Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[CBDMed]

@Emilya , thank you very much. Your help is truly a blessing.

It seems like the informal consensus on the internet might be that other sugars will work to power the microbes, but that the extra goodies in the molasses are super-extra-good for the plants.
(So I ordered the molasses, and we will use it for cooking [and maybe some nips-of-of-the-bottle also], when it comes in.)

It is very gratifying seeing my words printed out and being used to such good effect. Thank you for that.

And you are most welcome! Thank you. This seems like such a simple, powerful technique! You seem to have changed the way I will think about growing pot forever.

 

[CBDMed]

@Emilya , may I also ask your help about a future outdoor-grow-space final-pot-size question?
(I don't want to get too far ahead, but here I have to order everything weeks or months ahead, to be sure it will be here in time for when I need it.)

You said in your article that you get the plants to drink maybe an extra 30% more water than they do with standard growing techniques.

>> Using this method, I have seen a steady increase in the amount of water needed to get to run off throughout the grow and by the end, plants watered in this way use approximately 30% more water than is seen using standard watering techniques.

Ok, long story short, when I first started growing, I was using 5G pots indoors under LEDs.
I learned over time that I prefer indica hybrids, and that I like to top them, and veg them 4 months before turning them over into flower. (Because it seems like a nice size.)
Then when I moved the grow to an outdoor greenhouse in a cool maritime climate (maybe 75F daily highs) the 5Gs would be so dry at the end of the day that they would be wilting a little, so I had to give them a little extra drink at the end of the day--but the 7G pots would never be wilty.

Here the climate is very similar.
I was originally thinking about growing indoors under LEDs, but the security guard said I should grow on the roof (and I wanted to get along, so I wanted to do what he said! But I loved being told to grow my cannabis outdoors, on the roof!) .
The only thing is, they have really strong night security lights, so that is why I am growing autos right now--but if I can solve the security light situation (maybe with a shade-cloth cover at my next location), I want to go back to growing photoperiods.

So my question is, if the 5G pots I used to use were too small, and the 7G pots were just right, but the girls will drink maybe 30% MORE water with your technique, then do I want to try 10G final pots for the grows, vegging them 4 months?

And then.... what if I veg them for 6 months before turning them over into flower??
Because I am trying to "do as the Colombians do" to the extent that I can, and I think here they start growing cannabis in the spring by adding 2-3 hours of extra light a day (and it does not have to be a lot of light. It just has to interrupt the dark cycle).
Then they take away the extra light around the time of the fall equinox, and that triggers them into flower about the natural time.
So they pay only pennies for electricity, and they get a full growing season--but I wonder what size the pots would have to be.
(15G and another up-pot? 20G and an up-pot? I can get 5G plastic pots here.)

It feels like I cannot say thank you enough, for your help.

 

[bluter]

much much better. you're looking good with em's help.
i still recommend getting used to growing without that soil probe. after getting a couple under your belt i'm certain you'll find you don't need it.

 

[CBDMed]

much much better. you're looking good with em's help.
i still recommend getting used to growing without that soil probe. after getting a couple under your belt i'm certain you'll find you don't need it.

Thanks, Bluter.
It is like a big light switch went on yesterday. (Did something ever sit you down, and you felt completely couchlock-stoned for a while, and you had not had anything???)
I think I finally got what @Emilya is talking about. It seems really simple, and extremely powerful.
I will probably stick real tight with Em's instructions for now (and follow the letter), but after I get the hang of it, then I can check.

But I was really, really surprised that the plant in the boutique soil drank more water than the plants in the homemade soil.
(I had thought for sure it would be the other way around.)
I would have surely done the wrong thing if I had not had the water probe, but I only use it for what Em says, which is to see where the top of the water table is. (I don't expect it to do fine adjustments.)
But I will try to keep an open mind. Maybe in a few more grows I won't need the probe?
In the meantime, I am waiting for the postage scale.

I looked at the Solo cups again this morning.
Here is a top view.

I dunno, I think my biggest uncertainty right now is "What does dry look like?"
I think I can still feel a little bit of water weight in the cups, so I will check them again this afternoon, unless Em says to water now (because I am not sure what "dry" is with regards to cannabis).
Here is the biggest girl (and her cup seems the driest of the seven).

