Mr Am4zin's Perpetual Journey
- Thread starter Amadeus Forzin
- Start date
420Amard
New Member
awesome work
I always wondered if the nutes from biobizz changed the ph of the water at all... (no ph meter either)
I always wondered if the nutes from biobizz changed the ph of the water at all... (no ph meter either)
420Brother
Well-Known Member
glad to see everything worked out with that pH issue there brother 
OrganicMan
Well-Known Member
Hey MRA 
Great work sorting your PH issue out you have got me thinking now 
I always adjust the ph of my mix I use bio silicon as an up and i rarely need to go down if i do i use citric acid which is organic and is already created in the root zone
I found this on another website so its not mine but its very interesting
"Citric Acid and Cannabis Horticulture:
Citric acid is a weak organic acid, it is a tricarboxylic acid, C6H8O7 . It is a natural preservative and used to make food taste sour, like 'sour patch kids' and soda. In biochemistry, citric acid is important as an intermediate in the citric acid cycle and therefore occurs in the metabolism of virtually all living things.
This post is all about citric acid.. The Cannabis growers of the world use citric acid to lower water pH for container gardens. Cannabis grown in soil-less organics prefers a soil(less) solution around 6.3 pH, and hydro is lower. A neutral water pH is 7.0, and my tap water is usually around 8.0 pH. So WHY do we use citric acid, and not the countless other acids, to lower our pH? The reasons are solid, let's investigate.
We need to begin by defining the important soil science terms that relate to soil-less organics.
Soil:
Layer of unconsolidated material found at the Earth's surface that has been influenced by the soil forming factors: climate, relief, parent material, time, and organisms. Soil normally consists of weathered mineral particles, dead and living organic matter, air space, and the soil solution.
Soil Solution:
Aqueous liquid found within a soil. This liquid normally contains ions released from mineral particles, organic matter or plant roots and leaves.
Soil Colloids:
Very small organic and inorganic particles found in a soil. Inorganic colloids are often clay particles. Soil colloids carry a negative electrical charge and are the primary sites for cation exchange. Soil colloids hold large quantities of elements and compounds which are used by plants for nutrition.
Ions:
An atom, molecule or compound that carries either a positive (cation) or negative (anion) electrical charge.
Cation Exchange Capacity:
The capacity of a soil to exchange cations with the soil solution. Often used as a measure of potential soil fertility.
Okay, now we have learned: what soil is, what a soil solution is, and how soil colloids play a key role in plant nutrition by holding elements and compounds.
BACK TO CITRIC ACID...
Citric acid is valuable as an additive in Cannabis horticulture for these reasons:
A. Citric acid (C6H8O7 ) bonds to Phosphorus anions (P-), making them soluble in the rhizosphere and soil solution.
Phosphorus anions (P-) are not easily mobile in the soil solution. The soil solution is a thin layer of water and microbes surrounding particles in media, soil-less and soil. Phosphorus anions bond with media particles, other elements, and organic matter. When bound P- is made insoluble and unavailable to plants roots. Citric acid bonds with P- and this keeps this needed nutrient in a form available to plant roots.
There are cations in the soil(less) solution. There are also cations in the cation exchange sites of media particles. Together these cations are held in equilibrium, but things can go wrong, especially in an unbalanced soil-less media. Managing this equilibrium is our goal.
By adding citric acid to our water and/or nutrient solution we release (solubilize) the Phosphorus anions. The roots can then use the ions in the soil solution and rhizosphere. The ability of roots to uptake all nutrients is directly dependent on pH of the solution, and the solubility of those nutrients. Citric acid (aka citrate) increases the bio-availability of Phosphorus anions (P-) present in the media.
B. Citric acid plays a role in the Krebs Cycle
Roots secrete all sorts of weak acids to free up N/P/K, Ca, Fe, and possibly other elements.
Root Exudates: (substances secreted by the roots).
