Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

Mini-mini SIP Cloner Update

The clones in the mini SIPS are all looking a bit droopy today on days 8/9, a few days after I've taken the domes completely off so I think keeping water in the reservoir and on a heat mat is keeping the medium too wet as the heat causes accelerated evaporation right up into the soil mix.

I had been topping up the reservoirs as the water evaporated so I'll now let both the reservoirs and soil dry out a bit over the next few days and see how it goes. On my next run I'll just leave the reservoir empty to start and just add water after the domes come off and the mix starts to dry out a bit.

On the larger plants, the top watering with my fish fertilizer seems to maybe have at least slowed the nitrogen fade, but it certainly hasn't been an instant fix. In soil, changes happen gradually over a week or so, so hopefully by week's end things will be back to better health.

It's interesting that, so far at least, it's only the first up-pot and plants in flower showing the deficiency so it seems to be related to time/age and perhaps root growth. The larger and first veg plant's roots have completely filled the reservoir but I don't think it is root bound as there is no droop showing in the leaves.

It has been drinking the entire reservoir every day and could've used more, but since I top watered it hasn't used up the reservoir water over the past two days. It's probably just exhausted the original nutrient supply and I haven't been replenishing it in the soil, but simply adding the nutrients to the reservoir which I figured would be sufficient since I was adding some every day. If the top feeding resolves the issue that would suggest that the top roots are more of the feeding roots and the bottom ones are watering roots. I had figured roots are roots, but maybe not.

So, there're some good lessons for when I use larger containers that won't allow me to see the roots. Those lessons being water-only in the reservoir, fertigate periodically (maybe once a week?) from the top and then go a few days without top or bottom watering to let everything assimilate. And probably top dress with my crumbles periodically to provide longer term nutrient sources that the microbes can work on.

To that end, I added more comfrey crumble as a top dress today, just sprinkling it across and right on top of the leaf mulch layer and then misted it to moisten it back up.
 
Welcome @danishoes21 ! :welcome:

You're not late, it seems like there's a never-ending list of experiments to try. I have narrowed some things down and answered some questions along the way.

Have you tried any of the plant extracts in your grows? Seems like a whole new world once you fall down the rabbit hole. But in a good way. :cool:
 
Azimuth said:
Welcome @danishoes21 ! :welcome:

You're not late, it seems like there's a never-ending list of experiments to try. I have narrowed some things down and answered some questions along the way.

Have you tried any of the plant extracts in your grows? Seems like a whole new world once you fall down the rabbit hole. But in a good way. :cool:
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Hi Azi hope everything is going well in your world,

To be honest I have tried many types of compost tea but I have never gonne farther than just the fermentation and use. I havent reduced or distilled any extraction from the teas. It would be a great way to preserve it. I would usally start my teas around winter if possible and let them sit for the next 3 months, by spring they should be ready to use.
Other remark is my teas are Anaerobic teas (I dont use a air pump), very different than aerobic teas.

things I've tried over the years;

For vegetative state
-sheep, chicken and rabbit manure (if not properly fermented its hot burns the plant high N)

For bloom and foliar application.
-horsetail, nettle, comfrey, seaweed, molasses, worm castings, dandelion, yarrow, mullein and some others I cant remember at the moment.

:peace:
 
Interesting, as I use some of your flower inputs in veg. Horse Tail Fern, for example has high levels of silica which can help strengthen stems while in veg, seaweed has great growth hormones included in addition to widely varied minerals, comfrey has very high levels of NPK and is a good base fertilizer. It's a bit short on most of the other things, though. Fortunately, s nettle is light in both P and K, but high in most everything else so seems to be the perfect compliment for the comfrey.

I'm not familiar with your yarrow and mullein. What attracts you to those?

In Jadam, water ferments of flowers and fruits are often used in flower.
 
Azimuth said:
Interesting, as I use some of your flower inputs in veg. Horse Tail Fern, for example has high levels of silica which can help strengthen stems while in veg, seaweed has great growth hormones included in addition to widely varied minerals, comfrey has very high levels of NPK and is a good base fertilizer. It's a bit short on most of the other things, though. Fortunately, s nettle is light in both P and K, but high in most everything else so seems to be the perfect compliment for the comfrey.

I'm not familiar with your yarrow and mullein. What attracts you to those?

