Gee64
Well-Known Member
Wow nice Colas! They will be really nice when they fill right out
Panama x Malawi - Probiotic & Organic Indoor Soil Grow
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- #22
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
One of these days I'm going to actually plan to do a scrog from the start and train the plants right for it. This net isn't really stiff enough to create the kind of screen-of-green effect, but the trellising effect is still capable of getting the canopy fairly even. I just wonder if I would have been better off leaving some more of the growth that was underneath the canopy to grow since there was more light penetration than with a traditional screen-of-green setup, but on the other hand I don't really know how much these colas are going to fill out and shad out the under-growth. Not to mention, I've always had the experience in the past of removing lower growth in order to really plump the tops up, and the times I haven't really adhered to that technique I've gotten fairly fluffy tops.
My clones seem to be taking to their new pots after replanting them. The mix that I planted into was just way, way, way too rich. Initially I mixed up...
33% Sunshine Mix #4 ( like 70% peat moss, 30% perlite, lime and wetting agent )
33% EWC
33% Perlite
8-9 cups of Bio-Live
2 1/2 cups of Neem Seed Meal
into 18 gallons
I screwed up reading the directions on the neem seed meal box and I was supposed to only use 1/4 - 1/2 cup per cubic feet! I mean most people reccomend like 1/2 cup to 1 cup per cubic foot so I was pretty far over the recommendation and those clones definitely showed it.
My flowering plants are into 50% that mix, but then also 50% of another mixture of Sunshine, EWC and Perlite I mixed that was probably closer to 25% Sunshine, 25% EWC and 50% perlite. Maybe 30/30/40, but either way, a whole bunch of perlite.
So okay I had the 25/25/50 mix and the 33/33/33 mix with the 8-9 cups of Bio-Live and 2 1/2 cups of Neem Seed Meal. I made a 10 gallon mix similar to what I'm flowering with, so 5 gallons of the 25/25/50 and 5 gallons of the 33/33/33+Amendments. That gave me about half a tote full of soil, so I said, "You know, I'm still at the minimum recommended level of Bio-Live, so I'm going to cut this again," and added some of the 25/25/50 mix up until that was all 50/50.... Okay following the math so far?
So now I've cut the amount of Bio-Live and Neem Seed Meal down from that hot mix by half, and then half again, so it should ~2 cups of Bio-Live and ~1/4 cups of Neem Seed Meal for 18 gallons.
Okay, so... The ratios of Sunshine Mix #4, EWC and Perlite, going to try to figure that out. So... I initially had 5 gallons of my 25/25/50 mix so that means 2.5 gallons. Then I had 5 gallons of the 33/33/33 mix, so that means 1.65 gallons of perlite. 2.5 + 1.65 = 4.15.
Okay, so then I added 8 more gllaons of my 33/33/33 mix. So that would be 2.64 more gallons of perlite to the 4.15, so 6.79 out of 18 gallons... = .377, * 100 means 37.7% perlite. Since the rest of my mixture is equal parts Sunshine Mix #4 and EWC, that means...
31.5% Sunshine Mix #4
31.5% EWC
37.7% Perlite
Now of course there's a problem with that estimate... The Sunshine Mix #4 is only 60-70% peat moss, meaning it's about 30-40% perlite. Okay, well 6.79 of those 18 gallons was my Super Coarse perlite, so that leaves 11.21 gallons that's 50/50 SM4 and EWC so 5.6 gallons SM4....
If SM4 is 30-40% perlite... Well going by my eye, I'd say it's a lot closer to 30% so I'd say about 1.8 gallons of the SM4 is actually perlite meaning 6.79 + 1.848 = 8.638 gallons of the 18 are perlite. Then that leaves 70% of peat moss or about 3.92 gallons.
So
3.92 gallons of peat moss
8.638 gallons of perlite
= 12.558
18 gallons - 12 .558 gallons = 5.442 gallons of EWC
And the end result is....
Me ordering Clackamas Coot's nute pack and starting over. Haha j/k
So end ratios out of 18 gallons as close as I can calculate.
22% Peat Moss
*48% Perlite
30% EWC
(*of course this is counting only perlite as the rest of the 30% that's not listed as peat moss in Sunshine's ingredient so who knows how much of this volume is lime and wetting agent as well as perlite)
*takes a bong rip*
Okay that was way too much math to figure this out, but at least it's done now. If any of you guys like math and spotted any errors let me know. I don't really know what I ought to do with this mix down the line because I really hate to throw it out given I spent money on it and all, but I'm questioning using the Sunshine Mix #4 as a base now that I've priced some way less expensive legitimate peat moss. Not to mention I have no idea what they're using for their wetting agent.
