Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[CBDMed]

Hi mate, excellent idea of getting your list going well in advance of your next run.
Oyster shell flour amended in your soil might be a good source of Ca. I’m not advanced enough to suggest a good source of Mg.

Hi @SCD !
I will look for it.
No promises, the good stuff that every one here uses (@DYNOMYCO , @GeoFlora Nutrients , Sassafrass, Bug flushings, kelp meal, neem meal, etc.) I can't find.
I ordered some DynoMyco and GeoFlora for the shootout, but I am not sure I will be able to maintain it long term (as our budget is getting slashed).
But since everyone here uses it, I thought I at least need to provide it for the side-by-side.
Please give me some time, and I will put together a new thread.

 

[SCD]

Don’t worry about me, my suggestion may not even be appropriate.
The product guide I was looking at suggests 36% Ca in the mix and is slow release.
I was selfishly hoping to learn along with you as other replies come in

 

[CBDMed]

¡Hola Amigo!,

Hola @Emilya Green ! Thanks so much for sharing your extensive expertise!

First, calcium and magnesium deficiencies are two different things and they appear in different parts of the plant.

Right. Got it. But I still have not had time to follow your earlier advice of memorizing the deficiency patterns (as part of my basic training).
I found a nute deficiency page, I just need to print it out, so I can take it upstairs.

Second, I don't think you can say that all SIP grows have this problem.

Ahh, ok. THAT'S good to know!!
Thank you!!

Out on the web I see SIP being promoted as THE way to grow vegetables outdoors in raised planters and there is no common thread out there confirming that SIP causes these problems. If there were automatic C or Mg problems associated with this watering method, tomato growers all of the world would revolt and SIP would not be a thing.

That is VERY helpful!
Thank you!!

I think you are seeing instead, the same problems growers of cannabis have been having all along with their nutes. I personally don't have calcium or magnesium problems in my organic GeoFlora grows, and all I see is an occasional potassium problem with very hungry plants.

Yeah, it looks like great stuff! And it looks like it is doing great for you!
(I wish I could find GeoFlora and DynoMyco here in Colombia!!!!)

MC growers tend to deal with calcium and magnesium problems. FF growers fight the dreaded Molybdenum deficiency. Every system is different and has its own quirks.

Ahh, I am not sure what MC means, but I get your point.
They balance the soil for the plants THEY like, and we have to touch up around the edges (except that GeoFlora already has you covered??)

I think the majority of problems that we see out here have to do with the nutes being used and the application of them.

Sí.

And as you asked at the end, those trying to work with supersoil have their own special set of problems that come about by not fully composting their supersoil. Some of the raw elements are quite difficult to break down so as to be able to become part of the soil as needed. Humic acid is powerful, but it is not magic.
Some things just take time.

Ok, thank you for this!
May I please check my understanding with you?
I know you prefer to follow pre-set recipes and plans, and normally, I agree! (Makes total sense.)
But as we discussed before, some elements of supersoil (like bloodmeal) need to be fermented so they don't take oxygen away from the roots, and also because they can make a lot of heat.
Only, some components will eat oxygen, and others (such as greensand, eggshell powder, and maybe Dolomite Lime) don't really rot so much. If you leave them out in the sun they don't oxidize, or get putrid. So that was specifically my question, is if it would be ok to add non-putrifying amendments to the supersoil, or if it doesn't matter.
If I am all washed up on this, please just say. I know you know wayyyy more about this stuff than I do, and am trying to double-check, so I don't do something stupider than usual, haha.

One more question:
I put zeolite and activated charcoal in the supersoil mix that has already fermented (something like 4 months).
I did not know to pre-treat them.
Should I be concerned about this?
And if so, what should I do about it, at this stage?
Thanks.

 

[CBDMed]

In my Rev based soil using dolomite lime is critical vs other lime to combat mag def. If I get a mag def I use epsom salts either a Tablespoon in a 10 gallon pot watered in, or in a gallon of water, watered . Keep your eye on things and if you need, epsom works fast and well.

