Hey, @InTheShed, @MrSauga and @Pennywise. This fella is having trouble and some say nutes and others say mites so I thought you experts might like to weigh in?? I was thinking nutes but now I am totally doubting myself.
New grower, new to forum, not sure what is causing this
- Thread starter Ima Paradox
- Start date
Yup I’ve tried it all nothing helps better then sticky traps n u can how many u have
Good to know because for me they have been the grim reaper. Knock on wood, I haven't had the cursed little beasts since I started growing again so I have been lucky but I know they are lurking out there.
- Thread starter
- #24
Ima Paradox
Well-Known Member
Wow everyone seems to be back on the mites! LOL, I have said so from the very beginning these dots only show up on that fan leaves and started showing up for the first time about a week after switching to flower, and at that time it was only the very lowest and oldest and largest fan leaves on one plant, about a week later the second plant started showing signs like the first but about 2 weeks behind, now i am in week 5 of flower and it is about 70 % of the FAN leaves only on the first plant (actually named WW#2) and about 30% on the other plant (WW#1) and none of the discoloring shows up in normal light other than an the one or two worst bottom FAN leaves and as i go up the plant each layer of FAN leaves is affected but it is less severe the higher up the plant I go. Now I will say that I would expect that after having this problem now for almost 5 weeks and it getting worse as the plants get more mature, and if I took into consideration that the dotting of each leaf grows (becomes more abundant) as the leaf gets older. And I have yet to find a bug in my tent EVER, I don't think it is mites, but rather some nutrition problem.
Some of my ideas are that i might have sweetened the soil too much when i mixed it up, as the plant grew i have changed my nute program, i mean like the beginning in the first pot (seedling stage) was just FF soil and a little bit of very old (about 7 years old) Miracle Grow, mistake number 1 in my opinion, then about 3 weeks or so later took plant out of the 3 inch pot and up potted into an 8 inch (size approximate) blue flower pot with FFOF soil and converted my nutes to some band new TIGER BLOOM Extra Strength 2-8-4 and used that in accordance with the instructions on the back for general feeding for a couple of waterings and then upped to Heavy feeding, plants looked good but weren't growing very big or tall ( but all nice and green and NOT dark olive green but more like normal plant green ( whatever that means)
After about 2 weeks of watering under a heavy feeding dosage, my megacrop ferts arrived and i noticed that its NPK was WAAYYYY higher. MegaCrop at 9-6-17 compared to Tiger Bloom at 2-8-4 and it was getting time to up pot to the cloth pots and move into the flowering tent, and the flowering tent has different lights that my veg closet on other side of the house. As soon as I put the plants under the floweing tent lights, I first noticed the spotting beginning on WW#2 but I figured it was from the lower Tiger Bloom NPK and since I had just up potted the plants to a 3 gallon pot with more FF soil and this soil i added a whole pint of Pelletized Lime (dry and still in the pellets to the soil( The lime was to no longer have to worry about the ph of the runoff water wich i dont worry abourt now because i get a runoff of right at 6 and the input water is phed at 6.5 ) so I dont believe i have a PH Problem any more) and watered with my first dose of the MUCH Higher NPK Megacrop at 6 grams per gallon as per its instructions for flowering (full Bloom)( My bad just caught that reading the bag...it should have been 5 grams per gallon first 4 weeks of bloom or so...
I figure the problem was fixed, but after about 3 weeks of actual blooming it had gotten worse and that prompted me to come here.
Now I am into bloom at 5 weeks with 4 to 5 to go, not seeing very much stretch at all now height of the light is at 18 inches give or take to the majority of the top colas (one or two could be around 15 inches) I am thinking the plants will make it to harvest just fine, but the fan leaves will be depleted and that actually MAY be just fine, I dont know, alot of journals say the fan leaves feed the plant when nutes are out of balance and flowering does some crazy shit to the plant (just as much as pregnancy does some crazy shit to women, i know it isn't the same thing but you get the idea)
SO now I have two questions:
IF it is spider mites..... but i have no signs of the actual bug, I mean no webs, no little bitty bugs, no eggs, no bug turds (excrement if you prefer) all of which are visible to the naked eye on almost every picture i have seen on the web, will someone please tell me how to find the bugs, i have looked at every part of the plant for the little bugs from the lowest fan leaf, on every sing leaf that has no other sign then the mottling of the leaf,
if i go to the store monday and buy the stupid yellow traps and hang them all aver inside my 2x4x5 tent lets say i bay 12 traps, put 4 at the top corners 4 at the middle corners and 4 closer to soil level, then i got to wait a couple more days and IF I find them (which I seriously doubt I will) then i need to get rid of them which is done HOW?