So for those just casually following along, that means I now have two mixes...
18 gallons of 20%/50%/30% Peat/Perlite/EWC along with ~2 cups of Down to Earth Bio-Live and ~1/4 cups of Down to Earth Neem Seed Meal.
Plus the original 33%/33%/33% mix that started at 18 gallons and with 4x the above amendments.
I replanted the clones into the 20/50/30 mix with the 4x diluted amendments and I'm just waiting to see how they recover. Meanwhile, the flowering plants are in that mix that was only diluted 2x and so I'm hoping they stay doing well.
My clones seem to be taking to their new pots after replanting them. The mix that I planted into was just way, way, way too rich. Initially I mixed up...
33% Sunshine Mix #4 ( like 70% peat moss, 30% perlite, lime and wetting agent )
33% EWC
33% Perlite
8-9 cups of Bio-Live
2 1/2 cups of Neem Seed Meal
into 18 gallons
I screwed up reading the directions on the neem seed meal box and I was supposed to only use 1/4 - 1/2 cup per cubic feet! I mean most people reccomend like 1/2 cup to 1 cup per cubic foot so I was pretty far over the recommendation and those clones definitely showed it.
My flowering plants are into 50% that mix, but then also 50% of another mixture of Sunshine, EWC and Perlite I mixed that was probably closer to 25% Sunshine, 25% EWC and 50% perlite. Maybe 30/30/40, but either way, a whole bunch of perlite.
So okay I had the 25/25/50 mix and the 33/33/33 mix with the 8-9 cups of Bio-Live and 2 1/2 cups of Neem Seed Meal. I made a 10 gallon mix similar to what I'm flowering with, so 5 gallons of the 25/25/50 and 5 gallons of the 33/33/33+Amendments. That gave me about half a tote full of soil, so I said, "You know, I'm still at the minimum recommended level of Bio-Live, so I'm going to cut this again," and added some of the 25/25/50 mix up until that was all 50/50.... Okay following the math so far?
So now I've cut the amount of Bio-Live and Neem Seed Meal down from that hot mix by half, and then half again, so it should ~2 cups of Bio-Live and ~1/4 cups of Neem Seed Meal for 18 gallons.
Okay, so... The ratios of Sunshine Mix #4, EWC and Perlite, going to try to figure that out. So... I initially had 5 gallons of my 25/25/50 mix so that means 2.5 gallons. Then I had 5 gallons of the 33/33/33 mix, so that means 1.65 gallons of perlite. 2.5 + 1.65 = 4.15.
Okay, so then I added 8 more gllaons of my 33/33/33 mix. So that would be 2.64 more gallons of perlite to the 4.15, so 6.79 out of 18 gallons... = .377, * 100 means 37.7% perlite. Since the rest of my mixture is equal parts Sunshine Mix #4 and EWC, that means...
31.5% Sunshine Mix #4
31.5% EWC
37.7% Perlite
Now of course there's a problem with that estimate... The Sunshine Mix #4 is only 60-70% peat moss, meaning it's about 30-40% perlite. Okay, well 6.79 of those 18 gallons was my Super Coarse perlite, so that leaves 11.21 gallons that's 50/50 SM4 and EWC so 5.6 gallons SM4....
If SM4 is 30-40% perlite... Well going by my eye, I'd say it's a lot closer to 30% so I'd say about 1.8 gallons of the SM4 is actually perlite meaning 6.79 + 1.848 = 8.638 gallons of the 18 are perlite. Then that leaves 70% of peat moss or about 3.92 gallons.
So
3.92 gallons of peat moss
8.638 gallons of perlite
= 12.558
18 gallons - 12 .558 gallons = 5.442 gallons of EWC
And the end result is....
Me ordering Clackamas Coot's nute pack and starting over. Haha j/k
So end ratios out of 18 gallons as close as I can calculate.
22% Peat Moss
*48% Perlite
30% EWC
(*of course this is counting only perlite as the rest of the 30% that's not listed as peat moss in Sunshine's ingredient so who knows how much of this volume is lime and wetting agent as well as perlite)
*takes a bong rip*
Okay that was way too much math to figure this out, but at least it's done now. If any of you guys like math and spotted any errors let me know. I don't really know what I ought to do with this mix down the line because I really hate to throw it out given I spent money on it and all, but I'm questioning using the Sunshine Mix #4 as a base now that I've priced some way less expensive legitimate peat moss. Not to mention I have no idea what they're using for their wetting agent.
So for those just casually following along, that means I now have two mixes...
18 gallons of 20%/50%/30% Peat/Perlite/EWC along with ~2 cups of Down to Earth Bio-Live and ~1/4 cups of Down to Earth Neem Seed Meal.