Oooo, I forgot the Otter!
(The Otter should not be forgotten!!)

Thanks, Otter!
I want to go Rev if I can.
I did not know it is bad to top-water SIPs.
I want to transition to the Rev and KNF, etc., to save on costs.
(We had a budget meeting, and everyone was looking at ME!

Special notes:
I hear Azi saying that he can't get his homemades to feed through the reservoir yet (and he is working on chelation, or something), so I am keeping a special eye on @Bill284 's Perlite Parfaits (which he top waters every day, kind of mimicking SIP function through top-watering).
If it is a simple matter of making layers or adding RezDog's 40% Perlite, that should work really well for larger pots and longer grows, nu?

One question for @Bill284 : has anyone tried your perlite layers in ground?
(They grow a lot of cannabis in-ground here.
They dig a hole, throw kitchen waste in for 2-3 months, and then let the worms go at it for 2 months.
Then when the worms are all done, they mix in a bunch of rice hulls (for aeration and silica), and plant.
So, I'm thinking, it wouldn't seem to take much at that point to dig out the hole, and backfill it with layers of rice hulls (like Perlite).
I would love to hear any and all comments.

Also,
@StoneOtter , do you have a SIP or SWIK (sp?) or Parfait thread I should be checking out, while I am getting ready for this thing?

THANK YOU EVERYONE! (All comments welcome, please!!)

 

[Azimuth]

I put zeolite and activated charcoal in the supersoil mix that has already fermented (something like 4 months).
I did not know to pre-treat them.
Should I be concerned about this?
And if so, what should I do about it, at this stage?

Yes, you should be at least aware of the potential issue you have introduced. Activated charcoal is simply carbon that has had a chemical applied to it to help it absorb stuff, like odors in the air, or excess nutrients in fish water, etc.

What you really wanted was pre-charged char (biochar) where the gazillion pores are already filled with nutrients and microbes. Since that’s apparently not what you did, you need to be prepared for the outcome where your char absorbs the nutrients you intended for your plants, storing it for later. That will take the form of deficiencies even though you think you are using adequate amounts of nutes.

What to do? Dunno. If it were me, I'd be sure to use copious amounts of worm casting teas every time I watered to hopefully fill those pores with extra goodies, but I suspect you're in for a bumpy ride, at least initially. And, if you are going to use a SIP pot, you will be watering infrequently from the top, prolonging the fix. So maybe a normal pot @Bill284 style might serve you better with that mix, at least for the first round of that soil.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hola @Emilya Green ! Thanks so much for sharing your extensive expertise!

Right. Got it. But I still have not had time to follow your earlier advice of memorizing the deficiency patterns (as part of my basic training).
I found a nute deficiency page, I just need to print it out, so I can take it upstairs.

Ahh, ok. THAT'S good to know!!
Thank you!!


That is VERY helpful!
Thank you!!

Yeah, it looks like great stuff! And it looks like it is doing great for you!
(I wish I could find GeoFlora and DynoMyco here in Colombia!!!!)

Ahh, I am not sure what MC means, but I get your point.
They balance the soil for the plants THEY like, and we have to touch up around the edges (except that GeoFlora already has you covered??)

Sí.

Ok, thank you for this!
May I please check my understanding with you?
I know you prefer to follow pre-set recipes and plans, and normally, I agree! (Makes total sense.)
But as we discussed before, some elements of supersoil (like bloodmeal) need to be fermented so they don't take oxygen away from the roots, and also because they can make a lot of heat.
Only, some components will eat oxygen, and others (such as greensand, eggshell powder, and maybe Dolomite Lime) don't really rot so much. If you leave them out in the sun they don't oxidize, or get putrid. So that was specifically my question, is if it would be ok to add non-putrifying amendments to the supersoil, or if it doesn't matter.
If I am all washed up on this, please just say. I know you know wayyyy more about this stuff than I do, and am trying to double-check, so I don't do something stupider than usual, haha.