Here is the second biggest girl (and her cups seems also a little drier).

Here is the bone-dry cup again, for comparison.

Here is one of the two smallest girls.

And here is the other of the smallest girls.

I think I will check them again this afternoon unless Em says to water.

 

[CBDMed]

Hi @Emilya !
Pretty please with terpenes on top, you have already helped me a ton, but I am really hoping for your thumbs-up or thumbs-down on watering the Solo cups!
I am not sure where the line is on watering the Solo cups.

"To water to runoff, or not to water to runoff... that is the question!" Haha.

I want to make them dry before I water, but I don't want to be stingy with the water (like last time), but I am not sure where the line is.
Sorry, I won't have a postal scale for a few weeks (life in Colombia).

It looks like there is some condensation and moisture in the bottom 60%.
However, it also looks like the top 40% is dry-dry.
Do I water to runoff now?
Or, alternately, if I do not water to runoff now, do I do a light watering on the top, so that any spreader roots in the top 40% do not get too dry?

The two on top are the biggest, and their soil seems the driest.
The bottom two or three are the smallest, and their soil still seems a little darker.
THANK YOU!

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi @Emilya !
Pretty please with terpenes on top, you have already helped me a ton, but I am really hoping for your thumbs-up or thumbs-down on watering the Solo cups!
I am not sure where the line is on watering the Solo cups.

"To water to runoff, or not to water to runoff... that is the question!" Haha.

I want to make them dry before I water, but I don't want to be stingy with the water (like last time), but I am not sure where the line is.
Sorry, I won't have a postal scale for a few weeks (life in Colombia).

It looks like there is some condensation and moisture in the bottom 60%.
However, it also looks like the top 40% is dry-dry.
Do I water to runoff now?
Or, alternately, if I do not water to runoff now, do I do a light watering on the top, so that any spreader roots in the top 40% do not get too dry?

The two on top are the biggest, and their soil seems the driest.
The bottom two or three are the smallest, and their soil still seems a little darker.
THANK YOU!

Sorry, I thought I had answered this. On one of my computers is a response that I didn't submit.
The pictures of your roots are not telling me anything. I never look at my roots, so I am not sure what I am seeing, except the roots look pretty light at this point.

You still have not understood my rule on watering. ONLY when the plants are less than a week old, should you be stingy with the water. The ONLY reason you are restricting water early on is if you heavily water a seedling that is not established in the soil (solid in place) it will float around, and you can easily uproot it.

This is where the 3x rule comes in. Look at your plants from above. Draw a circle around the plant that encircles all the leaves. Triple the size of that circle. Does this larger circle touch the edges of the cup? If so, water to runoff.

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya , may I also ask your help about a future outdoor-grow-space final-pot-size question?
(I don't want to get too far ahead, but here I have to order everything weeks or months ahead, to be sure it will be here in time for when I need it.)

You said in your article that you get the plants to drink maybe an extra 30% more water than they do with standard growing techniques.

>> Using this method, I have seen a steady increase in the amount of water needed to get to run off throughout the grow and by the end, plants watered in this way use approximately 30% more water than is seen using standard watering techniques.

Ok, long story short, when I first started growing, I was using 5G pots indoors under LEDs.
I learned over time that I prefer indica hybrids, and that I like to top them, and veg them 4 months before turning them over into flower. (Because it seems like a nice size.)
Then when I moved the grow to an outdoor greenhouse in a cool maritime climate (maybe 75F daily highs) the 5Gs would be so dry at the end of the day that they would be wilting a little, so I had to give them a little extra drink at the end of the day--but the 7G pots would never be wilty.

Here the climate is very similar.
I was originally thinking about growing indoors under LEDs, but the security guard said I should grow on the roof (and I wanted to get along, so I wanted to do what he said! But I loved being told to grow my cannabis outdoors, on the roof!) .
The only thing is, they have really strong night security lights, so that is why I am growing autos right now--but if I can solve the security light situation (maybe with a shade-cloth cover at my next location), I want to go back to growing photoperiods.

