Pigeons420's Re-Veg/Re-Generation of The Hog

[HunterHunt]

Hehe, Yea I just checked that thread out and went through the whole thing. I dont believe that journal even 1%... If he did grow that with those little LED's you would see them everywhere. Hell I would buy 4 sets and put them in my tents lol.. I only like things that work and work the best. If LED's did that I would have LED's not HID setups. Maybe in the future! =)

 

[OttawaGreen]

If you only like things that work the best I think the time has come to switch to led ;-)

 

[HunterHunt]

HAHA! Ottawa dont get me started on that subject... 80% of the members here look down on me on this subject. I dont buy into all the LED sponsored B.S. that these members post here. I grow cannabis and indeed like the best results and products. Thats why I have HID setups.. Like I tell LED growers when they are ready to step up to the next level go purchase a HID setup. Its only arm sized buds for me! Not these small finger sized buds produced by LED's. =)

 

[OttawaGreen]

Those guys you know are doing it wrong then...
I have never used hid but I used to get 12oz Off two 400hps lights (real draw 490w each for .35gpw) and now I get just over 16oz ( 2 x 260w = 1 Gpw. That is almost three times the yield of hps. One third more yield for 1/2 the power! I would never go back to antique hps again. I think 1.5 Gpw is totally doable just not with hps or hid they are extremely inefficient and perhaps do top out at 1gpw.
HID is for my sports car and motorcycle headlights hehe...

 

[MrRudeSnowman]

Those guys you know are doing it wrong then...
I have never used hid but I used to get 12oz Off two 400hps lights (real draw 490w each for .35gpw) and now I get just over 16oz ( 2 x 260w = 1 Gpw. That is almost three times the yield of hps. One third more yield for 1/2 the power! I would never go back to antique hps again. I think 1.5 Gpw is totally doable just not with hps or hid they are extremely inefficient and perhaps do top out at 1gpw.
HID is for my sports car and motorcycle headlights hehe...

no measurement of this kind can be accurate, since HPS lamps from different manufacturers are working differently and burn out when used. same goes for LED's in some way.

 

[Pigeons420]

HAHA! Ottawa dont get me started on that subject... 80% of the members here look down on me on this subject. I dont buy into all the LED sponsored B.S. that these members post here. I grow cannabis and indeed like the best results and products. Thats why I have HID setups.. Like I tell LED growers when they are ready to step up to the next level go purchase a HID setup. Its only arm sized buds for me! Not these small finger sized buds produced by LED's. =)

Even if you look at OG's journal? Im a jan of Ottawa Green and the shit he does. It's crazy to think though, that the LED hype is BS. They run more efficiently by mere design. And because I've never owned one I don't know how the results would be. But I watch a guy like Ottawa strut his shit and harvest monsters. It's clear they have the upper hand, no?

I've done a lot of homework on the subject because I run a HPS system and I'm looking at switching because of the monthly hydro bill.

Do LED produce more/better weed? I don't know. But I think it's like choosing between a GMC and a Chevy. Different name but the same shit.

At the end of the day. Even if it's because they run more efficiently that's the winner for me.

 

[Weaselcracker]

2 cents worth (okay maybe 1)
My grow is completely self-contained and my HID lights heat the rooms. The heat is controlled by the thermostat which kicks on the fans which bring in cool and fresh air. I won't get into whether or not The LEDs are better or worse
(I'll have to check OG's Journal, because to date I've only seen pretty teeny-weeny little buds from those LEDs as well. But I don't get out much, so my opinion that way doesn't mean much. More importantly - I don't care! I wish all of you happy growing, and the best of buds with whichever is your favorite way to grow). But for my situation now it's the only worthwhile option. And it ain't broke so I ain't fixing it.

