Need help, living soil, pots too small mid flower

[013]

Hey glad to help!

Good deal on having SRP on hand!! While I don’t pretend to fully understand all the implications of SRP… Mr Gee advised to get it in early at transplant and to refresh with small amount every few weeks.

Ok so the first part is don’t fill your bags too full, leave some room, I like 2 inches free space between top of soil and edges of grow bag, but yes leave room for continued top dress. 2nd part is once you make up your final container and do the transplant….. adding a mulch layer on top helps retain moisture and improve soil tilth… possibly helping to stave off the crust layer. But really the crust is all about calcium deficiency not the absence or presence of a mulch layer. Yes sir my soil was or has been crusted over for long time but I didn’t grasp the implications until Gee plainly stated yep soil crust is telling you that you are calcium deficient.

Anywho I like rice hulls as mulch layer but also have this funny mental thing about using a mulch layer… I leave it in place mostly undisturbed but I do regularly part the mulch layer to check for soil crust. The second I see a crust layer I sweep the rice hulls off the top soil put them in a tray, go in and plow the top soil about 3/4’s of an inch deep. Yes break up all the chunks to fine powder like soil… Apply more EWC and aim for even coverage, it’s optional but I like to add small amount if gypsum here too, next water the castings in, add back the mulch layer and water again from top. Speaking of water I’m pretty biased or preferential to using quart sized pump sprayer, for me pouring water is bad news which causes the soil to settle & get compacted. It allows me full control of what gets watered & how much… as opposed to pouring water or using a water sprinkler can.

Yes casting are the go-to bomb cause everything is there, worm food turned to worm shit, calcium & microbes etc. I’m using purchased EWC but plan to buy the trays for a worm farm so I can do it myself. Yep on castings but I often evenly scatter small amount of gypsum in as well, so after removing mulch layer… I plow first, add EWC second, bit of gypsum goes in third, spray water 4th, reapply mulch layer 5th, spray more water on mulch layer as last step

 

[SmokingWings]

And as for my little plants, their really bad
Most, if not, on some of the plants, all of the bigger leaves have gone yellow and fallen off.
I did notice it starting with the smaller plants a few weeks back, and that’s why I came on here for advice.
I didn’t add nutrients like I was gunna, cos I was hoping, with the living soil and messing it up with bottled nutes, to get through,

You have to figure that if the plant was outside growing in the ground the size taken up by the root system is approximately the same size as the stems and leaves above ground. However, the plant now is in a small container so all the roots the plant grew so that they could absorb the water and nutrients the plant needs are crammed into a small amount of soil.

No matter how good the "living soil" is if we are trying to grow a large plant in a small amount of soil then we will start to have problems before very long. Eventually the plant is so large that it just cannot get enough nutrients from that soil no matter how much time we spend watching them and thinking that they will.

In the earlier photos it looks like a good job up to now. Lotsa decent sized buds growing and still a good number of leaves left on the plants.

 

[Kaldean]

Hey glad to help!

Good deal on having SRP on hand!! While I don’t pretend to fully understand all the implications of SRP… Mr Gee advised to get it in early at transplant and to refresh with small amount every few weeks.

Ok so the first part is don’t fill your bags too full, leave some room, I like 2 inches free space between top of soil and edges of grow bag, but yes leave room for continued top dress. 2nd part is once you make up your final container and do the transplant….. adding a mulch layer on top helps retain moisture and improve soil tilth… possibly helping to stave off the crust layer. But really the crust is all about calcium deficiency not the absence or presence of a mulch layer. Yes sir my soil was or has been crusted over for long time but I didn’t grasp the implications until Gee plainly stated yep soil crust is telling you that you are calcium deficient.

Anywho I like rice hulls as mulch layer but also have this funny mental thing about using a mulch layer… I leave it in place mostly undisturbed but I do regularly part the mulch layer to check for soil crust. The second I see a crust layer I sweep the rice hulls off the top soil put them in a tray, go in and plow the top soil about 3/4’s of an inch deep. Yes break up all the chunks to fine powder like soil… Apply more EWC and aim for even coverage, it’s optional but I like to add small amount if gypsum here too, next water the castings in, add back the mulch layer and water again from top. Speaking of water I’m pretty biased or preferential to using quart sized pump sprayer, for me pouring water is bad news which causes the soil to settle & get compacted. It allows me full control of what gets watered & how much… as opposed to pouring water or using a water sprinkler can.

