PeeJay's Neophyte Breeding Adventure

[PeeJay]

Witty, your Blue Widow grow is as close to perfect as I've ever seen in a first timer journal. The early growth rates were outstanding and when you introduced nutes you did so prudently. It remains to be seen if you can duplicate that with the Moby Dick and Blueberry. Pay attention to the progression at days 10, 15, 20, etc and compare them to the first one.

Sue also killed it on her first run. She had a lot going on during the second... Still, in my judgement, her main problem on the second run is that she "got too fancy."

She's a wild pony and ya gotta love that. I'm pulling on the reins, but she will always want to run.

In my experience it is much more difficult to advocate prudence and restraint here than expounding "one, two or three miraculous things" that will blow everyone else out of the pond.

Just keep that in mind if you choose to read my drivel.

 

[SweetSue]

I appreciate that you understand me so well PeeJay. We should work well together. I have the highest respect for your brilliance. Just remember that every once in a while you may need to yank those reigns ever so gently. LOL! At least I have no ego to speak of, so you won't have to fight that.

 

[PeeJay]

Soliciting constructive criticism -

I'm not potting directly into my LOS pots to be gentler - I pot into 1 gal pots with a starter soil of 40% perlite, 30% peat moss, 30% compost/super soil blend. Except for a compost tea or Glomus Intracides innoculation, I feed them only water until repotting.

I am also feeding only water this first time through the Clackamas Coot style soil mix. 8 weeks into flower, I'm still happy with the soil.

I'm tryng a 'less is more' approach to nutrition.

I'd like to do some natural pesticide sprays as preventatives to supplement the neem in the soil mix - I don't have a clear idea of effective Integrated Pest Management. I'm doing OK this first round, the soil is suppressing gnats that come in with new starter soil every few weeks. I might need a boost when I start to reuse 2 pots of soil in a few weeks - not sure what that boost should be.

-- -

Constructive criticism welcome. I'm enough of a permaculturist that I will balk at using new soil each grow, other than than I am open to ideas.

Rado, starting from the bottom... I have not messed around with recycling my soil for cannabis. The cannabis is a high value crop and gets special treatment. At the same time, I have NEVER put used cannabis soil into the dumpster! NEVER!

You have a big yard and are doing many things. Spread that used cannabis soil around. Use it for other container plants. Dig it into garden beds. Top dress it around native plants that you want to encourage.. For goodness sake, NEVER throw it away! Think re-purposing, not wasting, and we will be on the same permaculturist page.

It is hard to manage watering for tiny plants in big containers. Use something like 2qt pots for the first three weeks and don't botch the transplant.

In the early lifestage you want the root system to spread out like a plauge. Leaner is better in the soil department. Consider cutting way back on the supersoil/compost fraction in that first three weeks soil. They are just babies. They aren't ready for steak and Bearnaise sauce yet.

 

[Radogast]

Rado, starting from the bottom... I have not messed around with recycling my soil for cannabis. The cannabis is a high value crop and gets special treatment. At the same time, I have NEVER put used cannabis soil into the dumpster! NEVER!

You have a big yard and are doing many things. Spread that used cannabis soil around. Use it for other container plants. Dig it into garden beds. Top dress it around native plants that you want to encourage.. For goodness sake, NEVER throw it away! Think re-purposing, not wasting, and we will be on the same permaculturist page.

It is hard to manage watering for tiny plants in small containers. Use something like 2qt pots for the first three weeks and don't botch the transplant.

In the early lifestage you want the root system to spread out like a plauge. Leaner is better in the soil department. Consider cutting way back on the supersoil/compost fraction in that first three weeks soil. They are just babies. They aren't ready for steak and Bearnaise sauce yet.

I heard what you said... but starting from the bottom ... I'm going to try to persist with the soil until it loses performance. It's something I have to do.

2 qt pots will be a challenge at half my 1 gal size, but it makes sense.
I have run a couple of 1 qt pots made from clear plastic orange juice containers. It's very easy to see the roots massing along he side of the pot. Is the light on the roots that bad? How about if I make some dark sleeves to slip over the clear plastic when not inspecting?

