New grower, new to forum, not sure what is causing this

[GHempster]

Hey IMA how are things going. I have been stressing out for you. Doing research. Do we have this issue crushed yet? What was your final decision?

 

[Ima Paradox]

Ok well I am going to wait it out and see if it is just a pot ash issue for another week. I am pretty confident it is not a cal mag issue, i was just going back through all of the comments and i am pretty confident that it was something from the veg stage that got it going with the tiny spots and I am also pretty confident that the problem has been arrested when i switched to mega crop going into the flower stage but this is only my third week of adding and i am going to hope that i don't have any more issues with it. I have the two other plants in my tent that are about 3 weeks behind the white widows and they are still absolutely clean and beautiful by comparison. I was struggling with the white widows trying to get the runoff ph right in the beginning and middle of the veg phase, trying different things to get them to work, then i put them in the tent to bloom and noticed the dots. I put a lot of dolomite lime in the soil before moving them to bloom and i might have pushed the ph too far in the wrong direction over time, then i have read that the ph doesnt matter so much where runoff is concerned on a soil grow, but then sooo many people have differing opinions, with megacrop, and the right basic soil i can use distilled water and the megacrop addition and come up with a water ph of right at 6.4 to 6.6 and the soil should take care of it self.

So for now i am going to let the White Widows continue as is, I will still watch them of course, but i will be paying more attention to the other two plants in the tent as they are still about 8 weeks to go to harvest, and the two I have in the veg tent also look crystal clean and everyine is going to get the mega crop treatment.

Potassium is the K. But really don't need to fix if you are feeding regular amounts. The plant has corrected itself.

So I plan to go forward and see how things turn out, I don't think i will add anything else to the mix to confuse the issue further, trying very hard to keep it simple, and simple is working for the other two plants in the tent, as well as the others that are in veg.

@Virgin ground has a great picture of a G13 Haze leaf that looks very very close to what i have going on, the lighting is different but if you look at the green part of the leaves you can see a lot of little tiny whote dots that have yet to develop into the larger masses of dead leaf brown splotches on the leaf, and i would wager that under the same lights i am using in my tent, they would be spot on the same:

I just recently went through something similar with the Mega Crop and FFOF. My soil had acidified.
I recommend a slurry test. One part soil to one part distilled. Stir and let sit for at least 15 minutes. Stir again and read your results. Reading runoff is an exercise in futility.
I ended up adding lime as well as my soil pH was in the low 5s. It can take a few weeks for the lime to bring your pH up. Multiple slurry tests showed an upward trend. I suggest you do multiple slurry tests about. Five days to a week apart to see if your soil pH is improving. I would not increase the amount of Mega Crop until you do a slurry. You will just be adding a bunch of nutes to your plant that can't use them if her pH is off.

G13 Haze

• Virgin Ground
• Sep 12, 2019

Multiple deficiencies brought on by lockout. Those spots on my pic are 100% not spider mites.
Also check out the Mega Crop thread. The Mega Crop growers and Greenleaf nutrients owner visits it and you can pick his brain as well. It's supposed to be a complete nutrient and if you are adding bloom nutes or anything else to this formula you run the risk of locking something out again or burning your plant. You can calculate substitutions, just make sure that you are being thoughtful and precise about it.

So i will be doing a slurry test on the ph over the next few weeks to see if my ph in the soil is changingdue to the pint of pelletized dolomite lime that i added to both pots when i up potted that was a lot of lime to add into just about 2 gallons of soil and was probably a major contributing factor, but it will probably take me all the way to harvest to figure it out.


And finally the ratio of megacrop per gallon can be controlled better if i were to grind up the mega crop bbs into a fine powder before mixing with water, so i will be pre-grinding all of the mega crop up and then mixing it, thank you for that as well @Virgin ground

 

[Ima Paradox]

And now for the apologies to @stoneotter @Emilya @Pman Sticky Ikky for my post quoted below:

All right, well, the lack of help is making me wonder if you guys just want the easy problems, but it has been a week now and nothing new to report, my plants are growing, i am not over watering them, nor am i over feeding them, and the ph is right on the watering (when i water) the plants appear to be doing ok, still it is just the fan leaves , slightly more of them now, but nothing really bad, under normal light they actually look pretty good. I Would still like someone who has had a similar problem chime in, but i don't know what else to write.

