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- #81
Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors
- Thread starter CBDMed
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Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
It sounds like you have the concept down... and if you are spraying 3x the diameter, usually by the time the plant is big enough to justify watering the entire container, it is already pretty wet all around from all the spraying. At some point it is just going to make sense to make her dry it out for a while instead of spraying so much water at it.
The solo cup plants would only need to be up-potted when they can drain the water in a day or two.
With the bigger pots, I would do a deeper watering near the plant. There are two sets of roots, the upper, feeder roots, and the lower water seekers. Sounds like you're doing a great job with the uppers but maybe not so much with the lowers.
So water a bit more deeply but don't soak the entire pot, and then let it dry out thoroughly, although you can keep doing a light top watering every three days until the lower roots drain the rest.
With the bigger pots, I would do a deeper watering near the plant. There are two sets of roots, the upper, feeder roots, and the lower water seekers. Sounds like you're doing a great job with the uppers but maybe not so much with the lowers.
So water a bit more deeply but don't soak the entire pot, and then let it dry out thoroughly, although you can keep doing a light top watering every three days until the lower roots drain the rest.
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- #84
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Wow!! Light bulbs coming on!! Thank you very much! I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
- Thread starter
- #85
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Wow, ok! That really helps clarify things a lot! Thank you!
(And I just got my water meter, so now I can do that!)
I hope you have a wonderful weekend!
Good morning my friend, hate to stick my nose in here without reading everything.Ok, so should I just continue the progress report here?
Well, I had to take a two-day trip to somewhere, and I was a little concerned, but I watered everything real good (maybe 4-5 times the normal watering), and got home late last night. When I took a flashlight, I was very happily surprised to see everyone doing much better than I had thought!
Now it is morning, so I inspected again before watering.
There are three Barney's Farm LSD were planted on 4-11 in the doctored-up soil that @Azimuth and @SmokingWings helped me to make up. The moisture probe said there was a little moisture in the top 3-4 inches, and then below that was basically dry, so I gave them maybe double the usual dose of water (20 sprays with the sprayer bottle).
Should I give them even more, so the moisture can reach the bottom of the pot? Because I am not sure this doctored-up soil holds water all that well, compared.
(And is one representative photo good enough here? Because they all look fairly similar.)
Then there is one Delicious Candy that was also planted on 4-11 in the new bagged boutique soil. The top 3-4 inches was reasonably moist, and then below that was still moist going all the way to the bottom of the pot. I gave it a usual watering, trying to spray at about 3x a leaf width. Is that right?
So.... I was not too concerned about the girls I planted on 4-11, but these are seven Sweet Nurse Autos that I planted on 4-19 (10 days ago) in the new boutique bagged soil.
When I left the tops of the cups were still dry, and I was worried about it, so I sprayed maybe a dozen sprayer squirts around the rim, trying to get the soil in the upper part of the cup moist, and said some prayers that they would be alright. (There was no drip-runoff.) And then I had to run.
I had put some black plastic around the first Solo cup, and then held it in place with another Solo cup, as @Emilya and @Sueet advised.
Having been concerned and praying for two days, imagine my surprise when I took them out of the cups this morning, and what to my wondering eyes should appear, but it seems like not only had the moisture evened out, but it looks like I see roots coming all the way to the bottom of the Solo cups?!?!?!?!
Wow!! I did not expect that!! (Is 'stunned' the right word?)
This one is fairly indicative. They all looked like that. (So is one photo good enough?)
I did not give them any water, and I am just guessing they won't need any tomorrow either (but I will check).
I am just guessing I will need to spray some water around the rim the day after tomorrow as @Emilya advised, but I will monitor them for weight and appearance, as @Azimuth said.
And to be complete, this is a top view.
My questions:
1. How much water should I give the three LSD in the doctored-up soil, above? Do I want the moisture to reach the bottom of the pot?
And am I watering wide enough? Or do I want to water even a little further from the stem?
2. I am still waiting for my aquarium air bubbler and air stones to come in (probably 2 more weeks here), so in the meantime I have been giving them some organic liquid root-enhancing fertilizer I brought with me from Chile. And then when the bubbler gets here I will try to ferment either that, or bubble the Bionova Veganics Grow formula, and maybe also try to bubble some dandelions, as @Emilya suggested (and I have to read that thread again).
But is once a week good for the fertilizer? Or what is the ideal fertilizing frequency?
3. Maybe are my eyes playing tricks on me, but are the seven seedlings I planted in the Solo cups on 4-19 doing almost as well as the four I planted in the full-sized containers on 4-11??????
And is that a normal effect of starting in a small pot? Or is that perhaps due to a more vigorous strain, or perhaps some other factor? Because I am having a hard time understanding why they seem so close in size.
And just to comment, I am completely sold on the new boutique fertilizer.