Yes casting are the go-to bomb cause everything is there, worm food turned to worm shit, calcium & microbes etc. I’m using purchased EWC but plan to buy the trays for a worm farm so I can do it myself. Yep on castings but I often evenly scatter small amount of gypsum in as well, so after removing mulch layer… I plow first, add EWC second, bit of gypsum goes in third, spray water 4th, reapply mulch layer 5th, spray more water on mulch layer as last step

Thank you mate, I will have to have a few reads of all the info you’ve given me to get my head round it.
And yeah I understand now that having the amendment stuff on hand is pretty much a must with the living soil.
But you know, have to start somewhere don’t we
I’m starting to grasp how this works now
Just one thing mate, with the castings and gypsum, is there a set amount ?
My main ones are in 12L fabric pots,
Is it a certain amount per litre, or just sprinkle some on ?
And thanks once again my friend

 

[Kaldean]

You have to figure that if the plant was outside growing in the ground the size taken up by the root system is approximately the same size as the stems and leaves above ground. However, the plant now is in a small container so all the roots the plant grew so that they could absorb the water and nutrients the plant needs are crammed into a small amount of soil.

No matter how good the "living soil" is if we are trying to grow a large plant in a small amount of soil then we will start to have problems before very long. Eventually the plant is so large that it just cannot get enough nutrients from that soil no matter how much time we spend watching them and thinking that they will.

In the earlier photos it looks like a good job up to now. Lotsa decent sized buds growing and still a good number of leaves left on the plants.

Hello @SmokingWings , and yes mate, I understand what your saying, it makes sense the way you put it.
Sort of forcing big plants from small pots with the adding of amendments and the teas, with ya my friend
And yeah, as for my smaller plants, they looked pretty good a couple of weeks ago, but where I wasn’t prepared like I should of been with the living soil thing, it’s gone crap pretty quick.
But hopefully I will get through the last week or 2.
And I must say, the buds are pretty fat, I think there the biggest v ever grown, and that’s why this way has grabbed my attention.
If you get prepared properly then your gunna get good result.
Thank you mate for your help and advice, it’s very much appreciated

 

[013]

Thank you mate, I will have to have a few reads of all the info you’ve given me to get my head round it.
And yeah I understand now that having the amendment stuff on hand is pretty much a must with the living soil.
But you know, have to start somewhere don’t we
I’m starting to grasp how this works now
Just one thing mate, with the castings and gypsum, is there a set amount ?
My main ones are in 12L fabric pots,
Is it a certain amount per litre, or just sprinkle some on ?
And thanks once again my friend

Not aware of any specific measurements for that stuff. I’m a wing by the seat of my pants kinda grower, but would probs cover the pot with 1/4 inch of castings and small measure like 1/4 cup of gypsum…. but if you feel you need more data then might help to ask some over at Gee64’s joint.

I’m happy to help but at only 4 years growing- I’m still the newbiest greenhorn in town!

So here’s the deal, even tho we are swicking that’s considered way to small bag for living soil. By all means give it a whirl but kinda willing to bet you will hit deficiencies before mid flower. It’s the old big plant is writing checks that a small container can’t cash kind of deal. But I’ve been wrong plenty before and hope for your sake that I’m wrong here.

Most living soil peeps aim for 15 gallons minimum. Yes I squeak by with 7 gallons but I’m pushing the combo of soil mix, nutes & amendment pretty hard.

Hey have great evening my friend, thanks a bunch!!!

 

[Kaldean]

Not aware of any specific measurements for that stuff. I’m a wing by the seat of my pants kinda grower, but would probs cover the pot with 1/4 inch of castings and small measure like 1/4 cup of gypsum…. but if you feel you need more data then might help to ask some over at Gee64’s joint.

I’m happy to help but at only 4 years growing I’m still the newbiest greenhorn in town!

So here’s the deal, even tho we are swicking that’s considered way to small bag for living soil. By all means give it a whirl but kinda willing to bet you will hit deficiencies before mid flower. It’s the old big plant is writing checks that a small container can’t cash kind of deal. But I’ve been wrong plenty before and hope for your sake that I’m wrong here.

Most living soil peeps aim for 15 gallons minimum. Yes I squeak by with 7 gallons but I’m pushing the combo of soil mix, nutes & amendment pretty hard.

Hey have great evening my friend, thanks a bunch!!!

Yes mate, I did read before I started this grow that you need big pots for living soil
Obviously another oops a daisy
But you know mate, all trial and error lol,
I obvious went in a little blind, I was more concerned about the chlorine thing tbh , and didn’t dream about amendments And stuff, and I’m gunna tag @Gee64 on here, and hopefully, if he has time to go through this he will see my issues, if not I will send him a message,
Thank you @013 for all your help and advice, it’s very much appreciated my friend

 

[013]

That’s ok but no mistake cause we squashed that bug!
I’m on well water so never cared or tested but yes offgas or otherwise mitigate that chlorine noise.