One more question:
I put zeolite and activated charcoal in the supersoil mix that has already fermented (something like 4 months).
I did not know to pre-treat them.
Should I be concerned about this?
And if so, what should I do about it, at this stage?
Thanks.

Yes, the zeolite and charcoal present a problem. Both are designed to capture and hold various ions, and your nutrients are on the list. You have basically shot yourself in the foot, reloaded and then shot the other foot too. I don't know if you can recover from this. As hard as it is to read, I think I have to recommend starting over, heeding the warning to stick with known recipes. Keep the putrefying stuff in the compost pile.

 

[Azimuth]

I should also add that worm castings are supposedly encased in calcium carbonate, so just another reason to add worm castings to your grow if you are concerned about low calcium levels.

 

[Azimuth]

Yes, the zeolite and charcoal present a problem. Both are designed to capture and hold various ions, and your nutrients are on the list. You have basically shot yourself in the foot, reloaded and then shot the other foot too. I don't know if you can recover from this. As hard as it is to read, I think I have to recommend starting over, heeding the warning to stick with known recipes. Keep the putrefying stuff in the compost pile.

Or, keep that soil sitting for a season to give the char a chance to become biochar. Maybe pick up some Promix or the like and use that with your Geoflora nutes for this season in your SIPs and try your supersoil next round.

 

[CBDMed]

Yes, you should be at least aware of the potential issue you have introduced. Activated charcoal is simply carbon that has had a chemical applied to it to help it absorb stuff, like odors in the air, or excess nutrients in fish water, etc.

What you really wanted was pre-charged char (biochar) where the gazillion pores are already filled with nutrients and microbes. Since that’s apparently not what you did, you need to be prepared for the outcome where your char absorbs the nutrients you intended for your plants, storing it for later. That will take the form of deficiencies even though you think you are using adequate amounts of nutes.

What to do? Dunno. If it were me, I'd be sure to use copious amounts of worm casting teas every time I watered to hopefully fill those pores with extra goodies, but I suspect you're in for a bumpy ride, at least initially. And, if you are going to use a SIP pot, you will be watering infrequently from the top, prolonging the fix. So maybe a normal pot @Bill284 style might serve you better with that mix, at least for the first round of that soil.

Thank you, @Azimuth!

 

[CBDMed]

Yes, the zeolite and charcoal present a problem. Both are designed to capture and hold various ions, and your nutrients are on the list. You have basically shot yourself in the foot, reloaded and then shot the other foot too. I don't know if you can recover from this. As hard as it is to read, I think I have to recommend starting over, heeding the warning to stick with known recipes. Keep the putrefying stuff in the compost pile.

Thank you, @Emilya Green !

 

[CBDMed]

Or, keep that soil sitting for a season to give the char a chance to become biochar. Maybe pick up some Promix or the like and use that with your Geoflora nutes for this season in your SIPs and try your supersoil next round.

Ahh, so! Maybe it is the Zeolyte and Charcoal that is eating up all my calcium??

Well, things like ProMix are not really available here.
And I don't think the GeoFlora I have will last for 20 SIPs (and shipping here effectively doubles all the prices...).
And we are trying to slash the budget.

Just as a question, since I probably have 3 (maybe 4) weeks until the next planting, how about if I mix wc in with the supersoil, and add water to soak it for 3 weeks (to try to move it toward biochar)?
Then drain the slurry, and use that for fertilizer water?
Or, evaporate the fertilizer water, and use the powder as a top-dressing?
Or is all of that better done by what you said, mixing wc in with the soil (along with rice hulls and perlite)?

One thing I could add is that this is the same supersoil I am using now.

Yes, I have been stumped as to why my plants seem to have some kind of deficiency that is cured (or very much helped) by liquid CalMag.
And yes, I was hoping to rectify this by adding more Calcium to the soil (and use Epsom salts if needed).
Perhaps all of this is caused by the charcoal and zeolyte?
(But if things are growing...)