I need to read Em's two threads on watering plants again (the one for up-potting, and the one for planting the seeds direct).
Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!!
I might get shite.
But there is a fek ton of fibers in that pot, is that coco coir?
You said soil, but I have seen one or two pots of coco and that looks like one to me.
Pardon me if I'm wrong I'll take my ball and go.
Just wanted to make sure that's all.
Stay safe
Bill
- Thread starter
- #87
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
G'morning, Bill.Good morning my friend, hate to stick my nose in here without reading everything.
I might get shite.
But there is a fek ton of fibers in that pot, is that coco coir?
You said soil, but I have seen one or two pots of coco and that looks like one to me.
Pardon me if I'm wrong I'll take my ball and go.
Just wanted to make sure that's all.
Stay safe
Bill
There are three types of soil in the thread.
The first type of soil is local Colombian clay called Black Soil. I tried opening it up, but did not do nearly enough, so the first wave of plants did not do so well.
Then, three of the 5g pots have some home-made soil that @Azimuth and @SmokingWings helped me to create (after my initial discovery that the local Black Soil does not work so good for cannabis). We could call it "round two soil" or "the home-made soil". I forget the composition, but it is somewhere back around page 3 in the thread. It has a lot of Perlite (because I was really trying to open the soil up). It seems pretty good, but in comparison it seems like I am having a hard time getting water down to the bottom of the pot, and it does not seem to want to hold water. (I am actually considering soaking the bottom 2-3" of the pot in water for a bit, to get water down to the base of the pot. Or maybe the next watering I will pour a lot of water down the rim of the pots, until the bottom of the pot is wet).
Then there is one 5g pot and all of the new Solo cups that have the new bagged boutique soil that I (finally) found here in Colombia. The website says its composition is:
Black Earth (rich volcanic clay)
Coconut fiber
Blonde Peat
Earthworm humus
Perlite
Mycorrhizae
Bat Guano
Trichoderma
Dolomite Lime
Mammoth
I am not sure what "Mammoth" is... (old Wooly Mammoth hairs???), but maybe it has something to do with all of those shaggy-looking hairs in the soil (i.e., maybe looks like blonde peat? Hahaha).
It seems to hold water really well, and the base of that pot is already moist.
Probably I will let it dry out a little, and then move the watering line to the outside rim of the pots, to force the little roots to reach out.
Probably I will migrate to this soil, since the Solo cups seem to be doing so well.
Amazing stuff, this little plant.
It seems I was coddling it without realizing what I was doing.
I guess I *was thinking that cannabis plants are like children--you feed them well and keep them hydrated, and they grow.
I guess I did not realize that no, you have to make them reach for the water, or they don't get up out of bed!
Did I answer your questions?
See what happens when I don't read
Mammoth must be the one that looks like coco.
Didn't want to upset the apple cart.
Oh and yes very well thank you.
Hope your having a good weekend my friend.
Stay safe
Bill
- Thread starter
- #89
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Good morning, all.
I am trying to find time to reread everything, but I did not get there yet, as yesterday was way too busy (but hopefully this week.)
SOLO CUPS:
I will explain my strategy with the big pots in a moment, but please let me start with the Solo cups, because it is much simpler.
On Saturday the tops of the cups looked too dry in the morning (before the sun hits the plants), so I sprayed two squirts of water around the rim of the top half of the cup, for the spreader roots.
Well, I don't know if you can tell from the photo, but this morning the soil still looked a little "pre-dawn moist" when I went up, so I don't think to water the tops yet.
(Is that wrong?)
I don't know how well you can see through the plastic cups, but when I inspect the sides, the bottom half looks a little darker (wetter) than the soil in the top half of the cup.
(And is that why it seems like the roots have not grown much the last few days, is that they still have some moisture, so they don't need to make any effort??? LAZY little girls!!!)
These photos are fairly indicative, so I will only post a few. I don't know if you can see, but the bottom half of the cup is darker (wetter) than the top.
So now I am trying to figure out exactly how long to wait until watering to runoff again.
Do I wait until the little girls juuuust barely start to wilt?
Or is that waiting juuuust a little bit too long?
(Or how do you know when to water to runoff again?)
Also, how long do I leave the seedlings on heat mats in an outdoor grow where the daily high temps are maybe around 70-72 F, and the daily lows are around 50F?
Do I just leave them on heat mats permanently in that kind of an environment?
(I have enough heat mats, if that makes a difference.)
BIG POTS WITH HOMEMADE SOIL:
The big pots are harder to explain.
Since I started directly with a seed in a big pot, I am trying to figure out the best strategy to follow, to maximize root growth, given the situation.
Three of the big pots have a homemade soil that @Azimuth and @SmokingWings helped me to make.
It seems like pretty good soil, but it does not hold moisture.