In Jadam, water ferments of flowers and fruits are often used in flower.
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I use them just based on previous experience, I dont have the science knowledge to make a statement like; one weed serves me more during veg or flower. Some of the things I use for the Cannabis plants work for us humans but not for Cannabis :hmmmm:

Activating Compost With Yarrow

“Yarrow is always the greatest boon, wherever it grows wild in the country — at the edges of the fields or roads, where cereals or potatoes ...
bobbleheadowlhomestead.blogspot.com

I use horsetail becuase the high silica promotes hair growth/strength, in us humans (strong hair, helps with balding, male secret ;)), but in cannabis it can serve as a antifungal, increses strenght and vigor in the plant. I agree its a miracle weed just like nettle, and comfrey.

In my current grow I have been using seaweed tea (rockweed not kelp) 2-3 times a week since my plants touched the ground. I had a second tea I labeled Nitrogen rich tea (was a mix of sheep and mushrrom manure, comfrey, nettle, yarrow, mullein, dandelion, all weeds growing in my garden consuming resources) so it was "hot" too strong so I used it half the time I would use the seaweed. This is the first time I use only seaweed tea as watering, I havent used water alone, besides the rain fall.

I use mullein for the antimicrobial properties. (preventive use)

I make the teas and foliar sprays as a way to make available nutrients for the plant to take, and even if some weeds may have a full spectrum of NPK, in theory the plant should only take what she needs form whats avaible in the soil. Im never too worried unless it shows on the leaf. N toxcity is one of the most quick to catch.

I am also a never ending student of plants.

:hippy:
 
Azimuth said:
Mini-Me JMS

(Jadam Microorganism Solution)

The recipes used in Jadam were all written using amounts suitable for small farms. Since we gardeners operate at a much smaller scale, we have to adapt them for our purposes.

The original JMS recipe starts with 500 Liters or 132 gallons of water. It then adds 0.5 kg (1.1 lb) of leaf mold soil, 1 kg (2.2 lb) boiled potato, and 0.5 kg (1.1 lb) of sea salt. The mix then gets diluted 1:10 with more water before use.

Here it is scaled down for 1L or 1Qt, which is then diluted into 10L or 2.5 gallons to give to your plants

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1 Liter / 1 Qt Non-chlorinated water (I use rain water)
1 Gram / 1/8 tsp Leaf Mold Soil or Red Worm Castings
1 Gram / 1/8 tsp Sea Salt
2 Gram / 1/4 - 1/2 tsp Dried Potato Flakes

Mix it all together, cover and let it sit near the plants you'll use it on so you will be culturing the microbes that will thrive in that environment. Depending on temperatures it will be done in anywhere from 2 days to a week or so.

**********

I sometimes heat the potato flakes and a small amount of the water in the microwave, maybe 1min on high. It seems to help the flakes dissolve, although it works fine without doing that. I also often make half the amount depending on how much I plan to use.

The reason you need so little of the microbe ingredient is because of their ability to multiply. According to Master Cho, the microbes will double every 30 minutes or so. So even if you have the world's worst leaf mold soil or the world's worst worms which make the world's worst castings, the Eighth Wonder of the World, compounding, will come to your rescue.

Here's the math for every 1 microbe:
1 million after 10 hours
1 billion after 15 hours

It is recommended to dilute it 1:10 for use as a soil drench. For a foliar application, filter and dilute 1:25 and add a small amount of a wetting agent like aloe or an organic soap.
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Thanks, Azi! Another book-mark.

You da Man!
 
scottreid1966 said:
Thanks, Azi! Another book-mark.

You da Man!
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This is the stuff Bode uses for battling bud rot and mold on his outdoor grows. It's also super effective for helping break down organic matter in the soil or compost pile and therefore proving nutrients for organically raised plants. Good stuff.

I just made another micro batch, 8oz that I'll use in my fertigation water, as well as to add to several JLF batches I'm brewing, and some to go on the outdoor garden soil. Doesn't take much room and is super simple to make so if you're growing organically its easy to always have a batch going.
 
Azimuth said:
Mini Mini-SIP

"How low can you go?"

I've been very impressed with the performance of the SIP's I've created with the 1L containers and today I'm trying something smaller.

I have a couple of stages for my vegging plants, a stage right after rooting where I keep the plants in a limbo mode, and the other a true veg and growth mode to prepare them for flower.

The first stage is done in 9 oz cups with pretty bland soil and low light, and the plants languish there until one gets selected to migrate over into the flower prep stage. At that point it gets up-potted to a 1L container with my GroMix and then trained to keep its shape manageable.

