizing, it's more of a one on one personal intimate conversation focus type herb, which is great for me! so I was thinking of buying more seeds, but I thought I should get your comment.
I do not know how long a photo run takes in SIP buckets, but it is still a substantial amount of time and effort, so it would be great to plant mold resistant seeds. Because right now the humidity is in the high 90s.
Thank you gro 🙏
:thanks:
 
Could you please comment on several strains by BC Bud Depot? I have seeds for everything on this page.
CBD Archives – Best Cannabis Bud Depot
My pick for 1:1 of those would be Sour Tsunami, not only because of consistency of getting 1:1, but also for bud rot resistance. You may also discover a type 3 pheno (high CBD, <1% THC). In this thread ABOVE I wrote about Sour Tsunami being part of the lineage of some super, high-terpinolene CBD strains, and also provided a terp profile showing one pheno of Sour Tsunami being high in terpinolene and other pine terps.

EDIT: There are a lot of 1:1 strains out there, and I haven't done much research on them. A popular one that comes to mind with evidence of some high-terpinolene/pine phenos is Stephen Hawking Kush.
 
My pick for 1:1 of those would be Sour Tsunami, not only because of consistency of getting 1:1, but also for bud rot resistance.
:thumb:
Sour Tsunami sounds great! And I am in the mood for diesel! Only, I just remembered that BC Bud Depot is regular seeds, and ai am not sire I want to run regulars this run. (I might run regulars inside right before I move...)
(Man, I thought I was going to be growing outdoors in ground on the Pacific side!)

You may also discover a type 3 pheno (high CBD, <1% THC).
I am looking forward to learning all of the phenos.
What kind of strategies are available if you find out after the chop which pheno you liked best?? :hmmmm:

In this thread ABOVE I wrote about Sour Tsunami being part of the lineage of some super, high-terpinolene CBD strains, and also provided a terp profile showing one pheno of Sour Tsunami being high in terpinolene and other pine terps.
:green_heart::green_heart::green_heart:
Awesome research, CBD.
EDIT: There are a lot of 1:1 strains out there, and I haven't done much research on them. A popular one that comes to mind with evidence of some high-terpinolene/pine phenos is Stephen Hawking Kush.
Ok.
Can I please ask you about two more strains? Both are high CBD, high terpenes (although I am not sure which ones).

Delicious Seeds CBD Jam (everything always bought from a sponsor)

Delicious Seeds Deep Mandarine

I think I have feminized of these.
:thanks:

(PS EDIT: i'm planning on putting in a small clone room upstairs, just to keep clones alive with roots. I could hypothetically put males in there, but there's not even really a door in between the second floor and the first floor, so probably it would be difficult to work with regular seeds at the moment.)
 
:thumb:
Sour Tsunami sounds great! And I am in the mood for diesel! Only, I just remembered that BC Bud Depot is regular seeds, and ai am not sire I want to run regulars this run. (I might run regulars inside right before I move...)
(Man, I thought I was going to be growing outdoors in ground on the Pacific side!)
Grower's Choice (sponsor) has feminized, and there are some other sellers as well.


Annunaki has Sour Tsunami #3 S1s.

I am looking forward to learning all of the phenos.
What kind of strategies are available if you find out after the chop which pheno you liked best??
Before you flip or move your plants to flower, take clones and mark them.

Can I please ask you about two more strains? Both are high CBD, high terpenes (although I am not sure which ones).

Delicious Seeds CBD Jam (everything always bought from a sponsor)
I can't find a terpene profile, but there is evidence that at least one pheno has very high resin production. In my research, high resin production also points to bud rot resistance. Also CBD Jam is said to have sweet/pineapple/fruity aroma, which lines up with terpinolene (however perhaps not exclusively).

Also can't find a terpene profile, but one of the parents is Sugar Black Rose (SBR) which in my research showed high terpinolene. So, I'm guessing you might find at least one pheno of Deep Mandarine with high terpinolene/pine terps. SBR was actually one of my picks for a sativa-dominant, terpinolene-dominant THC strain. Delicious lists Deep Mandarine as 60% indica, so I'm guessing there is a sativa-leaning pheno that may have high terpinolene like its sativa-dominant parent, SBR. Perhaps that pheno is more rare than the indica-leaning phenos.
 
Grower's Choice (sponsor) has feminized, and there are some other sellers as well.