If it is a NUTE problem with all of the changes i have made on this grow, how do i correct it? Only Stone Otter has suggested it is a nute issue and he suspected it might be a LOW Phospherus issue which i am thinking it may be but i only have about 4 weeks to figure it out and even less to actually see any results from what i do before I harvest, the plants are still doing ok the mega crop seems to be working fine on keeping the plant alive but keep in mind its NPK is 9-6-17 and tiger Bloom is 2-8-4 so if i used both at the recommended dosage, but used both dosages on the same gallon of water, would my total NPK then be 11-14-21... are they additive... if so .. this would improve my P and my K but my N would be way too high i think.
Or could it be something else like boron deficiency or something crazy
Oh and one last thing I forgot to add that I have started adding 4 tsp of unsluphered molasses per gallon of water not sure what that does to the input ph of the water, but my runoff is still at 5.98 to 6.2 today and this is the second time I have added the molasses but I think that is mostly a little more cal mag boost for the plant.
I have 2 other plants in the tent that are just starting to flower so i am on like week1 day 3 of bloom for those two plants and they are two med plants that i started for my wife so i am more concerned that they do not wend up the same way so i am watching them grow right alongside the two plants we are discussing so far, they are NOT infected at all with the micro spotted leaves, and the soil mix is a little different, it doesnt have all that dolomite lime in the soil that i put in on the white widows and it has an extra bag of perilite added to the soil, but if it is a nute problem i am hoping to figure it out so i can do better on the LA Sage and the Purple Bud plant that are in the tent.
Some of my ideas are that i might have sweetened the soil too much when i mixed it up, as the plant grew i have changed my nute program, i mean like the beginning in the first pot (seedling stage) was just FF soil and a little bit of very old (about 7 years old) Miracle Grow, mistake number 1 in my opinion, then about 3 weeks or so later took plant out of the 3 inch pot and up potted into an 8 inch (size approximate) blue flower pot with FFOF soil and converted my nutes to some band new TIGER BLOOM Extra Strength 2-8-4 and used that in accordance with the instructions on the back for general feeding for a couple of waterings and then upped to Heavy feeding, plants looked good but weren't growing very big or tall ( but all nice and green and NOT dark olive green but more like normal plant green ( whatever that means)
After about 2 weeks of watering under a heavy feeding dosage, my megacrop ferts arrived and i noticed that its NPK was WAAYYYY higher. MegaCrop at 9-6-17 compared to Tiger Bloom at 2-8-4 and it was getting time to up pot to the cloth pots and move into the flowering tent, and the flowering tent has different lights that my veg closet on other side of the house. As soon as I put the plants under the floweing tent lights, I first noticed the spotting beginning on WW#2 but I figured it was from the lower Tiger Bloom NPK and since I had just up potted the plants to a 3 gallon pot with more FF soil and this soil i added a whole pint of Pelletized Lime (dry and still in the pellets to the soil( The lime was to no longer have to worry about the ph of the runoff water wich i dont worry abourt now because i get a runoff of right at 6 and the input water is phed at 6.5 ) so I dont believe i have a PH Problem any more) and watered with my first dose of the MUCH Higher NPK Megacrop at 6 grams per gallon as per its instructions for flowering (full Bloom)( My bad just caught that reading the bag...it should have been 5 grams per gallon first 4 weeks of bloom or so...
I figure the problem was fixed, but after about 3 weeks of actual blooming it had gotten worse and that prompted me to come here.