I seriously had no intention of being offensive, and I could have chosen my words a little more carefully, and i hope that you guys will accept my apology for what i said. The opening line I can see now, was offensive, but it was intended to be funny, and that is all i am going to say about this.

 

[farside05]

IMO, you fell prey to trying to manipulate the pH of soil. The massive additions of lime threw everything out of whack and gave you multiple deficiencies. With almost any decent quality tap water (under 200 ppm) you need not worry about pH at all in soil or peat based soil-less mediums. Mega Crop likes to self balance at about 6.5-6.6 in decent water. Do not use any of the Tiger Bloom. High Phosphorus is absolutely not necessary. Our plants use very little of it. The old philosophy of increasing Phosphorus and decreasing Nitrogen in bloom is a scientifically proven myth. Mega Crop has everything you need. For advanced users you can supplement silica and a bit of Cal Mag to play with the ratios, but it isn't necessary. 5-6mg (5/8-3/4tsp) of Mega Crop per gallon should be sufficient. If you're still concerned, run 2-3 gallons of plain ass tap water through them (assuming under 200ppm), then come back with a gallon of 6mg strength Mega Crop on top of that. It's more difficult to "flush" out soil like you can coco, but a decent what I call "rinse" may help get you back into the "reset" zone.

 

[Ima Paradox]

Look at these two pictures very closely, the tips of the fan leaves are beginning to die off, it is also showing up on a couple of the sugar leaves around the buds, this is new, so I am going to look at them again tomorrow and if it is getting worse, I am wondering do I flush the pots? Or do I just switch to pure water next watering? Will flushing help at all with the excessive amount of pelletized lime I put in the soil when uppotting 6 weeks ago?

 

[Emilya Green]

you would have to flush a long long time to physically move all that lime out of there. I know what is going on with your plants now after looking at that last picture. It is a calcium overload or more commonly known as calcium toxicity. It causes a lock-out of various nutrients such as potassium, magnesium, manganese and iron. This is going to be a very difficult grow. Not to say I told you so, but here is the result in front of you. Here is Mulder's chart to show you all the interactions all that calcium has had in your soil.

 

[Ima Paradox]

OK did some research on Mulders CHart and now I understand the arrows and stuff, But now I only have about 5 weeks to go, so maybe flushing would help? I am just now barely seeing a few growth tips just beginning to turn, and at the current rate of death on the Fan leaves I should still have a few fan leaves still hanging in there at harvest even though they will look like hell. By then some (but most will be better) of the larger sugar leaves should be (just a guess) at about 70 % still green. So the question is how much flushing and how often if at all, to get through the next 5 weeks? Or just pitch the grow to the compost now?

 

[Emilya Green]

I would at least try flushing it really really good and then going from there. Take the plant into the shower and run 20 gallons through that soil, and then follow up with a full dose of nutes. Maybe we can get enough of the antagonism out of there that the nutes will start working again... it would be a shame to stop now. Don't confuse the term flushing with just giving plain water on a watering day. Flushing means running at least 3x the container size in water through the soil... in this case... lets go about 10x that. That was a lot of dolomite and I am not at all sure that flushing will get it out of there, and this might now be a lost cause.

 

[Ima Paradox]

I agree with you, but would it hurt to like flush the plant with a full bath tub of water at one time Like 60 gallons of water? Hurt the plant I mean, as opposed to just 30 gallons of water? That would be 20 times the size of the pots themselves. I know it is a lot of water, but water is cheap, and I will have the time to do it? My concern is doing any more harm or shock to the plant, I dont want to hermie the plant at this point if it can be saved.

 

[Emilya Green]

no, it would not hurt a thing... the more water the better. Don't worry about shock... think of the plant sighing in relief instead. I think this is the best chance to get through this.

 

[Ima Paradox]

@Emilya All right, so tomorrow, I will spend the day flushing both plants, and see how many gallons I can push through it over the course of the day, It will be like the plants going through a hurricane without all the wind.