I was not getting moisture down to the base of the pots (at all) and the tops of the pots were also fairly dry (because it seems like that soil dries out really fast).
So I toked on it, and decided to take a gamble.
The center mass was moist, so I decided to water down the sides of the pot until the bottom of the pot was wet (for the first time) which effectively kind of soaked the whole pot.
Now I plan to keep watering the rim of the pots, and keep the bottom 1" of the pots moist as the top and center dry out again. I will also try to keep the spreader roots moist by watering every 2-3 days (and it is so helpful to have a water meter!)
I am a little concerned that watering the pot that early might be suicide, but since the soil dries out so fast, I am hoping that the little girls will have to keep reaching for the rims and the base of the pots if they want anything to drink.
I would not try that, except for how fast this soil seems to dry out.
I will keep you posted as they dry out.
SINGLE BIG POT WITH BAGGED BOUTIQUE SOIL:
There is also one single big pot with the boutique bagged soil, and I think it is the most confusing, but I am taking basically the same strategy (i.e., taking the same gamble) with some modifications.
The center and bottom of that pot were already moist, so I only watered the rim, so that the pot is now basically uniformly damp.
Now I will apply water only at the rim, and also give it a lot less water, so as not to add to the moisture at the bottom of the pot. But again, the plan is that the girls will slowly have to send out new roots for their water.
I hope that was the right thing to do. I guess time will tell.
BIG POT QUESTIONS:
In addition to the questions above about heat mats, and knowing exactly when to re-water the Solo cups until runoff, I guess I wonder why I never had "small seedling in big pot" syndrome before, when I used to grow indoors, under LED lights. Was it that the indoor environment was a lot warmer (usually maybe 78F or so in the day, and 66F or so at night)?
Was it that the lights shining on the soil caused more evaporation?
Because I never had a stunted seedling when growing indoors, and I always planted directly in a 5g or 7g soft pot.
(I am sure the roots were not nearly as developed as they will be with @Emilya 's up-potting routine, but I never had a stunted one...)
Also, I took it from the previous discussion that the reason the plants generate roots is that they run out of water, and must send out new roots, to try to find some (or as @Azimuth put it, they are "trying to get their fix").
So, how dry is the point that the seedlings send out more roots?
(And do I wait until they almost wilt? Or when do I give more water?)
Thank you all very much.
This is like the best forum ever.
I am trying to find time to reread everything, but I did not get there yet, as yesterday was way too busy (but hopefully this week.)
SOLO CUPS:
I will explain my strategy with the big pots in a moment, but please let me start with the Solo cups, because it is much simpler.
On Saturday the tops of the cups looked too dry in the morning (before the sun hits the plants), so I sprayed two squirts of water around the rim of the top half of the cup, for the spreader roots.
Well, I don't know if you can tell from the photo, but this morning the soil still looked a little "pre-dawn moist" when I went up, so I don't think to water the tops yet.
(Is that wrong?)
I don't know how well you can see through the plastic cups, but when I inspect the sides, the bottom half looks a little darker (wetter) than the soil in the top half of the cup.
(And is that why it seems like the roots have not grown much the last few days, is that they still have some moisture, so they don't need to make any effort??? LAZY little girls!!!)
These photos are fairly indicative, so I will only post a few. I don't know if you can see, but the bottom half of the cup is darker (wetter) than the top.
So now I am trying to figure out exactly how long to wait until watering to runoff again.
Do I wait until the little girls juuuust barely start to wilt?
Or is that waiting juuuust a little bit too long?
(Or how do you know when to water to runoff again?)
Also, how long do I leave the seedlings on heat mats in an outdoor grow where the daily high temps are maybe around 70-72 F, and the daily lows are around 50F?
Do I just leave them on heat mats permanently in that kind of an environment?
(I have enough heat mats, if that makes a difference.)
BIG POTS WITH HOMEMADE SOIL:
The big pots are harder to explain.
Since I started directly with a seed in a big pot, I am trying to figure out the best strategy to follow, to maximize root growth, given the situation.
Three of the big pots have a homemade soil that @Azimuth and @SmokingWings helped me to make.
It seems like pretty good soil, but it does not hold moisture.
I was not getting moisture down to the base of the pots (at all) and the tops of the pots were also fairly dry (because it seems like that soil dries out really fast).
So I toked on it, and decided to take a gamble.
The center mass was moist, so I decided to water down the sides of the pot until the bottom of the pot was wet (for the first time) which effectively kind of soaked the whole pot.
Now I plan to keep watering the rim of the pots, and keep the bottom 1" of the pots moist as the top and center dry out again. I will also try to keep the spreader roots moist by watering every 2-3 days (and it is so helpful to have a water meter!)
I am a little concerned that watering the pot that early might be suicide, but since the soil dries out so fast, I am hoping that the little girls will have to keep reaching for the rims and the base of the pots if they want anything to drink.