 

[CBDMed]

Don’t worry about me, my suggestion may not even be appropriate.
The product guide I was looking at suggests 36% Ca in the mix and is slow release.
I was selfishly hoping to learn along with you as other replies come in

@SCD, I am totally cool with that.
I will probably learn something from the questions that get introduced.
Thanks.

 

[Azimuth]

Just as a question, since I probably have 3 (maybe 4) weeks until the next planting, how about if I mix wc in with the supersoil, and add water to soak it for 3 weeks (to try to move it toward biochar)?
Then drain the slurry, and use that for fertilizer water?

That should be enough time to make a good dent in it at least. I make my biochar by mixing equal amounts by volume of char and fresh worm castings. Then I let it sit for at least a month, but the longer the better.

I wouldn't overly soak the soil mix that's cooking though, just treat it like a normal, full watering.

Worm castings can be a bit dense in your mix so maybe no more than 15-20% overall? And you can totally top dress with a thick layer of castings on your existing plants. The calcium carbonate that coats the castings will probably help your ca deficiency. I generally do a good inch of castings on top of the soil and then cover that with mulch to keep the castings from drying out. They'll turn into a very hard, crusty layer if you don't, and nobody wants that.

I should warn you though that I usually bring in thrips and mites with the castings so you'll need a strategy at hand to deal with that if it happens to you.

 

[CBDMed]

That should be enough time to make a good dent in it at least. I make my biochar by mixing equal amounts by volume of char and fresh worm castings. Then I let it sit for at least a month, but the longer the better.

I wouldn't overly soak the soil mix that's cooking though, just treat it like a normal, full watering.

Worm castings can be a bit dense in your mix so maybe no more than 15-20% overall? And you can totally top dress with a thick layer of castings on your existing plants. The calcium carbonate that coats the castings will probably help your ca deficiency. I generally do a good inch of castings on top of the soil and then cover that with mulch to keep the castings from drying out. They'll turn into a very hard, crusty layer if you don't, and nobody wants that.

I should warn you though that I usually bring in thrips and mites with the castings so you'll need a strategy at hand to deal with that if it happens to you.

@Azimuth , thanks for thinking positive! I am sorry that I did not know to pre-soak the charcoal or the zeolyte, but I believe many good things will come out of this (including increased knowledge), so overall I am very optimistic!

Yes, I will try to limit the wc to 15-20% overall.
I want to try to make the soil MUCH fluffier and lighter than it is now, so I want to add 40% aeration.

Questions for @Azimuth, @ReservoirDog, and @Bill284 (but open to all):
Rice hulls are dirt cheap here. (I can get like maybe a 2 gallon sack for $1.50.)
I want to re-ferment the supersoil tomorrow, with maybe 20% rice hulls (for aeration, and for silica), and 20% Perlite.
(The rice hulls here are conventional (not organic), but they almost never use Roundup on rice, so they should be safe.)

Question:
Is there a better mix than 20% rice hulls, and 20% Perlite?
If you were to aerate supersoil, how would you do it?
What mix would you use?

Question for @Bill284 (but open to all):
Is it fair to use (cheap) rice hulls for any Parfait layers that I might do?
Or is Perlite better?

Question for @ReservoirDog (but open to all):
I have maybe 7/8ths of a bottle of Liquid Dirt.
I thought to mix it in with the supersoil, in the re-ferment.
Is that a mistake? Or is there better?

Thank you all! I appreciate your help and encouragement very much.

 

[CBDMed]

@Bill284 , I understand you are also running behind, but it would be great to see that updated video of how you water with the Toilet Plunger method.
(No rush, I probably have a few weeks before I plant.)
Thank you!

 

[CBDMed]

Hi @Bill284 !
Question for you:
How big a deal do you count Superthrive in your system?
I think you said you only mist with it...so would a little last a long time?

The reason I ask is that the cheapest I can find a quart down here is like $125.00 US (and most want around $200.US).

I can find a 4 ouncer for maybe $20, and I am wondering about how long that might last.

Thanks!

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hola @Emilya Green ! Thanks so much for sharing your extensive expertise!