I have done lots of outdoor transplanting from nursery purchases. I do well as long as they have a good root ball. Where I go wrong is in transplanting from 2" six-pack pots before they have a good root ball. That's why I was thinking about using clear starter pots. My goal is to transplant no pot before it's time

Cut WAY back on the starter soil compost - got it! and thank you very much.

 

[PeeJay]

Rado, best practices say no clear pots. However, Reg's extensive clear 2 liter pop bottle experience would seem to indicate that somewhat clear pots are not nearly as bad as some folks think.

The beauty of 1 or 2 quart pots for the first three weeks is that they will fill with roots quite nicely in that time. When you up-can into bigger pots of the LOS soil you won't be adding as much volume of seedling soil to the new container. Does that make sense?

 

[PeeJay]

The morning seedling inspection found 6 of 8 Paki Chitral and 6 of 8 Panama up and at 'em. Not a helmet head in sight. I have to leave for a couple of days so all the baby pots got a little rainwater - the first they've had since planting on Saturday afternoon. I hope they can fend for themselves until I get back on Friday.

Substandard Panama baby picture:

Top of the Sage 'n Sour giving her full attention to the early morning sun:

 

[Lady Cannafan]

We'll watch over them for you PeeJay.

 

[SweetSue]

Top of the Sage 'n Sour giving her full attention to the early morning sun:

This picture is stunning! What exquisite timing you have PeeJay.

 

[Radogast]

Rado, best practices say no clear pots. However, Reg's extensive clear 2 liter pop bottle experience would seem to indicate that somewhat clear pots are not nearly as bad as some folks think.

The beauty of 1 or 2 quart pots for the first three weeks is that they will fill with roots quite nicely in that time. When you up-can into bigger pots of the LOS soil you won't be adding as much volume of seedling soil to the new container. Does that make sense?

It makes sense. I'm not sure I an get the timing right with clones. To take a clone before flower, then early veg in 2 quart, then find an open 10 gal pot in 3-4 weeks for late veg is pretty precise timing in a perpetual grow. With 1 gal, I have more leeway in the timing . With 2 quart, I get more vigorously growing plants.

I'm going to try a few, but I have to plan carefully or I may end up with a strain I like that I have to clone and dump from a 2 quart because the timing was wrong. Can I defoliate and prune in that small a pot and keep the plant vigorous?

 

[PeeJay]

Rado, the best way to keep a small plant for a long time is a combination of topping and more importantly, root pruning. You remove the root ball from the pot and use a serrated knife to trim away a bunch of the rootbound mess - like an inch on all sides and the bottom. Then repot in more soil.

 

[Whitty08]

Witty, your Blue Widow grow is as close to perfect as I've ever seen in a first timer journal. The early growth rates were outstanding and when you introduced nutes you did so prudently. It remains to be seen if you can duplicate that with the Moby Dick and Blueberry. Pay attention to the progression at days 10, 15, 20, etc and compare them to the first one.

Sue also killed it on her first run. She had a lot going on during the second... Still, in my judgement, her main problem on the second run is that she "got too fancy."

She's a wild pony and ya gotta love that. I'm pulling on the reins, but she will always want to run.

In my experience it is much more difficult to advocate prudence and restraint here than expounding "one, two or three miraculous things" that will blow everyone else out of the pond.

Just keep that in mind if you choose to read my drivel.

Thank you very much for the words of praise! Means a lot coming from someone as experienced as you. I'll for sure keep an eye on those dates. Actually coming up to day 10 tomorrow. I had them too far from the light and they are way too spindly. I'm going to have to hold them up until I can get them in the tent. So I think right there I've killed some of my potential yield there.

 

[SoilGirl]

Things won't get nasty in my little corner of 420mag. In general I avoid organic soil threads because they inspire Jihad like fervor. Big plants often do very well in the no-till LOS. Check out Soil Girl.

am I the good example here or the jihadist? A little of both I suppose. Oh gosh PeeJay, missed you, even if you didn't miss my thread's fervor. Catching up, will be caught up soon but I wanna stop on the way.