I would not try that, except for how fast this soil seems to dry out.
I will keep you posted as they dry out.
SINGLE BIG POT WITH BAGGED BOUTIQUE SOIL:
There is also one single big pot with the boutique bagged soil, and I think it is the most confusing, but I am taking basically the same strategy (i.e., taking the same gamble) with some modifications.
The center and bottom of that pot were already moist, so I only watered the rim, so that the pot is now basically uniformly damp.
Now I will apply water only at the rim, and also give it a lot less water, so as not to add to the moisture at the bottom of the pot. But again, the plan is that the girls will slowly have to send out new roots for their water.
I hope that was the right thing to do. I guess time will tell.
BIG POT QUESTIONS:
In addition to the questions above about heat mats, and knowing exactly when to re-water the Solo cups until runoff, I guess I wonder why I never had "small seedling in big pot" syndrome before, when I used to grow indoors, under LED lights. Was it that the indoor environment was a lot warmer (usually maybe 78F or so in the day, and 66F or so at night)?
Was it that the lights shining on the soil caused more evaporation?
Because I never had a stunted seedling when growing indoors, and I always planted directly in a 5g or 7g soft pot.
(I am sure the roots were not nearly as developed as they will be with @Emilya 's up-potting routine, but I never had a stunted one...)
Also, I took it from the previous discussion that the reason the plants generate roots is that they run out of water, and must send out new roots, to try to find some (or as @Azimuth put it, they are "trying to get their fix").
So, how dry is the point that the seedlings send out more roots?
(And do I wait until they almost wilt? Or when do I give more water?)
Thank you all very much.
This is like the best forum ever.
The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant
The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant Also covered: the importance of pH and why we successively up-pot How to Water Over the last several years I have put a lot of study into this, and I feel that I can now define the proper way to water a potted plant. Keep in mind that this discussion...
www.420magazine.com
The Proper Way To Water A Seedling In A Large Final Container
In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the...
www.420magazine.com
That, or you could just use the tried and true watering methods that so many have used with great success. @Emilya's watering tutorials will get you done there.
There is no incentive for the roots to grow if there is moisture in their proximity. So, if you want root growth, you have to let them dry out. Your choice, but larger roots generally mean a larger harvest at the end. Ideally you would let the plant droop once and then weigh the plant at that point and then fully water the container. Then no more water until you get to a plant weight maybe 5-10% heavier than it was when it last drooped. Or you can eyeball it and get a general sense of what the dry pot feels like when you pick it up. But, don't overcomplicate it. Let the pots dry out in between waterings with the exception of lightly moistening the top feeder roots every 3 days or so to keep them active.
Your clear cups clearly show that you still have water in the miedium. That is the advantage of using the clear cups - you can actually see what is happening. So, you don't have to guess if the medium has dried out - you'll be able to clearly see the soil turn a lighter color when it does. And it'll feel surprisingly light when you pick it up.
As far as heat mats go, I personally only use one to get the plants established if temps are lower than I would like, though the plants will certainly grow faster in a more ideal temperature zone. I want to get them used to my ambient environment quickly so I don't have to baby them as much.
In winter my plants grow much more slowly because temps and humidity are much lower. I could spend resources to modify that environment but I choose to just work with what I have. Same is true of the summers when temps and humidity get too high. I could fight it and force a more ideal environment or modify my approach a bit. So, normally I scale it down which lowers my contributions to the problem. If it gets too bad I can just take a couple of months off from flowering and start it back up in the fall. But my system produces well more than I need so I have the luxury of scaling it down if I want.
A small plant in a large container, especially outdoors, makes it very difficult to water properly since there can be pockets of moisture that you can't detect but are planty for a small root system. Then you add to it the wind which dries it out, but the morning dew that rehydarates part of it, maybe a scattered shower along the way, etc. That's a lot of variables to consider. All that can easily be overcome with a series of up-potting into larger and larger containers.
I think you're making this too hard with all of the unique things you've put in place. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the experimentation in my gardens probably more than most. But I think you should simplify things and go with a tried and true process to get some experience with something we know will work and only branch out from there once you get a baseline.
There is no incentive for the roots to grow if there is moisture in their proximity. So, if you want root growth, you have to let them dry out. Your choice, but larger roots generally mean a larger harvest at the end. Ideally you would let the plant droop once and then weigh the plant at that point and then fully water the container. Then no more water until you get to a plant weight maybe 5-10% heavier than it was when it last drooped. Or you can eyeball it and get a general sense of what the dry pot feels like when you pick it up. But, don't overcomplicate it. Let the pots dry out in between waterings with the exception of lightly moistening the top feeder roots every 3 days or so to keep them active.
Your clear cups clearly show that you still have water in the miedium. That is the advantage of using the clear cups - you can actually see what is happening. So, you don't have to guess if the medium has dried out - you'll be able to clearly see the soil turn a lighter color when it does. And it'll feel surprisingly light when you pick it up.
