PeeJay's Perpetual Organic Homebrewed Soil - Stealth Cabinet And Greenhouse Grow

[PeeJay]

Wow that is a difference! I see what you mean now. I was under the impression that buring the stem helps root development since the stem sends out roots once buried.

Adding soil around a long stem is common. People do it all the time. The plant survives. It doesn't do anything to make it grow faster though. It just stabilizes the stem and growing canopy so it doesn't flop over. When you do that it changes the dynamics of the root system. The roots are deeper. With time new roots will grow out of the buried stem. In the mean time you've upset things and caused some stress. If you transplant AND bury the stem at the same time then you are adding two stress factors. It's best to never have to add soil around the stem to keep the plant erect.

 

[B A R]

Maybe I missed something here. Before I purchased a Germination Station I've always tap-rooted then germinated in a cup of soil under 18/6 in my tent with the cup about a ft & 1/2 from the lights. Now that I'm using a space specifically designated for seedlings I need to know how far should the light be before the seed breaks ground.

If you go to work and it hasn't sprouted, just leave the light off. As soon as it's up and shed the seed coat and membrane I go under the lights about two-three inches.

Lights off is from 11pm until 5am. I don't see why I would alter the light schedule. 18/6 has worked in the past.
Should I not be using 18/6 prior to ground break & if 18/6 is fine how far should the light be prior to ground break?

That's the best way I can explain what I'm asking.

 

[CronicHempHog]

some people like to throw stuff like hydroton on the soil
I tried it didn't work for me gnats like to hide in there
Happy Thurweed day Pj

 

[PeeJay]

Hola Chronic. BAR - as I said when you first showed me what you'd done - that is fine. The only thing I would say is that keeping the container under the light BEFORE the first sign of a seed sprouting will increase the evaporation from the soil. It will dry out a little quicker than if you just leave it in the dark or in ambient room lighting. I germinate on top of the refrigerator where its warm and cozy and go 2-3inches as soon as I see the first indication of something moving up through the soil. I have the remote sensor for a thermometer laying across the top of the container of the OG seedling and it reads 80 degrees. Outside the veg box it is 72 degrees.

I really enjoy the White Panther smoke and want to sog it soon. I'm going to start a mother. I have two seeds soaking. I'll do one right under the lights and one at around 8 inches and we can see the difference. I'm also soaking a sage n' sour which is the most sativaish hybrid in my seed bank. It should give an idea of what a more stretchy strain does.

 

[PeeJay]

Getting started. Two White Panther fem seeds and one Sage n' Sour soaking in RO water until they sink. I don't worry if they show a tap root before the go in soil. Pretty much once they sink they're good to go.

While the seeds soak I water-in three 1qt pots with my seedling mix - roughly 60% Sunshine #4, 30% Fox Farm Ocean forest, 10% perlite, and a healthy dose of mixed mycos. I'll hit the pots with RO water a couple of times today while the seeds soak to make sure the medium is saturated. This soil is not mineralized. The fraction of FFOF is plenty of food. Veging plants go about three weeks in this mix no problems. No feeding.

Here is the veg box. It is made from a deck storage locker I picked up for about a hundred bucks on sale, 40"w x 26"d x 24"h. Lighting is 8 x 32w blue spectrum cfl. There are filtered passive intakes in the lower left of the box, and a 4" high velocity fan exhausting on the upper right side. With all eight bulbs on it runs about 10 degrees warmer than ambient room temperature. If I keep the thermostat in the room set to 70 when the lights are on, the box is 80. I need to dig out another splitter and add two more bulbs to the left hand side. I've never used this rig to it's full potential. I want to keep a mother in the middle and seedlings / clones on either end.

As soon as it's time to put the beans in the dirt I'll update.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

I'm reading up Peejay, and will be watching closely on this. ;-) Thanks for the heads up on what you're doing.
And, I have a brand new youngun' tonight, I"m going to put her under the CFL's close as you are describing here. I have plenty of beans to play around with. LOL

 

[PeeJay]

canna. This is a quick an easy experiment. We'll have sound evidence in four or five days.

 

[PeeJay]

After about five hours all the seeds had sunk. I like to use a pencil to make a hole. Note that if you plant too shallow it makes it difficult for the seed coat to shed. A good 1/2 to 3/4" deep works well. The soil is well soaked. I also topped up the pots as the soil settled. I like it right to the top of the pot.

After the seeds were planted I loosely covered the top of the pots with plastic wrap. This helps keep that top inch of soil moist.

The two White Panthers are in the round pots. Sage n' sour in the square. One WP is in the box under light from the start.

The S&S and WP2 are down in the kitchen on top of the fridge. As soon as I see evidence that something is coming up the S&S will go under light at 2-3". WP2 will go under light at 8".

 

[Jimmy6000]

This look's like it's going to be a great demonstration PeeJay.

 

[PeeJay]

Thanks Jimmy. It is nowhere nearly as indepth as your LED test grow. I've been enjoying watching you get it going

 

[Jay233]

Adding soil around a long stem is common. People do it all the time. The plant survives. It doesn't do anything to make it grow faster though. It just stabilizes the stem and growing canopy so it doesn't flop over. When you do that it changes the dynamics of the root system. The roots are deeper. With time new roots will grow out of the buried stem. In the mean time you've upset things and caused some stress. If you transplant AND bury the stem at the same time then you are adding two stress factors. It's best to never have to add soil around the stem to keep the plant erect.