Now I am into bloom at 5 weeks with 4 to 5 to go, not seeing very much stretch at all now height of the light is at 18 inches give or take to the majority of the top colas (one or two could be around 15 inches) I am thinking the plants will make it to harvest just fine, but the fan leaves will be depleted and that actually MAY be just fine, I dont know, alot of journals say the fan leaves feed the plant when nutes are out of balance and flowering does some crazy shit to the plant (just as much as pregnancy does some crazy shit to women, i know it isn't the same thing but you get the idea)
SO now I have two questions:
IF it is spider mites..... but i have no signs of the actual bug, I mean no webs, no little bitty bugs, no eggs, no bug turds (excrement if you prefer) all of which are visible to the naked eye on almost every picture i have seen on the web, will someone please tell me how to find the bugs, i have looked at every part of the plant for the little bugs from the lowest fan leaf, on every sing leaf that has no other sign then the mottling of the leaf,
if i go to the store monday and buy the stupid yellow traps and hang them all aver inside my 2x4x5 tent lets say i bay 12 traps, put 4 at the top corners 4 at the middle corners and 4 closer to soil level, then i got to wait a couple more days and IF I find them (which I seriously doubt I will) then i need to get rid of them which is done HOW?
If it is a NUTE problem with all of the changes i have made on this grow, how do i correct it? Only Stone Otter has suggested it is a nute issue and he suspected it might be a LOW Phospherus issue which i am thinking it may be but i only have about 4 weeks to figure it out and even less to actually see any results from what i do before I harvest, the plants are still doing ok the mega crop seems to be working fine on keeping the plant alive but keep in mind its NPK is 9-6-17 and tiger Bloom is 2-8-4 so if i used both at the recommended dosage, but used both dosages on the same gallon of water, would my total NPK then be 11-14-21... are they additive... if so .. this would improve my P and my K but my N would be way too high i think.
Or could it be something else like boron deficiency or something crazy
Oh and one last thing I forgot to add that I have started adding 4 tsp of unsluphered molasses per gallon of water not sure what that does to the input ph of the water, but my runoff is still at 5.98 to 6.2 today and this is the second time I have added the molasses but I think that is mostly a little more cal mag boost for the plant.
I have 2 other plants in the tent that are just starting to flower so i am on like week1 day 3 of bloom for those two plants and they are two med plants that i started for my wife so i am more concerned that they do not wend up the same way so i am watching them grow right alongside the two plants we are discussing so far, they are NOT infected at all with the micro spotted leaves, and the soil mix is a little different, it doesnt have all that dolomite lime in the soil that i put in on the white widows and it has an extra bag of perilite added to the soil, but if it is a nute problem i am hoping to figure it out so i can do better on the LA Sage and the Purple Bud plant that are in the tent.
GHempster
Well-Known Member
Hi IMA I'm no expert but from what I see your plant used an abundance of Potassium ( normal going into flower ) and had to use the fan leaves for some that it was missing. The leaves will dry up. As long as you are feeding her she will make it.
The yellow traps couldnt hurt but you should have seen bugs if it was bugs.
The yellow traps couldnt hurt but you should have seen bugs if it was bugs.
- Thread starter
- #26
Ima Paradox
Well-Known Member
that is
potassium or phospherus and is either one the P in the NPK on fertilizer ratios? everyone says it is cal , or mag, or any of the other 20 or so minerals, chemicals or nutrients, I am tempted to agree with you @GHempster, but i would like to try to fix it in the next week or so even though any improvement would only be neglegable, so how to you boost or improve the short fall on potassium
[USER=272536]@stoneotter same question but phospherus which one is the P in npk
Mega crop has in the guaranteed analysis : ..... Available Phosphate (P205) 6%.....
and the says in a blurb titled Derived From :.... Monopotassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate ....
So I am assuming it is in the megacrop and both af you are referring to the same thing. if so i could booost the NPK to different levels by playing with my water and ferts on the next watering and i have about 5 days or mere before i need to water again so i have time to figure out what mix to use and hopefully see some changes in the last two or three weeks
If it is a NUTE problem with all of the changes i have made on this grow, how do i correct it? Only Stone Otter has suggested it is a nute issue and he suspected it might be a LOW Phospherus issue which i am thinking it may be but i only have about 4 weeks to figure it out and even less to actually see any results from what i do before I harvest, the plants are still doing ok the mega crop seems to be working fine on keeping the plant alive but keep in mind its NPK is 9-6-17 and tiger Bloom is 2-8-4 so if i used both at the recommended dosage, but used both dosages on the same gallon of water, would my total NPK then be 11-14-21... are they additive... if so .. this would improve my P and my K but my N would be way too high i think.