In the 9 oz section I have two clones of the same Blue Kush plant taken at the same time and both in about the same sorry shape so thought it might be a good experiment to see how much the SIP structure by itself matters. Both are in the old, bland soil so very little nutrient value to be had there. So, does the bottom watering set-up by itself produce a materially different plant than my normal, and traditional, wet/dry cycle? Let's find out.

For these 9 oz cups, I used big, chunky perlite in the reservoir, and teased off the bottom section of the roots and soil to accommodate the perlite section, so I'll be able to compare whether a decent plant can be grown on just the liquid feed, or if the GroMix plays as important a role as I think it does to produce a healthy plant.

Everything else will stay the same as far as lighting and other factors. The standard plant will continue to be watered when the pot feels light, and the SIP plant will be watered through the reservoir only. It seems to take 10-14 days for my converted plants to create the roots that find the reservoir after which there is a noticeable improvement in overall health so it will be interesting to see if the same applies here since this plant did not get the GroMix soil upgrade.

I also have two nearly identical clones already in the pre-flower stage, one in each setup, that I will flower together in a couple of weeks to test the SIP structure vs wet/dry all the way through flower. That experiment will start after I harvest my current plant that should be finishing up in the next week or two.
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About three weeks in and the two plants still look about the same. The SIP plant roots found the reservoir after about 10 days and look great with fishboning and lots of lateral growth but I'm not seeing the dramatic improvement I saw with the larger plants. The difference, I think, is that for this plant I did not upgrade the soil mix from a bland potting soil to my GrowMix like I have done for all of the other, larger, plants.

Although it's still a bit early, my conclusion is that the mix itself is important to the overall health of the plant and this seems to confirm my observation about the nutrient deficiencies in the larger plants, and possibly that there is, in fact, a difference in at least the location of roots and where the feedings take place. Reservoir feeding seems much less effective than either top dressing or top fertigating .

Therefore I will incorporate these lessons into my grow. I'll probably top dress with my crumbles, malted barley and my IPM mix every 10 days or so, and lightly fertigate with my JLF nutes once a week, and then add water to the reservoir when it is dry. Like in soil, I seem to get better reservoir root growth after the rez has been dry for a day or two.

*******
I also started a few more clones in my Mini-SIPs, but this time I left the reservoir dry. I think starting them off with water and bottom heat kept the soil too wet as the water evaporated into the soil mix above. In about a week when the domes come off I'll reevaluate what I want to do.
 
Azimuth said:
This is the stuff Bode uses for battling bud rot and mold on his outdoor grows. It's also super effective for helping break down organic matter in the soil or compost pile and therefore proving nutrients for organically raised plants. Good stuff.

I just made another micro batch, 8oz that I'll use in my fertigation water, as well as to add to several JLF batches I'm brewing, and some to go on the outdoor garden soil. Doesn't take much room and is super simple to make so if you're growing organically its easy to always have a batch going.
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Thanks again, bro. Will check all your links. Would like all of my future out door grows to be organic. I still have a bit of overdrive left and a shitload of big bud yet my past grows have all had pretty loose nugs.
How is it for root exceleration? That ROOTS excelurator Gold I bought that Bill has cost a small fortune and I need to apply it up untill stretch stops.
BTW> When does stretch stop? At flowering?
question: What is fertigation water?:hmmmm:
PS Was just reading the above posting. What does "top fertigating" mean.
Thanks,
cheers
 
scottreid1966 said:
How is it for root exceleration? That ROOTS excelurator Gold I bought that Bill has cost a small fortune and I need to apply it up untill stretch stops.
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I don't know how it would compare to purchased microbes that purport to do that. I'm of the opinion that all microbes are all around us and different ones become dominant based on microconditions. And I think the roots benefit as much from fungi as they do microbes, but I've never grown with purchased microbes so can't say. I do have an unopened bottle of Great White that I'll do an experiment with some day, but for now I have no experience with it.

That said, Bill and many others swear by it.

My grow mix is Leaf Mold based and I bring the fungi in that way, but I should also point out that I'm not trying to max every last thing out. My goals are to grow enough bud to meet my needs in an organic way using only nutes I can grow myself in my backyard, and my needs aren't that big.

scottreid1966 said:
BTW> When does stretch stop? At flowering?
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That depends on what type of plant you grow. Bluter has said he has had sativa plants that stretched for weeks and weeks after the flip to 12/12. It also depends on your lighting. Emilya has a grow going now where she is experimenting with deep red and far red lights coming on just before lights on and then for a little bit after lights out, and I think around mid-day for a bit. That all combined seems to greatly limit stretch.