Well said PeeJay...although this method is very common...I am highly against it...there are better methods to support a stretching seedling and moving the light closer corrects the problem in short time

As an arborist I am called to diagnose plant and tree problems on a regular basis...the number 1 problem with plants in a new landscape is them being buried too deep. When the plant is buried too deep it is deprived of oxygen. The stress often leads to many disorders (insect infestation is very common, as well as girdling roots and stunted growth). Although the the plants we grow are able to handle the stress of planting too deep better than woody plants why would we put this unnecessary stress on our plants when there are other solutions and our main goal is to maximize the potential of a few plants. Just my humble opinion.

Seedlings look great PeeJay

 

[Jimmy6000]

Thank's man I am glad you are enjoying it. I just hope I can keep it interesting for everyone.

 

[PeeJay]

Great explanation, Jay. About five years ago my neighbor across the street rented a Bobcat and dug a couple of dozen holes along a whole side of his lot. I have no idea how much the 100 gallon cedar trees he planted in those holes cost him... He buried a bunch of the existing trunk when he did. Within two years everyone of them was dead! He's never pulled them up. Now he has a spectacular hedge of dead highly flamable trees in an area prone to wildfire....

 

[Jay233]

Great explanation, Jay. About five years ago my neighbor across the street rented a Bobcat and dug a couple of dozen holes along a whole side of his lot. I have no idea how much the 100 gallon cedar trees he planted in those holes cost him... He buried a bunch of the existing trunk when he did. Within two years everyone of them was dead! He's never pulled them up. Now he has a spectacular hedge of dead highly flamable trees in an area prone to wildfire....

Ha ha...Yup...sounds right

 

[PeeJay]

warning!!!

Do not put plastic over the top of the pot and then put it under the light at 2-3"!!! After an hour the top of the soil was way too warm. I removed the pot for a bit and misted it with some cool water. It's been back in for half an hour now without the plastic and the soil temperature is fine - roughly the same as the soil in the OG seedling pot.

 

[CronicHempHog]

Happy Freeweed day Pj and a Chronic Weekend to you

 

[B A R]

Hola Chronic. BAR - as I said when you first showed me what you'd done - that is fine. The only thing I would say is that keeping the container under the light BEFORE the first sign of a seed sprouting will increase the evaporation from the soil. It will dry out a little quicker than if you just leave it in the dark or in ambient room lighting. I germinate on top of the refrigerator where its warm and cozy and go 2-3inches as soon as I see the first indication of something moving up through the soil. I have the remote sensor for a thermometer laying across the top of the container of the OG seedling and it reads 80 degrees. Outside the veg box it is 72 degrees.

I really enjoy the White Panther smoke and want to sog it soon. I'm going to start a mother. I have two seeds soaking. I'll do one right under the lights and one at around 8 inches and we can see the difference. I'm also soaking a sage n' sour which is the most sativaish hybrid in my seed bank. It should give an idea of what a more stretchy strain does.

Thanxx PJ.

 

[PeeJay]

Not much to report, of course. I did lightly mist the top of the soil on WP 1 which is already under the lights. The soil on top was dry to the touch. Not an issue for the plastic covered pots on top of the fridge.

I've been reflecting on how I learned to keep the stretch minimal right out of the soil. The first time I started plants I had early stretch problems. And, I had problems with shedding the seed coat and membrane too. It was frustrating! I had to do surgery to remove the seed coat in some cases.

I read tons of journals, even if I don't actually post in them. I learned a few things as I did so, not by asking questions in my thread and getting a bazillion different opinions, but by taking note of information relevant to issues I'd had. What I learned was that the reason I was having problems was I was planting the seeds too shallow. As the germinated seed pushes it's way up through the soil the soil helps pull the seed coat and membrane off the cotyledons. I started planting deeper and it eliminated the problem.

Considering this, I think planting depth influences stretch too. Until the cotyledons open and photosynthesis begins the little plant is relying on the starch stored in the seed for energy. The plant can not use that stored energy for growing leaves until the cotyledons are open. They won't open until the seed coat and membrane are shed. All the energy goes into growing the stem taller and taller - not to producing leaves.

Watching the time lapse Canna posted, you can see the membrane drop off. The plant is already well out of the soil. I'm going to watch these seeds I have going now to see how tall they are when they shed the membrane.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Hey PeeJay,
I learned just recently also about planting that seed deeper. I've had trouble with that shell coming off on a couple of them in the past. I planted deeper and voila! the seedling came up without the shell which is what is supposed to happen. Planting shallower doesn't give it the time and "pull" from the soil it needs to remove the shell. JMO
Totally agree with you there, I will plant deeper on all my seeds now.
Actually, you said the same thing on the "pull". Guess I'm just echoing. LOL

 

[PeeJay]

We looked at Colorado's seedling progression already. How about we look at a new grower who nailed it on the first try. I present Dresney's GDP! First lets look at her lighting setup.

Here she is on day one. Note how short the plant is and how quickly it opened up. She is using a very well drained light soil - 40% worm castings, 30% perlite, 30% vermiculite. I think a light well drained soil is important for seedlings.

Here she is at day 3.

Day 6.

Day 9.

Day 15.

That's what we're all after!