so if instead I add 3 grams megacrop to a half gallon and the 2 tsp the tiger bloom to the other 1/2 gallon of water and the NPKs are additive, i should end up with 1 gallon of the average between the two which would be 5.5 - 7 - 10.5
or even 3 quarts with 4.5 grams mega crop and 1 quart and 1 teaspoon Tiger Bloom for an average of NPK of
7.25 - 6.5 - 13.75
or just the Tiger Bloom at 4 tsp to 1 gallon of water NPK should be 2-8-4 and i dont mind the drop in nitrogen at this point and that would give me the highest P of the choices using stuff i have on hand but it would kill my K which is from what i remember about fertilizers the K really helps drought resistance and for some reason i kinda think the super high K in megacrop is all about better blooms, but i cant say why i think that, it is just in the back of my head that way.
potassium or phospherus and is either one the P in the NPK on fertilizer ratios? everyone says it is cal , or mag, or any of the other 20 or so minerals, chemicals or nutrients, I am tempted to agree with you @GHempster, but i would like to try to fix it in the next week or so even though any improvement would only be neglegable, so how to you boost or improve the short fall on potassium
[USER=272536]@stoneotter same question but phospherus which one is the P in npk
Mega crop has in the guaranteed analysis : ..... Available Phosphate (P205) 6%.....
and the says in a blurb titled Derived From :.... Monopotassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate ....
So I am assuming it is in the megacrop and both af you are referring to the same thing. if so i could booost the NPK to different levels by playing with my water and ferts on the next watering and i have about 5 days or mere before i need to water again so i have time to figure out what mix to use and hopefully see some changes in the last two or three weeks
If it is a NUTE problem with all of the changes i have made on this grow, how do i correct it? Only Stone Otter has suggested it is a nute issue and he suspected it might be a LOW Phospherus issue which i am thinking it may be but i only have about 4 weeks to figure it out and even less to actually see any results from what i do before I harvest, the plants are still doing ok the mega crop seems to be working fine on keeping the plant alive but keep in mind its NPK is 9-6-17 and tiger Bloom is 2-8-4 so if i used both at the recommended dosage, but used both dosages on the same gallon of water, would my total NPK then be 11-14-21... are they additive... if so .. this would improve my P and my K but my N would be way too high i think.
so if instead I add 3 grams megacrop to a half gallon and the 2 tsp the tiger bloom to the other 1/2 gallon of water and the NPKs are additive, i should end up with 1 gallon of the average between the two which would be 5.5 - 7 - 10.5
or even 3 quarts with 4.5 grams mega crop and 1 quart and 1 teaspoon Tiger Bloom for an average of NPK of
7.25 - 6.5 - 13.75
or just the Tiger Bloom at 4 tsp to 1 gallon of water NPK should be 2-8-4 and i dont mind the drop in nitrogen at this point and that would give me the highest P of the choices using stuff i have on hand but it would kill my K which is from what i remember about fertilizers the K really helps drought resistance and for some reason i kinda think the super high K in megacrop is all about better blooms, but i cant say why i think that, it is just in the back of my head that way.
GHempster
Well-Known Member
Potassium is the K. But really don't need to fix if you are feeding regular amounts. The plant has corrected itself.
The leaves you removes they were not easy to remove right? Like they didn't come off like a dead leaf even rhough they looked liked it. Am I right with this statement?
I recommend not removing leaves until the plant drops them as she will use what she needs from the leaf. If removed she will go to another leaf a little higher up and so on.
Just let her do her thing. Feed normal. if using a flowering nute it will be higher in potassium anyways.
The leaves you removes they were not easy to remove right? Like they didn't come off like a dead leaf even rhough they looked liked it. Am I right with this statement?
I recommend not removing leaves until the plant drops them as she will use what she needs from the leaf. If removed she will go to another leaf a little higher up and so on.
Just let her do her thing. Feed normal. if using a flowering nute it will be higher in potassium anyways.