 

[HunterHunt]

Those guys you know are doing it wrong then...
I have never used hid but I used to get 12oz Off two 400hps lights (real draw 490w each for .35gpw) and now I get just over 16oz ( 2 x 260w = 1 Gpw. That is almost three times the yield of hps. One third more yield for 1/2 the power! I would never go back to antique hps again. I think 1.5 Gpw is totally doable just not with hps or hid they are extremely inefficient and perhaps do top out at 1gpw.
HID is for my sports car and motorcycle headlights hehe...

Then you were doing something wrong... Show me the buds that you or any LED grower can produce that look like the buds I can grow with HPS in the pic below? I can get 1 gram per watt very easy using my HPS. I can see the journals and the weight is just not there for LED. Thats why so many LED growers chop there plant up so the light can penetrate below the canopy.... Not HPS. I have not one time seen a arm sized cola with LED.. Thats because they cant produce them... Its very simple and pictures and weight dont lie. Any your number may be correct... You might can personally grow more weight with your LED but i can promise you are trimming small ass popcorn buds lol....

Even if you look at OG's journal? Im a jan of Ottawa Green and the shit he does. It's crazy to think though, that the LED hype is BS. They run more efficiently by mere design. And because I've never owned one I don't know how the results would be. But I watch a guy like Ottawa strut his shit and harvest monsters. It's clear they have the upper hand, no?

I've done a lot of homework on the subject because I run a HPS system and I'm looking at switching because of the monthly hydro bill.

Do LED produce more/better weed? I don't know. But I think it's like choosing between a GMC and a Chevy. Different name but the same shit.

At the end of the day. Even if it's because they run more efficiently that's the winner for me.

I dont really know what you mean by harvesting "monsters" but I can assure you the plants in ottawa journals are beautiful but no where close to monsters... Pictures can be deceiving and once those buds are dried properly they will only be the size of a cigarette lighter.... If grown with a HPS his box would be bulging with arm sized colas if done correctly... Please Ottawa no disrespect on my comment your girls are beautiful and we are all going for the same end results.

How do they have the upper hand? HPS complete package was $150 dollars. HPS Produces 2X+ the size buds. HPS penetrates the canopy where no defoliation is needed with faster and better results. With the cool tube my HPS runs 4 degrees hotter than room temp. My 600 Watts HPS runs 30$ a month.

What do you mean monthly hydro bill? With the same draw wattage its the same thing? If you have a 600 watt HPS and drop to a 300 watt LED draw wattage the $30 (for example) might be cut to $15 monthly but you will have half the yield with small airy popcorn buds.. You should purchase one and try it if you are that inclined on LED but since you already have grown with HPS im sure you will see the difference. Many top growers have ditched there new LED setups because they cant produce the same.

This is just my input and what i have experienced and seen on this site.... Many of the top growers have left this site because of the sponsored LED members pushing products that simply dont work... I mean no harm in my post I just want to educate!

Show me buds like this from a LED:.... I promise you cant.

 

[midasone]

Then you were doing something wrong... Show me the buds that you or any LED grower can produce that look like the buds I can grow with HPS in the pic below? I can get 1 gram per watt very easy using my HPS. I can see the journals and the weight is just not there for LED. Thats why so many LED growers chop there plant up so the light can penetrate below the canopy.... Not HPS. I have not one time seen a arm sized cola with LED.. Thats because they cant produce them... Its very simple and pictures and weight dont lie. Any your number may be correct... You might can personally grow more weight with your LED but i can promise you are trimming small ass popcorn buds lol....






I dont really know what you mean by harvesting "monsters" but I can assure you the plants in ottawa journals are beautiful but no where close to monsters... Pictures can be deceiving and once those buds are dried properly they will only be the size of a cigarette lighter.... If grown with a HPS his box would be bulging with arm sized colas if done correctly... Please Ottawa no disrespect on my comment your girls are beautiful and we are all going for the same end results.

How do they have the upper hand? HPS complete package was $150 dollars. HPS Produces 2X+ the size buds. HPS penetrates the canopy where no defoliation is needed with faster and better results. With the cool tube my HPS runs 4 degrees hotter than room temp. My 600 Watts HPS runs 30$ a month.

