- Thread starter
- #381
This may not matter when you have Hogdady's FAT Wallet.
no one ever mentions my fat wallet, just my fat head!
My First Grow
- Thread starter Hogdady
- Start date
no one ever mentions my fat wallet, just my fat head!
stoppin in buddy
- Thread starter
- #383
thx Pit! could you comment on my math for lighting?
H2OGanjaFarmr
New Member
the downside is the watts per sq foot. I have a 100 sq ft gro area. At 50 watts per sq ft, thats 5kw of light. 5kw is 125% of 4kw. So with 4kw I get 50 watts per sq ft with the mover.
IDK... I've never really looked at watts per sq ft... I've always seen watts as the measurement of use of energy... nothing helpfull to the plants... I may be wrong... IDK... anyone else have thoughts on this? I've looked at Lumens per sq. ft... Not trying to give you a hard time Hogdady I'm just wondering which way would really be better... cause that's alot of energy used and if you could grow 4lbs under 2400w instead of under 4000w that may help the wallet enough to afford the conversion bulbs... LOL... Not to mention your g/w ratio. I saw a 600w conversion online for like $84... I've always spent big money on the bulbs though so that's something I'm used to... LOL.
H2OGanjaFarmr
- Thread starter
- #385
IDK... I've never really looked at watts per sq ft... I've always seen watts as the measurement of use of energy... nothing helpfull to the plants... I may be wrong... IDK... anyone else have thoughts on this? I've looked at Lumens per sq. ft... Not trying to give you a hard time Hogdady I'm just wondering which way would really be better... cause that's alot of energy used and if you could grow 4lbs under 2400w instead of under 4000w that may help the wallet enough to afford the conversion bulbs... LOL... Not to mention your g/w ratio. I saw a 600w conversion online for like $84... I've always spent big money on the bulbs though so that's something I'm used to... LOL.
H2OGanjaFarmr
50 - 60 watts per foot is the rule of thumb that I am familiar with for determining the basic amount of light you need. Also, if you take the 2400w of 4-6's and multiply by 125%, you get 3kw. Using 1/2 gram per watt as a guide, that's only 1.5 kg of yield. The difference between 2400w and 4000w is 1600w. Over a 90 day gro period (30@18/6, 60@12/12), thats 1240 kwh. That will cost me $434 for a potential 1 kg of yield ($5k?). Sound about right?
H2OGanjaFarmr
New Member
50 - 60 watts per foot is the rule of thumb that I am familiar with for determining the basic amount of light you need. Also, if you take the 2400w of 4-6's and multiply by 125%, you get 3kw. Using 1/2 gram per watt as a guide, that's only 1.5 kg of yield. The difference between 2400w and 4000w is 1600w. Over a 90 day gro period (30@18/6, 60@12/12), thats 1240 kwh. That will cost me $434 for a potential 1 kg of yield ($5k?). Sound about right?
I don't know... cause to me watts is a measure of electricity it seems you're using it as a measure of yield/harvest. I can't see how if you used 600's instead of 1000's you would get 1kg less yield when the plants will be getting the same lumens cause you can put the light closer... I guess the only way to test it is for you to use 1000's and me to use 600's and start a comparative grow using the exact same everything and see how it turns out... LOL. I actually may be up for that in 4 to 6 months if you're interested... The tricky part would be genetics... we would have to figure out how to have the same genetics... we could even get the journals linked somehow by the 420 staff so they would somehow be together... I'm serious bro... Let's do it... What do you think?
H2OGanjaFarmr
- Thread starter
- #387
If you ask around here, a 1/2g per watt (of energy) is a decent yield. That's what I am using as a guide in my formula.
It's all in the math. 1/2g per watt (again)
Although that may be interesting to some, this is an income source to me and I am soley interested in that. If I need to spend $700 (the $434 figure was incorrect) to get back (potentially) $5k, then that's what I'm going to do. I actually was considering 4-6's until I went over the numbers enough to realize that 2400w is not enough......
H2OGanjaFarmr
New Member
I understand a 1/2g per watt is a decent yield... what I'm saying is the rate of growth isn't limited by wattage... it's limited by lumens. If you have the same lumens with less wattage then you've increased your g/w... I guess what it comes down to is I don't think the formula you are using is accurate... when just plugging in a 1/2g per watt may be accurate for total yield the way you are growing it may infact be inaccurate the way I am inquiring about... I mean no disrespect at all HD I'm just voicing my opinion and in the end it may come down to agree to disagree and still respect eachother as growers... As you and I both know... a grower set in his ways and who has made up his mind will not budge and that's what I think we've come to here... LOL... maybe we should invite others to bring their opinions in...
Although that may be interesting to some, this is an income source to me and I am soley interested in that. If I need to spend $700 (the $434 figure was incorrect) to get back (potentially) $5k, then that's what I'm going to do. I actually was considering 4-6's until I went over the numbers enough to realize that 2400w is not enough......