Plus the original 33%/33%/33% mix that started at 18 gallons and with 4x the above amendments.
I replanted the clones into the 20/50/30 mix with the 4x diluted amendments and I'm just waiting to see how they recover. Meanwhile, the flowering plants are in that mix that was only diluted 2x and so I'm hoping they stay doing well.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Sorry i was distracted Fert....could you say that again please...
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- #24
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Lol actually looking back at the neem seed meal box and then at what I added, I'm so confused if I did add too much or not. Says 1/4-1/2 cup per gallon, so I added 2 cups for 18 gallons, so that would put me quite under but I don't even know anymore.
Math might be a universal language, but I also speak "Burnt Plant" and those things were telling me "Too much!"
Soon I will have the funds to ship this off for a soil test to see what really needs to happen with it. Part of me now worries, "Wait did I just cut it too much," but I think between the EWC and amendments it should be good.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
A cut to much isnt too bad you can always boost with a top dress and some feedings. Too hot is not good. Now watch... you will have created the absolute perfecr "Unicorn" mix but lost the recipe
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- #26
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Heh yeah that's why I was trying so hard to figure out the ratios on these ingredients, especially if I want to replace the Sunshine Mix #4 with some stuff later on. I have seen some 4 cu ft bales of peat moss for $10, plus some Down to Earth oyster shell and some yucca extract would probably only be $10 more than the SM4 which is like $25 for a compressed 2.2 cu ft bale that you have to mix up to 4 cu ft.
I'm going to wait until I get it tested and see what it may or may not need, but these plants were their own little analyzers...
They're planted pretty shallow in these containers because I've never really transplanted plants the way I had to. I literally pulled them out of the solo cups, kind of "pinched" the soil off the roots for lack of a better way to describe it, and then plopped them into a hole in the 1 gallon containers, but I didn't really think to fill them up to the top first and instead kind of held the plants there and backfilled in. I'm just going to wait until they grow up a bit and fill in the rest of the pot and hope they root in some more, but generally speaking whenever I do that, the top half of the soil that I added after-the-fact never gets rooted into. So as usually I kinda screwed that up!
But anyway, there's 2x clones of my Panama x Malawi #1, #2, #3 and #5. Why no #4? Re: me screwing up. I pruned too many branches off of it before I took cuts for each. But at least it seems very similar to #5, and #3. #1 and #2 seem a little different but it's hard to put my finger on how. A little lankier, the leaves curl under, I don't think they're as heavy feeders. Must be more on the Malawi side than the Panama since the Panama is supposed to be a heavy feeder.
I also have 2x clones of this Platinum Girl Scout Cookies x Cherry OG, which I'm going to start calling Maddog for brevity, plus because this phenotype smells like straight dog doo, so I could see why this dog would be mad. Actually a buddy of mine asked that I name it for his uncle, and he kind of mentored me into this whole growing thing so it seemed appropriate.
Anyway, so I wanna do something with that to actually stabilize it and make it a legitimate strain, so I need to make an S1 crop of it against itself. As for the Panama x Malawi, I'm probably going to wait until I see which one I like, then take the 2x clones that I liked from that and keep them in my breeding/veg tent and reverse one with CS and seed-crop the other. Then I'll take all the other Panama x Malawi cuts that didn't quite make the "best" cut and flower them long with the two other Maddog clones. I'll reverse one of the Maddogs, and I'm not sure if I'll try to do an open pollination or just selectively pollinate buds of the Panama x Malawi but I'll have some Panama x Malawi x Maddog S1s, and then also some Maddog x Maddog S1s to start the stabilization.
I took my Blackberry Kush pollen out of the freezer and I pollinated one of the Maddog buds, and I think I can make out some curled pistills so I think it took. Blackberry Kush x Maddog will be mighty interesting.
Some finished Maddog..
I'm going to wait until I get it tested and see what it may or may not need, but these plants were their own little analyzers...
They're planted pretty shallow in these containers because I've never really transplanted plants the way I had to. I literally pulled them out of the solo cups, kind of "pinched" the soil off the roots for lack of a better way to describe it, and then plopped them into a hole in the 1 gallon containers, but I didn't really think to fill them up to the top first and instead kind of held the plants there and backfilled in. I'm just going to wait until they grow up a bit and fill in the rest of the pot and hope they root in some more, but generally speaking whenever I do that, the top half of the soil that I added after-the-fact never gets rooted into. So as usually I kinda screwed that up!