As far as heat mats go, I personally only use one to get the plants established if temps are lower than I would like, though the plants will certainly grow faster in a more ideal temperature zone. I want to get them used to my ambient environment quickly so I don't have to baby them as much.
In winter my plants grow much more slowly because temps and humidity are much lower. I could spend resources to modify that environment but I choose to just work with what I have. Same is true of the summers when temps and humidity get too high. I could fight it and force a more ideal environment or modify my approach a bit. So, normally I scale it down which lowers my contributions to the problem. If it gets too bad I can just take a couple of months off from flowering and start it back up in the fall. But my system produces well more than I need so I have the luxury of scaling it down if I want.
A small plant in a large container, especially outdoors, makes it very difficult to water properly since there can be pockets of moisture that you can't detect but are planty for a small root system. Then you add to it the wind which dries it out, but the morning dew that rehydarates part of it, maybe a scattered shower along the way, etc. That's a lot of variables to consider. All that can easily be overcome with a series of up-potting into larger and larger containers.
I think you're making this too hard with all of the unique things you've put in place. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the experimentation in my gardens probably more than most. But I think you should simplify things and go with a tried and true process to get some experience with something we know will work and only branch out from there once you get a baseline.
Good morning my friend.Good morning, all.
I am trying to find time to reread everything, but I did not get there yet, as yesterday was way too busy (but hopefully this week.)
SOLO CUPS:
I will explain my strategy with the big pots in a moment, but please let me start with the Solo cups, because it is much simpler.
On Saturday the tops of the cups looked too dry in the morning (before the sun hits the plants), so I sprayed two squirts of water around the rim of the top half of the cup, for the spreader roots.
Well, I don't know if you can tell from the photo, but this morning the soil still looked a little "pre-dawn moist" when I went up, so I don't think to water the tops yet.
(Is that wrong?)
I don't know how well you can see through the plastic cups, but when I inspect the sides, the bottom half looks a little darker (wetter) than the soil in the top half of the cup.
(And is that why it seems like the roots have not grown much the last few days, is that they still have some moisture, so they don't need to make any effort??? LAZY little girls!!!)
These photos are fairly indicative, so I will only post a few. I don't know if you can see, but the bottom half of the cup is darker (wetter) than the top.
So now I am trying to figure out exactly how long to wait until watering to runoff again.
Do I wait until the little girls juuuust barely start to wilt?
Or is that waiting juuuust a little bit too long?
(Or how do you know when to water to runoff again?)
Also, how long do I leave the seedlings on heat mats in an outdoor grow where the daily high temps are maybe around 70-72 F, and the daily lows are around 50F?
Do I just leave them on heat mats permanently in that kind of an environment?
(I have enough heat mats, if that makes a difference.)
BIG POTS WITH HOMEMADE SOIL:
The big pots are harder to explain.
Since I started directly with a seed in a big pot, I am trying to figure out the best strategy to follow, to maximize root growth, given the situation.
Three of the big pots have a homemade soil that @Azimuth and @SmokingWings helped me to make.
It seems like pretty good soil, but it does not hold moisture.
I was not getting moisture down to the base of the pots (at all) and the tops of the pots were also fairly dry (because it seems like that soil dries out really fast).
So I toked on it, and decided to take a gamble.
The center mass was moist, so I decided to water down the sides of the pot until the bottom of the pot was wet (for the first time) which effectively kind of soaked the whole pot.
Now I plan to keep watering the rim of the pots, and keep the bottom 1" of the pots moist as the top and center dry out again. I will also try to keep the spreader roots moist by watering every 2-3 days (and it is so helpful to have a water meter!)
I am a little concerned that watering the pot that early might be suicide, but since the soil dries out so fast, I am hoping that the little girls will have to keep reaching for the rims and the base of the pots if they want anything to drink.
I would not try that, except for how fast this soil seems to dry out.
I will keep you posted as they dry out.
SINGLE BIG POT WITH BAGGED BOUTIQUE SOIL:
There is also one single big pot with the boutique bagged soil, and I think it is the most confusing, but I am taking basically the same strategy (i.e., taking the same gamble) with some modifications.
The center and bottom of that pot were already moist, so I only watered the rim, so that the pot is now basically uniformly damp.
Now I will apply water only at the rim, and also give it a lot less water, so as not to add to the moisture at the bottom of the pot. But again, the plan is that the girls will slowly have to send out new roots for their water.
I hope that was the right thing to do. I guess time will tell.
BIG POT QUESTIONS:
In addition to the questions above about heat mats, and knowing exactly when to re-water the Solo cups until runoff, I guess I wonder why I never had "small seedling in big pot" syndrome before, when I used to grow indoors, under LED lights. Was it that the indoor environment was a lot warmer (usually maybe 78F or so in the day, and 66F or so at night)?