Yes I defer to the Gee man, and am happy to have my half looped, brain dead mistakes corrected. I can spin an idea but he can tell you if it’s on point or how to steer around my potential mistakes with ease.

Hey thanks for asking my friend but yes let’s get real answers so I don’t put you in the ditch!!

 

[Kaldean]

That’s ok but no mistake cause we squashed that bug!
I’m on well water so never cared or tested but yes offgas or otherwise mitigate that chlorine noise.

Yes I defer to the Gee man, and am happy to have my half looped, brain dead mistakes corrected. I can spin an idea but he can tell you if it’s on point or how to steer around my potential mistakes with ease.

Hey thanks for asking my friend but yes let’s get real answers so I don’t put you in the ditch!!

No mate your been a great help, opened my eyes to all sorts, and how to give the plants what they need without using chemicals,
You, and the other guys on this post have given me a good insight into this living soil growing, and my appreciation goes out to all of yous for that
And iv sent Gee64 a message and hopefully he will help if he has time
Thanks again mate

 

[budnoob3]

Agree 100% on pot size, 10ga is majority and 25ga for my favorite staples. I can’t speak to the gypsum but I get by with worms, EWC, compost, seaweed, bone meal, and unbleached flour as dressings and teas minus the flour.

 

[Gee64]

@013 and @Makeminefullgrown and @NOOOBIENOT all have some excellent advice here. Can I see some current pictures?

Also, Gaia Green, Geo Flora, or the ferts you posted pictures of are all both excellent ferts AND excellent topdressings.

@g-one-three grows great plants with Gaia, and many have succeeded with Geoflora.

Come on over to The GeeSpot in my signature if you like and post your issue there where a bunch of organic folks can chime in. If you have a grow journal going feel free to drop the link in Geespot and the Gang can come to you.

 

[Kaldean]

Agree 100% on pot size, 10ga is majority and 25ga for my favorite staples. I can’t speak to the gypsum but I get by with worms, EWC, compost, seaweed, bone meal, and unbleached flour as dressings and teas minus the flour.

Hi @budnoob3 , and yeah when @013 mentioned the pot size my heart sank lol, I’ve got lots to learn but with the Geespot, I’m sure yous fellas will steer me in the right direction
Thank you for the reply budnoob3

 

[budnoob3]

And yuck to chlorine, I collect rain and fortunate to have a stream running through the yard as backup. I highly recommend avoiding the tap as much as possible or installing RO (reverse osmosis) if other options aren’t available.

 

[budnoob3]

Hi @budnoob3 , and yeah when @013 mentioned the pot size my heart sank lol, I’ve got lots to learn but with the Geespot, I’m sure yous fellas will steer me in the right direction
Thank you for the reply budnoob3

Yes, gee and the crew are very happy to help and very knowledgeable so you can’t go wrong there. There are many other growers with various specialties that may not be organic that are extremely helpful and knowledgeable as well so feel free to explore!

 

[Kaldean]

@013 and @Makeminefullgrown and @NOOOBIENOT all have some excellent advice here. Can I see some current pictures?

Also, Gaia Green, Geo Flora, or the ferts you posted pictures of are all both excellent ferts AND excellent topdressings.

@g-one-three grows great plants with Gaia, and many have succeeded with Geoflora.

Come on over to The GeeSpot in my signature if you like and post your issue there where a bunch of organic folks can chime in. If you have a grow journal going feel free to drop the link in Geespot and the Gang can come to you.

Hi @Gee64
And thank you for getting back.
I will go over to the Geespot tomorrow with some pics, it’s getting late now and I have to get up lol,
But I must warn you, the little ones are pretty much a mess,
But tbh, i very much doubt there’s anything I can do about them,
Hopefully I can get to harvest with something, their at 59 days since the flip.
So I’m guessing a few weeks left.
it’s my main ones that I don’t want going the same way, and I’m getting signs of deficiencies.
So yeah, I will get over there for help lol, thank you for your help @Gee64
It’s very much appreciated

 

[Kaldean]

And yuck to chlorine, I collect rain and fortunate to have a stream running through the yard as backup. I highly recommend avoiding the tap as much as possible or installing RO (reverse osmosis) if other options aren’t available.

Yes mate the chlorine isn’t good is it,
I was looking into getting a RO unit that goes under the sink.
But where I’m living I only have a small window to get the grow started and finished, so it’s all kinda done in a rush,
But you know Nate, learn by your mistakes , hopefully lol
I’ve seen the eco thrive chlorine eliminator, does that stuff work do you know ?