Right. Got it. But I still have not had time to follow your earlier advice of memorizing the deficiency patterns (as part of my basic training).
I found a nute deficiency page, I just need to print it out, so I can take it upstairs.

Ahh, ok. THAT'S good to know!!
Thank you!!


That is VERY helpful!
Thank you!!

Yeah, it looks like great stuff! And it looks like it is doing great for you!
(I wish I could find GeoFlora and DynoMyco here in Colombia!!!!)

Ahh, I am not sure what MC means, but I get your point.
They balance the soil for the plants THEY like, and we have to touch up around the edges (except that GeoFlora already has you covered??)

Sí.

Ok, thank you for this!
May I please check my understanding with you?
I know you prefer to follow pre-set recipes and plans, and normally, I agree! (Makes total sense.)
But as we discussed before, some elements of supersoil (like bloodmeal) need to be fermented so they don't take oxygen away from the roots, and also because they can make a lot of heat.
Only, some components will eat oxygen, and others (such as greensand, eggshell powder, and maybe Dolomite Lime) don't really rot so much. If you leave them out in the sun they don't oxidize, or get putrid. So that was specifically my question, is if it would be ok to add non-putrifying amendments to the supersoil, or if it doesn't matter.
If I am all washed up on this, please just say. I know you know wayyyy more about this stuff than I do, and am trying to double-check, so I don't do something stupider than usual, haha.

One more question:
I put zeolite and activated charcoal in the supersoil mix that has already fermented (something like 4 months).
I did not know to pre-treat them.
Should I be concerned about this?
And if so, what should I do about it, at this stage?
Thanks.

I kind of agree with you on MC (Mega Crop). In Fabric pots I did see Cal-Mag defs. But in SIP's I didn't get it. I got the Potassium Def. instead that you mentioned. Not sure if it's just a coincidence or what. I should know after the 2nd SIP grow I'm doing now.

 

[Azimuth]

Rice hulls are dirt cheap here. (I can get like maybe a 2 gallon sack for $1.50.)
I want to re-ferment the supersoil tomorrow, with maybe 20% rice hulls (for aeration, and for silica), and 20% Perlite.
(The rice hulls here are conventional (not organic), but they almost never use Roundup on rice, so they should be safe.)

Rice hulls are definitely considered organic and are often recommended for the aeration portion of the mix. I've never used them but understand that they get broken down by the microbes over time and therefore have to be replaced for each grow unlike perlite that is inert and will last longer. But, the perlite itself will break down over time into smaller and smaller pieces and lose its effectiveness and must be replaced as well, just not as often.

Pumice is a better alternative to perlite in that it doesn't break down (at least as easily) and also doesn't float so it stays where you put it in your mix vs perlite which can tend to float up and out over time.

If you have cheap and easy access to rice hulls, they would be an excellent component for aeration.

 

[Bill284]

Hi @Bill284 !
Question for you:
How big a deal do you count Superthrive in your system?
I think you said you only mist with it...so would a little last a long time?

The reason I ask is that the cheapest I can find a quart down here is like $125.00 US (and most want around $200.US).

I can find a 4 ouncer for maybe $20, and I am wondering about how long that might last.

Thanks!

I apologize for not answering your questions in my thread yet.
After the weekend I been a little rough.
I'll try and catch up today,
Superthrive is pretty dam good but not 200 bucks good.
I usually grab a small bottle for for when their young.
But do you have any local products that are economical.
B1 or kelp? A root health product is all you need.
I don't want you to break the budget on the first item.
A small bottle will last quite a while if you can get one.
How many plants are you planning on starting with?




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StoneOtter]

Also,
@StoneOtter , do you have a SIP or SWIK (sp?) or Parfait thread I should be checking out, while I am getting ready for this thing?

I don't use a SIP for cannabis, just a store bought one for flowers. My information can't be seen as gospel for them purly. If $$ is a thing then look to Coots mix too if you swap over to soil. I think it's more simple and sounds very good.