I grow mostly indicas and my transition period is usually 7-10 days and stretch continues on a bit past that.

Conventional wisdom seems to be 21 days or 3 weeks or so after which you are cleared to do any post stretch defoliating you want to do before the flower phase really ramps up.

scottreid1966 said:
One last question: What is fertigation water?:hmmmm:
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Fertigation = fertilizing + irrigation. Basically means watering your plants with added nutrients rather than just plain water.
 
For the past week or so I've noticed some light spots on some of the leaves of the 'air gap' SIP plant, but it didn't look like what I'm used to seeing with thrips and I've been scoping daily and haven't seen any of the buggers.

Today I found out why. Mites. Those little bastards have found my plant(s). It's been about two and a half months since it was up-potted into my new mix with the IPM meals mixed in, and I haven't seen any issues at all until a week or so ago.

I was wondering how long the meals that were mixed into the mix would keep up their anti-bug properties and it looks like it's about 2 months. I think this was the same plant that had thrips that disappeared after I repotted it into the new mix so I'm hopeful the topdressing will address the issue. If not I'll get back on the whole spray routine. I'll give it a few days and see how things progress.

So I top dressed with my IPM mix which is a combination of crustacean, karanja, and neem meals in equal amounts and will plan to do that monthly which will add some additional IPM mix at about the half-way point of its apparent effectiness. I added it at a rate of 1 teaspoon per gallon of soil.

I'll plan to do a top dressing every 10 days, rotating between my crumble, malted barley and the IPM mix.

The two month period is interesting as that's about the time the first SIP plant started to develop a nitrogen deficiency, so maybe that's about when the mix runs out of gas without additional inputs.

For the past week or so I've fertigated with my FAA fish fertilizer and I'm finally starting to get better color returning to the plant. I guess I can rule out this mix being a "water only" mix which isn't all that surprising since it's not loaded up with a whole bunch of inputs to start. It's actually a bit surprising it has lasted this long.

So, the fish fertilizer seems to be working, but I'd really like to make this work with my crumbles which should be roughly about 2/3rds as nutrient rich as the fish. We'll see if that's enough between top dressing and watering with a JLF version of them.

I think the nitrogen deficiency and bug issues will be a good test of what I hope will be my grow process going forward, but I guess we'll see in the coming weeks.
 
Azimuth said:
For the past week or so I've noticed some light spots on some of the leaves of the 'air gap' SIP plant, but it didn't look like what I'm used to seeing with thrips and I've been scoping daily and haven't seen any of the buggers.

Today I found out why. Mites. Those little bastards have found my plant(s). It's been about two and a half months since it was up-potted into my new mix with the IPM meals mixed in, and I haven't seen any issues at all until a week or so ago.

I was wondering how long the meals that were mixed into the mix would keep up their anti-bug properties and it looks like it's about 2 months. I think this was the same plant that had thrips that disappeared after I repotted it into the new mix so I'm hopeful the topdressing will address the issue. If not I'll get back on the whole spray routine. I'll give it a few days and see how things progress.

So I top dressed with my IPM mix which is a combination of crustacean, karanja, and neem meals in equal amounts and will plan to do that monthly which will add some additional IPM mix at about the half-way point of its apparent effectiness. I added it at a rate of 1 teaspoon per gallon of soil.

I'll plan to do a top dressing every 10 days, rotating between my crumble, malted barley and the IPM mix.

The two month period is interesting as that's about the time the first SIP plant started to develop a nitrogen deficiency, so maybe that's about when the mix runs our of gas without additional inputs.

For the past week or so I've fertigated with my FAA fish fertilizer and I'm finally starting to get better color returning to the plant. I guess I can rule out this mix being a "water only" mix which isn't all that surprising since it's not loaded up with a whole bunch of inputs to start. It's actually a bit surprising it has lasted this long.

So, the fish fertilizer seems to be working, but I'd really like to make this work with my crumbles which should be roughly about 2/3rds as nutrient rich as the fish. We'll see if that's enough between top dressing and watering with a JLF version of them.

I think the nitrogen deficiency and bug issues will be a good test of what I hope will be my grow process going forward, but I guess we'll see in the coming weeks.
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Wow, Azi! So much details about bug issues. Makes me wonder if I should start to prevent as you do.
I just have bugs eating and pputting holes in my big leafs outside. I don't see ant eggs, or bugs that stick around. They just munch a bit and leave the premises.
Should I worry about that?
Cheers!
 
scottreid1966 said:
Wow, Azi! So much details about bug issues. Makes me wonder if I should start to prevent as you do.
I just have bugs eating and pputting holes in my big leafs outside. I don't see ant eggs, or bugs that stick around. They just munch a bit and leave the premises.
Should I worry about that?
Cheers!
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It's interesting that you don't hear more about outdoor growers dealing with pests. Maybe because Mother Nature balances things out with predators. But, since this is a one-shot, high value plant its always advised to be proactive.