What do you mean monthly hydro bill? With the same draw wattage its the same thing? If you have a 600 watt HPS and drop to a 300 watt LED draw wattage the $30 (for example) might be cut to $15 monthly but you will have half the yield with small airy popcorn buds.. You should purchase one and try it if you are that inclined on LED but since you already have grown with HPS im sure you will see the difference. Many top growers have ditched there new LED setups because they cant produce the same.

This is just my input and what i have experienced and seen on this site.... Many of the top growers have left this site because of the sponsored LED members pushing products that simply dont work... I mean no harm in my post I just want to educate!

Show me buds like this from a LED:.... I promise you cant.

No disrespect (which is usually followed by some disrespect) Man yall need to ditch those LED's and HPS systems. If you want leg sized colas, yall need to just go cut a hole in your roof and harness the power of 3.86 x 10^26 watts of good ole fashioned SUN power. Then you will pull 10 lbs per plant. Love the reveg though! Wonder how it would work in DWC.

 

[Pigeons420]

Really appreciate the input!!

I can't argue with either one of you because I don't have the knowledge of LED systems that I wish I had.

Most of the evidence I gathered has been from around this website. And I have noticed that many of the top LED growers are sponsored. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It's just difficult to get clean unbiased evidence.

The information you present is welcomed. Because to get honest information about a system of lights I would have to try it myself. And I'm not ready to spend 300$ extra dollars on something new when I already have a complete kit.

My only concern with me current HPS system is that it runs too hot, which leads me to cool my room.

With all that said, you two are some of the first people I have heard from that shit on LED. Everywhere else I hear it's the "new thing" and making ground in the industry.

It's makes sense to me now that when I look at large warehouse like grows why they aren't all strung out with LED?

 

[COgrower]

Let me give my opinion, and it is worth exactly what you are paying for it, I think MH/HPS lights are great especially for large grows. That's why they are used in the industrial warehouses, but the heat issue must be resolved which is more difficult to handle the smaller your grow area. The options were to spend more money on cooling and fans and electricity or use CFLs or LED lighting.

I know that the small space home grower would love to grow arm size buds, but there has to be a trade off with too much heat or enough light. I've seen the LEDs improve and become cheaper over the last 5 years and are at a point that they are a good option for the small space home grower. Will they ever produce the arm size buds of HPS? Maybe someday as the technology matures, but who knows if something else will come along that is better. And of course everyone knows that outdoors in the sun is going to be the best, but not everybody can have the best so we just do what the best is for us in our space.

 

[Pigeons420]

I think you've hit the nail right on the head! Thanks greatly for stopping in CO!

With everything that's been brought up. I might as well keep my HPS system running and look at investing in a cool tube. Heat is my only issue right now. I'm thankful that the outside heat hasn't gotten to hot yet so my indoor temps are still controllable.

I really appreciate you guys throwing your 2 cents in! I could have spent a lot of money for something I didn't really need! I've still got lots to think about

 

[Weaselcracker]

I think we can all agree. We The sun the most !!!

 

[HunterHunt]

lol midasone, so so true about the s! We have a natural light thats hundreds time better than anything inside! And its FREE!

Pigeons420, What kind of HID setup do you have? I use 2 600 watt cooltubes for a area thats onlu 8 feet long and 3 feet wide LOL.. My temps raise 4 degrees in my small two rooms... I understand that HID setups do put off heat but look at the wattage you get. I can promise you that my 600 watt HPS cooltube puts off LESS heat than a 600 watt LED light plain and simple. Because the heat from the LED is exposed to the room unlike the cooltube. Those LED's still get pretty dang hot even though they are LED's.