I'm glad I saw your thoughts PeeJay. I also think the CC mix is heavy and have been using his recipe as more of a guideline. Most recently I've been doing his cubic foot recipe for 10 gallons instead of 7.5, and its been working better than before at the start. I've also been using your seedling mix, then transplanting into the LOS. (Not all of us are scared of transplanting haha - I don't use a SWICK either. However, I do use your flushing method every now and then, whether just to flush or water.) I've done all kinds of soil experiments... a hybrid of your soil and CC's amendments, some Kellogg's soil experiments (like Lester uses), some lighter or heavier than CC's recipes (really, hardly a pot or two of my soil is alike at this point ), I'm even just starting an experiment in organic MG mixed with some of CC's amendments and cow manure. I'm very open minded to soil lol, whatever works out for you.

I really enjoy LOS because I find it a rewarding and uplifting way to grow. Like Sue said there are some out there that put on a clinic in top notch cannabis growing in this soil, that seems to improve with every plant grown in it. I'm also trying to move away from harmful to the planet and person non-renewable ingredients like SPM and perlite and vermiculite -which I remember you warning me about once lol- as a personal choice, and I see lots of personality in all of my plants despite the one size fits all approach - your approach is pretty one size fits all too at face value you know, having the same mixes for seed, veg and flower. It's up to you as a grower to bring versatility to the mix as your plants require, and you help others do that very willingly. Since switching from using only your methods to supplementing them with LOS amendments and moving on to doing CC-like No-tills, my plants have done very well. Also, I ran my no-tills on the cheap until pretty recently. There's some versatility at work here.

Lately I've been spending a lot of money very un prudently though lol. by no means do I tell people they have to spend like me to get similar results though. I've been spoiling myself. Recently I got the BAS IPM kit, including your Dr Oz water LOL - I was Oz'ed, definitely didn't really need coconut water, nor the aloe powder that came with it, I already have a freakin' aloe plant lol. I feed my worms BAS craft blend and yum yum mix and rock dusts, geesh. Not necessary, but makes a good vermicompost. -People can maintain an LOS for minimal cost and effort actually, I've seen it, I've just not represented that very well. :\ what can I do, I like throwing money at things I guess lol, its money right it will make things grow. maybe a next experiment of mine will use strictly dollar bill fed worm castings.

after such success with your soils, I wasn't very quick to discard my guanos and 'PJ soil' amendments or buy into the CC LOS notion that all poo is bad, unless thoroughly composted and re-pooed by worms. I will be mixing more of your soil recipes in the future, and also doing my own experiments with them. CC's mix and LOS style growing can be improved upon no doubt, but so can yours imo, at least for me and my situation, I'm glad to have experimented with different amendments and mixes and techniques. I think LOS and PJ soil can find a balance somewhere in the middle of prudence and long term improvement and be a splendid mix. Your soil is undeniably a great organic mix, your plants are gorgeous. Anyways... my new tent just got here... wow that must be a record. Lol so excited, will catch up later.

 

[PeeJay]

We'll watch over them for you PeeJay.

You do good work. This is what I found when I went out to the greenhouse.

8 Paki Chitral

Errr... 9 Paki Chitral. I found the lost seed. It was not in the cup that I thought it was in. I thought it was in the one with the unsoaked seed I marked with a stick. It is 100% certain that unsoaked seed was the first to break ground.

Also found 8 Panama babies.

They all look good. No helmet heads. They are going to stretch like crazy so don't expect any squat little bushes this time.

The SWICK pots held more water than the non-SWICKed pots - no big surprise.

 

[PeeJay]

maybe a next experiment of mine will use strictly dollar bill fed worm castings.

SG, will you be attending the Bong-a-Thon? That is in your neighborhood, isn't it?

I've been checking out your current journal. That OG re-veg is looking killer! You are having tons of fun and have a happy go lucky attitude that is infectious.

I suppose that I'm a little stodgy and slow to change compared to some folks. There is no doubt that there is room to improve with what I do. Yum-yum is a convenience product that is already mixed. I just use it because I like the name and the packaging.

I'm rethinking the three stage system right now. I'm not sure that I need the veg soil. It may make more sense to bump up the phosphate in flower with occasional drenches of 2-3-1 fishy ferts and 0-5-5 kelp juice. A friend and I mixed up almost a yard of PJ dirt v 2.01 two days ago. He kept enough to pot up 4 x 5 gallon plants in veg soil into 20s for his outside run. I kept 120 gallons for my future use.

That is one of those big snow moving coal shovels in the picture... It's a big pile of dirt!

This batch actually has no guano in it and there was never very much in the old one anyway. Some time this weekend I'll get around to posting whats in this one.