Was it that the lights shining on the soil caused more evaporation?
Because I never had a stunted seedling when growing indoors, and I always planted directly in a 5g or 7g soft pot.
(I am sure the roots were not nearly as developed as they will be with @Emilya 's up-potting routine, but I never had a stunted one...)
Also, I took it from the previous discussion that the reason the plants generate roots is that they run out of water, and must send out new roots, to try to find some (or as @Azimuth put it, they are "trying to get their fix").
So, how dry is the point that the seedlings send out more roots?
(And do I wait until they almost wilt? Or when do I give more water?)
Thank you all very much.
This is like the best forum ever.
Solo cups
Is that the Mammoth stuff, coco?
It's got to be watered to runoff every time so the roots will chase water to the bottom, there is a very important tap root down there.
Water the outside edges.
Bliter has a link for you.
But if it's coco it has to be kept wet with nutrients at 5.8 ph.
Make sure you have a Stat on your mat, they can cook little girls.
Once they are growing well you should be able to remove it.
Boutique Soil
Let it dry out fully, all the way through, then water tonrun off with full strength nutrients at 6.3 ph.
Let dry then plain water at 6.3.
Keep this schedule right to harvest, dry period is Vital.
I'm sure I missed a couple questions so Keep asking.
Stay safe
Bill
- Thread starter
- #94
- Thread starter
- #95
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Hi Azimuth. Thank you.
Sorry, I don't mean to be complicated, or exotic, or anything like that.
I am actually trying to follow what I understand of Em's instructions. (Sorry if I am not getting it right just yet.)
I had the exact wrong conception of how to grow weeds. I thought you just feed them, and they will grow (like children) but it turns out you have to make them work for it, or they don't grow (surprise!).
So now I am trying to get to where I can follow Em's tutorials, but I think it is difficult because the soils are very different, and when I tried to follow Em's advice I was not getting water down to the bottom of the pots.
So, rather than to add more water to an already-moist mid-section, it seemed to make more sense to water the rim of the pot, which hopefully will force the plant to send roots out to the rim of the container.
I am very sorry if that is wrong.
I am also pained that I did not plant in small pots, and then up-pot, because I can tell right now that what you and Em and everyone else are saying about up-potting is exactly 100% right.
It seems clear at this point that up-potting is going to work much better, but for this particular batch, I still have to deal with the soil and the situation which I already have (which is that three of the pots aren't holding moisture).
So I am trying to get to where I can water the outside of the pots, so that the roots have to travel out to find water.
I am sorry if I am doing it wrong.
I would relish a non-unique, non-complicated situation. That was my goal from the outset. It was harder because I could not find pre-mixed soil until a few weeks ago.
I suppose I can throw away the homemade soil for future grows, and just use the bagged stuff from now on.
Only, I still do not understand why I never had stunting indoors under LED lights when planting directly in 5G or 7G pots, so I do not really understand why I am having stunting outdoors.
The plants are covered with a (mostly) clear plastic hoop tunnel, so the rain does not hit them directly.
I do not see any dew on anything else, but maybe the top of the soil is due to dew?
May I please ask, how dry do I let the soil around the spreader roots get, before I water again?
Do I have to let it get super-dry first?
Thank you very much.
Sorry, I don't mean to be complicated, or exotic, or anything like that.
I am actually trying to follow what I understand of Em's instructions. (Sorry if I am not getting it right just yet.)
I had the exact wrong conception of how to grow weeds. I thought you just feed them, and they will grow (like children) but it turns out you have to make them work for it, or they don't grow (surprise!).
So now I am trying to get to where I can follow Em's tutorials, but I think it is difficult because the soils are very different, and when I tried to follow Em's advice I was not getting water down to the bottom of the pots.
So, rather than to add more water to an already-moist mid-section, it seemed to make more sense to water the rim of the pot, which hopefully will force the plant to send roots out to the rim of the container.
I am very sorry if that is wrong.
I am also pained that I did not plant in small pots, and then up-pot, because I can tell right now that what you and Em and everyone else are saying about up-potting is exactly 100% right.
It seems clear at this point that up-potting is going to work much better, but for this particular batch, I still have to deal with the soil and the situation which I already have (which is that three of the pots aren't holding moisture).
So I am trying to get to where I can water the outside of the pots, so that the roots have to travel out to find water.
I am sorry if I am doing it wrong.
I would relish a non-unique, non-complicated situation. That was my goal from the outset. It was harder because I could not find pre-mixed soil until a few weeks ago.
I suppose I can throw away the homemade soil for future grows, and just use the bagged stuff from now on.
Only, I still do not understand why I never had stunting indoors under LED lights when planting directly in 5G or 7G pots, so I do not really understand why I am having stunting outdoors.
