Making Your Own Nutrient Concentrates

farside05 said:
I could do a side by side to compare 6g of Mega Crop to the proposed blend. Would need to source the Bud Explosion since I already have the MC and Orchidgain.
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IMO, you'd be better served to purchase all of the base ingredients used to make up these other branded formulations, than you'd have total freedom to emulate whatever recipe you want, and if it doesn't work out as planned, you could emulate something else or move the numbers how ever you want. Locking yourself into a branded blend really limits what is possible with those products, not to mention purchasing salt is multitudes cheaper, you know, I'm sure the cost for potassium silicate is cheaper than a gallon of Pro-Tekt.
 
Skybound said:
IMO, you'd be better served to purchase all of the base ingredients used to make up these other branded formulations, than you'd have total freedom to emulate whatever recipe you want, and if it doesn't work out as planned, you could emulate something else or move the numbers how ever you want. Locking yourself into a branded blend really limits what is possible with those products, not to mention purchasing salt is multitudes cheaper, you know, I'm sure the cost for potassium silicate is cheaper than a gallon of Pro-Tekt.
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The glitchy nature of Hydro Buddy drives me insane. I've installed and deleted it at least 3 times. Until someone makes a better program (doubtful given how long HB has been around and no one has done it yet), I can't fathom going all the way down the rabbit hole. For simple things like Potassium Silicate where I don't have to do anything but figure the dilution rate to make Pro-Tekt (aka Faux-Tekt), yes it's cheaper by 3 to 4 times. I take advantage of that.
 
farside05 said:
The glitchy nature of Hydro Buddy drives me insane. I've installed and deleted it at least 3 times. Until someone makes a better program (doubtful given how long HB has been around and no one has done it yet), I can't fathom going all the way down the rabbit hole. For simple things like Potassium Silicate where I don't have to do anything but figure the dilution rate to make Pro-Tekt (aka Faux-Tekt), yes it's cheaper by 3 to 4 times. I take advantage of that.
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HB is it's own topic, but you could still use your spreadsheet as long as the molar math is correctly programmed into it. I personally don't know molar math and I fall asleep every time I try to learn it, plus I know HB well enough that the quirks it has no longer bothers me, but the designer (Daniel Fernandez) is working to make HB better with future releases. He even made a new blog entry about it a few weeks ago. He also now has his own YouTube channel FWTW. But yeah, you can program all your salts into your spread sheet and work it like that. I assume the spread sheet allows you to target the elements, and it will tell you the weight needed from each salt being considered to achieve those targets? If yes, you're good to go. If not, I'm happy to help you get through HB's quirks, @Weaselcracker would also help as he has since gotten over that hump.
 
Skybound said:
I assume the spread sheet allows you to target the elements, and it will tell you the weight needed from each salt being considered to achieve those targets?
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It's not quite that advanced. You can put in the known N-P-K of a fertilizer from the guaranteed analysis and it will tell you the resulting ppm from each element. At least that's one of the many tabs. You can do that for up to 5 products to see the combined results of using different additives. I could possibly build it out further to have it function more like you say if I were inclined. I do most of my own auto repair, home repairs etc whereas a lot of people farm that out because they either can't, don't know how, or don't care to. I guess me blending existing products is along those same lines.

My original post was really more to get your feedback on the resulting numbers, not so much on how I got there. Thoughts?
 
farside05 said:
My original post was really more to get your feedback on the resulting numbers, not so much in how I got there. Thoughts?
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I liked the Megacrop numbers, but I can't really comprehend all of the other forumlations because there is only one single column for ppm and that was Megacrop's ppm. If tho all of the formulations are on par with one another, I predict success. I think NH4 should be lower and Mg should be higher, but I'm eager to see the results if you do run that. I long suspected NH4 can be higher than 5%, but when I tried 10% of total N to be NH4, I had problems. Also, I'm seeing sort of a fad of people running higher Mg. I keep mine at less than half of Cal in ratio, but the fad is up near 60% or higher, maybe that's only for Sativa leaners though? Whatever the case, I'm glad people are starting to communicate in elemental ppm as that is a language that transcends all of the formulations.
 
farside05 said:
Comparison.jpg

Comparison.jpg

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To bring the image to the current page, upon looking at it again, I see I was less confused than I am now, lol. Now I see the P is up near 70ppm which I know is not like you, but Megacrop is also in a separate column so my previous assessment was way off and I need to stare at it some more before giving my opinion.
 