Roots exude large amounts of citric acid into the grow media, this keeps the P- soluble in the rhizosphere and soil solution. This citric acid, and other acid root exudates , mineralize P- from organic matter like soft rock phosphate or bat guano"
Just thought it was an interesting read hope all is well in the land of amazement 
Great work sorting your PH issue out you have got me thinking now I always adjust the ph of my mix I use bio silicon as an up and i rarely need to go down if i do i use citric acid which is organic and is already created in the root zone I found this on another website so its not mine but its very interesting
"Citric Acid and Cannabis Horticulture:
Citric acid is a weak organic acid, it is a tricarboxylic acid, C6H8O7 . It is a natural preservative and used to make food taste sour, like 'sour patch kids' and soda. In biochemistry, citric acid is important as an intermediate in the citric acid cycle and therefore occurs in the metabolism of virtually all living things.
This post is all about citric acid.. The Cannabis growers of the world use citric acid to lower water pH for container gardens. Cannabis grown in soil-less organics prefers a soil(less) solution around 6.3 pH, and hydro is lower. A neutral water pH is 7.0, and my tap water is usually around 8.0 pH. So WHY do we use citric acid, and not the countless other acids, to lower our pH? The reasons are solid, let's investigate.
We need to begin by defining the important soil science terms that relate to soil-less organics.
Soil:
Layer of unconsolidated material found at the Earth's surface that has been influenced by the soil forming factors: climate, relief, parent material, time, and organisms. Soil normally consists of weathered mineral particles, dead and living organic matter, air space, and the soil solution.
Soil Solution:
Aqueous liquid found within a soil. This liquid normally contains ions released from mineral particles, organic matter or plant roots and leaves.
Soil Colloids:
Very small organic and inorganic particles found in a soil. Inorganic colloids are often clay particles. Soil colloids carry a negative electrical charge and are the primary sites for cation exchange. Soil colloids hold large quantities of elements and compounds which are used by plants for nutrition.
Ions:
An atom, molecule or compound that carries either a positive (cation) or negative (anion) electrical charge.
Cation Exchange Capacity:
The capacity of a soil to exchange cations with the soil solution. Often used as a measure of potential soil fertility.
Okay, now we have learned: what soil is, what a soil solution is, and how soil colloids play a key role in plant nutrition by holding elements and compounds.
BACK TO CITRIC ACID...
Citric acid is valuable as an additive in Cannabis horticulture for these reasons:
A. Citric acid (C6H8O7 ) bonds to Phosphorus anions (P-), making them soluble in the rhizosphere and soil solution.
Phosphorus anions (P-) are not easily mobile in the soil solution. The soil solution is a thin layer of water and microbes surrounding particles in media, soil-less and soil. Phosphorus anions bond with media particles, other elements, and organic matter. When bound P- is made insoluble and unavailable to plants roots. Citric acid bonds with P- and this keeps this needed nutrient in a form available to plant roots.
There are cations in the soil(less) solution. There are also cations in the cation exchange sites of media particles. Together these cations are held in equilibrium, but things can go wrong, especially in an unbalanced soil-less media. Managing this equilibrium is our goal.
By adding citric acid to our water and/or nutrient solution we release (solubilize) the Phosphorus anions. The roots can then use the ions in the soil solution and rhizosphere. The ability of roots to uptake all nutrients is directly dependent on pH of the solution, and the solubility of those nutrients. Citric acid (aka citrate) increases the bio-availability of Phosphorus anions (P-) present in the media.
B. Citric acid plays a role in the Krebs Cycle
Roots secrete all sorts of weak acids to free up N/P/K, Ca, Fe, and possibly other elements.
Root Exudates: (substances secreted by the roots).
Roots exude large amounts of citric acid into the grow media, this keeps the P- soluble in the rhizosphere and soil solution. This citric acid, and other acid root exudates , mineralize P- from organic matter like soft rock phosphate or bat guano"
Just thought it was an interesting read
hope all is well in the land of amazement 
Mello136
Well-Known Member
Morning Mr.A, how's the garden?
- Thread starter
- #787
good day my good friend awesome work
glad I could help out. The grow formula is quite acidic, dropping ph to 5.5ish. Bloom drops it to about 6.5. When mixed together it's about 5.9. Didn't check the differences with calmag.glad to see everything worked out with that pH issue there brother
Thanks brother
Full to bursting with very healthy looking and very fast growing flowers. I'll putt them out for more pics later.