GHempster
Well-Known Member
I don't use all those nutes as I find expensive and issues seem abundant. I use dry amendments and supplements if needed. The supplement I would use in this case would have been a foliar spray and watering using 1/2 teaspoon on 5 gal water of Potassium 0-0-50 and I would have added 1/8 teaspoon of phosphorus. But this would have been normal watering nothing extra do to issue.
I use a water soluble supplement from NPK Industries it is the strongest water soluble supplements on the market. I am trying to get them as sponsor here.
You can see some of the dried crusty leaves in this pic they were like that since the onset of flower and this was close to harvest
I use a water soluble supplement from NPK Industries it is the strongest water soluble supplements on the market. I am trying to get them as sponsor here.
You can see some of the dried crusty leaves in this pic they were like that since the onset of flower and this was close to harvest
GHempster
Well-Known Member
The leaves wont get better but the problem should be going away. The new growth should be fine is it? Any new pics?
You sound like a very competent grower that is why I believe you when you say no bugs as they are easy to spot. Take pic of underside of leaf if you can
You sound like a very competent grower that is why I believe you when you say no bugs as they are easy to spot. Take pic of underside of leaf if you can
HugePeckerhead
Well-Known Member
Haven't read this through yet but I was having the same.problems with my white widow and it wasn't mites. they were just SUPER heavy feeders on cal mag specially using LED too
It’s a nutrient issue, feed mega crop at the 5g per gallons. Drop the tiger bloom. Use additional calmag, the affected leaves should be left on the plant for now. Those leaves are supplying what your nutes are not. It will take time for the plant to recover, nutes don’t work instantly. Follow Emilyas advise on ph values.
I just recently went through something similar with the Mega Crop and FFOF. My soil had acidified.
I recommend a slurry test. One part soil to one part distilled. Stir and let sit for at least 15 minutes. Stir again and read your results. Reading runoff is an exercise in futility.
I ended up adding lime as well as my soil pH was in the low 5s. It can take a few weeks for the lime to bring your pH up. Multiple slurry tests showed an upward trend. I suggest you do multiple slurry tests about. Five days to a week apart to see if your soil pH is improving. I would not increase the amount of Mega Crop until you do a slurry. You will just be adding a bunch of nutes to your plant that can't use them if her pH is off.
Multiple deficiencies brought on by lockout. Those spots on my pic are 100% not spider mites.
Also check out the Mega Crop thread. The Mega Crop growers and Greenleaf nutrients owner visits it and you can pick his brain as well. It's supposed to be a complete nutrient and if you are adding bloom nutes or anything else to this formula you run the risk of locking something out again or burning your plant. You can calculate substitutions, just make sure that you are being thoughtful and precise about it.
I recommend a slurry test. One part soil to one part distilled. Stir and let sit for at least 15 minutes. Stir again and read your results. Reading runoff is an exercise in futility.
I ended up adding lime as well as my soil pH was in the low 5s. It can take a few weeks for the lime to bring your pH up. Multiple slurry tests showed an upward trend. I suggest you do multiple slurry tests about. Five days to a week apart to see if your soil pH is improving. I would not increase the amount of Mega Crop until you do a slurry. You will just be adding a bunch of nutes to your plant that can't use them if her pH is off.
Also check out the Mega Crop thread. The Mega Crop growers and Greenleaf nutrients owner visits it and you can pick his brain as well. It's supposed to be a complete nutrient and if you are adding bloom nutes or anything else to this formula you run the risk of locking something out again or burning your plant. You can calculate substitutions, just make sure that you are being thoughtful and precise about it.
The Mega Crop Thread
i am switching up to mega crop. i am currently in hempy, and MC is gaining popularity in that grow style. it is being used for others as well. i am looking for anyone posting their experience with MC. of course hempy is more relevant, but i am interested in how it performs in any media. would...
www.420magazine.com
Excellent advice VG.
10gal
Well-Known Member
I know what the problem is, but you are insanely rude, so....
Apologize to everyone and maybe I will fix your problem for you.
Apologize to everyone and maybe I will fix your problem for you.
You are going to want to look at how both @InTheShed. And the GLN owner suggest mixing Mega Crop. It isn't really designed to mix small amounts like most of our hobby growers use. The NPK values can get skewed easy. This could be one of your major problems.
Suggestions included pulverising the mix in a blender or mixing larger amounts with water to make a liquid concentrate.