The Total PPM Per Element column, the far right of the main table, is the proposed mix. All that crap to the left is just part of the formula to compute that column. The stand alone column for Mega Crop alone is just there for comparison purposes.
 
Okay, after looking again, my previous comments apply to the 6G Megacrop in it's own column. Those numbers are closest to what I'm running now and obviously has my highest confidence. The fist column of elemental ppm, K is super high, P is higher than I've ever tried, NH4 looks roughly higher than Megacrop's 5% ratio (that I also use), but I'm loving that 100ppm of sulfur. That will make for some super sweet tasting smoke.
 
Skybound said:
Okay, after looking again, my previous comments apply to the 6G Megacrop in it's own column. Those numbers are closest to what I'm running now and obviously has my highest confidence. The fist column of elemental ppm, K is super high, P is higher than I've ever tried, NH4 looks roughly higher than Megacrop's 5% ratio (that I also use), but I'm loving that 100ppm of sulfur. That will make for some super sweet tasting smoke.
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An increase in S was part of the goal. Used the Orchidgain as a base because it's very low P and I was adding a P K and S booster. The K number surpassed my goal of 280ish. Still not all the way out on the limb that is MC plus their Bud Explosion. That combo comes in like 380ppm K and it's my hypothesis that is why many that have traveled that road have fried their plants.
 
farside05 said:
An increase in S was part of the goal. Used the Orchidgain as a base because it's very low P and I was adding a P K and S booster. The K number surpassed my goal of 280ish. Still not all the way out on the limb that is MC plus their Bud Explosion. That combo comes in like 380ppm K and it's my hypothesis that is why many that have traveled that road have fried their plants.
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Did you already start that routine?
 
Skybound said:
Did you already start that routine?
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No, was just crunching numbers while bored at work. Looking some more, Greenleaf's Sweet Candy product along with Orchidgain might get me closer to my hypothetical goal (MC type numbers plus 50ppm more S and 60ppm more K). I'll play with that later. Need to get my ass to bed.
 
farside05 said:
No, was just crunching numbers while bored at work. Looking some more, Greenleaf's Sweet Candy product along with Orchidgain might get me closer to my hypothetical goal (MC type numbers plus 50ppm more S and 60ppm more K). I'll play with that later. Need to get my ass to bed.
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What are the numbers you want to achieve exactly? I wonder if I can achieve them with just 8 salts.
 
FWIW these are my latest targets
And so far it’s looking a lot more promising than the last few mixes have.

No3 - 117
NH4 - 5
P - 56
K - 224
Mg - 60
Ca - 106
However, at this calcium level I am pretty sure I’m starting to see a calcium deficiency on the lower leaves. I will probably know for sure by tonight, or in the next few days anyway. If so I will bump the calcium up just a tiny bit and hope everything else doesn’t go wacky.
 
Calcium D is worse than K or Mg D, so I'd rather block those in favor of getting more cal in because fixing the Ca D is between hard and impossible.
 
I tweaked my ferts a tad by nudging the K up in bloom from 215 to 230. My approach for about the past 6 months was to get calcium where gives me a good result and leave it there while nudging all of the other elements around it. Mag I'm trying a little more than normal too, but otherwise I've just been throttling the NPK slightly and now my N is about subsided to a nice moderate range, P is also lower than I would have imagined would be ideal, yet here I am, and now K is probably the only thing left to fuck with. The buds are fattening regardless, so I will stay here at 230 and if the branches don't turn into wet noddles and the minor leaf burning continues, I'll keep upping it by 10 ppm and testing for about a week.