So my question is, if the 5G pots I used to use were too small, and the 7G pots were just right, but the girls will drink maybe 30% MORE water with your technique, then do I want to try 10G final pots for the grows, vegging them 4 months?

And then.... what if I veg them for 6 months before turning them over into flower??
Because I am trying to "do as the Colombians do" to the extent that I can, and I think here they start growing cannabis in the spring by adding 2-3 hours of extra light a day (and it does not have to be a lot of light. It just has to interrupt the dark cycle).
Then they take away the extra light around the time of the fall equinox, and that triggers them into flower about the natural time.
So they pay only pennies for electricity, and they get a full growing season--but I wonder what size the pots would have to be.
(15G and another up-pot? 20G and an up-pot? I can get 5G plastic pots here.)

It feels like I cannot say thank you enough, for your help.

The bigger the better, and the less you will be chained to it, having to water every day. Plants can handle the moon and occasional headlights and even momentary bright lights. They can also get annoyed by some of this. You have to judge just how bright and often those lights are, and see if you need a shade filter of some kind. If you are going to veg for 4 months, you want your soil to hold up during that 6 month grow... again, more soil the better.

 

[CBDMed]

Hi @Emilya .
Thank you.

Sorry, I thought I had answered this. On one of my computers is a response that I didn't submit.

It is all good.

The pictures of your roots are not telling me anything. I never look at my roots, so I am not sure what I am seeing, except the roots look pretty light at this point.

Ahhh, that makes sense.

You still have not understood my rule on watering. ONLY when the plants are less than a week old, should you be stingy with the water. The ONLY reason you are restricting water early on is if you heavily water a seedling that is not established in the soil (solid in place) it will float around, and you can easily uproot it.

Ahhh, ok. I will try to remember that.
So, to confirm and make sure I am not misunderstanding things (or messings things up again), if I understand correctly, I should go ahead and water now, since there is no need to be stingy with water after the first week?

This is where the 3x rule comes in. Look at your plants from above. Draw a circle around the plant that encircles all the leaves. Triple the size of that circle. Does this larger circle touch the edges of the cup? If so, water to runoff.

Ok, thank you!
Only, I am not sure how this applies to a second watering (or a re-watering) on the Solo cups.
Because the leaves are way over the rim of the cups now.
Sorry if I am getting it all messed up again.
I don't want to have to sit on my hands again, hahaha.
Thank you.

 

[CBDMed]

The bigger the better, and the less you will be chained to it, having to water every day. Plants can handle the moon and occasional headlights and even momentary bright lights. They can also get annoyed by some of this. You have to judge just how bright and often those lights are, and see if you need a shade filter of some kind. If you are going to veg for 4 months, you want your soil to hold up during that 6 month grow... again, more soil the better.

Cool, thank you!
These are strong night security lights, so that the closed community residential streets and sidewalks are never really that dark, so both the people and the security cameras can see everything (even for old people).
I read you guys talking about that on one thread, and I downloaded some apps, but I have not had time to play with them yet. But if I did, it would be pretty bright night lights. So I think I will need shadecloth.
Thank you very much for the advice on pot size.
Woo-hoo!!
Sorry I have not been able to keep up with your perpetual grow thread. I am looking forward to reading your grow threads as soon as I can get the basics down.
Thanks a million for your help.

 

[CBDMed]

Sorry, probably you use a scale?
I need to read your Perpetual Grow thread, and see how you check the Solo cups.
Hopefully the scale will get here soon.

 

[CBDMed]

PS, oh, and thanks so much for the advice about the larger the pots are, the better!
That's great! That helps a lot.
So, you just keep up-potting them until it takes them a day to drain all of the water, and then when they FORCE you to up-pot them, that is when you do it?
If so, I will get some big 15G pots, because they will probably be in veg half the year.

 

[Emilya Green]

I used to use a scale but as said above, after you practice with it for a while you wont need it.

Uppot when it makes sense and you can see that the roots are working hard. If you see lower fans go yellow, it usually means the plant wants an uppot. The rules don't work every time with every plant. If you see the plant drain the pot in 48 hours one time, it won't hurt to uppot at that point. If you wait too long, the water uptake will slow down again as you reach a point of diminishing return.