COgrower, I agree with you but also have to disagree as in my above statement i have 2 very small rooms totaling only 8x3 split in half with two 600 watts. The temps raise only around 4 degrees in my rooms but they will raise around 8 degrees in the hottest part of summer. These temps are very manageable even in small rooms if you use COOLTUBES. I cant imagine a exposed HPS in a small room it would indeed burn our plants up without a split AC unit or some kind of cooling. With my Cooltubes vented outside both connected together I see no additional cooling cost or running that I wouldnt normally have. And if there is its so small I cant notice the difference. To run my two grow rooms only cost me around $40-$60 a month extra. I love it! And I have 1200 watts of HPS power! Im a very small time grower and only grow for personal use. I perfect things and change things daily but im really dialing in on the whole HPS in closet growing.

They say if you want to be the best at something find that person thats the best and has the results that you want and follow them. Look at what they do and use. Well for me I look at the corporate growers and the growers that do this for a living. Sure they have massive warehouses but I can incorporate there techniques in my small rooms and get the best results then thats what im going to do! You dont see LED panels in those warehouses for a reason.... Because their production would go down and they would lose money...

 

[Pigeons420]

I use one 400W HPS uncooled. My grow room area is about 8x5. I love my HPS. I just thought that LED was the next level up

 

[COgrower]

COgrower, I agree with you but also have to disagree as in my above statement i have 2 very small rooms totaling only 8x3 split in half with two 600 watts. The temps raise only around 4 degrees in my rooms but they will raise around 8 degrees in the hottest part of summer. These temps are very manageable even in small rooms if you use COOLTUBES. I cant imagine a exposed HPS in a small room it would indeed burn our plants up without a split AC unit or some kind of cooling. With my Cooltubes vented outside both connected together I see no additional cooling cost or running that I wouldnt normally have. And if there is its so small I cant notice the difference. To run my two grow rooms only cost me around $40-$60 a month extra. I love it! And I have 1200 watts of HPS power! Im a very small time grower and only grow for personal use. I perfect things and change things daily but im really dialing in on the whole HPS in closet growing.

I don't consider your space a small grow, even half you space is nearly double mine and I use a 250 HPS open. Of course 5 years ago when I bought my light the only other option was CFL as LEDs were at least double what they are today with very few results from people who used them. Your extra a month is what my entire grow costs from start to finish and that is plenty for me, but if I had the space I would bump up to a 400 or 600, but then I could have more plants too.

 

[HunterHunt]

I gotcha COgrower... I understand what you are saying on space but you also have to understand that most growers here have at least a 2x4 tent. Its hard to compare your small space to a home grower's space as yours is way smaller than average from what ive seen on this website and in my case a closet. In your case it may be beneficial for you to purchase a LED but my opinion the average home grower given at least a small 2x4 space would be more beneficial to purchase a HID setup. Anything much smaller than a 2x4 space you are only pulling grams out of it not ounces/lbs.

But thats enough with the HID/LED debate though we can go all day on it! Unless Pigeons has any questions of course since its his journal! =)

Im ready to see some HOG PICS!! =)

 

[COgrower]

I gotcha COgrower... I understand what you are saying on space but you also have to understand that most growers here have at least a 2x4 tent. Its hard to compare your small space to a home grower's space as yours is way smaller than average from what ive seen on this website and in my case a closet. In your case it may be beneficial for you to purchase a LED but my opinion the average home grower given at least a small 2x4 space would be more beneficial to purchase a HID setup. Anything much smaller than a 2x4 space you are only pulling grams out of it not ounces/lbs.

But thats enough with the HID/LED debate though we can go all day on it! Unless Pigeons has any questions of course since its his journal! =)

Im ready to see some HOG PICS!! =)

I see we may be comparing apples and pears and I'm not arguing for or against any one being better, it depends on your situation. Whatever works for someone is what is best for them whether it's a CFL in a PC case or 1000w monsters, healthy plants are the goal.

 

[Steviodaddio]

Let me give my opinion, and it is worth exactly what you are paying for it, I think MH/HPS lights are great especially for large grows. That's why they are used in the industrial warehouses, but the heat issue must be resolved which is more difficult to handle the smaller your grow area. The options were to spend more money on cooling and fans and electricity or use CFLs or LED lighting.