- Thread starter
- #788
Hey MRA
Just thought it was an interesting read
Thankyou for the read, it made my head hurt for a little while but I got it in there eventually. Filed away under "you will need this when you build your own soil"
I'm going to blog that post if you don't mind. And I hit you with reps too.
Thanks again
OrganicMan
Well-Known Member
No worries my man spread the knowledge
spread the knowledge - Thread starter
- #790
It's Monday folks so I thought id do a little update on whats happening with my grow.
I have a problem, well 2 problems, 2 big problems and there names are Pineapple Express and Northern Lights.
They don't seem to want to stop growing. The NL is at least showing me some wonderful pre flowers and pistels, the PE, on the other hand, shows me nothing but more and more growth. All the while my poor little Dark Devil is stuck in the corner fighting for a glimpse of the light. I can't train her down as that would starve her of even more light.
My friend has agreed to take the DD when his setup arrives (hopefully its this week) but I may chuck the NL his way if the PE doesn't show me pistels, and soon. I dropped my light hours a few days ago to a 15/9 and in a couple of days I'm gonna drop it again to 12/12 to try and induce something.
On a positive note, they are all super healthy
Anyway, here are some pics
PE day 41
NL day 35
Remember that broken branch that I put a splint on?
It never faulted, kept growing well with no sign of a problem.
DD day 26
Thanks for popping in today my friends. I, be seeing you all around
I have a problem, well 2 problems, 2 big problems and there names are Pineapple Express and Northern Lights.
They don't seem to want to stop growing. The NL is at least showing me some wonderful pre flowers and pistels, the PE, on the other hand, shows me nothing but more and more growth. All the while my poor little Dark Devil is stuck in the corner fighting for a glimpse of the light. I can't train her down as that would starve her of even more light.
My friend has agreed to take the DD when his setup arrives (hopefully its this week) but I may chuck the NL his way if the PE doesn't show me pistels, and soon. I dropped my light hours a few days ago to a 15/9 and in a couple of days I'm gonna drop it again to 12/12 to try and induce something.
On a positive note, they are all super healthy
Anyway, here are some pics
PE day 41
NL day 35
Remember that broken branch that I put a splint on?
It never faulted, kept growing well with no sign of a problem.
DD day 26
Thanks for popping in today my friends. I, be seeing you all around
Maybe throw the PE in the dark for a whole day? Just to get the Florigen levels kicking. Btw how did I miss subbing this thread? But it's perpetual so that means I was always here!
- Thread starter
- #792
Not a bad idea that shigg 
I'll give the logistics some thought and see what I can come up with.
I'll give the logistics some thought and see what I can come up with. 
The Dealer
Well-Known Member
Can you sit the DD ontop of something to bring it up to level with the other 2?
MagicJim
Creme de la Creme Photos: Sept 2016
Yes....plants look healthy and color is good. with the pH
with the pH
DankWolf907
New Member
Lookin good
Particularly like PEs twist!
Particularly like PEs twist!
- Thread starter
- #796
The simplest things slip your mind. It's done
Yes....plants look healthy and color is good.
Kriaze
Well-Known Member
Looking good MrA, all looks like it's going swimmingly over there. I'd offer to help out with space if needed, but unless you're prepared to travel a lot they would soon end up with much more serious problems than growing well All the best and have a fantastic day
All the best and have a fantastic day - Thread starter
- #798
Looking good MrA, all looks like it's going swimmingly over there. I'd offer to help out with space if needed, but unless you're prepared to travel a lot they would soon end up with much more serious problems than growing well
The thought did cross my mind of asking you but then I considered the 150 mile round trip. Thanks my man
Congratz on the MOTM and well deserved I see you chopped the ark devil cant wait to hear the smoke reports on her
I have finally put mine in water today I had a few set backs the last couple of days
The Pineapple looks so strong they all look great mate have a brilliant ay as
MOTM
and well deserved I see you chopped the ark devil cant wait to hear the smoke reports on herI have finally put mine in water today I had a few set backs the last couple of days
The Pineapple looks so strong they all look great mate have a brilliant ay as
MOTM 
I had to leave a note of congratulations on your grow journal. Relish this. Your connection to the community just went much deeper than you thought possible. Enjoy every dedicated moment. I am bursting with pride. 