Ahhh, ok. I will try to remember that.
So, to confirm and make sure I am not misunderstanding things (or messings things up again), if I understand correctly, I should go ahead and water now, since there is no need to be stingy with water after the first week?

Yes, you should have watered to runoff sometime in the past. Now you need to catch up, so water to runoff and start your first wet/dry cycle.

Only, I am not sure how this applies to a second watering (or a re-watering) on the Solo cups.

The second watering, when they finally get dry again, should again be watering to runoff. From now on, for the rest of the grow, water to runoff once the plant has earned it by drinking down to the 1-2 inch point.

 

[CBDMed]

I used to use a scale but as said above, after you practice with it for a while you wont need it.

Uppot when it makes sense and you can see that the roots are working hard. If you see lower fans go yellow, it usually means the plant wants an uppot. The rules don't work every time with every plant. If you see the plant drain the pot in 48 hours one time, it won't hurt to uppot at that point. If you wait too long, the water uptake will slow down again as you reach a point of diminishing return.

Yes, you should have watered to runoff sometime in the past. Now you need to catch up, so water to runoff and start your first wet/dry cycle.


The second watering, when they finally get dry again, should again be watering to runoff. From now on, for the rest of the grow, water to runoff once the plant has earned it by drinking down to the 1-2 inch point.

Wow.
Fabulous.
Thank you!
I will try to do exactly that.
I hope you have a wonderful weekend.

 

[Emilya Green]

Wow.
Fabulous.
Thank you!
I will try to do exactly that.
I hope you have a wonderful weekend.

you too!

 

[CBDMed]

Hi @Emilya .
I hope you and your family had a good weekend.
I am trying to reflect a lot on what you said, and just trying to follow the steps for now.
I am still reflecting, but I had a question.

I remember that somewhere on the internet I read that autos automatically flower when the roots hit the sides or the bottom of the pot. And then I asked you about it, and you said that no, autos do not flower when the roots hit the sides or the bottom of the pot. (And clearly they do not, because the autos in the Solo cups have not triggered yet.)

So then, the strategy is not to have a bigger pot for an auto, but still you want to create the densest, most compact root ball (even in autos)?
So then, while you might still want a 4 or 5 gallon container for a larger-sized auto sativa (maybe like a Sativa Haze), would a 3 gallon container be more appropriate for an auto with a shorter total growing time (@2+ months)?
Because I am thinking, if I am going to do the wet-dry cycle with the autos until they force me to up-pot, then I cannot see how I will need 5 gallon pots.

Is maybe a 3 gallon pot more appropriate for a short-lived auto?
Thank you.

 

[CBDMed]

Hmmm...
Actually, no need to answer that.
I guess I will know soon enough, from my up-potting adventures.
Hahahaha, stupid question.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hmmm...
Actually, no need to answer that.
I guess I will know soon enough, from my up-potting adventures.
Hahahaha, stupid question.

No such thing as a stupid question amigo. Generally, it is advised to grow an auto in a 3 gallon container, but if you want to experiment with pruning and training her to be bigger than usual, it can be done, and those folks generally tend to put them into larger containers. You can fit more 3's into a given space, and usually bigger yields happen with more plants, not spending extra time making big plants. The reasons for usually going with 3's are for exactly the reasons that you speculated, its usually going to stay in there for a relatively shorter period of time, unless it is a long running strain.

 

[Phytoplankton]

In the meantime you can just use another clear cup with paper bag or something opaque wrapped around it (or even just put a bag or other container around the plant cup) - they wont be in there for long, it doesn't need to be perfect.

Just wrap the outside of the clear cup with duct tape, that will shield the roots from light.

 

[Azimuth]

Just wrap the outside of the clear cup with duct tape, that will shield the roots from light.

Or slide them into the same size, but opaque, version of the same cup.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Or slide them into the same size, but opaque, version of the same cup.

Duct tape is a quick fix in case he didn't have opaque cups. I use the 4 inch opaque nursery pots you get when buying starter veggies and herbs.