The plants are covered with a (mostly) clear plastic hoop tunnel, so the rain does not hit them directly.
I do not see any dew on anything else, but maybe the top of the soil is due to dew?
May I please ask, how dry do I let the soil around the spreader roots get, before I water again?
Do I have to let it get super-dry first?
Thank you very much.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
if you are following my advice, it would be almost impossible to not get water to the bottom of the pots. As a matter of fact, no matter what watering methods you are using, gravity grabs hold of your water, and any that has not gotten immediately sucked up by the roots, has no choice but to fall to the bottom.
Things can of course stop this from happening, but they would be obvious, such as an inch thick layer of worm castings, compost or some other sticky layer that impedes water flow in your container, but I don't think I remember you saying that you did any of those things, but maybe your soil mix is that thick? Live and learn as they say..
- Thread starter
- #97
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Thanks Bill.
Yes, it is (Woolly) Mammoth (hair) in the Solo cups, yes.
I like that soil best, and want to transition to it, so probably I should throw away all of the #2 soil mix, and just use the Woolly Mammoth boutique soil from now on.
The soil is not doing what I expected, and I am having a hard time getting the water to go where I want it to go, so I am trying to get to the place where I can water from the outside rim (to make the girls send out roots).
If I understand what you and @Azimuth are saying, then I should watch the Solo cups carefully today.
If they get too dry, I will water the rim lightly again, for the benefit of the spreader roots, and let the bottom half of the cup continue to dry out.
Then when the thing seems surprisingly light, then water it to runoff again?
And then repeat the process until the girls drain the Solo cups in 1 day?
And then (and only then), up-pot?
And I think Em said that in an organic soil grow, you don't need to monitor pH, so I thought just to ferment the stuff, and use that every other week?
Thanks a million for answering questions!
I am hoping to do things right with the Solo cups (and seven more seeds I just soaked last night).
Hopefully I can up-pot from here on out, and things will get much, much simpler.
Thanks again.
Good morning my friend.
Solo cups
Is that the Mammoth stuff, coco?
It's got to be watered to runoff every time so the roots will chase water to the bottom, there is a very important tap root down there.
Water the outside edges.
Bliter has a link for you.
But if it's coco it has to be kept wet with nutrients at 5.8 ph.
Make sure you have a Stat on your mat, they can cook little girls.
Once they are growing well you should be able to remove it.
Boutique Soil
Let it dry out fully, all the way through, then water tonrun off with full strength nutrients at 6.3 ph.
Let dry then plain water at 6.3.
Keep this schedule right to harvest, dry period is Vital.
I'm sure I missed a couple questions so Keep asking.
Stay safe
Bill
Yes, it is (Woolly) Mammoth (hair) in the Solo cups, yes.
I like that soil best, and want to transition to it, so probably I should throw away all of the #2 soil mix, and just use the Woolly Mammoth boutique soil from now on.
The soil is not doing what I expected, and I am having a hard time getting the water to go where I want it to go, so I am trying to get to the place where I can water from the outside rim (to make the girls send out roots).
If I understand what you and @Azimuth are saying, then I should watch the Solo cups carefully today.
If they get too dry, I will water the rim lightly again, for the benefit of the spreader roots, and let the bottom half of the cup continue to dry out.
Then when the thing seems surprisingly light, then water it to runoff again?
And then repeat the process until the girls drain the Solo cups in 1 day?
And then (and only then), up-pot?
And I think Em said that in an organic soil grow, you don't need to monitor pH, so I thought just to ferment the stuff, and use that every other week?
Thanks a million for answering questions!
I am hoping to do things right with the Solo cups (and seven more seeds I just soaked last night).
Hopefully I can up-pot from here on out, and things will get much, much simpler.
Thanks again.
There are two sets of roots. The top feeder roots are much finer and can dry out beyond repair much more easily so that's why @Emilya recommends to water sparingly every three days to keep them engaged.
The second are the lower, water hunting roots and those are the ones you want to fill the container with if possible and you do that with the wet/dry cycle. If the bottom of your pot is dry and the middle is moist and the top is dry, then maybe bottom water to get the pot reset and then let it dry out normally. Once you get a few cycles under your belt, the roots will get much stronger and be able to handle variations that inevitably come with growing.
Indoor growing is much different from outdoor due to a much more consistant environment and much lower light loads typically. What works indoors has to be modified for more variables outdoors.
The second are the lower, water hunting roots and those are the ones you want to fill the container with if possible and you do that with the wet/dry cycle. If the bottom of your pot is dry and the middle is moist and the top is dry, then maybe bottom water to get the pot reset and then let it dry out normally. Once you get a few cycles under your belt, the roots will get much stronger and be able to handle variations that inevitably come with growing.
Indoor growing is much different from outdoor due to a much more consistant environment and much lower light loads typically. What works indoors has to be modified for more variables outdoors.