I know that the small space home grower would love to grow arm size buds, but there has to be a trade off with too much heat or enough light. I've seen the LEDs improve and become cheaper over the last 5 years and are at a point that they are a good option for the small space home grower. Will they ever produce the arm size buds of HPS? Maybe someday as the technology matures, but who knows if something else will come along that is better. And of course everyone knows that outdoors in the sun is going to be the best, but not everybody can have the best so we just do what the best is for us in our space.

My 350 DSXML Advanced light over 1 large plant is giving me two very large arm sized colas and some pretty decent secondary branches with 2 weeks left of flower . It's already here, just costs too much money for the very high end stuff. I think a Mars could do it but you would have to dedicate one 400-600w for one large plant instead of running 4-6 under one light like many tend to do.

... We have a natural light thats hundreds time better than anything inside! And its FREE!

I understand that HID setups do put off heat but look at the wattage you get. I can promise you that my 600 watt HPS cooltube puts off LESS heat than a 600 watt LED light plain and simple. Because the heat from the LED is exposed to the room unlike the cooltube. Those LED's still get pretty dang hot even though they are LED's.

...

Sure they have massive warehouses but I can incorporate there techniques in my small rooms and get the best results then thats what im going to do! You dont see LED panels in those warehouses for a reason.... Because their production would go down and they would lose money...

I would put a run for your money on 600w of LED light vs 600w HPS cooltube light and the heat comparison. I think you're used to comparing cheaper LEDs without heatsinks and proper ventilation. Although I'm not a fan of almost all LEDs being outsourced to China the expensive ones do really shine when you look at how cool they run. An XML350 at 330 actual watts has virtually no heat and running the two I have side by side, 660w total, I could guarantee it wouldn't raise my room even 2 degrees. There are some high production places moving over to LEDs and I feel in the near future many more will once price per panel decreases. Quality and yield are increasing now that spectrums are being dialed in combined with high quality LEDs (in some panels). I'm not trying to create an argument, I just am lucky enough to have grown with one side by side to HIDs thanks to my brother who gave me 2 on loan to play with. So far I'm sold on quality but cannot justify spending $1,000 a piece for a 2.5x2.5 flowering area per panel.

In my opinion long story short, HIDs are hard to beat for the money even when buying the highest quality ballasts, hoods and bulbs at the highest wattage possible. You will not see a huge jump in quality that could justify spending thousands more for a few panels when HIDs are tried and true for very high quality and yield (counting out every other growing aspect). Given you have a few thousand to invest into LEDs it's a great option but going the cheap route can make you regret it sometimes judging by all the positive and negative reviews on cheaper panels, or cheaper HID setups as well.

If anything Pige I would invest in either a portable AC unit and another 600w or 1000w HID setup. That or a portable AC unit and a 400-600 watt LED unit. Getting the light from LED and HID can't be beat. I'd give the industry a few more years until I made a major switch unless I built my own panels.

 

[OttawaGreen]

Also everyone who says led is too expensive, stop buying the overpriced ones. My eshine lights yield more than my no name hps did and they are only $249 each. It would be cost effective to fill a where house with those, but not with the overpriced brands.

If there is an old farmer who says his horse and wagon does a great job and someone tells you to get one of those new fangled internal combustion pickup trucks. So you say he can't as Lamborghini trucks are too expensive it's not cost effective. then you are just as smart as the guy who says led is too expensive because some dummies spend $1600 on one...
Eshine (and likely Mars though I have no experience with those) are both cost effective as they are cheaper to buy than compatible hps when bulbs are included, and cheaper to operate as well, while producing a higher grams per watt...

Stick to your horses if you like, I'm done preaching ;-)
I was hoping a little controversy would see good info about highest legit gpw but it does not seem to. Oh well I will try and compete with my own numbers each grow. I will be moving same two eshine panels on mover from 2x4 cabinet to 2x6 cabinet - looking forward to yield increase from that.