I understand... Although as I stated I think the formula may be incorrect... if there is a variable not accounted for then the product cant really be compared. I wasn't trying to sway you in the numbers... I guess I'm wondering if not this grow but next grow for you, we may be able to coordinate our grows somewhat... I can setup my room similar to yours... I already have the LR5 and I would get 600's while you would remain with 1000's which you already have and we could just see which works better... Ofcourse like I said the holdup would probably be genetics cause we would want to have the same genetics to be comparable... I hadn't planned on getting CO2 for acouple more grows but if we were seriously going to do this than I could get it and I am a hydro guy and I believe you're doing soil, correct me if I'm wrong, but again if we were seriously going to do this I would get the same soil and pots and I would pretty much do things how you're doing them but with 600's... I don't see you being too inconvienienced by it nor I cause we both have pretty much the same room it would just be coordination... I was thinking after you're done with you're GDP grow that you're starting now... Just a consideration bro... shouldn't put you out and we'd see which is better. If it came out where I was correct that $700 savings per grow could be great... and not to mention benefit the earth by saving energy...
H2OGanjaFarmr
aphoric
New Member
I'm definitely interested in this as I expand my operation. I am thinking some similar things about the relationship between watts and square footage and yield. I think all three would have to be used to come up with a formula, but I think you would have to make one of the figures a fixed number to compare the others easily.
When talking about square footage though, assuming the same reflector, since a 1000w light is going to be higher from the plants, it will cover more area if we raise it until the lumens are the same as the 600w. There are other factors, such as 600w lights putting out the most lumens per watt (J. Cervantes Indoor/Outdoor book), and if we are talking about using the same amount of watts (like 6x1000w or 10x600w), the 600's should produce more lumens.
Maybe a couple of fat heads can figure this stuff out, I have been thinking about it a lot while I do other things, but have not had the time to sit down and think about my strategy. Maybe when I get some dry weights here, I can more-easily decide what I am going to do next.
When talking about square footage though, assuming the same reflector, since a 1000w light is going to be higher from the plants, it will cover more area if we raise it until the lumens are the same as the 600w. There are other factors, such as 600w lights putting out the most lumens per watt (J. Cervantes Indoor/Outdoor book), and if we are talking about using the same amount of watts (like 6x1000w or 10x600w), the 600's should produce more lumens.
Maybe a couple of fat heads can figure this stuff out, I have been thinking about it a lot while I do other things, but have not had the time to sit down and think about my strategy. Maybe when I get some dry weights here, I can more-easily decide what I am going to do next.
H2OGanjaFarmr
New Member
The only thing I would add,
The price of a 600 mh bulbs (no such thing only Conversion) hard to find and very costly.
HiLux Gro 600 watt MH Conversion Bulb [600w] - $99.95 : neHydro.com, Hydroponics and Gardening Supplies
But the 1000 mh bulbs are cheaper by $60+
Plantmax 1000 watt MH Bulb [1000w] - $39.95 : neHydro.com, Hydroponics and Gardening Supplies
So that many be a saving of $240.00
This may not matter when you have Hogdady's FAT Wallet.
I was thinking... I know... those are dangerous words coming from me. If you got the Nextgen 400/600w ballasts you could use 400s MH for vegging which would negate the cost of the 600w convertable bulb. You could put the light real close to the plants to offset the loss in lumens... The plants are small at that point anyway so they don't need that much penetration of light. Wonder what the difference between plants under a 400w, 600w, and a 1000w would be during the veg stage... Man I wish I had all kinds of space and equipment to experiment with so I could come up with all of these answers... LOL.
Brings me to another point... Does anyone here have any Nextgen ballasts? I Had 4 before they were seized, currently fighting for my equipment back, and the first ones I got went out so I sent them back and got 4 new ones and they seemed to work great unfortunetly I don't know how they would still be working if they were still operating...
H2OGanjaFarmr
H2OGanjaFarmr
New Member
I know man... everything is pretty much trial and error that's why I want Hogdady and I to set up a comparative so we can figure this stuff out... I was thinking either 4 600's vs 4 1000's or even 4 600's and 2 400's vs 4 1000's... the reason for the extra 400's is cause we're using the LR5 and it would accomodate them... I'm trying to find a way to produce as much, while using less energy and saving money in the long run... but I don't want to give any on yield or quality just wattage... LOL. Hell if I had the equipment I would do a comparative on my own... I know he has the 1000w's and in acouple months I was gonna get 600's so I figured why not coordinate and do a comparative... really figure this out...
H2OGanjaFarmr
- Thread starter
- #392
I have come to a realization...and that is that I am starting to sound like I think I know what I am talking about. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although I have been growin for a couple of years, it wasn't until I recently decided to increase my knowledge base that I aggresively began pursuing all the info I could acquire. The formulas that I have use to calculate my lighting needs are, from what I understand, basic guidelines that growers have been using for some time. Much of my info has come from 420, but not all. So, while we could discuss this further, I have to cry "uncle", because I do not have the experiance or knowledge to continue. I feel comfortable that my numbers are sound, but they are only guidelines that I have chosen to use. 