But I don't grow outside so the pest issue may be more prevalent than I think.
 
Azimuth said:
JMS - Jadam Microbial Solution


A few of us were having a discussion in @HashGirl 's thread about JMS (Jadam Microbial Solution) which is a key tenant in Jadam. @Bode had said he used it effectively to help with keeping bud rot down on his outdoor grow this year. He also said it made his harvest much more potent.

I posted the following there and thought I'd park it here as well for easy reference:

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The JMS is easy to make if you want to try your hand at this.

I use a bucket (2gal, 5 gal) and suspend a 1 gal paint strainer bag into which I put a mashed up baked potato and some leaf mold soil (although I use worm castings instead, but similar outcomes). Add a hint of sea salt and fill with non-chlorinated water, cover and let it sit near your plants so you cultivate the microbes in the same environment you'll be using the stuff in. In a couple of days you'll get some bubbles that show the microbes are hard at work. At the peak of the bubbles is the peak of the population of what you're cultivating and that's when you use it. Of course your environment will dictate how long that takes so you'll need a few rounds to dial it in.

I think @Bode may use rice instead of the potato.

Think of it this way: every surface of every thing is covered with microbes (good and bad) which compete with each other for real estate. By cultivating and then saturating the surface with the good ones, the bad ones get outcompeted and are diminished.

It's helpful to add a bit of aloe or an organic soap to the spray mix to get it to fully coat the plant.

You can also water it into the soil where it will help break down nutrients and give better tilth to the soil. Good stuff all around.

The LAB is a concentration of a single type of microbe but works in a similar way. And that microbe is known to help digestion (in people too) of organic matter, and is a good health booster for your plants.

You can use it liberally and often. The LABs act like the national guard to restore order, and when there is nothing for them to do they fade away, at least according to Drake on UTube, one of the "guru's" of KNF from Hawaii. Chris Trump, also from Hawaii, has lots of good vids up on how to make the various KNF concoctions.

*****

Thank you, Azi.

Is it sprayed on like Safer's would be (tops and bottoms of leaves)? And, then rinsed off?

*****
Yes to top and bottom of leaves, no to the rinse off. Remember we want to add the goods ones and have them take up residence so the bad ones don't have any space to call their own.

Rinsing them off would clear the battlefield of everything and would set up a new round of "who gets to have dominance."

Since we overwhelm the battlefield with our troops, we want them to stick around and beat back whatever counterattack the less desirables care to mount.

And do the stems and soil surface too. It's pretty easy and cheap to make in quantity, so no use being stingy.

The downside is whatever you don't use starts to degrade so you have to make a fresh batch each time you use it.

And, make sure you dilute it 1:10 with non chlorinated water. It's too strong to use straight up.

Here's Chris Trump's video:.



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Edit: I've had good luck using dried potato flakes in place of the baked potato. I did a bunch of experiments you can read in my signature (shameless plug). It's easier to make in small quantities that way. And, since it gets diluted by 10x, a little goes a long way. (I usually make mine by the quart/liter).
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Hello, Can you use this through flower on your buds? Will it also help prevent WPM?

Thank you for the great post
 
Yes, you can. @Bode uses it outdoors and says it not only helps with combating bud rot but also made his buds more potent.

A few posts down from the one you cite is a scaled down version for gardens. You dilute the mix 10:1 so making a 5 gallon bucket which then scales to 50 gallons for use may be good for a small farm, but it's way too much for most of us.
 
Highya guys,

I don't dilute the microbe solution to use for botrytis deterrant. But I do dilute the solution to apply to the plants. Also, I'm sure it was the microbe solution applied weekly that accounted for increased potency. Happy Smokin'
 
Thanks for that confirmation, @Bode!

It's good stuff for sure. :thumb:
 
Bode said:
Highya guys,

I don't dilute the microbe solution to use for botrytis deterrant. But I do dilute the solution to apply to the plants. Also, I'm sure it was the microbe solution applied weekly that accounted for increased potency. Happy Smokin'
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And, when you say you don't dilute it, that's for foliar application, right? And when you say "dilute the solution to apply to the plants" that's a watering in the soil?
 
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