 

[SweetSue]

So, to be clear here, the seed that broke through the surface of the soil solution first was unsoaked and in a pot sitting on a working SWICK.

As only one individual, that has no statistical relevance at all. As the person who introduced the SWICK to the community in its current iteration, I will admit to a teeny bit of pride beginning to swell there.

My own preference with seeds is soak for about one hour and plant. Does that sound like a reasonable approach to you PeeJay? I'm going to mark a stick for depth, to attempt to get some uniformity to the planting process. I don't have access to small pots so I'm going with beer cups. The only concern I have is that the cups are the same depth as the pots they'll end up in, which means when I transplant, the tap root has no where else to go. It that even something to be concerned with? Am I overthinking that?

 

[SweetSue]

SG, will you be attending the Bong-a-Thon? That is in your neighborhood, isn't it?

I've been checking out your current journal. That OG re-veg is looking killer! You are having tons of fun and have a happy go lucky attitude that is infectious.

I suppose that I'm a little stodgy and slow to change compared to some folks. There is no doubt that there is room to improve with what I do. Yum-yum is a convenience product that is already mixed. I just use it because I like the name and the packaging.

I'm rethinking the three stage system right now. I'm not sure that I need the veg soil. It may make more sense to bump up the phosphate in flower with occasional drenches of 2-3-1 fishy ferts and 0-5-5 kelp juice. A friend anhd I mixed up almost a yard of PJ dirt v 2.01 two days ago. He kept enough to pot up 4 x 5 gallon plants in veg soil into 20s for his outside run. I kept 120 gallons for my future use.

That is one of those big snow moving coal shovels in the picture... It's a big pile of dirt!

This batch actually has no guano in it and there was never very much in the old one anyway. Some time this weekend I'll get around to posting whats in this one.

First off, nice pile of dirt. Silly how a picture of a pile of dirt can make you smile like that. Secondly - the bolded section - had to laugh. I bought it on your recommendation, but also because I loved the way it looked and the name was a real attraction as well. I bet they get a lot of sales that way. Good marketing strategies.

May I ask, what has caused you to rethink at this time? Just curious to see the method behind the brilliant madness PeeJay.

 

[PeeJay]

So, to be clear here, the seed that broke through the surface of the soil solution first was unsoaked and in a pot sitting on a working SWICK.

No Sue. The first one to break ground was the one with a stick in it that marked the pot that had the unsoaked seed in it. It wasn't in a SWICK. I didn't notice any difference in how quickly seeds sprouted between the SWICK and unSWICKed pots. 12 of 16 were up when I left (about 4 days after being sowed.) They all did their thing quickly. Even the SWICK plants got a watering before I left. Nobody has been watered since. I won't be giving the unSWICKed plants any today. Maybe tomorrow.

Marking a stick is a good idea. Not sure what to say about the tap root thing. Grow in bigger pots? Honestly the tap root thing is no biggie. After three weeks in a cup you will have a nice root mass and won't even be able to identify the original single tap root anymore.

I soak the seeds for a couple of hours - don't time it. I don't wait until they all sink or anything.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

.... I don't wait until they all sink or anything.

LOL, old habits can change. If I don't need to wait for them to sink, then next time I'll just soak for a couple hours or so.
Anything to get those babies up sooner is fine with me.

 

[SweetSue]

Ok, and thanks. Mixing up my seedling soil this morning. I want it about 25% more aeration?? or should I try for a bit more? I was going to eyeball it in the end anyway. I'm fairly certain I know what I'm shooting for. The HB soil germinates like it's on steroids PeeJay. It's almost as if the seedlings spring right up at attention. LOL! What I'm mixing today is for the LOS seeds.

 

[PeeJay]

Sounds about right, Sue. As far as not making a special flower soil I've just noticed that both last summer and this summer I potted up into flower soil way sooner than I theoretically should have and the plants seem to like the flower formula just fine evn when they were in it a month or more before they started flowering. Nothing major. The new batch of soil is sort of a hybrid and has the soft rock phosphate in it but no high phosphate guano.

Yeah, the babies are going to stretch like mad. They won't even see direct sun until noon - ha ha. You can see their light situation at 10:00 this morning. The big plants gobble up all the morning light. Greedy pigs.