But anyway, there's 2x clones of my Panama x Malawi #1, #2, #3 and #5. Why no #4? Re: me screwing up. I pruned too many branches off of it before I took cuts for each. But at least it seems very similar to #5, and #3. #1 and #2 seem a little different but it's hard to put my finger on how. A little lankier, the leaves curl under, I don't think they're as heavy feeders. Must be more on the Malawi side than the Panama since the Panama is supposed to be a heavy feeder.
I also have 2x clones of this Platinum Girl Scout Cookies x Cherry OG, which I'm going to start calling Maddog for brevity, plus because this phenotype smells like straight dog doo, so I could see why this dog would be mad. Actually a buddy of mine asked that I name it for his uncle, and he kind of mentored me into this whole growing thing so it seemed appropriate.
Anyway, so I wanna do something with that to actually stabilize it and make it a legitimate strain, so I need to make an S1 crop of it against itself. As for the Panama x Malawi, I'm probably going to wait until I see which one I like, then take the 2x clones that I liked from that and keep them in my breeding/veg tent and reverse one with CS and seed-crop the other. Then I'll take all the other Panama x Malawi cuts that didn't quite make the "best" cut and flower them long with the two other Maddog clones. I'll reverse one of the Maddogs, and I'm not sure if I'll try to do an open pollination or just selectively pollinate buds of the Panama x Malawi but I'll have some Panama x Malawi x Maddog S1s, and then also some Maddog x Maddog S1s to start the stabilization.
I took my Blackberry Kush pollen out of the freezer and I pollinated one of the Maddog buds, and I think I can make out some curled pistills so I think it took. Blackberry Kush x Maddog will be mighty interesting.
Some finished Maddog..
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Nice bud!
- Thread starter
- #28
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Officially 30 days into flower...
Bad news is I spotted a thrip
Bad news is I spotted a thrip
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Wow they look nice! Its a very cool looking strain.
- Thread starter
- #30
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Yeah it's starting to look mighty enticing! I like how much some of these colas have plumped up for only 4 weeks, and the frost is staring to set 
Gee64
Well-Known Member
That thing is beutiful
- Thread starter
- #32
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Yeah they're starting to look real sexy, and I think maybe I'll get lucky and they won't have such an excessive flower time as I feared. I must have mistaken them for something else on ACE's site but I looked again and they estimate 11-12 weeks, I was thinking they were more like 14-16 weeks. Though I know you still wanna put a week or two onto a breeder's estimates, so I'm still probably looking at something like 14-16 actual weeks but that's butter than 14-16 +2 (so really 16-18). Still it looks like I won't be harvesting until next year.
My only worry now is this little thrip I found, but I haven't been able to find any other leaves with similar looking damage, it was just this one small leaf hanging out by the fan that looked a little crummy. I need to break it down and clean it, but it's all the way in the back corner where I really can't get to now thanks to the trellis. I'm just going to cross my finger that I can keep them at pay spraying soapy water. Thankfully my tent is usually at the right humidity level that spraying doesn't really matter even this deep into flower, but I won't be as confident doing that much longer. I already soaked some of the larger colas until they fell over.
I'm brewing up some neem seed to apply as a root drench. I ran out of neem oil. These were treated with neem oil, maybe not a large enough dose, but it's concerning to find a thrip considering that. I'll probably buy some spinosad pretty soon too just to vary up the IPM because having neem in the soil as well, I fear I may have inadvertantly bred some neem resistant thrips. It will be the first time in 3 years I had to use a different pesticide than neem though, so I feel like that's a good track record.
Still I'm kind of irritating there's bugs on these. I worry about spraying too much more this late in flower, I don't really know how resistant to powdery mildew this strain is. Thankfully my tent is usually in <30% RH so they dry out pretty quickly, I just know I totally soaked these coals today, they were falling over on each other.
My only worry now is this little thrip I found, but I haven't been able to find any other leaves with similar looking damage, it was just this one small leaf hanging out by the fan that looked a little crummy. I need to break it down and clean it, but it's all the way in the back corner where I really can't get to now thanks to the trellis. I'm just going to cross my finger that I can keep them at pay spraying soapy water. Thankfully my tent is usually at the right humidity level that spraying doesn't really matter even this deep into flower, but I won't be as confident doing that much longer. I already soaked some of the larger colas until they fell over.
I'm brewing up some neem seed to apply as a root drench. I ran out of neem oil. These were treated with neem oil, maybe not a large enough dose, but it's concerning to find a thrip considering that. I'll probably buy some spinosad pretty soon too just to vary up the IPM because having neem in the soil as well, I fear I may have inadvertantly bred some neem resistant thrips. It will be the first time in 3 years I had to use a different pesticide than neem though, so I feel like that's a good track record.