- Thread starter
- #99
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Hi @Emilya .
Thank you very much for helping! It is really great to have your advice.
Hahaha, oy. Well, I said I am TRYING to follow your advice! (Oy.)
It seems I have not managed to FOLLOW your advice yet?? (Oy!!)
Only, I did not have a moisture probe until Friday, so Saturday was the first time I was able to properly measure the moisture inside of the pots.
That is to say, Saturday was when I first realized that the bottoms of the #2 Soil pots were still dry, and that the #2 Soil is drying out super fast (i.e., does not hold moisture well).
If I understood your article, to get the bottom of the pot wet, I should have added enough water to reach the bottom of the pots near the stem (i.e., inside the 3x diameter of the fan leaves).
However, I thought that would only soak the roots in the center of the pot before they have had time to dry out (and I understand that the drying-out process is crucial to getting the plant to form new roots).
So, rather than add enough water to reach the bottom of the pots by watering inside the 3x-diameter-of-the-fan-leaves (when that soil was already moist), it seemed to make more sense to add that water around the rim of the pot, and then keep the rim moist, and desist from watering the center of the pot (except for something for the spreader roots every 3 days or so), until the top and the bottom of the pot come back into sync (as you advised me before).
Was it a mistake to add that water at the rim, rather than near the stem? Meaning I should have added that water inside the 3x diameter, even though the water inside the 3x diameter was already moist?
My thought was that if I made the bottom of the pot wet by adding that water around the rim, and then the rim of the pot would be wet, and the already-moist center could begin to dry out.
And then I could follow your earlier instructions to moisten the spreader roots every 3 days or so, until the top and the bottom sync up.
It seemed like that was the best path to get back on track with the advice you gave me before.
Did I mess up?
(Was that wrong?)
Thank you very much for helping! It is really great to have your advice.
Hahaha, oy. Well, I said I am TRYING to follow your advice! (Oy.)
It seems I have not managed to FOLLOW your advice yet?? (Oy!!)
Only, I did not have a moisture probe until Friday, so Saturday was the first time I was able to properly measure the moisture inside of the pots.
That is to say, Saturday was when I first realized that the bottoms of the #2 Soil pots were still dry, and that the #2 Soil is drying out super fast (i.e., does not hold moisture well).
If I understood your article, to get the bottom of the pot wet, I should have added enough water to reach the bottom of the pots near the stem (i.e., inside the 3x diameter of the fan leaves).
However, I thought that would only soak the roots in the center of the pot before they have had time to dry out (and I understand that the drying-out process is crucial to getting the plant to form new roots).
So, rather than add enough water to reach the bottom of the pots by watering inside the 3x-diameter-of-the-fan-leaves (when that soil was already moist), it seemed to make more sense to add that water around the rim of the pot, and then keep the rim moist, and desist from watering the center of the pot (except for something for the spreader roots every 3 days or so), until the top and the bottom of the pot come back into sync (as you advised me before).
Was it a mistake to add that water at the rim, rather than near the stem? Meaning I should have added that water inside the 3x diameter, even though the water inside the 3x diameter was already moist?
My thought was that if I made the bottom of the pot wet by adding that water around the rim, and then the rim of the pot would be wet, and the already-moist center could begin to dry out.
And then I could follow your earlier instructions to moisten the spreader roots every 3 days or so, until the top and the bottom sync up.
It seemed like that was the best path to get back on track with the advice you gave me before.
Did I mess up?
(Was that wrong?)
- Thread starter
- #100
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Thank you, @Azimuth .
That is very helpful to know about the roots.
I will keep trying to water the top spreader (feeder?) roots lightly every three days or so, to keep them engaged while I wait for the pot to dry out.
I am kind of banking on the #2 Soil drying out quickly.
I am trying to figure out how the little roots really work.
I thought about soaking the bottoms of the pots to get the water down there (and I almost did that), but then I thought instead, maybe I should pour the water down the rim, and desist from watering the center, and that this would encourage the plant to send roots out to the sides of the pot (because it was moister there.
Did I misunderstand the instructions completely??? (Oy...)
I am hoping that up-potting in the future will take all of these headaches away.
That is very helpful to know about the roots.
I will keep trying to water the top spreader (feeder?) roots lightly every three days or so, to keep them engaged while I wait for the pot to dry out.
I am kind of banking on the #2 Soil drying out quickly.
I am trying to figure out how the little roots really work.
I thought about soaking the bottoms of the pots to get the water down there (and I almost did that), but then I thought instead, maybe I should pour the water down the rim, and desist from watering the center, and that this would encourage the plant to send roots out to the sides of the pot (because it was moister there.
Did I misunderstand the instructions completely??? (Oy...)
I am hoping that up-potting in the future will take all of these headaches away.