:thumb: Those sound great!
Only, I am broke, hahaha! 😂 But I will keep those in mind for when we get money again (which is bound to happen, someday...). I could REALLY go for some diesel CBD right about now!
Bookmarking the page....
Annunaki has Sour Tsunami #3 S1s.
Those sound amazing.
Before you flip or move your plants to flower, take clones and mark them.
:thumb:
I can't find a terpene profile, but there is evidence that at least one pheno has very high resin production. In my research, high resin production also points to bud rot resistance. Also CBD Jam is said to have sweet/pineapple/fruity aroma, which lines up with terpinolene (however perhaps not exclusively).
:thumb:
Also can't find a terpene profile, but one of the parents is Sugar Black Rose (SBR) which in my research showed high terpinolene. So, I'm guessing you might find at least one pheno of Deep Mandarine with high terpinolene/pine terps. SBR was actually one of my picks for a sativa-dominant, terpinolene-dominant THC strain. Delicious lists Deep Mandarine as 60% indica, so I'm guessing there is a sativa-leaning pheno that may have high terpinolene like its sativa-dominant parent, SBR. Perhaps that pheno is more rare than the indica-leaning phenos.
:thumb:
Awesome game plan, CBD. Now I understand why you guys take clones. Yes, SBR is an amazing strain! I was hoping for a CBD version, which I guess this is in photo form.

I am just guessing that the next two grows might be photo fem CBD Jam and Deep Mandarine, and look for sativa phenos.
Once I have two solid photo harvests back to back, then I can try some strains that might be more susceptible to mold (i.e., I can take some chances).
It will be great to have some sativa phenos!
 
I am just guessing that the next two grows might be photo fem CBD Jam and Deep Mandarine, and look for sativa phenos.
Once I have two solid photo harvests back to back, then I can try some strains that might be more susceptible to mold (i.e., I can take some chances).
It will be great to have some sativa phenos!
If you grow with your super soil in 10 gal pots, you'll have the best chance of maximizing resin production, which helps with fungus/mold resistance. If you are using SIPs... it's a different ballgame and I have zero experience with them.
 
Wow, check this! I just came across ACE's Lebanese, 100% sativa, and high CBD...


From ACE's website...

"Complex and rich terpene profile. It mainly contains the following monoterpenes: high amounts of terpinolene and alpha pinene, followed by beta pinene and limonene in moderate quantities, with variability in the beta myrcene content and variability in the presence of smaller amounts of linalool and trans ocimene. Sesquiterpenes: mainly beta-caryophyllene (75-100 %) with variability in the presence of alpha hulenene (0-25 %)."

THC 0.5-8 %
CBD 6-16 %

So, different phenos ranging from type 3 to 1:1.

ACE says "average" resistance to botrytis (bud rot).

Other promising ACE genetics for CBD...

• Lebanon x Hokkaido Japan F1
• CBD # 1 x Purple PCK 2002
 
If you grow with your super soil in 10 gal pots, you'll have the best chance of maximizing resin production, which helps with fungus/mold resistance. If you are using SIPs... it's a different ballgame and I have zero experience with them.
I would totally love to have bigger SIP buckets! If they sold seven or 10 gallon versions, I would probably buy them, if I had money 😅.
Only, right now I am indoors under LEDs with a maximum height limit of 5'10".
So if I am Pheno hunting for sativa then I figure I should probably flip when the tallest girl (sativa?) is about maybe 19-20 inches above pot height on the first run, just to play it safe.
Undoubtably you are right in that that is flipping early for her. If I had a higher roof, I would be glad to let her get much bigger! I'm sure the quality gets better as they mature, also. But I'm not sure what else to do about the hard height limit.

Anyway, SIPs are aeration. I was having a hard time with watering, and it took the difficulty out of watering for me, so I use it.
I would like to try some 7 or 10 G SWICK in the future. i think Shed is testing woth SWICK (not sure if you are interested or not)
Sometimes you can smell people growing it here, so it must be possible. I am not sure about finding native CBD, but we can probably breed something that ultimately can be grown outdoors (if I ever get there…).

SIP just means turbo. I think the main thing to focus on is volume of super soil.
I have about 3.75 usable gallons of super soil per 5 gallon SIP bucket.
If I flip around 19 or 20 inches tall for the tallest (assumed sativa) girls, I figure the 3.75 gallons of super soil in those buckets should be sifficient to poser the grow without too much top dressing.
(And if it is not enough , and I have to top dress on this first run, oh well... in that case I would just need to mix the super soil a little stronger next time, ha ha. 😆 )

Hey, I do not want to hijack your thread, or dis your big pots! Long life to big pots! But right now I'm not sure what to do about height limitations.
If I can find something adapted locally, then yes, I would like to try seven or 10 or even 20 gallon SWICK, or maybe even bigger for tropical sativas.
(I am not sure what makes Swick good. It does not make sense to me.)
I would like to have a great big gigantic SWICK growing tropical CBD sativas! :smokin:
Hahahaha, anyway, I do not want to hijack your thread! You just seem to know a lot about phenos and mold resistance.

PS, NOW I see what you guys are on about, about cloning and phenos. I am just not sire how to work regulars indoors right now.
 
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