Still I'm kind of irritating there's bugs on these. I worry about spraying too much more this late in flower, I don't really know how resistant to powdery mildew this strain is. Thankfully my tent is usually in <30% RH so they dry out pretty quickly, I just know I totally soaked these coals today, they were falling over on each other.
- Thread starter
- #33
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Well, I got my neem meal tea brewed up. Boy this stuff stinks! It says just to let it steep and agitate it every now and then, but I bubbled it out because I don't really want any of the extra nitrogen, so hopefully that helped gas it off as N2--not that I know if that is possible scientifically or anything. But I'm just after the azadirachtin. There should have been plenty of it in the soil from all the neem meal I put in there, not to mention the Einstein Oil neem oil I used earlier, but they've been growing so fast that it's possible they're just not getting enough of it to really have that systemic effect on the thrips. I'm not going to spray it on my buds though because if this stuff tastes as bad as it smells I don't know if it will wear off by the time I'm done flowering and if it will effect the taste.
I might give a few more soapy water sprays, but the buds are starting to stack on so I don't want to risk the mold for too long here. I will probably start back-building these pretty soon. I'm getting pretty happy, I'm starting to see less open space in this canopy. This might be the best I've filled out this tent so far.
The buds are getting pretty developed, soon will be time to back-build.
The clones are starting to look better, I noticed they're reveg'ing. This Maddog is a strong strain...
I might give a few more soapy water sprays, but the buds are starting to stack on so I don't want to risk the mold for too long here. I will probably start back-building these pretty soon. I'm getting pretty happy, I'm starting to see less open space in this canopy. This might be the best I've filled out this tent so far.
The buds are getting pretty developed, soon will be time to back-build.
The clones are starting to look better, I noticed they're reveg'ing. This Maddog is a strong strain...
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Thats a great canopy spread! Tons of light to each cola. Those will be massive when they are done! You gonna love this!
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- #35
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Hoping back-building will make them even bigger. If only I had a time machine.
- Thread starter
- #36
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
The clones look perkier, they're definitely reveg'ing. I'm not really sure what do with them, because I don't want to stress them out more now that they're recovering, but I don't want them to get too big before I start doing some top'ing. I want to get an early start training this time.
Buds are starting to get some red in their pistils, I should do some back-building soon if I want to try it. This is right at the start of week 5 so I'm guessing this will probably be more like a 10-11 week finish.
Buds are starting to get some red in their pistils, I should do some back-building soon if I want to try it. This is right at the start of week 5 so I'm guessing this will probably be more like a 10-11 week finish.
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- #37
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Well week 5 officially came and past, 37 days flowering now. I may have chose to backbuild these a little prematurely since I see this strain listed as an 80-85 day strain in most places and backbuilding is usually best done a little after mid-flower, but we'll see what happens.
Before and After
Didn't really sacrifice too much...
Meanwhile I'm pretty happy with how big things are looking at 37 days if this is a 80 day strain.
Gettin' some nice frost on the little satelite buds too...
The Maddog is looking pretty nice too.. Not sure if this bud is pregnant but crossing my fingers.
Before and After
Didn't really sacrifice too much...
Meanwhile I'm pretty happy with how big things are looking at 37 days if this is a 80 day strain.
Gettin' some nice frost on the little satelite buds too...
The Maddog is looking pretty nice too.. Not sure if this bud is pregnant but crossing my fingers.
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- #38
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
Day 40! Got some close-ups of the buds. About mid-way through flower now, maybe a little further along on the Maddog, not sure about that one.
Bud development...
Bud development...
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Very Nice!
- Thread starter
- #40
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
These Maddogs got monster-cropped from their reveg
It kind of took me a while to figure out what I was seeing there. Those are indeed trichomes on the stems. I'm pretty sure that the "bud" basically disintergrated and began forming all of those branching and that's why there's trichomes allllll over them, and why the calyxes are all over even though it's not technically flowering. It's kind of like the bud "sprawled" out. It makes a lot of sense if you consider it in terms of plant anatomy, where the buds are basically just a lot of tightly packed meristems, so when it reverts to vegetative then the primary growth changes from plumping up the calyxes to elongating the stems. Science!
It kind of took me a while to figure out what I was seeing there. Those are indeed trichomes on the stems. I'm pretty sure that the "bud" basically disintergrated and began forming all of those branching and that's why there's trichomes allllll over them, and why the calyxes are all over even though it's not technically flowering. It's kind of like the bud "sprawled" out. It makes a lot of sense if you consider it in terms of plant anatomy, where the buds are basically just a lot of tightly packed meristems, so when it reverts to vegetative then the primary growth changes from plumping up the calyxes to elongating the stems. Science!