But one last question: by nutes , do you mean like a regular feeding of 6 grams of megacrop per gallon of water and 4 teaspoons of molasses split between the two plants (so a half gallon each plant)?

 

[farside05]

Forget the Molasses. Just the last gallon of water you put through each plant should be a gallon of feed (1 gallon of water with 6g of Mega Crop in it).

 

[Ima Paradox]

OK flushed them with 50 gallons of water each, water didn't clear up until about gallon number 15 on each plant, I let each plant rest for 10 minutes after every 5 gallons of flush, at the 50 gallon mark the water was clear enough to drink. Will feed them in another hour, letting them try to dry out a bit. Wife needed the shower. Anyway they are back in their home now and here are the pictures so we can compare later, I cut off all of the dead leaf portions I could find on each plant so now it will be easier to track any further damage.

 

[Ima Paradox]

well day 3 and looking good so far after the flush, so far nothing new as far as damage to the plants, might make it to harvest after all!

 

[Ima Paradox]

This is day week 6 day 3 since switching to 12-12 lights

 

[InTheShed]

trying to get the runoff ph right

ph doesnt matter so much where runoff is concerned on a soil grow

with megacrop, and the right basic soil i can use distilled water and the megacrop addition and come up with a water ph of right at 6.4 to 6.6 and the soil should take care of it self.

Sorry to jump in so late here and I've missed most of the thread, but I wanted to mention that runoff pH is nothing that needs to be measured in soil, coco, or ProMix. One less thing to worry about. Also, tap water is usually fine so save your money not buying distilled water. There are good things in tap water that plants need.

And I'm glad you're seeing improvements and looking forward to harvesting .

 

[Ima Paradox]

OK this is officially Post Numer 50 for me, and a good time to update this thread. I Flushed the White widows a week ago and have not given them any nutrition at all just the tap water flush, they appear to be doing just fine. I have not had to trim any leaves at all, no more tip burning that I can see and the bigger fan leaves are no longer dying off. Tomorrow will be week 7 day 1 of the 12-12 lighting, most of what I have read about White Widow is that it harvests at week 8 so I am starting to look at the trichomes with a 30 power loupe and I cant find ANY amber ones yet, but a few are looking a little bit cloudy. I can see lots of new pistils coming out of the tops and sides of the buds, and the sugar leaves are getting a little but more sugary. Not seing any more stretch, the plants are just barely 20 inches tall above the top of the soil. Since I am starting week seven tomorrow, I am afraid to feed them anything, the pots are still heavy from the flooding last week, but they arent wet. I think I mixed the soil waay too thick as it seems to hold a lot of water so if I feed them or water them it will be at least a few more days.

This is where you guys come in and offer me lots of advice. Here are the pictures>

ALL Photos were taken under normal light with no flash.
These are from White Widow #1

And these are from White Widow #2

 

[Ima Paradox]

Well, I looked in on my plants this morning and the White Widows are doing fine still, Decided they were ready for a little bit of a drink finally, all 4 plants felt about the same weight, but not quite dry dry dry, so I gave them all 1 quart of distilled water from my dehimidifier each. The Purple Bud and the LA SAGE were just beginning to claw the leaf tips on the fan leaves, so rather than any food I gave them pure dehimidified water as well, but they are still very green and looking nice. I will watch them for more clawing over the next few days, I am not sure if this is from the extra nitrogen in mega crop or from the highr ph from when I mixed in the dolomite lime. Might Decide to flush them in a few days if it gets any worse.

 

[TheMadDabber]

Definitely looked like a cal mag problem to me. The calcium deficiency is what causes the spots that can be commonly confused with spider mites. Good clue is that leaf curl there too. Bo remember just because there is a specific deficiency or toxicity showing doesnt mean its always cause by that specific nutrient or supplement. I have fallen victim to overdosing my plants with terpinator aka potash. And too much potassium actually will inhibit the uptake of your calcium and or magnesium. I think I noticed someone posted a reference to how they are all interwoven.

Plants look fine to me. You'll make harvest and a good one at that. Nice work.

 

[Ima Paradox]

Plants look fine to me. You'll make harvest and a good one at that. Nice work.

Thanks for the vote of confidence!