Suggestions included pulverising the mix in a blender or mixing larger amounts with water to make a liquid concentrate.
- Thread starter
- #36
Ima Paradox
Well-Known Member
@GHempster ok so now i went in and laid some white typing paper under the two plants just below the lowest leaves and tickled, and vibrated ALL of the leaves of each of the two plants in question and then found nothing on any of the papers except the occasional speck of bio matter , i could see no visible bugs at all, wiped the paper with my hand and saw no streaks for would would have been smeared bugs so now i am 100% positive that I do NOT have any kind of bug infestation on my plants .
that being said, yes the leaves do still hold on until they are totally brown and withered i pulled one that was about 70% brown bust still had some green in it and it pulled off with almost no resistance and it pulled off cleanly ( no strand running up the stem) but it was holding on when i pulled it, this was one of the lowest leaves on the plant and here are the pictures of the leaf
Underside Topside
please notice the little bitty dots on the green part of the leaf, those are the dots on every fan leaf but NOT on any of the Sugar leaves, eventually a couple dots get close enough together to make a little bitty blob and the necrosis begins on the leaf, it seems to start near the tips of the leaves and works its way back towards the center over time.i am thinking that most of the fan leaves will still be attached to the plat ant harvest but just barely, but i will be OK with the plant. I was and still am concerned more about the other two plants in the tent as they are still PERFECT, with no blemishes at all and are in their first week of flower, and groing right next to the White Widows, this is what makes me certain that i do not have a bug problem, and i want to keep my plants growing right with out the necrosis.
that being said, yes the leaves do still hold on until they are totally brown and withered i pulled one that was about 70% brown bust still had some green in it and it pulled off with almost no resistance and it pulled off cleanly ( no strand running up the stem) but it was holding on when i pulled it, this was one of the lowest leaves on the plant and here are the pictures of the leaf
Underside Topside
please notice the little bitty dots on the green part of the leaf, those are the dots on every fan leaf but NOT on any of the Sugar leaves, eventually a couple dots get close enough together to make a little bitty blob and the necrosis begins on the leaf, it seems to start near the tips of the leaves and works its way back towards the center over time.i am thinking that most of the fan leaves will still be attached to the plat ant harvest but just barely, but i will be OK with the plant. I was and still am concerned more about the other two plants in the tent as they are still PERFECT, with no blemishes at all and are in their first week of flower, and groing right next to the White Widows, this is what makes me certain that i do not have a bug problem, and i want to keep my plants growing right with out the necrosis.
- Thread starter
- #37
Ima Paradox
Well-Known Member
PLease tell me where i was rude, i will gladly apologize if i have offended anyone, but to just say that i am rude with no justification and telling me to apologize to everyone... i dont get it.. and the to offer to "fix my problem if i do" i also dont get, you have never chimed in and still havent offered any solutions other than to flame me for being rude without any example of where or how i was rude to anyone.
GHempster
Well-Known Member
To me all seems good, she might look bad but IMO it is best to leave on. I believe this was just how the plant went into flower especially if no signs on other plants. Most likely she has already made it through her extreme use and will just look bad from here on in. No other leaves ( new growth ) should show these signs. Focus on new growth and not on the nasty looking leaves.
I think we will be fine from here on out. Just keep an eye on the new growth for what she is telling you now.
I don't think you were being rude just frustrated that you cannot get problem fixed. We all grow different but all wanna help this can lead to a number of possible solutions. As a grower it is up to you who you wanna listen to and what solutions you wanna try. Just document what you do so we all know better in the future.
I think we will be fine from here on out. Just keep an eye on the new growth for what she is telling you now.
I don't think you were being rude just frustrated that you cannot get problem fixed. We all grow different but all wanna help this can lead to a number of possible solutions. As a grower it is up to you who you wanna listen to and what solutions you wanna try. Just document what you do so we all know better in the future.
- Thread starter
- #39
Ima Paradox
Well-Known Member
I like this idea, i can remeber that 6 grams is a like less that a half of a teaspoon and there are big round BBs of different sizes in the dry mis as well as very fine powder and there are times when i do this i get what i think are more or less of the BBs in the mix so i am sure that the fert mix has been varying each time, and a blender would definitely fix that, thank you for that input.