The fugly plant is that fussy ass Triple Cheese that went into a nitrogen hissy fit about week 6 and went yellow FAST. There were signs of N tox prior, hence why she's so damn short, but w/e, everyone else likes the feed so fuck her. Her ellow turned to a trippy almost white and now she has signs of P def or cold temps from the purpling of the leaves. If nothing else, she's fun to look at and makes a nice center piece for the next 2 days, lol.

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trippy.jpg
 
Weaselcracker said:
I'm starting to see a calcium deficiency on the lower leaves. I will probably know for sure by tonight, or in the next few days anyway. If so I will bump the calcium up just a tiny bit and hope everything else doesn’t go wacky.
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Calcium is immobile and normally shows on the top/new growth 1st.

I will say that I have run into a bit of an anomaly I haven't been able to explain yet. In the past I have always supplemented Cal-Mag (and Silica) on top of Mega Crop. MC on its own, at a 6g rate, has 117ppm of Ca. I would add 5ml of Cal-Mag that would juice that number up to 172ppm. Now for the unexplained part. I would still see an occasional Cal-Mag spot when supplementing Cal-Mag. Last 2 grows I have not supplemented Cal-Mag (or Silica for that matter) and I have seen no spots. Either I have 8 plants that want less Ca than most of my plants in the past, or there is some other symbiotic relationship going on.
 
To answer your earlier question @Skybound

Guess if I had a mix I'd like to try, it would look something like this.

N = 150 *(105 being Nitrate, 45 being Amonical)
P = 60
K = 280
Ca = 120
Mg = 40
S = 100

*The Nitrate and Amonical blend of N is specific to my 150ppm tap water. I've used MC with nearly all Nitrate with no issues, but supposedly using 30% Amonical for 150ppm water is better for the pH stability of your growing medium.

Edit - Since mainly my tweaks are just to K and S over stock Mega Crop, I did a little search. Potassium Sulfate is 50% K2O and 17.6% S. By adding .5g of Potassium Sulfate to 6g of Mega Crop I'd end up at my proposed mix (other than the types of Nitrogen). 5lbs of Potassium Sulfate is $15. At .5g a gallon useage rate, that's a lifetime supply. Might have to buy some salt for an experiment.

Edit to the Edit... I guess I already have some Potassium Sulfate in a watered down jug, it's called Terpinator. Since it's diluted, it takes 6.25ml of Terpinator to equal .5g of powder. I'm sitting on close to 5gal of the stuff from POTM prize packs. Maybe I should just do that, it's free.
 
shit. True. I knew there was something wrong with what I said.
I should know better than to try to pin names on my deficiencies anyway. I’ve probably got the whole alphabet.
The newest flowering plant- the one I‘m keeping the closest eye on, had some damage from previous bad mixes which makes it harder to gauge. I checked it all over tonight and whatever the rusty spots are, if they’re progressing at all, it’s not by very much. So, still happy about the latest mix overall. But admittedly my standards are pretty low right now so ‘not completely fucked’ is the new ‘good‘.
 
Was going back over the Tissue Sample Results that AN did years ago. Looking at the greatest demand, be it in veg or bloom, I put together these guidelines:

The need for K is slightly higher than the need for N.

The need for K is about 4-4.5x the need for P.

The need for Mg is about half the need for P.

The need for Mg and S are about equal.

The need for Ca is about 1/2 the need for K.

My personal experience is that a mature or flowering plant needs between 150-175ppm of N. Base everything else around that.

Stock MC checks a lot of those boxes. If anything a bit extra K, Mg, and S. Huh, that sounds like a "bloom booster" already built in. Maybe I'll just leave well enough alone. They are aweful pretty and green.
 
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