I have come to a realization...and that is that I am starting to sound like I think I know what I am talking about. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although I have been growin for a couple of years, it wasn't until I recently decided to increase my knowledge base that I aggresively began pursuing all the info I could acquire. The formulas that I have use to calculate my lighting needs are, from what I understand, basic guidelines that growers have been using for some time. Much of my info has come from 420, but not all. So, while we could discuss this further, I have to cry "uncle", because I do not have the experiance or knowledge to continue. I feel comfortable that my numbers are sound, but they are only guidelines that I have chosen to use.
Bradah, you are doing a damn fine job. We are fortunate enough to have 420 as a stomping ground to throw ideas back and forth on. I use this site as a tool in my grows. The journaling process is part of growing ganj, thats if you choose to journal. Its not a neccessity, however it helps to take notes and post, as well as problems. So what you've drawn from it is great, and YOU DO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Just look at your grow. So what, if some info is out of your reach(for the moment), when it all comes down to it, your experience says everything for you HOG. Great grow, great harvest and a great friend.
- Thread starter
- #394
Bradah, you are doing a damn fine job. We are fortunate enough to have 420 as a stomping ground to throw ideas back and forth on. I use this site as a tool in my grows. The journaling process is part of growing ganj, thats if you choose to journal. Its not a neccessity, however it helps to take notes and post, as well as problems. So what you've drawn from it is great, and YOU DO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Just look at your grow. So what, if some info is out of your reach(for the moment), when it all comes down to it, your experience says everything for you HOG. Great grow, great harvest and a great friend.
It's people like you that make 420 the great place it is, Butch. Thank you!
H2OGanjaFarmr
New Member
I have come to a realization...and that is that I am starting to sound like I think I know what I am talking about. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although I have been growin for a couple of years, it wasn't until I recently decided to increase my knowledge base that I aggresively began pursuing all the info I could acquire. The formulas that I have use to calculate my lighting needs are, from what I understand, basic guidelines that growers have been using for some time. Much of my info has come from 420, but not all. So, while we could discuss this further, I have to cry "uncle", because I do not have the experiance or knowledge to continue. I feel comfortable that my numbers are sound, but they are only guidelines that I have chosen to use.
NO... NO... NO... Bro... I guess I may have come off too strong or something... I was in no way criticizing you, your thoughts or your ways... just saying I don't really agree with the formula... I have I guess different thoughts about lighting... I'm in no way implying either of us are wrong... I just want to figure out if I can decrease wattage and keep yield and quality high. I figured since you were gonna do 4 1000's and I was gonna do 4 600's maybe 4 600's and 2 400's we could coordinate so we could see how it works out. You're a great fellow grower bro... I didn't mean to make you feel like we were fighting or anything... I'm trying to work together with you with your current system and the system I plan to set up so I could see if the watt per square foot "formula" is accurate or if it would be more accurate as a lumen per square foot "formula". Heck I don't think it would really put you out too much we would just communicate more so I can shadow your grow with my lights... I ofcourse would have to figure out a way to get my hands on whatever genetics you plan on growing after these 40 GDP's to be most accurate. If you don't want to do it bro not a big deal I understand... Just something I thought would be cool, helpful, and a knowledge base for us and other growers on here.
H2OGanjaFarmr
- Thread starter
- #396
I certainly wouldn't mind sharing info as you have described. I didn't mean it to sound like was unwilling to do that. I have decided that I am going with 4-1000s and I will definately know soon if that was the right thing to do. And technically, lumens per sq foot is not what you should be concerned with, but PAR watts.
Proliferation
New Member
I think with that amount of space, plants, etc the 4-1K lights will do you much better than trying to get 2K worth of lighting to do it all. depending on your layout you may even be able to ditch the mover and use 4 stationary lights. In my experience rooms this size and being on the cusp of using light movers or not can be tricky. I've seen movers and two lights do the job of 4 in the same space and vice versa. I think ultimately with that many plants you will want the extra lights and the yield will be much greater
cheers man
cheers man
H2OGanjaFarmr
New Member
I certainly wouldn't mind sharing info as you have described. I didn't mean it to sound like was unwilling to do that. I have decided that I am going with 4-1000s and I will definately know soon if that was the right thing to do. And technically, lumens per sq foot is not what you should be concerned with, but PAR watts.
Cool... Cool bro... Can't wait till you start your next journal... when do you think you'll be up and running with those 4-1000's?
Now I just have to figure out a way to get the same Genetics as you're gonna be using not in this coming grow but the next one... but if you're still doing 40 GDP then I want those Gentetics as well... LOL.
H2OGanjaFarmr
- Thread starter
- #399
I had hoped that the 2-1ks would do the trick, but, as you said, I beleive that I tried to stretch it too far. I had considered 4-600s, but then I would have to buy all new shit, and I can get 2 more 1-ks from my partner for free, so 4-1ks it is. Thx for your comments.
- Thread starter
- #400
Cool... Cool bro... Can't wait till you start your next journal... when do you think you'll be up and running with those 4-1000's?
Now I just have to figure out a way to get the same Genetics as you're gonna be using not in this coming grow but the next one... but if you're still doing 40 GDP then I want those Gentetics as well... LOL.
H2OGanjaFarmr
looks like its gonna be 30 gdp's and 10 Hindu Kush. should be up and runnin soon.....not enuf frikkin hours in the day sometimes