 

[Kaldean]

Yes, gee and the crew are very happy to help and very knowledgeable so you can’t go wrong there. There are many other growers with various specialties that may not be organic that are extremely helpful and knowledgeable as well so feel free to explore!

I will be getting over there at some point tomorrow @budnoob3
Thank you mate

 

[budnoob3]

Yes mate the chlorine isn’t good is it,
I was looking into getting a RO unit that goes under the sink.
But where I’m living I only have a small window to get the grow started and finished, so it’s all kinda done in a rush,
But you know Nate, learn by your mistakes , hopefully lol
I’ve seen the eco thrive chlorine eliminator, does that stuff work do you know ?

I honestly don’t know much about over the counter stuff beyond Neem oil and SNS for organic pesticide. I try to be as close to 100% organic as is possible and try to make all my own stuff. Primarily because I want to build healthy and reusable soil so there’s something left for our children and grandchildren and so on. Also I got into 420 growing for health reasons and have making concentrates for medicine and didn’t trust anyone else to provide because commercially most meds are made with larf and sugar leaf rather than premium organic flower. When you’re trying to beat cancer you probably should try to avoid taking in pesticide, etc. So while I may promote organic and hope everyone eventually adopts it in the future, I try to avoid being a zealot and argue my case objectively without judgements against other methods. I learned a lot from being open to other ideas.

 

[Azimuth]

Chlorine and chloramine are two ways most municipalities deal with bacteria in their water. Chlorine will off gas simply by leaving your water sit in an open container overnight, but not so for chloramine which is why many municipalities are switching over to it.

But both can be almost instantly dropped out of solution with a small amount of vitamin C which can be found in small tablets in the vitamin section of your grocery store.

So, if all you have is chlorine in your water just let it sit out exposed to open air 24 hours or so, or aerate it with an air stone if you need to use it sooner, but for chloramine you'd need to use the vit C.

Your municipality should have a water quality report available which will tell you which of the two (or both) that they use.

 

[Kaldean]

Chlorine and chloramine are two ways most municipalities deal with bacteria in their water. Chlorine will off gas simply by leaving your water sit in an open container overnight, but not so for chloramine which is why many municipalities are switching over to it.

But both can be almost instantly dropped out of solution with a small amount of vitamin C which can be found in small tablets in the vitamin section of your grocery store.

So, if all you have is chlorine in your water just let it sit out exposed to open air 24 hours or so, or aerate it with an air stone if you need to use it sooner, but for chloramine you'd need to use the vit C.

Your municipality should have a water quality report available which will tell you which of the two (or both) that they use.

Hi @Azimuth , thanks for the info mate, I have the water report from my area, and I can’t see chloramine on it.
But I don’t really know what I’m like at lol
I will put it on here if you wouldn’t mind too much checking for me
And yeah I let my tap water sit for 3-4 days before I use it,
When I was first looking at getting the living soil, from the place where I purchased it, they had a video and the fella on there was saying that the chlorine was all I needed to worry about,
That’s obviously led me to where I am now, didn’t mention anything about amendments or teas,
Also, I did find ecothrive neutraliser, it sounds like good stuff but I don’t know ,
I will be putting more details of what’s going on over at Geespot when I get time.
here’s the report, and thank you mate

https://water-quality-api.prod.p.webapp.thameswater.co.uk/water-quality-api/Zone/NLE12A

 

[SmokingWings]

When I was first looking at getting the living soil, from the place where I purchased it, they had a video and the fella on there was saying that the chlorine was all I needed to worry about,

The chlorine in city water has been blown way out of proportion. The chlorine in city water supplies will kill a small percentage of the micro-organisms in a soil but most of the nay-sayers do not remind anyone that the population of this micro-life tends to return to normal levels within a day or so.

We should be asking ourselves if the chlorine in the city water was so terrible then why are there all those still green and growing residential and commercial lawns in the areas with treated city water? Or people with healthy houseplants, flowers on the front porch, or vegetable gardens out back even after watering with city water all summer?

I have had lawn cutting customers with in-ground or above-ground pools. Those pools have a much higher chlorine level than the average city water out of the tap. Why is the back lawn still alive even after the swimmers are dripping pool water all over the place? Again, under normal conditions and normal chlorine levels there does not appear to be a problem.

Rarely mentioned is that chlorine is one of the micro-nutrients considered essential for healthy plants.

Watering plants with chlorine city water is just another example of repeating rumors often enough that people start to believe them without getting the whole story.

Interesting article called "Does the Chlorine in Tap Water Harm Beneficial Bacteria?"....
Does the Chlorine in Tap Water Harm Beneficial Bacteria? – Alberta Urban Garden